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View Full Version : level 20 Dervish recipe (Munchkin!)



Talya
2007-04-22, 06:06 PM
Let me preface this by saying, if I were DMing a game and some player tried to build this, I'd feed him to the tarrasque. It's pure munchkin design, with no thought to cohesive feats that actually make sense from a character storyline standpoint, instead entirely built around qualifying for a pair PRCs that stack too nicely. Two of the feats they'll never even use...except as a qualification for a PrC.

Now, with that out of the way, here is a recipe for Dervish Munchkin Delight.

Start with a base of Grey Elf. The +2 dex and int are the exact flavor we're looking for here. Add in 2 levels of Swashbuckler, for taste. (And weapon finesse as a class ability and weapon focus: Longsword as your level 1 feat. While Longsword seems like the flavor will be out of place in this dish, it adds some nice flavor while baking.) Then take two levels of fighter right now, and sprinkle with combat expertise, dodge, and mobility. Take one more level of Swashbuckler for insightful strike.

Now open your jar of dervish and drop one level of dervish into the dish. Take two weapon fighting. Stir. Use Scimitars from now on.

Slowly mix in two more levels of fighter and add a pinch of rarely used Mounted Combat.

It's at this point where weapon focus: longsword shows its flavor. Carefully blacken two spears of Champion of Corellon Larethian for "Elegance." (Elegant strike, that is.) Dust it with Improved Two Weapon Fighting, before adding to the mix.

Place in the oven and bake for 9 levels of Dervish. Periodically open it up to add Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus: Scimitar, and Weapon Specialization: Scimitar.

Take it out and let cool. If you prefer, garnish with a slice of Ranger for Tracking.

Arbitrarity
2007-04-22, 06:21 PM
That's not really... cheese.

I mean, OK, you add dex, int and str to damage, and get dervish 10 abilities. But, at best, you get something like +31 from stats, but that needs two +4 tomes, one +5 tome, and 3 18's. While very shiny, it doesn't stand up to something cheesy like a Thri-Kreen Fighter/psywar or somesuch :P.

Wait... 7 hits of 1d6+32? Ouch.

Nah. Think 14 hits of 1d6+39 or so. (This is the result of a MWF thri kreen with scimitars and leap attack, shock trooper, 6 levels of fighter, 11 of psywar, psionic lion's charge full-attacking.)

Marty, this thing still does overall 7d6+7xInt+7xDex+4xStr

Speed weapon!

martyboy74
2007-04-22, 06:38 PM
This really isn't that good. A thri-kreen straight fighter with GMWF gets 13 attacks, and using said scimitars, deals 13d6+8.5*(STR modifier).

Talya
2007-04-22, 06:42 PM
I've never seen a Thri-kreen, nor do i suspect it is playable in any campaign i've played in. :( Nor can I quite get the damage bonuses out of my build that you're suggesting...odd...

martyboy74
2007-04-22, 06:44 PM
I've never seen a Thri-kreen, nor do i suspect it is playable in any campaign i've played in. :(
...it's in the MMII. And the XPH. You could also see if your DM would let you get a permanent item of Girallon's Blessing. Really, anyway to get an extra pair of arms works.

Talya
2007-04-22, 06:49 PM
Ah, Thri-keen is in a psionics handbook. Every DM i've ever known has outlawed d20 psionics, and the psionics system described in SRD makes no sense to me at all.

ZeroNumerous
2007-04-22, 06:54 PM
You gain X power points based on your class daily. You gain Y extra power points based on Z stat x level.

From there, it's like playing a sorceror.

Pick your powers, then use your power points to 'cast' said powers. You can only use as up to your level in power points in a single round though. Simple.

martyboy74
2007-04-22, 06:54 PM
Ah, Thri-keen is in a psionics handbook. Every DM i've ever known has outlawed d20 psionics, and the psionics system described in SRD makes no sense to me at all.
...psionics makes more sense than vancian magic. And a DM who outlaws psionics in all campaigns probably thinks it's broken, which it's not.

Talya
2007-04-22, 06:57 PM
...psionics makes more sense than vancian magic. And a DM who outlaws psionics in all campaigns probably thinks it's broken, which it's not.

I think most feel it's redundant, and there's no reason to have a second magic system in the game. It rarely fits well into the more common game worlds. (Even Forgotten Realms, which has a precedent for psionics, has them as extremely rare except in specific races, such as ilithids.)

kamikasei
2007-04-22, 06:58 PM
I admit that "psionics rules make no sense to me" is an objection I've never heard before, and I agree with the others about it, but has it anything much to do with the discussion?

Talya, a 3.5 Thri-Kreen outside of the XPH may be found in Shining South, a Forgotten Realms book. Alternatively it's in the MM2. It's a bug-creature with extra arms.

Talya
2007-04-22, 07:02 PM
Speaking of extra arms, has anyone ever seen any offical creatures/races that look like the Hindu Goddess Kali or any other four-armed human?

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-22, 07:06 PM
Why would you feed someone with that build to the Tarrasque? It's solid, but not overpowering or game-breaking in any way. If PrCs have stupid feats for qualification, that's the PrCs' fault, not the player's.

Ramza00
2007-04-22, 07:18 PM
Thri Keen
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ssouth_gallery/84377.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/mm2_gallery/88268_620_121.jpg

Talya
2007-04-22, 07:48 PM
Ugly things. Not exactly condusive to tavern roleplaying, I'd bet.

kamikasei
2007-04-22, 07:55 PM
Ugly things. Not exactly condusive to tavern roleplaying, I'd bet.

Fleshy bigot! And it depends on the tavern, really. Are they much worse than, say, a half-dragon or tiefling?

Point is, they're a not-particularly-splatbookish race on which a variety of absurd DPR builds can be based.

Ramza00
2007-04-22, 08:06 PM
Ugly things. Not exactly condusive to tavern roleplaying, I'd bet.

And why wouldn't you expect a Thri-Keen to be allowed into a tavern? The major settings (Greyhawk, Eberron, FR) have a huge amount of variety of people and races. Why wouldn't an praying mantis with 4 arms be allowed into a tavern, especially when he has alot of gold on hand since he is an adventurer, and if you piss him off he will have multiple weapons where he can slice and dice you?

Furthemore there is always the Big Giant Cloak, Hat of Disquse, Custom Item of Alter Self, Skin of Proteus if the Thri Keen wants to be inconspicuous inside tavern environments.

Wonders how you would feel if you played a planescape tournament and you decided to sit down at a tavern :smallwink:

Talya
2007-04-22, 08:13 PM
Why would you feed someone with that build to the Tarrasque? It's solid, but not overpowering or game-breaking in any way. If PrCs have stupid feats for qualification, that's the PrCs' fault, not the player's.

Because PrCs are not designed to make you more powerful than you would be single-classed. They're designed to add flavor, they're designed to make concepts playable that would otherwise be unworkable. They're not designed to "dip in" and pick and choose particular features to maximize your own potential. Ideally, you never even select a PrC...a DM offers it to you when he sees you going along a direction where it might appeal to you. As the DMG2 puts it when talking about building a custom PrC...they should be designed so that it's always difficult to decide if you want the next level of that PrC, or the base class you had started on. Unfortunately, the way the game is designed, that's not possible, there's no real "balance," and its too easy to mix and match class features to become far better than you would otherwise be. But the spirit of it is the same...

Talya
2007-04-22, 08:16 PM
And why wouldn't you expect a Thri-Keen to be allowed into a tavern? The major settings (Greyhawk, Eberron, FR) have a huge amount of variety of people and races.

And in most of them, any "monstrous humanoid" style of race is gonna get killed on sight by city guards unless the people in the area know them well. Aside from that, if you read the fluff on Thri-kreen in Shining South (which I just did), they don't sound like they'd have much fun in a tavern. They have no real personalities to speak of, as is clearly spelled out in their racial descriptions.

Lemur
2007-04-22, 08:18 PM
You say that like taking those two levels of Champion of Correllon makes you obviously more powerful than taking two levels of say, fighter. Dex to damage is certainly better than a bonus feat, but is it better than 3 bonus feats? If you don't take the PrC, you don't need Mounted Combat or Weapon Focus, meaning you have at least two free feats to play with, and feats don't come easily.

martyboy74
2007-04-22, 08:19 PM
Because PrCs are not designed to make you more powerful than you would be single-classed. They're designed to add flavor, they're designed to make concepts playable that would otherwise be unworkable. They're not designed to "dip in" and pick and choose particular features to maximize your own potential. Ideally, you never even select a PrC...a DM offers it to you when he sees you going along a direction where it might appeal to you. As the DMG2 puts it when talking about building a custom PrC...they should be designed so that it's always difficult to decide if you want the next level of that PrC, or the base class you had started on. Unfortunately, the way the game is designed, that's not possible, there's no real "balance," and its too easy to mix and match class features to become far better than you would otherwise be. But the spirit of it is the same...
What? No. PrCs are supposed to be better than base classes. Why else would they have the level requirements?

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-22, 08:20 PM
Sorry, but the proliferance of PrCs in WotC products says that, nope, that's not how it works.

Multiclassing PrCs is like regular multiclassing. "Ideally, you never select a PrC"? Then why do many have requirements few if any people would take otherwise, requirements that mean you have to start on it way in advance?
And why would you want to take those choices outof the hands of the players?

Besides, a character with those PrCs is still less powerful than a single-classed druid.

That build is not some sort of horrible munchkin build. It's pretty good, but it's not amazing. CoCL+Swashbuckler don't even add more damage than being really strong would, and fail against crit-immune creatures.

Annarrkkii
2007-04-22, 08:25 PM
Solid. The Lion's Charge spell from the Spell Compendium, is a ranger spell and works just as well as Psionic Lion's Charge, so you don't need to use the psionics handbook.

But hell, a Raptoran Fighter/Ranger/Stormtalon is more effective, damage-wise. Leap Attack, Power Attack, Lion's Charge spell, Powerful Charge, Greater Powerful Charge, Diving Charge, and then open a fight with the Twisted Charge skill trick on a dive attack, and your damage output is way higher.

Your example is far from gamebreaking or munchkinery. In fact, it's more of a reasonably realistic use of classes to create a solid character. You haven't really exploited any loopholes or anything.

Nice build, though, and I'm glad to see you took my suggestion to heart with the 3rd level of Swashbuckler. ;)

Talya
2007-04-22, 08:29 PM
I forgot the champion bonus feat. I'm thinking elusive target or karmic strike...needs to be a fighter feat with either dodge, expertise, or mounted combat as a prerequisite. Suggestions?

Karmic Strike especially, while dervish dancing...move away from a target (don't tumble) you just hit while dancing...if he hits you you hit right back and keep dancing.

Talya
2007-04-22, 08:34 PM
Sorry, but the proliferance of PrCs in WotC products says that, nope, that's not how it works.

Multiclassing PrCs is like regular multiclassing. "Ideally, you never select a PrC"? Then why do many have requirements few if any people would take otherwise, requirements that mean you have to start on it way in advance?
And why would you want to take those choices outof the hands of the players?

Besides, a character with those PrCs is still less powerful than a single-classed druid.

That build is not some sort of horrible munchkin build. It's pretty good, but it's not amazing. CoCL+Swashbuckler don't even add more damage than being really strong would, and fail against crit-immune creatures.

You and I have very different ideas of what's acceptable in our campaigns, I think. I wouldn't enjoy playing in one of yours...while mechanics like this make up a fun diversion once in a while, I don't care for this type of thing in actual gameplay.

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-22, 08:39 PM
But... surely people play clerics or druids or wizards or sorcerers in your games, right? Why are they fine when the CoCL/dervish isn't?

kamikasei
2007-04-22, 08:43 PM
Honestly, a Swashbuckler/Fighter/Champion/Dervish sounds like quite a fluffily solid character to me. An elf! A smart, agile, but not terribly strong elf! Who learns to turn his agility and cunning into a powerful fighting style, becoming a terrifyingly effective wielder of elegant elven weapons! (This is fluff, now, independent of how terrifying or effective the character actually is.)

What about that build do you object to, Talya?

Ramza00
2007-04-22, 08:49 PM
Honestly, a Swashbuckler/Fighter/Champion/Dervish sounds like quite a fluffily solid character to me. An elf! A smart, agile, but not terribly strong elf! Who learns to turn his agility and cunning into a powerful fighting style, becoming a terrifyingly effective wielder of elegant elven weapons! (This is fluff, now, independent of how terrifying or effective the character actually is.)

What about that build do you object to, Talya?
She objects to the fact that in theory (in her mind and I agree with her) PRCs shouldn't advance the power when compared to base classes. In reality though WOTC has made it a fact that PRCs do advance the power of a character when compared to a pure base class character. Sure maybe 70-90% of prcs don't create power creep or very little power creep. Regardless most people don't take those 70-90% of prcs instead they take the 10-30% of prcs that help their character

She doesn't like the fact PRCs often give power boosts to a character. Me I don't mind this for melee/skill classes, for lets be honest melee isn't that good when you start getting to the levels when you can prestige out. This is due to the inital balance of melee vs magic. I do have a serious problem with full caster prcs especially ones such as IotSV, Incantatrix, and RSoP.

Her complaining about Champion of CL and Dervish seems peculiar to me, in reality it is those other 3 classes I listed, not the ones she mention when she started the post which are the big offenders. Regardless of the occurrence Tayla is harping on right now, I understand why she is harping on it.

Ramza00
2007-04-22, 08:50 PM
Honestly, a Swashbuckler/Fighter/Champion/Dervish sounds like quite a fluffily solid character to me. An elf! A smart, agile, but not terribly strong elf! Who learns to turn his agility and cunning into a powerful fighting style, becoming a terrifyingly effective wielder of elegant elven weapons! (This is fluff, now, independent of how terrifying or effective the character actually is.)

I agree, a Swashbuckler, Fighter, Champion, Dervish just flows together from a fluff perspective.

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-22, 08:51 PM
How is having a stronger PrC any different from having a stronger base class or multiclass combination?

Ramza00
2007-04-22, 08:52 PM
How is having a stronger PrC any different from having a stronger base class or multiclass combination?

It isn't any different.

The idea though originates from the fallacy that the base classes are equal in power, or at least roughly equal.

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-22, 08:56 PM
But I presume Talya wouldn't call someone a munchkin for playing, say, a barbarian/fighter instead of a pure fighter... or a druid or cleric, or a wizard. So why is playing a swashbuckler/CoCL/Dervish munchkinny?

Talya
2007-04-22, 09:01 PM
I specifically don't like taking feats that you never intend to use to qualify for multiple PrCs. Those feats are there for a reason, not because someone was stupid and put non-optimal feats in the requirements by mistake. They're there because the class is designed to, at least from a fluff standpoint, use them.

I wouldn't have the patience for a build like this anyway, unless you started well into it (like, level 8 or 9 for that first bit of Champion.)

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-22, 09:06 PM
I specifically don't like taking feats that you never intend to use to qualify for multiple PrCs. Those feats are there for a reason, not because someone was stupid and put non-optimal feats in the requirements by mistake. They're there because the class is designed to, at least from a fluff standpoint, use them.
Yes, those feats are there for a reason.
That reason is entry cost. The class does something good, so it requires you to "waste" feats entering it. This is common with classes requiring suboptimal feats--they could require decent feats that fit the flavor just as easily.

And if the PrC fits your flavor, but requires feats that don't, because those feats are meant to fit it down... why not take them and never use them? In character, it's no different from not having them. Feats aren't an IC concept.

Ramza00
2007-04-22, 09:08 PM
But I presume Talya wouldn't call someone a munchkin for playing, say, a barbarian/fighter instead of a pure fighter... or a druid or cleric, or a wizard. So why is playing a swashbuckler/CoCL/Dervish munchkinny?
For the class allows you to do things a normal fighter/barbarian can't do.

Dervish grants mobility options while still full attacking
CoCL gives Dex to Damage (which you can now do with a fighter via the Shadowhand feat but it is a different set of weapons).

Since these prcs allow you to do things a normal multiclass character couldn't do, they are on the face broken/unbalanced/power creep/not right for her games. The reason why "for they allow a character to do things they couldn't do" normally with a base class and maybe a base class multiclass character.

For example Miko is a Monk Paladin in OoTS. She is a multiclass character. She isn't in any prc. Tayla would have no problems with Miko doing a special Samurai only prc to represent her being part of the organization. As long ad the prc doesn't modify the power balance, nor does it allow options a normal multiclass couldn't do.

Prcs should be completely flavor oriented, they should be like titles or something. I am called a X since I have lvls in this prc.

Talya
2007-04-22, 09:08 PM
BTW, I could make this a little extra munchkin by going with Drow rather than Grey Elf (save -2 strength, get SR and nifty abilities)...but...

A drow worshipping a CG god with dual scimitars and a level of ranger seems somehow irritatingly familiar.

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-22, 09:10 PM
Drow would be a terrible choice--remember the LA.

The distinction between a character getting a special ability from a multiclass and from a PrC is totally arbitrary. It's OK for Swashbuckler to have Insightful Strike, but not OK for CoCL to have Elegant Strike? man what.

Talya
2007-04-22, 09:14 PM
From a mechanics standpoint, why are worshippers of corellon larethian the only ones with elegant strike?

That's totally arbitrary too. Ideally you could design similar classes for other races, too.

Hey, build it for Thri-kreens with multiweapon fighting!

Or not.

And way to ignore my drizzt clone joke and take it seriously!

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-22, 09:18 PM
From a mechanics standpoints... because only the CoCL PrC grants that ability. It's not all CL worshippers, it's this specific group. There's no reason others couldn't. You can feel free to adapt the PrC. IC, there's no such thing as "elegant strike"--or you could call it a secret technique.

Why are Clerics the only ones with Domains? Why are wizards the only ones with spellbooks? I fail to see why you're making such a distinction between classes (which can sometimes have a very specific flavor, i.e. the Paladin) and prestige classes.

Talya
2007-04-22, 09:23 PM
While your picking things apart, BWL, what's a good fighter bonus feat for this build with Expertise, Dodge, or Mounted combat (ha) as a prerequisite?

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-22, 09:25 PM
Mobility -> Elusive Target.

Ramza00
2007-04-22, 09:27 PM
Well first replace Dodge with Expeditious Dodge. Works for qualification as if it was Dodge, but you get +2 AC against everybody if you move 40 feet (recalling from memory). It is in the RoTW book the same one as CoCL.

A Dervish has a serious possibility of moving 40 feet at least in higher levels

Talya
2007-04-22, 09:27 PM
Mobility -> Elusive Target.

I do like elusive target...

Talya
2007-04-22, 09:28 PM
Well first replace Dodge with Expeditious Dodge. Works for qualification as if it was Dodge, but you get +2 AC against everybody if you move 40 feet (recalling from memory). It is in the RoTW book the same one as CoCL.

A Dervish has a serious possibility of moving 40 feet at least in higher levels

That's a very good dervish feat. Sure it only works after you've moved 40'...but with a level 10 dervish that will be for 55 combat rounds a day...

I know a lot of people don't like Weapon focus/Weapon Specialization. Do you think it's worth it for this build? (Especially as its their ONLY bonus damage against crit-immune stuff).

Edo
2007-04-22, 11:52 PM
Speaking of extra arms, has anyone ever seen any offical creatures/races that look like the Hindu Goddess Kali or any other four-armed human?Yes, I had the misfortune of doing so.

Siarrans, from I think Mythic Races. They desperately needed a +1 LA.

Talya
2007-04-23, 12:24 AM
Yes, I had the misfortune of doing so.

Siarrans, from I think Mythic Races. They desperately needed a +1 LA.

Neat. Must look them up.

Oh, something I forgot in this build:

Level 10 of Dervish gives her double her attacks for one round per day. 14 attacks becomes comparable to that Thri-Kreen, but not nearly as often.

I've also been actually building it now, and the base saves are nice: (Fort +15, Ref +10, Will +11...before ability modifiers or grace are added in.)

Talya
2007-04-24, 02:20 PM
My previous attempt at the munchkin dervish came up a bit short. Oh, it was solid, nutritional, and had great flavor, but it was missing that little extra something.

Truly, garnishing with that last level of ranger did give it a wonderful musky, outdoors flavor, but it really left the dish a bit simplistic. But I found a new recipe book called Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords.

Behold, the new and improved version!

Follow the instructions as in the original post, but rather than garnishing with Ranger, let's add 1 sprinkle of Warblade!

At this point, with battle clarity, your already silly reflex save just got sillier. Lets ignore that. With only one level, battle clarity does nothing for you either. What you get, is a d12 final hit die, 3 maneuvers, and one stance.

Thanks to all the previous class levels counting 1/2 toward initiator level, these three maneuvers and stance can be selected from anything up to level 5 in the disciplines list.

So what do we take:
Stance - Dancing Blade Form, 5th level Iron Heart. This adds +5 to reach with all of her melee attacks. Suddenly, this dervish has a lot more freedom of where to move in her dervish dance. Not to mention, the name of the stance is quite dervishy. But, it requires two more iron heart maneuvers as prerequisites. Let's take care of that.
Maneuvers:
Iron Heart Surge, 3rd level Iron Heart. This doesn't work with dervish dance. So why take it? Just in case they force you to stop dancing! Durned wizards and their save or suck spells. And hey, as a bonus, you're +2 to hit on your next turn. It also requires another iron heart maneuver, so lets keep looking...
Wall of Blades, 2nd level Iron Heart. Hey, it's a counter Immediate action, so it works with anything. With this dervish's attack bonus, this will let them block almost any incoming attack.
Dazing Strike, 5th level iron heart. Yes, it's a strike. But there just might be times you can't dervish dance, and it's always nice to have a surprise.

Annarrkkii
2007-04-24, 06:15 PM
I do like elusive target...

Am I the only one who had a little sort of spasm of happiness when I thought of Elusive Target + Karmic Strike + Desert Wind Dodge + Desert Flame + Improved Trip + Fiery Assault + Wind Stride?

Run up to a bunch of people, attack each one, provoke and AoO from each one, hit them back when they hit you, then trip them as you move away and get a free attack against them when they are down, all with an extra 1d6+1 fire damage, 1d6 skirmish damage, and +1 AC?

Unrelated. But awesome.

Anyway, I would argue that Mounted Combat is, in fact, rather off flavor for the Champion of Corellan Larethian, for several reasons.

Corellan likes LONGbows. LONGbows.

The class has no horsey abilities.

The class has abilities specifically of no use when on horseback—especially Unimpeded Movement and the like.

The class shies away from the lance, which is what you use when you are on horseback. Always.

EDIT: As a side not, I recommend Moment of Perfect Mind over Dazing Strike. It may be lower level, but it can save your ASS, especially with the meh will save this build will have at completion.

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-24, 06:16 PM
It's not meant to be a flavor feat, it's meant to be "pay for your dex to damage! PAY for it!" feat.

Talya
2007-04-24, 06:36 PM
Oh, mark me, the payment will mostly be done by those on the other end of my scimitars.

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-24, 06:51 PM
Unless they're crit-immune. In which case you will be weeping over your lost love, Precision Damage

Talya
2007-04-24, 06:54 PM
Unless they're crit-immune. In which case you will be weeping over your lost love, Precision Damage

hmm. In which case the wizard's gonna have to use a spell.

KIDS
2007-04-24, 07:08 PM
First of all, characters discover fighting styles as they level. What's wrong with those feats?
Second, the character can be called powerful, but is not even close to being overpowered.
And third, unless he/she uses the "powerful" character to make other party memebers' lives miserable (which is munchkin), what's the problem? Relax and let the players have fun, it's not like that extra +3 dmg from insightful strike will eat your monsters alive.

Talya
2007-04-24, 07:21 PM
I'm going to have to try this as a human without the champion class and see what I can do with these martial adepts...as nice as dex to damage is, it's costing me 3 feats (Human, weapon focus: longsword, mounted combat) and 2 levels worth of maneuvers.

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-24, 07:22 PM
And you can pick up Dex to damage with ToB. Just take a Swordsage level or two and the Shadow Blade feat.

Talya
2007-04-24, 07:32 PM
Gah. Swordsage. 3/4 BAB and Wisdom required...starting to get MAD.

Hmm. Shadow hand only works with the "preferred weapon." That doesn't seem to include scimitars...

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-24, 07:39 PM
You can use daggers with both Shadow Hand and Dervish.

Talya
2007-04-24, 07:52 PM
You can use daggers with both Shadow Hand and Dervish.

Does not fit my dervish mental image. Dervish is Scimitars and Falchions. Although perhaps a Jambiya dagger would suffice...still not quite right.

Bears With Lasers
2007-04-24, 07:55 PM
Curved daggers would do, yes.

And, c'mon. Surely not all dervishes have to be the same.

Annarrkkii
2007-04-24, 07:56 PM
Daggers aren't slashing...

Da Beast
2007-04-24, 07:57 PM
I've seen better. Like the Dervish that could get 25 attacks a round with vorpal whips, giving at an almost guaranteed decapitation.

Talya
2007-04-24, 08:01 PM
Daggers aren't slashing...

By RAW, they are both peircing and slashing. But a Jambiya should be slashing. Regardless, doesn't fit my style.

Shortswords are peircing only, which is bizarre. It doesn't fit either though.

Matthew
2007-04-24, 08:38 PM
Yeah, Daggers used to be Piercing in 3.0. In 3.5 they have become Piercing or Slashing, but Short Swords remain Piercing and Long Swords remain Slashing. Dumb, but there you go. It's a fairly common house rule to make all Swords Piercing or Slashing.

Annarrkkii
2007-04-24, 09:06 PM
I stand corrected. A lot of the damage types are strange.

Armads
2007-04-24, 09:11 PM
A Thri-kreen Dervish can get 13 attacks per round, with the possibility of a thousand cuts doubling it, and then using time stand still to get another full attack. Before using the belt of battle.

Talya
2007-04-24, 09:28 PM
A Thri-kreen Dervish can get 13 attacks per round, with the possibility of a thousand cuts doubling it, and then using time stand still to get another full attack. Before using the belt of battle.

Yeah. And my belly-dancing, veiled, scimitar weilding belle-of-the-desert thri-kreen is gonna get some odd stares.

BTW, to execute 13 attacks as a dervish, you need a movement rate of at least 65. more to do so reliably. Dervish itself only boosts you +15'.

crazedloon
2007-04-24, 09:42 PM
so by a wonderous item worth 2000 which casts continuous expeditious retreat on yourslef add that to the Thri-kreen 40ft + dervish 15 + item 30 =85 I think you have the range :smallwink:

Annarrkkii
2007-04-24, 09:47 PM
ONE: The item costs 4,000 gp. (CL 1 x Level 1 Spell x 2000 gp x 2 Duration in Minutes/level).

TWO: Expeditious Retreat expressly grants Enhancement bonus.


Expeditious Retreat
[...]
(This adjustment is treated as an enhancement bonus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/theBasics.htm#enhancementBonus).)The relevant passage from Dervish is:


At 2nd level... the dervish gains an enhancement bonus to her speed.As per 3.5 D+D, two enhancement bonuses do not stack.

crazedloon
2007-04-24, 09:51 PM
oops sorry I did the crunch for that from memory and forgot the extra price for the minutes

but that still gives you 70ft becuase you would go with the better of the two

Ramza00
2007-04-24, 10:52 PM
If you go thri keen, you might as well two handed wield 2 drow scorpion chains, 2 Greatswords, or 2 Guisarme.