? about powers that grant natural atks

[lonewulf]

Im playing a Psychic Warrior in an upcoming campaign and I have a question about using natural attack powers with a full-attack.

The question is about Claws of the Beast/Bite of the Wolf/Tail of the Dragon...the powers cover being Secondary Attacks but if you use all 3 wouldn't one be a Tertiary Attack? Are there even rules for Tertiary Attacks? Or would I have to use Claws/Bite or Claws/Tail and NOT all 3?

How would this work? Thanks in advance And sorry if it is a dumb question.

[Rubik]

The only thing I can think of that covers "tertiary attack" is a natural weapon used with the (Improved) Rapidstrike feat. No matter how many natural attacks you have, all of the ones that aren't primary are treated as secondary.

[lonewulf]

Thank you kind person. Another question to whoevet can answer....

If i take the Claws/Bite/Tail powers do I qualify for Multi-Attack feat? Also, as an Elan, would I qualify for Rapid Strike?

If yes to those, are there any ruled citations to back that up? DM may require definitive proof before allowing.

[Rubik]

Thank you kind person. Another question to whoevet can answer....

If i take the Claws/Bite/Tail powers do I qualify for Multi-Attack feat? Also, as an Elan, would I qualify for Rapid Strike?

If yes to those, are there any ruled citations to back that up? DM may require definitive proof before allowing.I recall reading that a druid qualifies for feats such as Multiattack due to Wild Shape, but he can only utilize the feat when he qualifies, much like a fighter with Str 11 qualifies for Power Attack so long as he has his +2 Str item. The same should apply for someone with those powers.

And yes, elan qualify for Rapidstrike due to their type being Aberration. This requires no citations.

[lonewulf]

Thank you again for replying. My google-fu is letting me down for rules citations. It isn't just the Aberration type that had me asking about Rapid Strike. It also requires "a pair of natural weapons" so a ruling would likely go hand-in-hand with the ruling for Multiattack.

[Rubik]

Thank you again for replying. My google-fu is letting me down for rules citations. It isn't just the Aberration type that had me asking about Rapid Strike. It also requires "a pair of natural weapons" so a ruling would likely go hand-in-hand with the ruling for Multiattack.Well, Claws of the Beast definitely gives you a pair of those; specifically, claws.

[KingSmitty]

If i take the Claws/Bite/Tail powers do I qualify for Multi-Attack feat?

I don't believe there's a direct quote written down, but I wouldn't allow it personally because those natural attacks are not permanent, but from a spell effect. They aren't at will powers because they're at minimum, a swift action activation.

On the other hand, technically you have 3 natural attacks when you use them all, so I can see how only having use of it when under the effect of the powers.

under "Prerequisites" in the PHB it makes no mention of this, but it does say "a character can't use a feat if she or he has lost a prerequisite."

"level advancement" pg 58 under EXPERIENCE AND LEVELS says "The character must meet any prerequisites for the feat in order to select it"

there's no mention of duration effects NOT allowing you to qualify, so you can argue that way

[lonewulf]

Well, Claws of the Beast definitely gives you a pair of those; specifically, claws.

Lol, yes, but i was looking for a ruling based on my Claws/bite/tail not actually being a part of me. They are just a 'psychic manifestation'. If i could find a citation supporting the Druid qualifying that would be good enough.

[Andezzar]

I don't believe there's a direct quote written down, but I wouldn't allow it personally because those natural attacks are not permanent, but from a spell effect. They aren't at will powers because they're at minimum, a swift action activation.

On the other hand, technically you have 3 natural attacks when you use them all, so I can see how only having use of it when under the effect of the powers.

under "Prerequisites" in the PHB it makes no mention of this, but it does say "a character can't use a feat if she or he has lost a prerequisite."

"level advancement" pg 58 under EXPERIENCE AND LEVELS says "The character must meet any prerequisites for the feat in order to select it"

there's no mention of duration effects NOT allowing you to qualify, so you can argue that wayIt really is irrelevant whether a character temporarily or permanently qualifies for a feat. However he must do so exactly at the moment when the DM awards the XPs. There is no way to delay leveling up (except crafting). so it is really easy for the DM to simply give out XPs when the power is not active, unless the character can have he qualifying power up 24/7.

[lonewulf]

Actually, in our games we dont level as soon as we get the XP....we level at the next rest (short or long) after getting the XP. So as long as im careful with my point spending i can ensure that my nat atks are active when leveling so that part wouldnt be a problem.

[KingSmitty]

It really is irrelevant whether a character temporarily or permanently qualifies for a feat. However he must do so exactly at the moment when the DM awards the XPs. There is no way to delay leveling up (except crafting). so it is really easy for the DM to simply give out XPs when the power is not active, unless the character can have he qualifying power up 24/7.

I would allow a continuous item to provide a prerequisite but never allow someone to cast a spell before they start writing on their sheet. You either qualify or you dont. If that were the case theres so much room for abuse with other feats its silly.

[Chronos]

Remember, even if you have a feat, you still only gain its benefits while you have its prerequisites. That cuts down on most of the worst abuses.