Looking for the higher level 'scary' monsters

[bloodystone2]

As title but let me explain.

Short story: I'm looking for monsters that are high leveled for my mid - high leveled players. Each one of them recently soloed a dragon of various kinds and they want a new challenge that they haven't done much of. They're sick of the standard demons and intelligent races with class levels.

Long story: I've got lots of players who started mid level and are approaching higher levels. I'm both too annoyed and too lazy to make character after character sheet of fodder. They want big solo bosses rather than the 'fight another diverse adventuring party as your boss' trope I've been going with. I've made player favorites (such as the Iron Gentlemen Scorpion). My characters also have a lot of homebrew stuff that makes them really powerful (at the cost of their soul [which each of them did]).

So heres the rules. You rather post

What monster type you like, why, and give an example

What specific specific monster you like, why, and how do you like using them story wise.

[Yael]

It really depends on the exact level, because when a party gets strong enough, a good old Illithid Sorcerer is good enough plotwise and in-statblock to face any kind of party. Think of aberrations, they are diverse and any kind of 'boss'-like monster is good enough (think of a Tsochari controlling a bigger thing, or an Aboleth doing their aboletish stuff...)

[Uncle Pine]

On the same vein, beholders get really scary once you realize that they can actually fire all their eye rays (3 of which are save-or-die and 3 of which are save-or-suck) as a free action each round. Screw their antimagic eye, cut it off, add beholder mage levels if CR 13 is too low, change a couple of feats for things like Ability Focus (eye rays) and buy a cloak of charisma to boost DC.

Knowing the players' levels would be really helpful, though.

EDIT: Would you also mind to specify what kind of dragons each player soloed? I may be wrong, but maybe the players managed to kill them so easily because you optimized each dragon's resources less than expected against (higly) optimized characters.

[Surpriser]

The thing is: The "single solo boss" is very hard to pull of in an appropriate way (read: challenging, but not instantly lethal for at least one party member).

No matter what you do (apart from a few very special corner cases), the boss will always have one set of actions in the same time that the PCs have 4 (or more, depending on party size and optimization).
So, if you want to keep it "balanced" you need to either ensure that only 1/4 of all PC actions are actually meaningful (which is boring) or each of the bosses actions are 4 times as powerful (which makes it deadly for the PC on the receiving end)

Now, this is of course an exaggeration, but the general problem remains.
You can avoid this with a simple trick: Give the big solo boss a number of weak but still useful minions. These can be meatshields, summoners, healers, buffers, controllers. This evens out the playing field in terms of actions without making your boss too weak or too lethal.

[Seto]

I like hydras. Give them lots of heads, it helps with the action economy. Stack a few templates if they're too low a CR. Plus, they're both iconic and interesting to fight. (if necessary give them good SR and/or SlAs and say a Wizard did it)

[jiriku]

Monster Manual 5 can be a great resource for you. Read the entries on Dalmosh, the garngrath, the spirrax, and the Wild Hunt. All are excellent boss encounters of CR 17+ that take multiple actions, have AoE or reactive attacks, utilize unusual, colorful combat tactics, and lock down PCs with debilitating effects that are not instantly lethal. The garngrath and spirrax are non-unique monsters and have advancement rules if you need them to be even more powerful.

[Vinyl Scratch]

Aboleths.

An Aboleth can have pretty much anything as a minion, thanks to mind control shenanigans. Heck, have the whole village be under control. In addition, they are capable of being powerful spellcasters or psions as needed.

The real challenge is that if the characters want to fight the aboleth, they must do it on its terms, and fight underwater.

For additional threat, toss in mind flayers as a third party. Aboleths are afraid of mind flayers, as they are the only thing aboleths can't remember existing. Perhaps the aboleth was on the offensive against a group of mind flayers before the players arrive on the scene. The mind flayers happen to be striking back just as the players do, and that's how you rope them in as well.

[Ferronach]

I second Beholder. They are intelligent, weird/creepy looking, can decimate an unprepared party and can fly!

To make the beholder even crueller, make it a ghost for incorporeality and other fun stuff.

Put it in a crazy mirror house like those found in carnivals/circuses except this place is full of tunnels, vertical shafts and hidden passages. The party will be smashing mirrors galore while the beholder snipes them off one at a time from above (there are mirrors specially placed so it looks like the beholder is on the same floor/level as the party but is really higher up etc).
Place a bunch of cool traps all over the place. They don't have to be save or die, but need to inconvenience the players, slow them down, and hopefully split them up.

Make it an elder beholder (I think that is what they are called) so it can use all of its eyes.
Give it a few levels of some sort of caster so it can maximize/enhance its eye attacks.

[General Sajaru]

Any of the monsters/races from Lords of Madness work very well against higher level parties, as they can be made particularly interesting/memorable/nasty. I also recommend looking in Elder Evils.

[PraxisVetli]

I like hydras. Give them lots of heads, it helps with the action economy. Stack a few templates if they're too low a CR. Plus, they're both iconic and interesting to fight. (if necessary give them good SR and/or SlAs and say a Wizard did it)

+1 for hydras.
Also. Swarmshifting boneclaws with swordsage/telflammar level get funky.


Also.
I personally adore bebiliths

[BladeofObliviom]

I could just echo the Beholder; it's a classic monster for a reason. But people have said that already so I'll add one to the mix.



If you don't mind getting deeply personal with your players, the Sorrowsworn Demon from MM3 makes a deeply disturbing foe in the hands of a skilled DM. Its whole deal is spreading misery, depression, and loss.

Mechanically, it has an instantaneous detect thoughts once per round as a free action, a number of SLAs at CL 20 including nondetection and invisibility (making it very good at ambushing an unwary party), telepathy, and an aura that gives a penalty on all checks to enemies (with a will save to ignore for now but no 24-hour immunity clause; technically it can turn it on and off as a free action so by RAW it could just switch it on and off until everyone fails a save but that's bad so don't do that). That same aura also requires a 20 plus SL concentration check to cast anything, which isn't likely to stop a full caster at higher levels but can give gish-types and UMD-using folks a hard time.

(It's worth noting that its suggested round-by-round tactics openly recommend they use their Feeblemind SLA on the party's main caster as an opening move. Which is just mean, but makes sense.)

On top of all this, it gets an ability called Whispers of Loss that it can use once per round as a free action that applies a disabling debuff like stun, daze, or confuse to a single character. It has a save, but hey, it's a free action.


If your players are well-optimized, I highly recommend swapping out some of its feats for more useful stuff though. Cleave and Great Cleave are highly unlikely to be relevant, for example. (It's supposedly CR 17, but I think that's overestimating it just a tad in anything above very low-op.)



Overall, though, it's a cool enemy. It fights not with flashy magic or raw violence, but by undermining its foes' resolve until it can just walk up and skewer them unopposed. It requires a good DM to really make it work; ideally, the players are just as horrified by the things it says as the characters are.



EDIT: Some more fun thoughts. While the creature description doesn't mention it, Fear would be an excellent way to augment its capabilities, and the penalty applied by the Shaken status in concert with its other abilities can be quite an edge. Plus it has a fairly high intimidate modifier (+28 out of the box) and qualifies for things like Never Outnumbered and Imperious Command if you're willing to do a little tweaking. Alternately, they're smart and likely to bring a few underlings which can keep the PCs tied up. Or soften them up while it invisibly starts doing its thing. (Most of its abilities do not count as attacks as far as Invisibility is concerned; if you have it hide among other enemies, the PCs may be completely unaware of what's going on for a round or two.)

And of course, if for whatever reason you want to make your PCs have trouble sleeping at night, it has Plane Shift and Greater Teleport to escape with, to terrorize them another day. Demons are spiteful like that.

[Ferronach]

If you don't mind getting deeply personal with your players, the Sorrowsworn Demon from MM3 makes a deeply disturbing foe in the hands of a skilled DM. It's whole deal is spreading misery, depression, and loss.
...

The player in me just cried a little but the DM in me is already plotting and planning! Muahahhaa this sounds like a really good encounter to have rolled up and carefully tucked away for when the party start to misbehave or get cocky...

[KingSmitty]

dread wraiths are scary as hell. not only can they look like the shadows on your wall, they can come out of the ground constitution drain you, and then sink away.


G-G-G-GHOSTS!!

[Nibbens]

Any Huge to gargantuan creature with a Burrow Speed, quickened Silent Image, and the Vital Strike feat string, (and possibly a melee and a ranged attack).

Players turn: Players are standing on ground, nothing's there that they see. Within reach of them (under the ground) is X monster.

Enemy turn: Monster pops his head up through the earth - Bites for a Greater Improved Vital Strike Power Attack. Retracts his head under the earth again (not a move action therefore no attacks of opportunity even if your players can see and strike through the dirt).

Player's Turn: Nothing's there to fight back. Player's will probably hold actions to strike the next time they see the head.

Enemy turn: Head comes up from under the sand - while an quickened silent image illusion of the same simultaneously pops up. The real one takes a bite of the PC, and down goes the head.

Player turn: Hold actions/healing on the bitten PC.

Enemy turn: Head pops up some distance away and ranged attacks them (Breath weapon/Gaze attack/Thrown whatever) and goes back down again.

Subsequent turns: Repeat shenanigans (alternating ranged and melee attacks) until someone poops themselves.

The scariest thing in the world is intelligence. If the enemy is intelligent - you already have the upper hand.

[Qwertystop]

Teratomorpphs and that wossname construct with 9th-level SLAs at CR9 are "fun".

[Red Fel]

So heres the rules. You rather post

What monster type you like, why, and give an example

What specific specific monster you like, why, and how do you like using them story wise.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Tucker's Kobolds (http://tuckerskobolds.com/) yet. You say you need a scary, high-level encounter for players who are bored with the usual fare? Read the relevant quote.


Many high-level characters have little to do because they're not challenged. They yawn at tarrasques and must be forcibly kept awake when a lich appears. The DMs involved don't know what to do, so they stop dealing with the problem and the characters go into Character Limbo. Getting to high level is hard, but doing anything once you get there is worse.

One of the key problems in adventure design lies in creating opponents who can challenge powerful characters. Singular monsters like tarrasques and liches are easy to gang up on; the party can concentrate its firepower on the target until the target falls down dead and wiggles its little feet in the air. Designing monsters more powerful than a tarrasque is self-defeating; if the group kills your super-monster, what will you do next—send in its mother? That didn't work on Beowulf, and it probably won't work here.

Worse yet, singular supermonsters rarely have to think. They just use their trusty, predictable claw/claw/bite. This shouldn't be the measure of a campaign. These games fall apart because there's no challenge to them, no mental stimulation - no danger.

In all the games that I've seen, the worst, most horrible, most awful beyond-comparison opponents ever seen were often weaker than the characters who fought them. They were simply well-armed and intelligent beings who were played by the DM to be utterly ruthless and clever. Tucker's kobolds were like that.

You want to utterly terrify your players? Want to make them soil themselves in fear, have their mighty and unstoppable characters flee in abject terror and humiliation? Being beaten by a big scary demon is nothing of which to be ashamed. But being thwarted by a team of ruthlessly clever Kobolds? Little critters without any advantage other than traps and terrain?

You play this right, and you only have to do it once. You do it right, and they will never underestimate another encounter, ever. And when you bring out a Great Wyrm Dragon for them to fight, they will be grateful that it is only a Great Wyrm.

And not a tiny band of Kobolds with a few sneaky traps.

[BladeofObliviom]

Any Huge to gargantuan creature with a Burrow Speed, quickened Silent Image, and the Vital Strike feat string, (and possibly a melee and a ranged attack).

Players turn: Players are standing on ground, nothing's there that they see. Within reach of them (under the ground) is X monster.

Enemy turn: Monster pops his head up through the earth - Bites for a Greater Improved Vital Strike Power Attack. Retracts his head under the earth again (not a move action therefore no attacks of opportunity even if your players can see and strike through the dirt).

Player's Turn: Nothing's there to fight back. Player's will probably hold actions to strike the next time they see the head.

Enemy turn: Head comes up from under the sand - while an quickened silent image illusion of the same simultaneously pops up. The real one takes a bite of the PC, and down goes the head.

Player turn: Hold actions/healing on the bitten PC.

Enemy turn: Head pops up some distance away and ranged attacks them (Breath weapon/Gaze attack/Thrown whatever) and goes back down again.

Subsequent turns: Repeat shenanigans (alternating ranged and melee attacks) until someone poops themselves.

The scariest thing in the world is intelligence. If the enemy is intelligent - you already have the upper hand.

No offense, but any mid-to-high level party is going to take to the air rather than standing on the ground and getting bitten. A mid-to-high level PC without flight capability is basically a dead PC or an irrelevant PC. That melee bite is going to be useless once the surprise wears off (if they're even surprised and haven't spotted it with magic senses yet). The ranged attacks might still be useful depending on range, but any sane party will also have devastating ranged firepower that they'll be able to unleash in turn.

[Nibbens]

No offense, but any mid-to-high level party is going to take to the air rather than standing on the ground and getting bitten. A mid-to-high level PC without flight capability is basically a dead PC or an irrelevant PC. That melee bite is going to be useless once the surprise wears off (if they're even surprised and haven't spotted it with magic senses yet). The ranged attacks might still be useful depending on range, but any sane party will also have devastating ranged firepower that they'll be able to unleash in turn.

Sorry, I was imagining this scenario in a "Dungeon" of some kind. 20 foot tall ceilings, that kind of thing.

[Qwertystop]

Tucker's Kobolds sound neat at first, but frankly I think there's a good chance they fall apart in practice. They work because they play smart and the PCs don't. In addition, most of the really big dragons and demons and such are also very intelligent, often more so than kobolds. If the kobolds are being played like they have a brain, and the ancient dragons are standing there and full attacking (or even strafing with breath weapons), something's not right.

[Elandris Kajar]

I personally think that the underlying idea is that rather than sheer power, new monsters, where the PCs have no clue what they can do, is the best idea.
The best monsters I have ever fought have been homebrew, or alternately, have been changed with unique abilities. The key is that fen if the PCs have fought everything in the MM series, they will be faced with the unknown.
Also, hit run, or other ways of not knowing exactly what the thing you are fighting is, where it is, or what it looks like can make encounters more memorable. (and nasty, as a PC):smallbiggrin:

[Honest Tiefling]

They've killed plenty of other adventurers, right? That means lots of high level bodies lying around. This probably goes against what you want, as they want one big bad. Surely there's some way to stitch together some undead to break the action economy over a knee and granting spell casters extra HP. Like a big ol' mound of arms, legs, and heads with torso at the end of large tendrils or outright expelled onto the party. Not scary I admit, but I'd find it rather amusing for the party to face the remnants of their rampage.

Also a wee bit surprised the Tarrasque hasn't been thrown at them yet. I'd add on some templates just to make the encounter fresh. Nothing quite like the ol' abomination using bodies to spawn smaller versions of itself thing, as simple as it might be. Then again, maybe I am amused by the idea of widdle ol' baby tarrasques doing the chestbuster move?...And there HAS to be a template to do that!

And hey, if these guys have sold their soul, who gets to come around and collect? If you have not figured out a way to use this against the PCs, then I am very disappointed in you! If you don't want the old devil route, maybe its a new and upcoming god, using their souls and deeds to become more powerful.

Aren't some of the inevitables high level? I'm sure that selling your soul is against the law somewhere.

[BilltheCynic]

Ok, technically this is an intelligent race with class levels, but hear me out: the Master of Many Forms.

The big advantage of this guy is that he can be a ton of different monsters and rapidly shift between them to give him an edge. Bonus points if you give him the feats Assume Supernatural Ability (to let him use some of the SUs of his forms) and Quick Change (after MoMF level 3, he can shapechange as a free action). The Players are still facing a monster, but that monster is changing every few rounds. Shift to an Arcane Ooze for making the casters cry, Darktentacles for insane grappling, Earth Elemental for earth swim ambushing and escaping, a 12 headed cryohydra for a crazy full attack, Mercury Dragon for perfect 200 ft fly speed, Mimic or Doppleganger to ambush the party, the list goes on. For bonus points, make the base race a changeling to look like one monster while actually being an entirely different one or a Warforged or Volodni for those sweet, sweet immunities. The sheer versatility of being able to become so many different types of monsters and forcing the PCs to change their tactics so quickly will certainly make it very...memorable. If you want to avoid it feeling like just another fight with an intelligent race with class levels, refluff it as some sort of advanced Doppleganger or something. Shouldn't be too hard with this thing.

[Deox]

Agree with Red Fel on the kobold front. Use them once and correctly and parties will not underestimate any encounter again.

Personally, I love me some Shadesteel Golems (MM3).

Depending on how hard you want to make it, add the following:

Advance the HD
Add Rudimentary Intelligence (Dragon Mag)
Depending on how high the HD has been raised, it may qualify for [Epic] feats, including Exceptional Deflection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#exceptionalDeflection) and Infinite Deflection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#infiniteDeflection)
Shadow Evocation replicating a Continual Flame modified by Invisible Spell, heightened to 9th level.
Throw in Hide Life if you truly want a Terminator.


Also, as mentioned by Qwertystop, the Teratomorph (MM2) is hilarious and challenging.