Evil clown: Looking for several ways to form crunch after flavor.

[Spore]

Greetings playground,

I always wanted to play the trope of evil clown but I want him or her to be just openly a bit weird.

Let me just write a bit of flavor text:

Harlequin was always as amusing as he was magical. He performed card tricks and magic tricks to entertain young and old. Behind his monochromatic black and white masquerade there is always a bright grin. Only the most perceiving people see the physical and mental scars he hides behind his mask of happiness and tomfoolery.

He doesn't want anyone to feel inferior or unhappy. People should be happy; or dead. There were no pouting or unruly children in his shows. Where he performs unhappy faces vanish. One way or another. This is also the reason why he is constantly on the move. After some time people start seeing behind his facade, find the dead bodies or start miss their friends, their elderly, their children.

For the crunch I want him to be bard-ish but not quite. Sorcerer would be absolutely fine as is Bard or Summoner but I can't really decide (Witch is even a distinct possiblity). Bonus points for any build that can fool my players into thinking I took Bard. I am keen on collecting several concepts crunchwise so I can fit the hypothetical character into different roles depending on the group. Mundanes such as Rogue or Slayer are also entirely possible (but will only be picked if the whole group doesnt go over bardic spell progression).

Let your ideas flow.

[avr]

Simplest: sorcerer with the Maestro bloodline. Suggestion can get people to where they shall die, full sorc. casting can kill people so many ways it's not funny. Gets a Fascinate ability based off the bard fascinate performance.

First world summoner. It's not him that kills the weeping children, it's his unseelie mistress. And the gremlins she insists he summons, of course. Not amazingly bardic, true.

A lore oracle could imitate the bardic knowledge shtick easily. The possessed oracle archetype gives spells better suited to his assassinations and looks appropriate.

[Extra Anchovies]

What sort of evil clown are you going for? Do you want a clown who thinks that causing pain or suffering is funny? Or are you going for a clown who hides behind the facade of a harmless buffoon only to sometimes drop the act, pull out an axe, and start hacking people up?

[Spore]

It's not him that kills the weeping children, it's his unseelie mistress. And the gremlins she insists he summons, of course..

PC: "Oh, I don't like killing children. It's terrifying."
Interrogator: "Then why are you doing it?"
PC: "The creature in my head is telling me too."
[comedic pause]
Interrogator: "Terrific."


Simplest: sorcerer with the Maestro bloodline. Suggestion can get people to where they shall die, full sorc. casting can kill people so many ways it's not funny. Gets a Fascinate ability based off the bard fascinate performance.

The sorcerer chassis is very very solid but the bloodline is ... lacking.

Beguiling voice needs a bit of metagaming (counting hit dice) to be effective and not a wasted turn and there are better ways to make a unknowing grump not react to the knife or spell that is about to kill him. Like a simple Charm Person spell.

Fascinate is great distraction in order for a group to sneak by or get into position. But if that is the whole selling point of the bloodline, I'm not convinced.

Perfect Voice makes Linguistics and additional languages almost useless but you need them in order to take advantage of Beguiling voice from first level onwards. Retraining is an option but I feel my DMs are not fine with someone actually retraining languages.

Inspire: A 6th level spell as SLA once per day on 15? I would rather have Heroism at will. Or SOMETHING that isn't overshadowed by the spell list and the ludicrous amount of spell slots the sorcerer has.

In sum, I am very willing to submit part of my fluff to make room for another bloodline if those powers are actually worthwhile. I'm not playing a certain bloodline for power but I dislike having entire features never being used.


A lore oracle could imitate the bardic knowledge shtick easily. The possessed oracle archetype gives spells better suited to his assassinations and looks appropriate.

After playing two oracles myself I am kind of bored of the class. Plus I kind of want an arcane caster for once.


What sort of evil clown are you going for? Do you want a clown who thinks that causing pain or suffering is funny? Or are you going for a clown who hides behind the facade of a harmless buffoon only to sometimes drop the act, pull out an axe, and start hacking people up?

I want to go for the relatable mental illness. He thinks a world without happiness isn't worth living in. And unhappy people do not deserve to live.

[Laughingmanlol]

The Magus Card Caster archtype could fit, attacking and delivering spells through harrow cards, though I imagine it's more of a challenge to optimise than a melee magus, and the limited spell list might hinder the theme.
The Witch Cartomancer archtype seems more practical, (even if you need a spare deck for when you're not delivering touch spells) and a trickery patron could fit the theme well. Some of the hexes also seem promising - Charm and Cackle to make friends easily, Child-scent to find any unruly children, I doubt the character would have any issues with cooking their victims, Harrowing Curse seems flavourful, and Delicious Fright would add to the fear aspect.
A Bard's Deadly Performance seems closest to your concept. THere's a few emotion spells that work, too, like Waves of Ectasy, Haze of Dreams, and Euphoric Tranquility. I can't think of many archtypes that help, though. Juggler with Arcane Strike and Card Caster?
Inquisitor might work, using Discern Lies to ask if a potential victim is happy, then Bane if they aren't. There's yet another harrow archetype, the Suit Seeker, too. There aren't any suitable inquisitions, though, so you might have to go for the Luck or Trickery domain powers.

[YeaCatnipHulk]

There is a prestige class called an Evangelist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/evangelist). They are granted a whole bunch of bonuses to converting others to their faith and because it's a prestige class you can start off as an Inquisitor or a Paladin and then work your way up to the requirements of the Evangelist.

[Spore]

I almost forgot: Which concept can fit in as much coulrophobic imagery? I am not fearing clowns directly but I have been giving a horrific clown faced music box that played a scary sad melody. In addition I find circus clowns ranging from weird to mentally challenged but not funny.

Maybe a summoner (or shadow dancer, or both) would be the best course of action. Having a shadow (incorporeal dark clone with inverted colors) or a dark clown figure as your summon could crank up the creepy factor to 11. :)

[Uhtred]

Doesn't the Jester, from Dragon Compendium, do pretty much what you're looking for? It's basically a bard but based around comedy and comedic performance rather than shredding sweet metal riffs into the sunset with an explosion behind you.

[Hazrond]

Doesn't the Jester, from Dragon Compendium, do pretty much what you're looking for? It's basically a bard but based around comedy and comedic performance rather than shredding sweet metal riffs into the sunset with an explosion behind you.

It never got any support though sadly, plus this is a pathfinder thread, and im not even sure if 3.5 stuff is even allowed

[Psyren]

You could probably use archetypes to make a Jester/Clown anyway. Juggler or Street Performer or something.

[NightbringerGGZ]

The bard Juggler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/juggler-bard-archetype) archetype would let you actually juggle multiple thrown weapons. If you want to go for a thrown-weapon build with your character it would work well.

I would also take a look at the new Mesmerist class coming out, especially since the book release will be very soon. I think this class fits your theme quite well.

[Geddy2112]

He thinks a world without happiness isn't worth living in. And unhappy people do not deserve to live.

A fey bloodline sorcerer fits the bill fairly well. You are so prone to happiness and joy the only other option is to kill them. Because you get mad when people are not happy...you also get a +2 to compulsion spells(which you will be using often) and if you stack spell focus/greater you get a +4 to some of the nastiest spells in the game, and the ones you are looking for. Your 1st level ability is to literally make people laugh by touching them, so also good. Rakshasa and Infernal bloodlines are also damn fine manipulators and have plenty of ways to enhance your lies/diplomacy.

Faking being a bard is going to require some major string pulling depending on how much the players/characters know about bards. If you variant multiclass, you can have knowledge at level 3, and inspire courage/competence at level 7. Without that or if you cannot wait, the feat breadth of experience(dwarf, gnome or elf only) will allow you to make knowledge checks untrained and get a +2, cosmopolitan gives you 2 skills as class skills(probably a perform and diplomacy to be extra bardlike) and 2 languages, also helping pull off the deception. You can always describe your spellcasting as being silly, or use acrobatics and other things to dance around combat. Or maybe you are really bad at diplomacy because you always tell off color jokes at the wrong time...

[Spore]

Or maybe you are really bad at diplomacy because you always tell off color jokes at the wrong time...

This I don't even have to train for. I might even use one of my darker shades of black humor to fuel the ingame jokes: Like telling a mother who recently lost her child some of the blender-baby-jokes. And he would be great at Diplomacy, if he cared about it. His jokes are tailor-made to make people feel mad sometimes. I might switch it up SAW-like. I'll tell people they die if they don't laugh and continue to make the most hurtful jokes ever. Or would that be Intimidation?


Rakshasa and Infernal bloodlines are also damn fine manipulators and have plenty of ways to enhance your lies/diplomacy.

Both are choices which also came up for me.

[Molosse]

Perhaps the following would work for a, uh, Darkest Dungeon style Jester, which seems to be the style you're going for.

Either:
1-5 levels of a Court-Bard Bard (VMC Rogue) into Shadowdancer
1-5 levels of a Sandman Bard into Shadowdancer
1-7 levels of a Sandman Bard (VMC Rogue) into Arcane Trickster

The first works more the notion of an actual Jester who supplements his word-play with living shadows and some SA at higher levels.

The second supplies more feats, lacking a VMC, while still supplying some SA synergy with your living Shadow

The third utilizes the VMC Rogue and the Sandman Bard level 5 to grab 2D6 SA at level 7, allows the Bard to continue to gain spellcasting levels with Arcane Trickster and, with the VMC Rogue and the Sandman Bard, provides a near comprehensive Rogue experience without having to actually play a Rogue. However one negative is that both the Sandman and VMC Rogue gain Trap Sense at level 3, however since they stack and the Rogue VMC continues to advance this is less of an issue then one would imagine.

In the end the third option will have full Bardic spellcasting, 9D6 SA when you finish Arcane Trickster and Uncanny Dodge with Evasion by the same time.

[Spore]

1-5 levels of a Court-Bard Bard (VMC Rogue) into Shadowdancer
1-5 levels of a Sandman Bard into Shadowdancer
1-7 levels of a Sandman Bard (VMC Rogue) into Arcane Trickster


These are decent and adapted themselves greatly to different powerlevels.

[Glimmer]

If your DM doesn't mind homebrew this beguiler conversion (http://bit.ly/1JLAnbu) could fit that character really well.

[Platymus Pus]

Are you actually a multiversal spiderdemon(?) that eats children's souls?

[Spore]

Are you actually a multiversal spiderdemon(?) that eats children's souls?

I do require a link to understand that one.

[kalasulmar]

I do require a link to understand that one.

Pennywise, the penultimate murder-clown-arachnid.

[Spore]

Pennywise, the penultimate murder-clown-arachnid.

I've only seen some clips on YT. I didn't realize he is a spiderdemon :)

[Psyren]

Pennywise, the penultimate murder-clown-arachnid.

"Penultimate?" Are they only making one more after him and then none after that? :smalltongue:

(Did you perhaps mean "consummate?")

[kalasulmar]

Since the remake of It might be falling apart, I may need to edit my post.