Tempest suggestions

[Pink]

Alright, so, I'm going to soon be playing a fighter who will start taking levels of tempest. Profile is Belladonna in my sig. Now, please, no overly negative comments on my build so far. I just liked the idea of a fighter dual wielding bastard swords and such. Anyway, I really don't know where I should be going with this feat wise, or what to do if the campaign lasts long enough for tempest to be gone through. So, I'm fishing for options. Sure, i could just take the weapon focus and specialization path, or two weapon defense, but i hope for something a bit better, or at least more flavorful. So, any suggestions?

[the_tick_rules]

I would pick improved buckler defense over the 2 weapon defense feats. you can use a buckler and get it all upgraded for only a -1 on ya off hand attack and -1 armor check penalty. some good choices are in phb II. i forget the names but you can declare 2 with one feat, 3 with another, dif people to be the subject of ya spring attack and hit them all. two weapon rend is another great feat idea from the same book. armor specilization is another great choice from phb II. that's actually a very good book all around.

[Matthew]

Hmmn. Belladonna appears to have nine Feats of a possible eight? Did you get a Free Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) Bonus Feat?

[ZeroNumerous]

The big problem that no one is addressing is that you're a fighter :smalltongue:

Might I suggest dropping the TWD feats, as they are fairly pointless for what you're doing. This will put you at 7 feats. To fill in, I suggest Monkey Grip. Since you have EWP: Bastard sword, it's a one-handed weapon for you. Therefore, Monkey Grip and Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting will let you use a large bastard sword in your main hand and a normal-sized bastard sword in your off-hand. To make a bastard sword large, just double it's base cost and weight, then change it's damage to 2d6. Not only that, if you ever prove incapable of hitting an opponent, simply switch to your large bastard sword and two-hand it.

[Bears With Lasers]

The TWD feats are a waste.

Monkey Grip's a bad idea. You'll take the AB penalty to both hands for a larger weapon in one, and look totally ridiculous.

What you need is some source of extra damage per hit to make TWFing more worthwhile. Weapon Spec/Greater Spec is pretty much a fighter's only way of doing that. Pick up Melee Weapon Mastery while you're at it.

[Pink]

Don't think i'll do monkey grip, my accuracy is bad enough as it is, and bastard sword as alrge is 2d8 damage i believe, not 2d6.

My feat line-up is as follows to make it easier for those not wanting to look at profile:
EWP(bastard sword) (human)
TWF (1st level)
Oversized TWF (fighter 1st)
Dodge (Fighter 2nd)
Mobility (3rd level)
Spring attack (fighter 4th)
Improved TWF (fighter sixth)
Dual Strike (sixth level)

Thanks Matt, seems i miss counted there with one extra feat, will be fixed. Hmm, how did i get 9 :P

Thanks so far for ideas folks. However, i should add i've heard of this one defence boasting feat or something, but can't recall where it's from. something to do with a stance (don't think it means from tomb of battle, could be wrong) and fighting with two weapons.

[Bears With Lasers]

Don't take Dual Strike! It's a terrible feat.

Check out Elusive Target (Complete Warrior tactical feat) since you have Dodge and Mobility as prereqs.

Have you considered the Dervish PrC instead of/before Tempest?

[Pink]

I don't see how exactly dual strike is a terrible feat. move action and can still use two attacks.

and I have considered dervish before tempest. However I'm quite firmly on this path. I'm not doing this to be optimal, i'm doing this cause i like the idea of this build and my character having a more focused martial style and such.

Will need to check out elusive target though.

[Matthew]

Well, you don't really get two Attacks, as it resists Precision Damage stuff. As long as you can use it in combination with Spring Attack, it's fine, but I think there is some controversey about that. In fact, I think the sage ruled against it:
Dungeons & Dragons FAQ (December, 2006), p. 28.



Can a rogue using Spring Attack to . . .
1) gain an extra attack against his foe in the middle of
his move?
2) deal sneak attack damage on both attacks if his target
is caught by surprise or flanked?

While it is certainly possible to use the Spring Attack feat
to put your opponent into a position where you might sneak
attack them (whether they are flat-footed or flanked), you could
take only a single attack as a part of this action, since Spring
Attack specifies that it is done “using the attack action.” You
can’t make a full attack as part of a Spring Attack, nor can you
even use any standard action—you can make only a single
attack.

Which is a serious problem.
Bears gives you some good alternatives. I think I would say be wary of this Bastard Sword combination, as the increase in damage over a Long Sword is not worth the Feat... honestly you would even be better off with Weapon Focus (Long Sword) than Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword). In terms of fluff it's no big deal to be using Long Swords over Bastard Swords, I would say.
I like Tempest over Dervish, but I have to admit the latter is generally better mechanically, if you meet the prerequisites.

[Matthew]

Don't think i'll do monkey grip
Very wise.

Thanks Matt, seems i miss counted there with one extra feat, will be fixed. Hmm, how did i get 9 :P
No problem, easily done.

I don't see how exactly dual strike is a terrible feat. move action and can still use two attacks.
Well, your character doesn't really get two Attacks, as it is one roll and resists Precision Damage stuff. As long as you can use it in combination with Spring Attack, it's fine, but I think there is some controversey about that. In fact, I think the sage ruled against it:
Dungeons & Dragons FAQ (December, 2006), p. 28.



Can a rogue using Spring Attack to . . .
1) gain an extra attack against his foe in the middle of
his move?
2) deal sneak attack damage on both attacks if his target
is caught by surprise or flanked?
While it is certainly possible to use the Spring Attack feat
to put your opponent into a position where you might sneak
attack them (whether they are flat-footed or flanked), you could
take only a single attack as a part of this action, since Spring
Attack specifies that it is done “using the attack action.” You
can’t make a full attack as part of a Spring Attack, nor can you
even use any standard action—you can make only a single
attack.

Which is a serious problem.

Bears suggests some good alternatives. I think I would say be wary of this Bastard Sword combination, as the increase in damage over a Long Sword is not worth the Feat... honestly you would even be better off with Weapon Focus (Long Sword) than Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword). In terms of fluff it's no big deal to be using Long Swords over Bastard Swords, I would say.
I like Tempest over Dervish, but I have to admit the latter is generally better mechanically, if you meet the prerequisites.

[Pink]

Okay, reworked feats (also, flaws, yummy, shaky and Unreactive [shhhh, i know, I know, initiative yummy, meh, with my dex it' only -1.])

is now the following
Weapon Focus(longsword)
TWF
OTWF
Dodge
Mobility
WS (longsword)
Spring attack
Improved buckler defence (question, does -1 to attack apply with both hands or offhand only?)
Improved TWF
Power Attack

I realized dual strike adds nothing very good, tempest gives me the two attacks on spring (which i hope to stack with some of the multiple attack spring feats in PHBII).

Anyway, thanks very much for suggestions to everyone, and if there are anyore please post them.

Also, I love my AC and especially my future ac.

[SpatulaOfDoom]

The current build looks pretty solid.

Don't worry about the unreactive flaw, with a rogue or spellcaster it'd be more painful but for a two weapon fighter it can actually be a boon, if you let your opponent waste the move action to get up to you you get a full attack off first.

With a decent AC that will indeed go up later Elusive target can be quite nice.
Remember spring attack only protects you from AOO's against the person you're targeting with the Spring Attack, with mobility any AOO's you attract using spring attack either on purpose or by accident are unlikely to hit and will give you an AOO against them, if you have Elusive target.

I'm not entirely sure why you took Power Attack though, with your lower AB it'll be less usefull, and if I remember correctly you won't be able to add the PA bonus damage to your off hand when two weapon fighting.

[Leon]

See if you can lay your hands on 2 Sun Blades, all the goodness of a Bastard Sword that acts like a shortsword

[Pink]

I was kinda iffy about power attack myself actually, I might change it yet. but you can't apply it to light weapons, so i'm unsure how it works when, with OTWF, the offhand is one handed.

Maybe i should just switch it to elusive target....oh the decisions.

[Talya]

How about Goliath as a race? Then you get a better version of monkey grip [powerful build] without penalty, and nice strength modifiers to boot.

Edit: Hey, while this would still be a bad idea, would a goliath with monkey grip weild huge weapons?

[Pink]

Ah, see, that changes from optimizing my build, to just trying to go crazy for stats. If you look you'll see that i have a rather nice background already written up for her, and it'd be such a shame to just toss away this character idea I've started to get to like just the more stats.

[Talya]

Ah yes. Background is important. I like the goliath race stylisticly, i'd play one for the background, but you can't shoehorn one in to to an existing background easily.

[Matthew]

Okay, reworked feats (also, flaws, yummy, shaky and Unreactive [shhhh, i know, I know, initiative yummy, meh, with my dex it' only -1.])

is now the following
Weapon Focus(longsword)
TWF
OTWF
Dodge
Mobility
WS (longsword)
Spring attack
Improved buckler defence (question, does -1 to attack apply with both hands or offhand only?)
Improved TWF
Power Attack

I realized dual strike adds nothing very good, tempest gives me the two attacks on spring (which i hope to stack with some of the multiple attack spring feats in PHBII).

Anyway, thanks very much for suggestions to everyone, and if there are anyore please post them.

Also, I love my AC and especially my future ac.
Looks good. I have one other suggestion (I like to call it the secret of effective Two Weapon Fighting, it's not, but I like to call it that...). One of the key problems with Two Weapon Fighting is getting to make a Full Attack and the problems of reduced damage when you cannot. My solution to this is to take the Quick Draw Feat and start any encounter with one Sword drawn and one sheathed. Then, use the primary weapon Two Handed until the opportunity to make a Full Attack occurs and use Quick Draw to switch to Two Weapon Fighting. It takes two Free Actions (one to release two handed grip and one to draw the second weapon), but that should be no problem. You can always use Spring Attack to get away afterwards, if things turn bad. The main advantage of this is that you can use Power Attack and Leap Attack nonesense, as well as be a Two Weapon Fighter.
Bucklers impose a -1 Penalty on all your attacks. There are, however, a lot of ways to get AC outside of Improved Buckler Defence and Bucklers - Combat Expertise will do the job of a Masterwork Buckler and you can turn it off. Enchanted Bucklers are a different story, but you might as well get an Animated Shield (Arggh) as pump gold into a Buckler. Otherwise, there are plenty of magical trinkets that grant AC.

[NEO|Phyte]

Edit: Hey, while this would still be a bad idea, would a goliath with monkey grip weild huge weapons?
The abilities don't stack, which may or may not be a good thing.