View Full Version : 20-level challenge

2007-04-23, 01:32 AM
The idea here is to obtain the ultimate in multi-classed silliness. You have 20 levels to play with, choose wisely.

The rules:
- must have 20 classes for 20 levels
- May use classes from any 3.5 edition source book
- May have any number of prestige classes, so long as all prereq.s can be met before the class is taken
- Stats at level 1 are 18/16/14/12/10/8 with a floating +1 anywhere other than the 18 (good base stats to off-set the rest)
- <edit> any race/template may be taken as long as it doesnt require a level adjustment greater than +1. (since you're effectively taking 1 level in the race instead of a class)
- <edit> only one template may be used on any one character

The goal:
A character with 20 classes that is at least marginally useful

Additional: Write up however much or little as you may want, but at least list end classes, stats, BAB, saves, and max HPs. Note: if a prestige class is taken, list the levels at which prerequisite feats are taken.

<edit> As an aside - no, Pun-Pun doesn't work for this. He takes more than one divine level. Don't even mention him from here, he has his own thread, haunt that one with any further comments/questions about him.

2007-04-23, 03:36 AM
you may want to mention something about races

Illiterate Scribe
2007-04-23, 04:00 AM
Wouldn't it be fairly easy to take only PrCs that advanced caster levels, and end up with a caster 20?

2007-04-23, 04:38 AM
You got a PrC that you can qualify for with a level 1 character? Otherwise you'll lose caster levels getting the requirements.

Emperor Tippy
2007-04-23, 05:38 AM
Let's see. Pun-Pun can be done with 1 level so I win. :biggrin:

The Gilded Duke
2007-04-23, 08:25 AM
Though it takes a while to get into, Abjurant Champion and Unseen Seer only require first level spells. Might eventually get some wizard caster levels going by jumping between all the prestige classes for them.

With Ur-Priest and then some devine prestige classes you might be able to get up to second level devine as well. Then go Mystic Theurge and every other Cleric/Wizard spell casting increase class.

2007-04-23, 11:35 AM
The problem for casters is going to be that each class will have their own spellcasting pool. There are some abilities that fix this, but not too sure.
I think this contest is going to be won by a warrior type actually.

2007-04-23, 11:56 AM
Let's see. Pun-Pun can be done with 1 level so I win. :biggrin:

Actually I'd personally rule that pun-pun fails this, on the basis of pun=pun takes more than one divine level in his progression.

2007-04-23, 12:06 PM
Pun-pun in one level? :smallconfused: Last time I've seen that it was 5th level. What obscene cheese is at work this time?

2007-04-23, 12:48 PM
A fiend of some sort who grants Wishes to anyone not of his preferred alignment in exchange for some portion of the recipient's soul, represented as an alignment shift one step towards his alignment. The DC to know about him and his Wish granting with a knowledge check is 25 IIRC, easily within reach for a level 1 character with all the rules knowledge of the Character Optimization board behind him. I'm not clear on exactly how the Wishes gained through this trick lead to Pun-pun, but that's the start of it.

2007-04-23, 01:32 PM
O.K., enough Pun-Pun. Pun-Pun is no longer to be mentioned, there is a 60 83 page thread devoted to him, so please direct other comments/questions about Pun-Pun thusly: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801

ANYHOW, enough about certain kobolds no longer to be named. any other comments? suggested adds to the rules (thanks for mentioning races, jlousivy)? actual attempts at the challenge?

2007-04-23, 01:39 PM
Ninja 20. No, seriously.

There are enough classes to make a Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Shinobi 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Shinobi 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1/Ninja 1.

A Mongrelfolk with level 1 in tons of race specific classes would rock but sadly Mongrelfolk don't quite work that way..

2007-04-23, 02:10 PM
Closet, care to post the remaining info? and if there are that many ninja classes (honestly, I wouldn't know) could you share the book from which each one hails? and if any are PrC's, you have to be able to qualify for them.

"Write up however much or little as you may want, but at least list end classes, stats, BAB, saves, and max HPs. Note: if a prestige class is taken, list the levels at which prerequisite feats are taken." - from the OP (Bold added for emphasis)

Jacob Orlove
2007-04-23, 02:29 PM
Here's a build outline. I don't have the time or the books to set it up completely, but it should get you pretty solid casting:

First four levels: meh. I don't have any great ideas here. You could start with Rogue for skill points, I guess.
Level 5: still doesn't matter what class you take, but now you can afford a Candle of Invocation. Gate in something that grants wishes, and have the first Wish sub in as a Polymorph Any Object to turn you into a Beholder. Stab out your Central Eye. Use your other two Wishes to get more Candles (if necessary), and get yourself a bunch of Eyestalk grafts.
Level 6: Beholder Mage 1. Graft more Eyestalks as necessary.
Level 7: Ur-Priest 1.
Level 8-9: boost each with a +casting PrC.
Level 10+: start taking Mystic Theurge PrCs
once you run out of those, go back to regular +spellcasting. You should be able to get 9th level arcane and divine spells by level 20 without much trouble. Honestly, you could probably fit Sublime Chord in there too, if you wanted to really work it.

2007-04-23, 02:58 PM
Candle of Invocation cheese = Evil
Polymorph Any Object cheese = So Evil that Wizards is attempting to forget the spell ever existed

Jacob Orlove
2007-04-23, 03:07 PM
Actually, I'd rank the Candle as significantly worse for the game, it's just an easier exploit to shut down because it's in the DMG.

He did ask for "the ultimate in multi-classed silliness" though, and it's hard to top Beholder Mage for that.

If this was 3.0, though, you could finish off that build with Sublime Chord, a bunch of single levels in arcane spellcasting classes, and Maho Tsukai. The interaction between Ur-Priest, Sublime Chord, and Maho Tsukai does truly bizarre things to your caster level.

2007-04-23, 07:21 PM
Is that 20 different classes though?

2007-04-23, 10:05 PM
Okay, let me try this. I think Rogue's the easiest, for the skill points. Then, maybe scout and ninja. That's three classes, and the beauty of this is that each one gives you a sneak attack-like ability, and they generally stack for the purpose of class pre-reqs. Then a level of cleric, and of ranger, then you can start on the prestige classes that have only skill, feat, and sneak attack for pre-reqs. Let's start with shadowbane stalker, which also increases the level of divine caster. After that, we may be able to manage a spell level in divine spellcasting level with every class, and reach a fairly high caster level. I'd need a lot more sourcebooks than I have to do that. And your BAB is going to be really low. But the main trick is to keep accumulating classes with lots of skill points, so you can have the prereqs in order to make the next one. You probably want to take an arcane class (beguiler for the skill points, probably), so that if you can't take a level in your divine spellcasting, you can take one in your arcane spellcasting.

2007-04-24, 12:45 AM
huzzah! finally have something like an answer! Myself, when I did this, I wound up with the following: (note: this build fails, as it uses Power Class: Fool, which is 3.0. However, I could replace that with one of the many Ninja classes or perhaps Shadowbane Stalker)

1) Rogue (sneak attack, Improved Init [feat], [open human bonus feat])
2) Swashbuckler (free Weapon Finesse)
3) Ranger (favored enemy, track, True Believer [feat])
4) Cleric [Luck and Destruction domains]
5) Incarnate [Lucky Dice and Necrocarnum Touch melded at all times]
6) Samurai (free Exotic Weapon Proficiency [note - this gets useful later], Combat Casting [feat])
7) Ardent [Conflict for free weapon focus, deception for displacement]
8) Warblade (Weapon Familiarity [suddenly the samurai gives EWP: Mercurial Greatsword, and conflict mantle gives focus in the same])
9) Fighter (Monkey Grip [feat], Power Attack [bonus feat])
10) Hexblade (Hexblade's Curse)
11) Duskblade (armored caster - light)
12) Exotic Weapon Master (Uncanny Blow or Trip Attack, Improved Critical [feat])
13) Fool (Social Pariah, Acrobatics, Pratfall) {should replace this with a 3.5 class, probably Ninja from Complete Warrior}
14) Ronin (assumes an alignment change some time after samurai, sneak attack, infamy)
15) Ghost-Faced Killer (Ghost Step)
16) Nightsong Enforcer (sneak attack, +20 to finding/hearing allies)
17) Divine Champion (Lay On Hands-like ability) {was recommended by a friend, not sure what book it's from. could someone check?}
18) Pious Templar (reduce spell effects to 0 on successful will/fort saves)
19) Warpriest (Domination domain)
20) Barbarian {needed +1 BAB. probably much better choices}

end result: max HP (not counting stamina) of 178, +15 B.A.B., f/r/w saves: 30/8/14

I forget how I allotted stats, but I believe despite free weapon finesse I went for the heavy-handed brute wielding a Huge size mercurial greatsword (monkey grip fun) with ridiculous crit chance and damage if it did crit, then used the Ghost-Faced Killer's Ghost Step to deny the enemy their dex bonus to AC and trigger the various sneak attacks.

note: this build fails because of the Fool. I should probably change it but don't have the energy atm.