Did I go too far?

[Beowulf DW]

My group is gearing up for a Kingmaker style game set in the Five Kings Montains of Golarion. Not only are we going to try to reclaim the old dwarven kingdom, we're apparently writing an adventure path as we go. I'm currently helping the DM with the player's guide, and I submitted a few entries on where some of the classes fit into dwarf society (the whole thing is made under the assumption that the whole party consists of dorfs). I was curious to know what you all thought of the entry I wrote up for the Witch:


Witch

If you ask most dwarves on the street if there are dwarven witches, you’ll hear a very emphatic “No.” Most dwarves that say this are not deliberately lying. Dwarven witches prefer to attempt to pass themselves off as wizards or shamans to avoid suspicion. Dwarven witches do not form covens as a rule, though there is one exception. Long ago, one dwarf witch (whose name has been lost to the ages) used his powers to animate his hair in such a way that he was able to use his very beard as a weapon. The dwarves of the coven he established practice this method of fighting to this day, and are renowned in dwarf communities throughout Golarion.

[Extra Anchovies]

Hm. I really like the take on white-haired witch. Not sure what you mean by the title, though. It makes sense that dwarves wouldn't like witches as much as they do clerics, or even wizards.

[Venger]

looks fine to me. if you mean "is it too silly" or something, I don't really think so, it's more dependent on how you describe it.

[Psyren]

Your write-up is literally "Dwarven witches exist, and a famous one had the White-Haired Witch archetype." I don't see what in that could be going too far at all.

[Extra Anchovies]

looks fine to me. if you mean "is it too silly" or something, I don't really think so, it's more dependent on how you describe it.

Even if it is silly, it's silly in a dwarfy kinda way, which is great. I can totally imagine competitive beard-fighting being a thing in this society.

[Karl Aegis]

So most dwarf communities know there are dwarf witches, but the individual dwarfs within the communities have no idea there are dwarf witches. How does that work? I feel like shenanigans are involved.

[Red Fel]

So most dwarf communities know there are dwarf witches, but the individual dwarfs within the communities have no idea there are dwarf witches. How does that work? I feel like shenanigans are involved.

More like "Dwarves, as a whole, are aware that Witches exist, and that Dwarves can be Witches, but refuse to acknowledge this latter fact. Dwarf Witches pretend to be other than what they are, both out of self-preservation and as a social courtesy; individual Dwarves are therefore either ignorant of their neighbors' proclivities, or willfully oblivious in order to maintain the facade. Exception: The Mighty Beardfolk, who are justly awesome." I think it's a funny and clever touch, and as Psyren points out, it doesn't really change much aside from flavor.

[Spore]

I don't see why witches should be perceived as anything else than arcane magic users that have special abilities. Heck, I've called female wizards and sorcerers witches ingame before. There is NO distinct difference between witch, wizard, sorcerer or even arcanist for that matter. Only magic users (sufficient knowledge arcane or spellcraft) would even recognize a difference.

Doubly so if the Witch focusses on positive hexes. A dwarven witch with the healing, slumber, flight, fortune and ward hexes who gets her wisdom patron spells from her Inevitable Arbiter Improved Familiar is not only a perfectly reknown and estimated member of dwarven society. Her ability to bring healing to the whole damn town if need be (without the added sermon about how cool gods are) should skyrocket her reputation through the roof.

If you go out on a limb, you can demonize a well played wizard more than a witch. A "god" wizard shuts down his enemies and makes his allies into vile murderbeasts and/or summons images of terrible demons from beyond reality to aid him in battle. What does a "shut down" witch do? Point at someone, wish them bad luck and then sends them to sleep. And guess whose enemies survive combat more often? Just have a guess. :)


The Mighty Beardfolk, who are justly awesome."

Once each generation there is one dwarf who is born with a beard and chest hair. He (or she) is the Beard-vahkin, the Beard-Born.

[Extra Anchovies]

I don't see why witches should be perceived as anything else than arcane magic users that have special abilities. Heck, I've called female wizards and sorcerers witches ingame before. There is NO distinct difference between witch, wizard, sorcerer or even arcanist for that matter. Only magic users (sufficient knowledge arcane or spellcraft) would even recognize a difference.

Doubly so if the Witch focusses on positive hexes. A dwarven witch with the healing, slumber, flight, fortune and ward hexes who gets her wisdom patron spells from her Inevitable Arbiter Improved Familiar is not only a perfectly reknown and estimated member of dwarven society. Her ability to bring healing to the whole damn town if need be (without the added sermon about how cool gods are) should skyrocket her reputation through the roof.

If you go out on a limb, you can demonize a well played wizard more than a witch. A "god" wizard shuts down his enemies and makes his allies into vile murderbeasts and/or summons images of terrible demons from beyond reality to aid him in battle. What does a "shut down" witch do? Point at someone, wish them bad luck and then sends them to sleep. And guess whose enemies survive combat more often? Just have a guess. :)

I feel like the issue dwarves would have with witches is that they serve a patron. Dwarven clerics get their power through worship of the dwarven god, and wizards/sorcerers get their power from sources that don't conflict with the worship of a deity, but a witch's devotion to a patron may be seen by most dwarves as a lack of respect for proper dwarven deities.

[Milo v3]

I don't see why witches should be perceived as anything else than arcane magic users that have special abilities. Heck, I've called female wizards and sorcerers witches ingame before. There is NO distinct difference between witch, wizard, sorcerer or even arcanist for that matter. Only magic users (sufficient knowledge arcane or spellcraft) would even recognize a difference.

This is amplified even further by the fact that Shaman, Unlettered Alchemists, Necromantic Occultists, and Spirit Whisper Wizards all use (or can use) their familiar as the origin for their magic rather than a book.

[Spore]

I feel like the issue dwarves would have with witches is that they serve a patron. Dwarven clerics get their power through worship of the dwarven god, and wizards/sorcerers get their power from sources that don't conflict with the worship of a deity, but a witch's devotion to a patron may be seen by most dwarves as a lack of respect for proper dwarven deities.

True but Dwarves are also VERY practical in nature. The question is what qualifies as patron because he should be some faction that is fleshed out. Just because the witch in my group gained her powers from a pact with a demon doesn't mean that the divines (or the inevitables in my example) or nature itself not also grant pacts for witches.

[Beowulf DW]

looks fine to me. if you mean "is it too silly" or something, I don't really think so, it's more dependent on how you describe it.

What I mean is, did I go too far in making an organization dedicated to Beardfist Fistbeard?




Once each generation there is one dwarf who is born with a beard and chest hair. He (or she) is the Beard-vahkin, the Beard-Born.

...
Mind if we use that?

[Frostthehero]

Once each generation there is one dwarf who is born with a beard and chest hair. He (or she) is the Beard-vahkin, the Beard-Born.

I really need to sig this.

[ZamielVanWeber]

What I mean is, did I go too far in making an organization dedicated to Beardfist Fistbeard?

Never. Literally never.

[Psyren]

What I mean is, did I go too far in making an organization dedicated to Beardfist Fistbeard?

Didn't that exist before the Witch was a thing though?

[Spore]

Mind if we use that?

Go ahead. Bad jokes is my forte. :)

[Beowulf DW]

Didn't that exist before the Witch was a thing though?

The organization or Beardfist? I had thought that the latter was from 3.5, not Pathfinder.

[Psyren]

The organization or Beardfist? I had thought that the latter was from 3.5, not Pathfinder.

Beardfist - and yes, that's exactly what I meant. All PF really contributed was "here's some ways to mechanically attack with your hair/beard" - but the concept itself has been around quite a while.

[The Insanity]

Why would dwarves not like Witches?