Alchemist bomb : only way to treat them like a attack is via fast bomb ?

[Roncorps]

So, yesterday was kind of a bummer for me. I'm rolling a Gnome Alchemist 6 / Mythic Trickster 1 and I've choosen Fleet Charge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/trickster) as my Mythic Attack. Not bad choice, but I didn't think, or knew, about the way the alchemist bombs truly worked.

So, DM and another player tell me "Nope, cannot work with bombs. They are not attack, only standard action". Their logic was good, it's was like saying you can't cast one more spell with it even if it's a standard action. So yeah, ok, my principal arsenal don't count.

As I read on PFSRD, I saw that Fast bomb (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/fast-bombs) can be used with other feat (rapid shot, TWF, etc.), because RAW say "Act like a full round attack". Oh, attack. And even Paizo say that this word change everything.

So, I am right to think that if I take the Fast bomb discovery, Fleet Charge would work IF I use Fast bomb before (comboing them).

Bonus question : Do you think take Path Dabbling for the Archmage Craft Mastery can be worth it ? There not a lot of good path ability and one capable of crafting any magic item seem kind of ... sweet.

[Eldaran]

I don't think there is a way to make them count as a regular attack, even fast bombs only works on a full attack. However, you can still throw other alchemical items with fleet charge, and you'll still get your Int mod to damage due to Throw Anything. You can use the Hybridization Funnel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/hybridization-funnel) to make them surprisingly effective.

It would also not be unreasonable for your DM to allow you to throw a bomb with fleet charge if you have fast bombs, but that is still a house rule so you'll have to ask them.

[kopout]

But alchemist bombs are an attack.




Bomb (Su)

-snip-
Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown bombs have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack. Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. On a direct hit, an alchemist's bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the alchemist's Intelligence modifier. The damage of an alchemist's bomb increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered alchemist level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from an alchemist bomb is always equal to the bomb's minimum damage (so if the bomb would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage). Those caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the alchemist's level + the alchemist's Intelligence modifier.
-snip-

A thrown splash weapon, lets look at that.


Throw Splash Weapon

A splash weapon is a ranged weapon that breaks on impact, splashing or scattering its contents over its target and nearby creatures or objects. To attack with a splash weapon, make a ranged touch attack against the target. Thrown splash weapons require no weapon proficiency, so you don't take the –4 nonproficiency penalty. A hit deals direct hit damage to the target, and splash damage to all creatures within 5 feet of the target. If the target is Large or larger, you choose one of its squares and the splash damage affects creatures within 5 feet of that square. Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as the damage from the rogue's sneak attack class feature).

-snip-

And that works with fleet charge?


Fleet Charge (Ex)

As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to move up to your speed. At any point during this movement, you can make a single melee or ranged attack at your highest attack bonus, adding your tier to the attack roll. This is in addition to any other attacks you make this round. Damage from this attack bypasses all damage reduction.

Ayup

Strangely, sense you can't make a full attack with fleet charge Fast Bombs may be useless for it.

[Roncorps]

Soooo ... you are telling me that because the Bomb use the wording of the Splash weapon that say is using a ranged touchattack, it is so an attack ?

Splash weapon rule bypass the "standard action" of the bomb ?

[kopout]

Making an attack is a standard action by default. Its actually the first thing listed under standard action on the PFSRD. It being a standard action doesn't prevent it from being an attack.

[Roncorps]

Ok, it's more about the way Throw splash weapon work that make that standard action (the bomb) an attack, because alchemist bomb use that rule.

[Eldaran]

Kopout, read the line right before the one you bolded.


Drawing the components of, creating, and throwing a bomb requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

It would be like saying spells with a standard action cast time that require attack rolls can be used on a full attack.

[Roncorps]

But he did say that he didn't think Fleet Charge would work with Fast Bomb.

As I see it, why bomb can be used with Fleet Charge (as to why you can't shoot 2 Magic Missile) is because bomb use the Throw splash weapon ruling and spell don't, they have their own resolution.

But I'm no pro.

[Eldaran]

Throw splash weapon is just a special kind of attack, you can use it as part of a full attack if you have the splash weapons prepared and have some way of drawing them (or already have them drawn), and you can use it as part of Fleet Charge. It's like Trip or Disarm in that sense. Alchemist bomb is different, it uses the throw splash weapon attack (for purposes of missing and determining splash damage) but it explicitly takes a standard action to do so.