Initiate of Milil and Stormsinger

[Jiruharudo]

Hey guys, could use some solid advice on another idea for a build I had thanks to you;

Deepwyrm HalfDrow lvl 12

Cloistered Cleric 9/Stormsinger 1/Seeker of the Misty Isle 1/Stormsinger 2

Domains: Knowledge (due to CC), Charm and Nobility (Milil's selection isnt grand) and Travel thanks to Seeker of Misty Isle.
(Spontaneous Domain Casting (PHB 2, p 37): Lose the ability to spontaneously cast cure spells, cast domain spells instead. Going with Travel domain for quik escapes/travel)

Feats: Your bard, cleric, and paladin levels stack for the purpose of determining which kinds of bardic music you can use (but not any other effect related to bardic music). You must still meet the Perform skill rank requirement to use various kinds of bardic music. Also add harmony, dispel silence and reveille to spelllist When you use your bardic music to inspire courage, you can choose to imbue your allies with dragonfire. This choice is made when first activating the ability, and the choice applies to all allies affected. Each ally so inspired loses the standard morale bonus on weapon attack rolls and damage rolls. Instead, he deals an extra 1d6 points of fire damage with his weapons for every point of morale bonus that your inspire courage ability would normally add to the attack roll. For example, an 8th-level bard using this ability would add 2d6 points of fire damage to his allies' attacks. Pick a number of Perform categories equal to your Intelligence bonus (minimum 1). For the purpose of making Perform checks, you are treated as having a number of ranks in those skills equal to the highest number of ranks you have in any Perform category. You cannot change these categories once you have picked them, but your score in them automatically increases if you later add additional ranks in your highestranked Perform category. You gain new categories of your choice if your Intelligence bonus permanently increases. In addition, you gain a +2 bonus on a combined Perform check when using two or more forms of performance at the same time, such as a bard strumming a lyre while singing. In such cases, add the bonus to the higher of your two Perform skill modifiers. An extended spell lasts twice as long as normal. A spell with a duration of concentration, instantaneous, or permanent is not affected by this feat. An extended spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.and Magical Aptitude, Storm Magic (cause I need them..)

Items: Vest of legends, Badge of Valor, Light/medium armor (no idea which one) Ring of Thunderclaps, Winged boots of dexterity + 4, Cloak of charisma +4, Periapt of Wisdom +4, A custom item: Bracers that allow me to cast Whirling Blade at will. A Keen Greatsword with a Lesser crystal of return. Items that make me immuneish to sonic damage, like Crystal of Sonic Protection Greater
(Looked at Raiment of the stormwalker for flavor reasons, but doesn't seem worth it)

Playstyle: Either inspire in the back while casting spells, throw an "inspirered" greatsword in a 60ft line at folk, or zap them with performskills, being able to roll 2 times and picking the best result due to Versatile Performer.

Pro's: Full Cleric caster, with bardic inspiration skills. Thanks to the Seeker of the Misty Isle Ill be able to teleport my party around and have martial weapons and medium armor. Able to damage people with my perform skills and semi controlling the weather.

Con's: Poor Bab, but solvable with divine might, bit of MAD keeping CHA & WIS up, bit of skill and feat investing.

Flavor: Play a foundling who was raised at a Temple of knowledge of Milil. Hidden away in the back because of his heritage for a long time with musical instruments and books. Then he sets off to explore the world, boarding a vessel where he learned from a Stomsinger, and setting sights trying to find the misty ilse in Milil's name for fame and glory. Helping sailors and tryin to find adventure for stories as he goes.

Stormsinger is from frostburn, a book that's not in the selection of my DM, but it's droppable I supose.

Idea's, comments, witticisms?

[Nihilarian]

By strict reading I don't think Initiate of Milil or Stormsinger advance your Inspire Courage bonus.

[Jiruharudo]

It is kinda tricky, but I think you get one time useage of inspire courage from the Initate of milil, but at a +2 at lvl 8.

And Stormsinger doesnt advance Inspire courage but gives me more more bardic musics?

Maybe I should use this feat to make up for that loss..

You can use your bardic music four extra times per day.

[Saintheart]

It is kinda tricky, but I think you get one time useage of inspire courage from the Initate of milil, but at a +2 at lvl 8.

Nah, I read that feat the same as Nihilarian: it says it allows your levels to stack for what types of bardic music you can use, but it doesn't advance their effectiveness. The text on bard says that the Inspire Courage advances to a +2 at level 8, it doesn't grant you a new kind of bardic music.

I'd go a bit further and suggest that you need a level of bard in there. Initiate of Milil doesn't give you the ability to use bardic music outright, it just says your levels stack for determining the kinds you can use, i.e. you still need a level of bard in there so you can use bardic music at all. Stormsinger also requires it: the intro text on the PrC says that all Stormsingers have at least some small training as a bard, and it too says that its levels stack with "any levels in bard" for the purpose of number of uses per day.

[torrasque666]

Nah, I read that feat the same as Nihilarian: it says it allows your levels to stack for what types of bardic music you can use, but it doesn't advance their effectiveness. The text on bard says that the Inspire Courage advances to a +2 at level 8, it doesn't grant you a new kind of bardic music.

I'd go a bit further and suggest that you need a level of bard in there. Initiate of Milil doesn't give you the ability to use bardic music outright, it just says your levels stack for determining the kinds you can use, i.e. you still need a level of bard in there so you can use bardic music at all. Stormsinger also requires it: the intro text on the PrC says that all Stormsingers have at least some small training as a bard, and it too says that its levels stack with "any levels in bard" for the purpose of number of uses per day.

Agreeing with you, but for a slightly different reasoning. If Initiate of Milil doesn't give the bardic music class feature, just defining which types you can play if you can play at all, then the bard level is necessary for the Special Requirement.

[Lathund]

Other than Stormsinger, are there any prestige classes that gives extra uses of bardic music and advance divine spellcasting?

[Saintheart]

Other than Stormsinger, are there any prestige classes that gives extra uses of bardic music and advance divine spellcasting?

From memory, Fochlucan Lyrist does.

[Jiruharudo]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Odd, I figured it would work like the "Evangelist" class from Complete Devine) would.
It has no inspire courage progression, but in the example it seems to work like a charm.
Great Orator (Su): An evangelist can inspire, protect, and otherwise improve the situation of his allies simply by speaking clearly and being heard. This ability is similar to the bard's bardic music ability (see page 29 of the Player's Handbook for a complete description) and, indeed, evangelist levels stack with bard levels to determine the strength of known bard songs. For example, a bard 3/evangelist 5 improves his inspire competence ability, but does not gain any new bard abilities. He could use bardic music to convert the unfaithful, countersong, fascinate, inspire the righteous, inspire courage +2, inspire dread or inspire hope, but would not gain the inspire competence, inspire greatness, or suggestion abilities. Alternately, a bard 7/evangelist 1 would be able to use bardic music to countersong, fascinate, inspire competence, inspire courage +2, inspire dread or inspire hope, and suggestion. Evangelist oratory abilities function in exactly the same manner as bardic music except the evangelist must speak loudly and clearly, rather than sing or play an instrument.

I will admit this build may need a dip in bard, or bardic class with inspire courage, and the build can still take that hit I feel turning to Bard 1, Cloistered Cleric 8/Stormsinger 1/Seeker of the Misty Isle 1/Stormsinger 2 ish. Still this feels a little ..messy and less straitforward somehow.

There are quite a few spell progression PrC's actually

Evangelist works, but also troubadourof-stars, but you'd lose a spelllevel also look at the List of Stuff

Bardic Music - (any prestige that grants bardic music also stacks with bard levels for number of uses per day)
Bard
Presitige Bard 1, UA
Virtuoso 1, ecl 8, Complete Adventurer
Fochlucan Lyrist 1, ecl 11, Complete Adventurer
Dragonsong Lyrist 1, ecl 8, Draconomicon, functions like bardic music but different name, does not stack
Warrior Skald 1, ecl 6, Races of Faerun
Spellsinger 1, ecl 6, Races of Faerun
Troubadour of Stars 1, ecl ?, Book of Exalted Deeds


stacks for bardic music uses per day
Seeker of the Song, ecl 11, Complete Arcane
Sublime Chord, ecl 11, Complete Arcane, add only half level
Fochlucan Lyrist , ecl 11, Complete Adventurer
War Chanter, ecl 6 (maybe 5), Complete Warrior
Dawncaller, ecl 7, Races of Stone
Dirgesinger, ecl 6, Libris Mortis
Stormsinger, ecl 6, Frostburn
Lyric Thaumaturge, ecl 7, Complete Mage


special mention
Extra Music, feat, Complete Adventurer, 4 extra uses
Harmonius Knight paladin sub level (Champion of Valor; web enhancement) grants inspire courage, but not as a bardic ability
Initiate of Milil, feat, Champions of Valor, lets you stack bard/cleric/paladin levels to determine what kind of music you have
Initiate of Hlal, feat, Dragon Magic, gain one additional use of bardic music if you already have it
Divine Prankster, ecl 6, Races of Stone, uses bardic music to fuel "Comedic Performance" which has effects similar to bardic music
The Artist, regional feat, Player's Guide to Faerun, 3 extra bardic music uses
Evangelist, ecl 6, Complete Divine, stacks for strength of bard songs, see text

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?296466-Bardic-Music-for-non-Bards#ixzz3boiZr82Z

Anyone wanna help me out with this? Goal being a cleric that can inspire and teleport, skillmonkey for bonus points!

[Saintheart]

I can't really give you a full account, only bits and pieces.

First up is, as far as light or medium armor is concerned, I've seen good results from the Ectoplasmic Skin of Armour from the MIC. Gives you the armor bonus of full plate but is considered light armor for pretty much all other purposes, including spellcasting -- i.e. no arcane spell failure chance for your bard spells -- and can be donned as a standard action.

Whirling Blade's a Bard 2 spell. That means four levels in Bard, or you need to find a PrC that advances bard spellcasting. 3 levels in Stormsinger plus 1 in Bard could get you there, obviously, but it means you're stopping at 4th level divine spells -- putting out substandard Inspire Courage results, casting 2nd level Bard spells and 4th level Cleric spells -- when your character level is 13 and the specialised wizards and clerics of the party are busting out 7th level spells. Added to that, Whirling Blade keys off INT for its attack, so using that as a frequent battle tactic is going to make you a little MAD: high CHA for Perform checks, high WIS for cleric spells, high INT for that spell.

(PS: If you want to Performsplat opponents, consider the combination of the fourth-level bard spells Sirine's Grace and Fugue. Or consider Sculpt Spell for Whirling Blade.)

Pretty sure someone'll come along and construct a brilliant build that puts all of the above to shame, but the problem to me seems to be that you're trying to generalise a bit too much, in a game where specialisation and caster levels are king. Cleric is a good class to do more than one thing, but its versatility comes from sticking fundamentally to cleric and cleric-related PrCs. Bard is a brilliant class at buffing (Words of Creation, Dragonfire Inspiration) and passable at melee (Snowflake Wardance + Slippers of Battledancing) if you build it right, but it's not terribly good at intersecting with divine magic. Even most of its devoted PrCs -- Virtuoso, etc -- progressively neglect the bardic aspects of the class and focus more and more on being an arcane caster.

The real question is: what do you fundamentally want to do as your biggest strength, and what do you want to do as a distant second?

[Lathund]

I think the Cleric part is going to be the hardest part of it all. Maybe a conjurer/prestige bard is your best chance, although the BAB requirement is going to be annoying. Or just straight up bard; they get several teleportation spells as well. Seeker of the Misty Isle would be off the table though, but the Travel domain in and of itself isn't going to help you too much.

[Jiruharudo]

Whirling Blade should also work for CHA with cha spell casters, is why I really like this spell. :)

Sirine's Grace is a great spell to be sure, it wouldn't work too well with my Cloak of charisma +4, but its a great spell either way for the AC en DEX bonus and the +8 bonus on Perform checks is the cherry! Thanks for that.

I think Seeker of the Misty Ilse could still work if Im going Divine bard, but why invoke the MAD if Im going Bard again..

Also, I took travel with the spontaneous domain so I could teleport when it was needed ..this will no longer be needed if I can't go Cleric.

I dont recall Bard having that many TP spells, and bard amount of spells is disappointingly low.. ( and yes, Im WELL aware of Sublime chord which I am playing now. :))

[Jiruharudo]

In any case, if I'd go:

Cloistered C. 4, Stormsinger 7, Seeker of the M 1, (Or Bard 1, Cloistered C. 4, Stormsinger 6, Seeker of the M 1 if Bard is req..) then use badge of valor, inspirational boost/harmony & Vest of Legends I'd still have 5 on my inspire, no?

5d6 and full on spellcasting isnt optimal bard, but does grant a lot of versatility, I feel.

[Jiruharudo]

Does silence mean approval or no intrest? :x

[Saintheart]

...haven't had a chance to look into it, to be honest.

That said, I came across a PrC in the past day or so that might be of interest to you: Heartfire Fanner (http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/general/heartfirefanner.shtml). Dragon #314. Could well get you over some of your lost levels in clerc given one level in it: become a fifth-level bard from the first moment in the class, get all bardic music forms available at once. And the ability to grant someone bonus feats from the fighter feat or empower your spellcasters is kind of nice, to say the least.

As to the IC calculations you've already done:
Bard 1: +1
Badge of Valor: +1
Inspirational Boost: +1
Vest of Legends: adds 5 effective levels to your bardic music. This doesn't raise your IC bonuses unless you happen to considered or at Bard 3 already, because you only get a boost to IC at Bard 8.
Stormsinger 6: I'm AFB and can't remember whether Stormsinger stacks your class levels with bard for the purposes of determining the effective bonus for IC. (I know it stacks for the purposes of determining number of uses per day).

Let's assume it doesn't for this exercise, but if it does that'd make you effective Bard 7. Seeker of the Misty Isle I'm leaving aside completely, again because I can't remember how it works off the top of my head.

With all of those assumptions, your IC would be at +3.

Quick ways to remedy that: Words of Creation, though it'll have annoying prerequisites. It doubles your base IC, i.e. it raises that there Bard 1: +1 to a Bard 1: +2, and everything stacks on that.
Song of the Heart: +1 to IC.
Masterwork Lute: I think this adds +1 to effective bard level for IC purposes, thus making it only useful when you're a Bard 7 and would like to be considered a Bard 8, but there we go.

[Jiruharudo]

Hey Saintheart,

True, the Hearthfire is a great PrC. Sadly, my DM doesnt allow the Dragon mags..
Still it would've worked like a charm! So thanks for that. :)

True, I supose Vest of Legends doesnt work in RAW sadly, so I'd do 3 IC when fully buffed. Not too good I supose, but better then nothing.

Song of the Heart is something i could make puppy eyes to my DM, but 2 feats for 2 IC seems like an investment I shouldnt make..

Thanks for your advise, I just realised you had a topic about the stormsinger (I think) aswell which got me started on this. :P

[A.A.King]

Other than Stormsinger, are there any prestige classes that gives extra uses of bardic music and advance divine spellcasting?

Yes, Divine Prankster from Race of Stone does. You have to be a Gnome worshipping Garl Glittergold, but your Divine Prankster Levels explicitly stack with Bard levels for your Inspire Courage Bonus.

[Jiruharudo]

Haha, yeah The Divine prankster is pretty cool and the tish does state: Adaptation
The divine prankster prestige class combines features of both the bard and the cleric, allowing a multiclass bard/cleric to be as effective as his single-class counterparts. With slight changes, the class is suitable for nongnome PCs, especially clerics who worship deities of trickery or humor.

Doesnt it only grant one ic though? And im not sure if I can quip a funny joke every time ..nor if it fits the theme I had in mind.

Still, thanks for the imput. :)

[A.A.King]

As long as you have at least one level of Bard before going into Divine Prankster than you can get more than +1 BAB

However, if a divine prankster already has this ability from another class (such as from bard levels), add together his class levels from all classes that grant this ability and compare the total to Table 3—4: The Bard on page 27 of the Player's Handbook to determine the morale bonus granted by this ability. For example, a 2nd-level bard/3rd-level cleric/6th-level divine prankster would grant a +2 morale bonus on the appropriate rolls.

Also, it never says it has to be a funny joke, it just has to be a good. Print out a list of "A Human, a Dwarf and an Elf walk in to a bar" kind of jokes and used a new one every time you want to use IC :P
Though if the theme doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Haha, yeah The Divine prankster is pretty cool and the tish does state: Adaptation
The divine prankster prestige class combines features of both the bard and the cleric, allowing a multiclass bard/cleric to be as effective as his single-class counterparts. With slight changes, the class is suitable for nongnome PCs, especially clerics who worship deities of trickery or humor.)

A warning about adaptations: they are not completed classes that you, as the player, are meant to freely use. They are suggestions on how the DM can change up the class if he so desires. You should talk to your DM before trying to use an adaptation.

[Jiruharudo]

Oh the BAB shouldnt be a problem no, sorry if I was unclear about that.
But does inspire Courage gain more levels as you gain levels with Divine Prankster?
Because Im not seeing in the text that it does, just that you may add other Inspire Courage to this class.

For instance the class Evangelist does actually state that it DOES grow in power:
a bard 3/evangelist 5 improves his inspire competence ability, but does not gain any new bard abilities. He could use bardic music to convert the unfaithful, countersong, fascinate, inspire the righteous, inspire courage +2, inspire dread or inspire hope, but would not gain the inspire competence, inspire greatness, or suggestion abilities. Alternately, a bard 7/evangelist 1 would be able to use bardic music to countersong, fascinate, inspire competence, inspire courage +2, inspire dread or inspire hope, and suggestion. Evangelist oratory abilities function in exactly the same manner as bardic music except the evangelist must speak loudly and clearly, rather than sing or play an instrument.

And indeed Zamiel, I would never asume I can do whatever on my DM's watch. ;)

[A.A.King]

The bit I put in cursive is a quote from the Divine Prankster. If you have for example 2 bard levels and 6 Divine prankster levels, you count as a Bard 8 and Inspire Courage accordingly

[Jiruharudo]

Oh dang, sorry King. You are totally right, excellent!

That does make it more useable..