Zinc Saucier XXXI: Dragonfire Adept

[Sian]

Welcome one and all to the thirty-first Zinc Saucier challenge, where Playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful) builds, summoning a savory dish of superb swordplay and sublime sorcery.

The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the Secret Ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

For the thirty-first challenge, get ready to channel the power of the dragons with the best of them, straight from Dragon Magic, it's the Dragonfire Adept

Our challengers will have about 3 weeks to build a complete build up to Effective Character Level 20 using a 32 point buy and all official WOTC D&D 3.5 materials (excluding Dragon Magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Dragonfire Adept without actually using any levels in it.

Entries must be submitted by Sunday, 16:00pm UTC, 21 June, 2015. As usual, please submit your entries via private message to the chairman, so as not to influence the other sauciers.

Judges will then have until Sunday, 16:00pm UTC, 5 July, 2015, to post scores for all dishes.

Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 4 categories;

* Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
* Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
* Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
* Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)

Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

Recommended style:NAME OF ENTRY


Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities



Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.

Sauciers may submit as many builds as they want but please don't use Leadership, as we don't want to overfeed the judges.

Previous challenges;
Soulknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225187)
Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229736)
Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233749)
Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239294)
Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243627)
Warlock (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247169)
Paladin * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252932)
Warblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256004)
Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259654)
Ninja * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263278)
Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265347)
True Necromancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276267)
Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280212)
Whisperknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=285337)
Epic Infiltrator * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289233)
Master of Vipers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295287)
Ranger * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=298478)
Flayerspawn Psychic (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16076729#post16076729)
Totemist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16448992#post16448992)
Walker in the Waste (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322436)
Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16879574#post16879574)
Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=333648)
Duskblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=339182)
Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346900)
Argent Fist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=353923)
Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360816)
Artificier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365391)
Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370235)
Spellthief (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377945)
Factorum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=386586) no cooks submitted


* Classes marked with an asterisk have had their original posts updated to reflect the final results.

This competition is inspired by the Playground Iron Chef Competitions and uses mostly identical rules.

[Sian]

A few administrative notes:

Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt and generic classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, may lose you points. Please note the following: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.

Concerning Experience Requirements: Each build is allotted exactly 200,000 EXP. This is roughly 10,000 EXP more than necessary to get to 20th level. Please take note of this when planning your character for circumstances like LA Buyoff, Item Crafting, Magic Use, Multiclassing EXP Penalties, etc.

Definition of Power for scoring: Since this has been a point of contention, let me lay down this guideline. Since the goal is to emulate the Secret Ingredient, achieving much higher power than the Secret Ingredient is capable of is overkill and should be marked accordingly. Likewise if the build cannot match the power of the Secret Ingredient it should be marked accordingly. Individual judges can decide how much is too much for Power scoring, as each judge will have different tastes. The goal here is to prevent all entries being Wizard 20 because "they do it better."

What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is illegal by the RAW, the judge may give a 0 or decline to score a given entry. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes, but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Variant class features and variant character classes are espressly permitted. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; even now that its me that is Chairing, its still extended to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines are ripe for abuse, and will be discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while I am chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

How the heck do I even do this? Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to select a combination of race, templates, classes, alternate class features, prestige classes, skills, and feats, meld them into a single character that progresses from ECL 1 to ECL 20, that is as close as possible to the secret ingredient as possible in look, feel, class features. How you do it is up to you, I recommend you read previous competitions if you are interested in seeing how others have done it before you. Capture the essence!

Weren't it dysprosium that ran this? Yes, he ran it but after Factorum and the lack of cooks for that he ran dry, and it was laid to rest, but i still think that theres enough to come after in terms of interesting classes to emulated so i've gotten premission to resurrect the 'series'

A thread for your amusement/edification: Handy Tips for the Iron Chef in the Playground Noob (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287603)

[dysprosium]

I'm glad to see this come back.

Hopefully I will be able to participate one way on another. Since I had been running these I couldn't really enter.

I got my start with these contests back in Zinc Saucier XII.

[mabriss lethe]

I may try to cook something up for this one, I have an idea. Whether work/home life will permit me to flesh it out is another tale all together.

[DeAnno]

I think I might actually be down for this.

[Curmudgeon]

Iron Chef has introduced a rules change you might want to pick up. Official updates to allowed material, even in otherwise disallowed sources, are required. That means the Oriental Adventures 3.5 revision in Dragon # 318 and the Dragonspawn update in Bestiary of Krynn, Revised are necessary. (My entry in Zinc Saucier XVII used a 3.0 creature because the 3.5 update wasn't allowed. The judge commented "... I also know that you are taking a 3.0 advantage that due to rules protects you from the errata that would not let you start off so powerfully".)

[Sian]

yeah, 'cause a mention from a judge 14 rounds ago is certainly the most important reason :smallwink: I'm considering bringing over that change, but i'd probably wait till next round to make a decision on it.

[samduke]

oh something interesting I will have to see what to do

[Sian]

well... first entry is in the box, so at the very least the revival aren't a complete fizzle :smallbiggrin:

[dysprosium]

Well it's one more than Round XXX had! :smalleek:

In other news I think I have an idea for this one coming together.

[Segev]

Hm. This is a tricky one. There's at least one semi-obvious path, so I might go that way if I can't find a better one.

[SinsI]

Iron Chef has introduced a rules change you might want to pick up. Official updates to allowed material, even in otherwise disallowed sources, are required. That means the Oriental Adventures 3.5 revision in Dragon # 318 and the Dragonspawn update in Bestiary of Krynn, Revised are necessary. (My entry in Zinc Saucier XVII used a 3.0 creature because the 3.5 update wasn't allowed. The judge commented "... I also know that you are taking a 3.0 advantage that due to rules protects you from the errata that would not let you start off so powerfully".)
Does this mean that whenever you find something interesting in 3.0 material you would have to pile through 318+ issues of Dragon magazine to see whether it was updated or not?
That... Somehow doesn't make me happy.

[Curmudgeon]

Does this mean that whenever you find something interesting in 3.0 material you would have to pile through 318+ issues of Dragon magazine to see whether it was updated or not?
That... Somehow doesn't make me happy.
It works the same without Dragon magazine: if you find something interesting in 3.0 material you would have to pile through 10,000+ pages of 3.5 supplements to see whether it was updated or not.

Practically speaking, you use the various indices to look for any updates. You use the Consolidated Lists (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/lists) for WotC books, and you use DragonDex (http://www.aeolia.net/dragondex/index.html) for Dragon magazine.

[dysprosium]

To be fair though I think the only official 3.5 update in a Dragon magazine was the Oriental Adventures update in 318.

[Sian]

Hows it cooking in the respective kitchens?

[dysprosium]

Wow. I am really rusty at this. :smallfrown:

[Sian]

*pats Dysprosium*

You're having a hard time getting anywhere with it? ... you still have some 90some hours to go :smallwink:

[WhamBamSam]

I have the basis of an idea. I should really try to find the time to hammer out the details before the deadline.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I will judge! Yay judging!

[Sian]

bit shy of 48 hours to go, still only one submission... Is the class feeling difficult to emulate?

[dysprosium]

For me it's a little of Column A (hard to emulate without being obvious) and a little of Column B (being rusty at finding emulations).

I can't say with confidence that I will be able to get an entry in on time. :smallfrown:

[ZamielVanWeber]

Only the original iron chef seems to be doing well these days. If necessary I can still judge the one entry.

[dysprosium]

And even IC's participation is down from a year ago.

[Curmudgeon]

Only the original iron chef seems to be doing well these days. If necessary I can still judge the one entry.
I wouldn't say IC is doing well, given that there has only been 1 judge each of the last 3 rounds, and 2 of those have run over the time just to get that one judging in.

[Segev]

I'll try to get an entry together; I just haven't had both energy and time at the same time.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I wouldn't say IC is doing well, given that there has only been 1 judge each of the last 3 rounds, and 2 of those have run over the time just to get that one judging in.
i'd offer but I am always worried that my optimization skills aren't good enough to judge fairly. Judging ZS is a bit more artistic, at least in my eyes.

[Sian]

I guess its a question if you prefer or feel most comfortable with taking something and making it as good as possible, or if you prefer to get as close to a target as possible

[Sian]

The deadline has passed, but as I only got one entry, i'm going to let it run for a bit longer, are those who have mentioned completing as well (Dysprosium, WhamBamSam, Segev), close enough for it only being a day or two, or should it run for another week (although then i'll probably let the judging go for 3 weeks as well in an attempt of detach from the same scheulde as Iron Chef)

[Segev]

Unfortunately, if I have time to do it at all, it'd take another week. Do not wait on me, as despite wanting to, I cannot promise I have time. Real life keeps making...demands.

[samduke]

so are we waiting on more entries or judges or what?

[Segev]

We need more entries.

[Sian]

got a grand total of 1 entry, and would like at the very least one or two more...

updated the time in the OP to show that i'll accept entries for another week

[dysprosium]

The extra week should allow me the extra time to get something together.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The extra week should allow me the extra time to get something together.

Yay!

Also if you are ever short a judge PM me if I have not yet volunteered.

[dysprosium]

So I got my Iron Chef entry in. Now it is off to get my Zinc Saucier entry in.

[samduke]

So I got my Iron Chef entry in. Now it is off to get my Zinc Saucier entry in.

so wondering with the other stated interest's, if there will be an extra extra week...

[Sian]

i'm not quite sure i promprehend? ... might just be that i've been awake for 30some hours, but still...

[Sian]

How much longer do you except to need Dys?

Going to stall the reveil untill i have at least 1 more Dish so there actually is something to judge against each other

Any ideas for which Class should be next which wouldn't be as 'difficult'?

[dysprosium]

I should have my entry in by tonight.

I could technically send it right now but there are lots of blanks that need filling in tablewise.

[dysprosium]

I apologize for double post madness but I got my entry in.

My entry is the one that emulates Dragonfire Adept . . .

[Sian]

thanks ... As it seems there is no other builds in the pipeline (Segev mentioned that he wanted to but wouldn't have the time due to RL), I'm going to post them now. Please stay from jumping the *Post* Button

[Sian]

Unemployment is not fun, nowadays you'd have to look for all kinds of work and not just what you're best at.


Adam Ferel

CN: Human: Warlock 8/Binder 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Warlock +8

Character Background

Background
Adam Ferel is my name, I am just fresh from training and looking for work.
Employment with your organization is desirable, What do I have to offer you ask? Simple I state..
Need a offisive caster to blast those pesky monsters back to where they came from, I can do that
Need somone who can read the mind of the merchant before making a deal, I can do that
Need somone who can fight & defend thelselves & others in the party, I can do that
With my talents, intelect & charisma you would not go wrong in selecting me as an employee with-in your organization


Abilities

Abilities
Human

Alignment: CN
Deity: Garagos

Str 12 Dex 10 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 16

l04 Int +1
l08 Int +1
l12 Cha +1
l16 Cha +1
l20 Cha +1

Str 12 Dex 10 Con 12 Int 16 Wis 14 Cha 19


Build
Effective Character Levels



Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1st
Warlock 1
0
0
0
2
Bluff 4, Knowledge (religion) 4, Knowledge (the planes) 4, Spellcraft 4
Ability Focus -eldritch blast, Able Learner
Eldritch blast 1d6, invocation (least)


2nd
Warlock 2
1
0
0
3
Bluff 5, Intimidate 1, Knowledge (the planes) 5, Spellcraft 5
-
Detect magic


3rd
Warlock 3
2
1
1
3
Bluff 6, Intimidate 2, Knowledge (the planes) 6, Spellcraft 6
Intimidating Strike
Damage reduction 1/cold iron, eldritch blast 2d6


4th
Warlock 4
3
1
1
4
Bluff 7, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (the planes) 7
-
Deceive item


5th
Warlock 5
3
1
1
4
Bluff 8, Intimidate 6, Knowledge (the planes) 8
-
Eldritch blast 3d6


6th
Warlock 6
4
2
2
5
Bluff 9, Intimidate 8, Knowledge (the planes) 9
Heighten Spell-like Ability -eldritch blast
New invocation (least or lesser)


7th
Warlock 7
5
2
2
5
Bluff 10, Intimidate 10, Knowledge (the planes) 10
-
Damage reduction 2/cold iron, eldritch blast 4d6


8th
Warlock 8
6
2
2
6
Bluff 11, Knowledge (the planes) 11, Use Magic Device 3
-
Fiendish resilience 1


9th
Binder 1
6
4
2
8
Bluff 12, Knowledge (the planes) 12, Use Magic Device 6
Maximize Spell-like Ability -eldritch blast
Soul Binding (1 vestige: Naberius)


10th
Hellfire Warlock 1
6
4
2
10
Bluff 13, Concentration 3, Use Magic Device 7
-
Hellfire blast +2d6, +1 level of existing invoking class


11th
Hellfire Warlock 2
7
4
2
11
Bluff 14, Concentration 6, Use Magic Device 8
-
Hellfire blast +4d6, hellfire infusion, resistance to fire 10, +1 level of existing invoking class


12th
Hellfire Warlock 3
8
5
3
11
Bluff 15, Concentration 9, Use Magic Device 9
Arcane Disciple (War Domain)
Hellfire blast +6d6, hellfire shield, +1 level of existing invoking class


13th
Warlock 9
8
6
4
11
Bluff 16, Concentration 11, Intimidate 11, Use Magic Device 10
-
Eldritch blast 5d6


14th
Warlock 10
9
6
4
12
Bluff 17, Concentration 12, Intimidate 12, Use Magic Device 12
-
Energy resistance 5


15th
Warlock 11
10
6
4
12
Bluff 18, Concentration 14, Intimidate 13, Use Magic Device 13
Quickened Spell-like Ability -eldritch blast
Damage reduction 3/cold iron, eldritch blast 6d6, new invocation (least,lesser, or greater)


16th
Warlock 12
11
7
5
13
Bluff 19, Concentration 15, Intimidate 15, Use Magic Device 14
-
Imbue item


17th
Warlock 13
11
7
5
13
Bluff 20, Concentration 16, Intimidate 16, Use Magic Device 16
-
Fiendish resilience 2


18th
Warlock 14
12
7
5
14
Bluff 21, Concentration 18, Intimidate 17, Use Magic Device 17
Dragontouched
Eldritch blast 7d6


19th
Warlock 15
13
8
6
14
Bluff 22, Concentration 19, Intimidate 19, Use Magic Device 18
-
Damage reduction 4/cold iron


20th
Warlock 16
14
8
6
15
Bluff 23, Concentration 20, Intimidate 20, Use Magic Device 20
-
New invocation (least, lesser, greater, or dark)




Invocations & Spells per Day

Invocations Known
1st 1
2nd 2
3rd 2
4th 3
5th 3
6th 4
7th 4
8th 5
9th -
10th 5
11th 6
12th 7
13th 7
14th 8
15th 8
16th 9
17th 10
18th 10
19th 11
20th 11


Invocations

Invocations

LEAST
See the Unseen (CArc):
Baleful Utterance (CArc):
Beguiling Influence (CArc):
All-Seeing Eyes (CM):
Serpent's Tongue (CM):
Eldritch Glaive (DrM):

LESSER
Voidsense (CArc):
Eldritch Chain (CArc):
Crawling Eye (CM):
The Dead Walk (CArc):

GREATER
Chilling Tentacles (CArc):
Draconic Flight, (DrM):
Vitriolic Blast (CArc):

DARK
Retributive Invisibility (CArc):

War Domain Spells
1 Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
2 Spiritual Weapon: Magical weapon attacks on its own.
3 Magic Vestment: Armor or shield gains +1 enhancement per four levels.
4 Divine Power: Bab 20/15/10/5, +6 enhancment to Str



SI-Emulation

SI-Emulation

How the build compares to the dragonfire adept

Weapon and Armor Proficiency simple weapons & light armor
Invocations: has access to level 9 dark Invocations
Breath Weapon (Su): while the build does not have a "Breath Weapon" the build does have the Eldritch blast with a range of 60 feet, which could act like a line attack
Dragontouched: gains the feat late in the build
Breath Effect: the eldritch blast can be altered via blast and essence, which can mimic the Breath Effects
Scales (Ex): while the build does not see a natural armor improvement it does get energy resistance & fast healing 2
Dragonkin (Ex): one of the few the build does not replicate
Damage Reduction (Ex): it does get 3/cold iron
Immunities (Ex): one of the few the build does not replicate
skills the build does not get Appraise, Climb, Listen, Search, Spot as class skills, while it may not use all of its class skills it has access to.
hp the build sees an average D6 for hp and 2+int for skills which are less than the SI

Other considerations
The save DC for an invocation (if it allows a save) is 10 + Cha mod + Ability Focus + Heighten Spell-like Ability of equivalent spell level
For the Eldritch Blast/Glaive at 20th this would be <10+4+3+9> = (DC 26)

Eldritch blast is a ray with a range of 60 feet, when used with Ability Focus, Maximize Spell-like Ability, Eldritch Chain combined with any of the essences that are

available and this is a decent ranged weapon, which could act like a line attack breath weapon

When in an area that does not work well for a ray attack then it can be shaped to Eldritch Glaive for a good melee reach option, when used with Ability Focus, Maximize

Spell-like Ability, that can have Vitriolic Blast and the like used with it, combined with Intimidating Strike and many foe will flee in fear.

With Ebon Eyes, All-Seeing Eyes, See the Unseen, Serpent's Tongue, Crawling Eye, Voidsense &, Spider-Shape, he has at his disposal, see through magical darkness,

darkvision, see invisibility, blindsense, tremorsense, scent, good Spot and Search bonuses, and a remote vision ability, making him a good scout.

For social situations with a decent bluff or intimidate he should be able to get things or information he or his party needs for very little effort


Sources

Sources
SRD
Human (phb, p12)
Garagos (F&P, p94)
Warlock (Carc, p5) d6 2+
Binder (ToM p9) d8 2+
Hellfire Warlock (FC2 p89) d6 2+
Intimidating Strike (PH2, 79)
Dragontouched (DrM p18)
Arcane Disciple (CDiv, p79)
Maximize Spell-like Ability (Carc, p81)
Heighten Spell-like Ability (Carc, p80)
Quickened Spell-like Ability (MM, p304)
Ability Focus (MM, p303)
Able Learner (RoD, p150)

[Sian]

A character interested in Live-Action Role Playing her ancestors life. Quite meta.




Sarah Dragonflame
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e98/RogueLordEibon/Tariz2.jpg

Background
The Dragonflame family can trace their roots back to a red dragon sometime in the distant past. Every generation or so, a member of the family really takes on the traits of this ancestor. Sarah is one such member of this family.

She truly embraced the idea of being descended from a dragon. She breathes fire like a dragon and pretty much acts like a dragon whenever she can. She can even turn into a dragon if she really wanted to. She also loves treasure and attention. However it seems like most people either truly love her or truly hate her. These things do not even matter to Sarah as she learns more about dragonkind.

Sarah took her family traits a little farther than other members of the family. She decided to really explore what it means to be a dragon. To fully embrace the varied members of all dragonkind. Sarah’s studies give her both knowledges of vestiges and incarnum and has made herself fully capable of using these different magicks along with her own inherent draconic magic.

Sarah has found a balance surrounding her draconic heritage and often travels with like minded individuals.

Basics
N female azurin Sorcerer 4/Totemist 2/Binder 1/Soulcaster 8/Anima Mage 5
32 point buy
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 16
Abiltiy increase at 4th Level goes to Constitution
All other increases go to Charisma

Build


Level
Class
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Skills
Feats
Class Features
Meld/Bind/Cast


1st
Sorcerer 1
+0
+0
+0
+2
Bluff 4, Intimidate 4, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Spellcraft 4
Draconic Heritage (red), Empower Spell
metamagic specialist acf
0/0/1


2nd
Sorcerer 2
+1
+0
+0
+3
Bluff +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Spellcraft +1


0/0/2


3rd
Sorcerer 3
+1
+1
+1
+3
Bluff +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Spellcraft +1
Draconic Breath

0/0/3


4th
Sorcerer 4
+2
+1
+1
+4
Bluff +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Spellcraft +1


0/0/4


5th
Totemist 1
+2
+3
+3
+4
Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) 1, Knowledge (planes) 1, Listen 1, Spellcraft +1, Spot 1

wild empathy
1/0/4


6th
Totemist 2
+3
+4
+4
+4
Knowledge (arcana) +1, Knowledge (nature) +1, Knowledge (planes) +1, Listen +1, Spellcraft +1, Spot +1
Incarnum Spellshaping
totem chakra bind
2/0/4


7th
Binder 1
+3
+6
+4
+6
Bluff +1, Decipher Script 1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (planes) +1

soul binding (one vestige)
2/1/4


8th
Soulcaster 1
+3
+6
+4
+8
Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1 Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion) 1

arcane investment 1
3/1/5


9th
Soulcaster 2
+4
+6
+6
+9
Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1 Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1
Improved Binding

4/1/6


10th
Soulcaster 3
+4
+7
+7
+9
Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1 Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1

chakra bind (crown, feet, hands)
5/1/7


11th
Anima Mage 1
+4
+7
+7
+11
Bluff +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Spellcraft +1


5/2/8


12th
Anima Mage 2
+5
+7
+7
+12
Bluff +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Spellcraft +1
Open Lesser Chakra (shoulders)
exploit vestige
5/3/9


13th
Anima Mage 3
+5
+8
+8
+12
Bluff +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Spellcraft +1

vestigial awareness
5/4/10


14th
Anima Mage 4
+6
+8
+8
+13
Bluff +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Spellcraft +1


5/5/11


15th
Anima Mage 5
+6
+8
+8
+13
Bluff +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1, Spellcraft +1
Draconic Presence
vestige metamagic 1/day
5/6/12


16th
Soulcaster 4
+7
+8
+8
+14
Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1 Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1


6/6/13


17th
Soulcaster 5
+7
+8
+8
+14
Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1 Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1


7/6/14


18th
Soulcaster 6
+8
+9
+9
+15
Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1 Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1
Repeat Spell

8/6/15


19th
Soulcaster 7
+8
+9
+9
+15
Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1 Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1

arcane investment 2
9/6/16


20th
Soulcaster 8
+9
+9
+9
+16
Intimidate +1, Knowledge (arcana) +1 Knowledge (planes) +1, Knowledge (religion) +1

chakra bind (arms, brow, shoulders)
10/6/17



Skill Ranks at Level 20: Bluff 13, Decipher Script 1, Intimidate 21, Knowledge (arcana) 22, Knowledge (nature) 2, Knowledge (planes) 11, Knowledge (religion) 8, Listen 2, Spellcraft 14, Spot 2

Spells Known
0: acid splash, caltrops, daze, detect magic, Horizikaul’s cough, mending, open/close, stick, touch of fatigue
1: backbiter, enlarge person, fetid breath, Horizikaul’s boom, magic missile
2: cloud of knives, kelgore’s grave mist, scorchiing ray, web, wings of cover
3: dispel magic, dragon breath, dragon skin, haste
4: Evard’s black tentacles, vortex of teeth, primal senses, wings of flurry
5: baleful polymorph, draconic might, draconic polymorph, teleport
6: extract water elemental, imperious glare, primal speed
7: animate breath, glass strike, limited wish
8: enervating breath, polymorph any object

Emulation Showcase
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sarah is a little better off when compared to a standard Dragonfire Adept. Because of the Sorcerer levels, she will also wear no armor. However thanks to her other classes, Sarah at least has the ability to wear light armor. Also certain vestiges also provide for the wearing and proficiency of heavier armor and more complex or certain types weapons.
BAB and Saves: At Level 20, Sarah ends up being one BAB short compared to a standard Dragonfire Adept. That’s not so bad considering that she is a caster and if she is going to be in melee, something terrible has happened. She also ends up with a better Reflex and Will save thanks to multiclassing, though her Fortitude save is short of a 20th level Dragonfire Adept. Overall this is a net gain for the saving throws.
Invocations: The Dragonfire Adept gains invocations much like a Warlock does. Also just like a Warlock, the Dragonfire Adept is woefully limited in the number of invocations known. Most (if not all) of the invocations that the Dragonfire Adept can use can be replicated by either spells (from Sarah’s Sorcerer levels) , soulmelds (from Sarah’s Totemist levels), or vestige powers (from Sarah’s Binder levels).
Breath Weapon: This is one of the signature abilities of the Dragonfire Adept—an at will standard action breath weapon that grows both in damage and versatility as the character levels up. For Sarah this is mainly emulated with the Draonic Breath feat. It allows for Sarah to sacrifice a spell slot to breath a cone of fire (since she is of red dragon heritage) that does d6s of damage equal to twice the spell level sacrificed. This alone is enou.gh to get the raw damage of the Dragonfire Adept to match along with the damage increase of spell level available to be sacrificed.
Dragontouched: This feat makes the character dragonblooded, provide fixed bonuses to certain skills and saving throws and allows the character to select dragon feats as though a Sorcerer. Well Sarah is a Sorcerer with the Draonic Heritage feat which also makes the character dragonblooded. Furthermore, the more draconic feats that she has, the larger the bonuses become to those same saving throws. Sarah ends up having three draconic feats
Breath Effects: This is another of the Dragonfire Adept signature abilities. Here Sarah will be able to emulate most if not all of the effects through spells. Many of her spells known either create or modify a certain kind of breath weapon. The main spell is of course draconic breath, which is also used as a base for multiple spells that modify breath weapons. Other spells from her list create either different elemental damages or some kind of battlefield control. And of course if something really needs to be emulated that she does not have available, she can always use her limited wish.
Scales: First gained at 2nd level and improved upon throughout the career, the Dragonfire Adept gains natural armor. The spell dragon skin gives us this effect though Sarah can use other effects to grant natural armor bonuses. She could bind certain vestiges such as Dahlver-Nar or form the totem avatar or dragon mantle soulmelds. Either of these bonuses can be equal to or greater than the equivalent level of Dragonfire Adept.
Dragonkin: Gained at 4th level, this ability provides a flat bonus to other dragonblooded creatures. Sarah can do this better just by binding Naberius (seriously this is an awesomely versatile vestige). Though this ability is a defence against the frightful presence of dragons, Sarah’s feat Draconic Presence actually generates frightful presence whenever she casts a spell. You know dragon breath is a spell . . .
Damage Reduction:Gainted at 6th level and improved upon at 16th level, the Dragonfire Adept gains damage reduction. The increase to 5/magic at Level 16 is laughable. Sarah can gain DR 5/- just by binding Arete. She could just as easily bind Eurynome (DR 2/lawful) or Savnok (variable DR) to emulate this. But honestly, the DR is so low compared to the level gained that it is almost a non class feature as it is.
Immunities: Gained at 19th(!) level, the dragonfire adept becomes immune to sleep and paralysis, just like a dragon. This comes extremely late for this to be effective. If Sarah wants to become immune to these effects before 19th level, WBL is a great answer. There is a draconic soulmeld that grants this ability but it is for Incarnates only (?!?!?). Feats can be rearranged or replaced so that she can acquire the Shape Soulmeld (elder spirit) feat and replicate this easily. This designer feels that WBL is a better answer since Sarah is a little feat starved.

Design Notes
Too many subsystems!: That may be true but that is partly what makes 3.5 so interesting! Besides, it is only three subsystems—soul binding, meldshaping, and spellcasting. It’s not like [she] has all of the available subsystems out there! But truly, this designer found that these made the best combination while making an optimizable character based upon a certain class.
So what does Sarah do: She has Tier 2 casting of spells up to 8 th level. She has the soulbinding capability of a 6 th level binder (which means that with Improved Binding it is really vestiges up to an 8 th level Binder). She has the meldshaping capability of a 10 th level Totemist. In a word, Sarah is versatile. She can cast spells for the situation. She can bind vestiges or shape soulmelds as needed. With her high Charisma and various social skills, she can be the face of the party. Add Naberius to really shine here. Her ranks of knowledges means that she can be at least the secondary encyclopedia of the group as well.

Sources
Dragon Magic: draconic soulmelds and primal senses spell
Draconomicon: draconic might, draconic polymorph and dragon breath spells
Ghostwalk: fetid breath spell
Magic of Faerun: Horizikaul’s boom and Horizikaul’s cough spells
Magic of Incarnum: azurin race, Totemist base class, Soulcaster prestige class, Incarnum Spellshaping and Opern Lesser Chakra feats
Player’s Handbook II: Kelgore’s grave mist spell, metamagic specialist Sorcerer alternate class feature
Races of the Dragon: Draconic Breath, Draconic Heritage and Draconic Presence feats, wings of cover and wings of flurry spells
Spell Compendium: certain spells
Tome of Magic: Binder base class, Anima Mage prestige class, Improved Binding feat

[Sian]

there they are.

Must say that i had somewhat excepted someone to jump in with a Psion x / Diamond Dragon 5 or something of that sort, with a pp regain trick and focused powers giving long (sefl)buffs. If I were the one to build that would probably have been the way that I would have gone ... able to ignore paralyzation/Sleep for 1PP (Immidiate action) and make several different kinds of beath weapons every round would go rather far in terms of emulating what i would believe is the most difficult part of the class.

[The Underlord]

Are you still taking judges? It's been a long time since I've judged one of these, but I would like to give it a shot.

[Sian]

feel free :smallbiggrin:

[The Underlord]

Since I happen to have a lot of free time,
Note on judging SI
I broke the SI into 5 catergories, each worth a certain maximum number of points.
1. Dragon-theme: .5 .25
2. Breath Weapon: .5
3. Breath Effects: .25
4. Invocations: 1
5. Other class features (NA, Immunities, etc): .5
Thus the base is 2.25 2.5. Deductions might be made if you go really off theme.
Adam Ferel
2.5: (3) You used the other invocation giving class -.25. This is the textbook Hellfire Warlock Build -.25.
3.25: (3) As an invocation using class, you are pretty much really close to the DFA in power, but I'm going to give you a slight edge from Hellfire Warlock and the Binder dip +.25.
2.75: (3) Glaring Binder dip -.5. But other than that, you stuck to Warlock and took your PrC to full +.25.
3.75: (2.5) The eldritch blast is similar to a breath weapon, but not quite there +.25. You have invocations, but only a few are similar to DFA invocations +.5 +1 * (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19440438&postcount=56) Overall, your character has NO dragon theme, and while your invocations could emulate breath effects, your invocations known has none of them. The DR isn't really significant enough to be worth points IMO.
Total Score: 12.25

Sarah Dragonflame
3.25: (3) Incarnum really surprised me, especially totemist and soul caster +.25.
3.75: (3) While your incarnum and binding doesn't make you particularly powerful, 8th level spellcasting puts you far ahead of DFA +.75.
2.25: (3) You take a multiclassing penalty to experience -.25. Binder dip -.5. But you advance it via a prestige class, so you get some points back +.25. 2 level Totemist dip -.5. Once again, you advance it with a PrC, so +.25.
4.25: (2.5) Clear dragon theme +.25. Pretty effective breath weapon +.5. Breath effect are reasonably emulated with spells +.25. Some invocations were emulated with spells, but the limited use of spells and vagueness of how incarnum and binding can emulate invocations meant not getting the full points +.5 Limited NA and some DR are pretty good for accessing the other class features, but WBL is not good enough for the immunities +.25. Overall, the limited nature of your binding makes it hard to count for all aspects of the SI.
Total: 13.5
EDIT: I changed how I scored the SI slightly because I felt like I weighed the 'dragon theme' too heavily. All it did was bump up Adam Ferel by .25

[dysprosium]

That might just be the quickest build reveal to judging post time on record!

Thanks for judging Underlord!

And it is really cool to see someone who was involved in the earliest Zinc Sauciers to be involved in this round.

[Segev]

My apologies for the lack of entry on my part; all I could think of was using a warlock (which I see somebody did, good) and I just didn't have TIME x_x.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Imma take my time judging these. They went in totally different directions. (That and I am a bit busy). Expect the post no later than tomorrow.

[WhamBamSam]

My ideas were as follows. I probably should have ground one out and submitted it in retrospect, but I just wasn't all that motivated somehow.

1. Dragonborn (Heart) Human Wildshape Ranger 15/Warshaper 5 (delaying the Rite of Rebirth slightly to drop a Ranger bonus feat), with Dragon Wild Shape, using a Dragonmark to qualify both for Quicken SLA->Rapid Breath, and for Breath of Siberys eventually, and squeezing in Entangling Exhalation and Recover Breath (so on the whole it had all the breath weapons, changable as a swift action, -2 to breath weapon recharge times so you can usually breathe on consecutive rounds, and the most important DFA feat evar). I also thought about dropping the last three Ranger levels and rejiggering some feats for Chameleon 2 and crafting exp to make a Crown of the North Wind in case I couldn't count on being able to buy one).

2. Dragonwrought Desert Kobold PsyRogue 6/Slime Lord 5/X 9 using the Draconic Rite of Passage SLA to go Quicken SLA->Rapid Breath, and Dragon type Alter Self+Metamorphic Transfer+Crown of the North Wind for its version of "Breath Weapons for all occasions," but in general mostly just going a similar route. It ended up mostly just being a worse version of the above, though it did have an analogue for the Charm Invocation, which I sort of liked.

[Sian]

well ... If Zamiel manages to put out the jugding tomorrow and there is no disputes (none as of yet), i just might cut the navel-contemplating and pull a fast one setting up ZS XXXII sometime this week :smallbiggrin:

[Atypical_Necro]

I was seriously tempted to enter this but I found it too late. I was gonna do a Cleric of Bahamut 5/Binder 7/Knight of the Sacred Seal (Focalor) 5/Binder +3 using Dragonfire Channeling, Amon's Fiery Breath, and Focalor's Blinding Breath to emulate breath weapons. Got DR/magic from KotSS and super high saves to resist paralysis and sleep. Stack Tenebrous and Cleric to keep the Divine Channeling damage up and Focalor's aura to lower the enemies' saves. Alas, I was not fast or observant enough...

[Sian]

Das Dispute, although i've edited in quotation markers so its more read-able




Innovation
2.5: (3) You used the other invocation giving class -.25. This is the textbook Hellfire Warlock Build -.25.

well my issue here is there are no other ways of emulating invocations properly , why give a deduction for this? and then why the deduction for a "textbook hellfire warlock, I don;t think there is such a thing, but even then we are emulating an invocating class and this is the best way to acheive simular dice worth of damage that the SI deals with its breath weapon and that should be accounted for somewhere..



Elegance
2.75: (3) Glaring Binder dip -.5

well I can understand a penalty for the dip, with no criteria to go from I will argue that -.5 is a bit heavy handed



Secret Ingredient
3.25: (2.5) The eldritch blast is similar to a breath weapon, but not quite there +.25. You have invocations, but only a few are similar to DFA invocations +.5 Overall, your character has NO dragon theme, and while your invocations could emulate breath effects, your invocations known has none of them. The DR isn't really significant enough to be worth points IMO.

well several invocations drawn from multiple sources, but I can see where you would come from on the simular to the DFA specific ones,
on the invocations list i would argue that these below could be considered dragon themed..., no arguement on the DR3/CI but also good enough to not warrent a dedution so it is okay

See the Unseen (CArc):
Baleful Utterance (CArc):
Beguiling Influence (CArc):
All-Seeing Eyes (CM):
Serpent's Tongue (CM):
Voidsense (CArc):
Draconic Flight, (DrM):


as a side note
Thanks for judging

[Segev]

If I'd made an entry, it would have used Warlock as well. I think I'd have gone for a pseudodragon warlock, and I would have explicitly fluffed the eldrich blast as coming from his mouth. (I do not believe the RAW state that it must come from one's hands.)

[The Underlord]

well my issue here is there are no other ways of emulating invocations properly , why give a deduction for this?
Except there are other ways to emulate invocations, if only half way, (as the other entry showed). As warlock is the only class that has invocations, to me it seems the obvious choice (others have also spoken about how they saw warlock as an obvious choice).


and then why the deduction for a "textbook hellfire warlock, I don;t think there is such a thing
The reason I penalized for this is that if you ask for a hellfire warlock build, this is the build you would get (even with similar feats and invocation recommendations).


but even then we are emulating an invocating class and this is the best way to acheive simular dice worth of damage that the SI deals with its breath weapon and that should be accounted for somewhere
Points were given in the SI emulation section for having invocations and having a similar weapon to a breath weapon.


well I can understand a penalty for the dip, with no criteria to go from I will argue that -.5 is a bit heavy handed
My reasoning for this was that A. I wanted to stay within intervals of .25 and B. I wanted to be able to give back partial points if you expanded upon the dipped class (like the other entry did). Your build does not do so and the binder dip felt unnecessary for the emulation of the SI (nothing related to binding is mentioned in your SI emulation section).


well several invocations drawn from multiple sources, but I can see where you would come from on the simular to the DFA specific ones,
on the invocations list i would argue that these below could be considered dragon themed..., no arguement on the DR3/CI but also good enough to not warrent a dedution so it is okay

See the Unseen (CArc):
Baleful Utterance (CArc):
Beguiling Influence (CArc):
All-Seeing Eyes (CM):
Serpent's Tongue (CM):
Voidsense (CArc):
Draconic Flight, (DrM):

For the invocations I was considering the mechanical point more than the theme (dragon theme was scored separately). However looking over the DFA's invocation list, you have much more invocations that are similar to the DFA's than I had noticed previously. I am bumping up +.5 for invocation emulations to +.75 +1. This means the SI score for Adam Ferrel goes up to 3.75

As far as the dragon theme was concerned, they might have been arguably dragon themed, but you made no effort in your character background or your SI emulation section to re-fluff them.


as a side note
Thanks for judging
Thanks for competing! It takes much more to effort compete than it does to judge.

TL;DR: Adam Ferrel's score was changed to 12.25.

[SinsI]

I was considering Erudite (maybe even spell-to-power)/Diamond Dragon. This enables to get the staple Breath Weapon + Entangling Exhalation combo working, and emulate the effect of most of the Invocations, with Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion to provide the "unlimited use" part of the Dragonfire Adept.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Adam Ferel
2. This is a classic approach to warlock, right down to the invocations. I admit I didn't see it coming for this dish but only because it is so bland.
4.5. This is an extremely strong way to run warlock. The only bit of d6 boosting silliness you lack is mortal bane. It does not come of as flavorful, but you really are taking warlock to its reasonable limit.
5. A prestige class to fun and the only dip being highly relevant. Simple and effective.
1.5. There is where we run into trouble. This comes off as a fully functional warlock build with one odd feat, dragontouched. Eldritch blast retains none of the advantages of DFA's breath weapon (namely bypassing AC and being able to hit invisible/hidden creatures reliably), its mechanics (touch vs area), nor its flavor. Dragontouched comes on so late in the build it seems tacked on rather than an integral part of your build and you fail to build off of it at all. You also fail to effectively emulate any of the DFA's features aside from invocations, which was done simply by being a warlock. Sorry but I am just left not feeling the dragon here at all.
13

Sarah Dragonflame
4. I expected to see some totemist, but to use binder? Yea, that surprised me. Good choice spreading out the invocation replication across three abilities.
4. This build take a while to come online, so for several levels you are tripping over your own feet until you get into the prestige classes. I am also sad because, as cools as binds and melds are, they are nothing compared to 9ths.
4. As I said you end up doubling back on some critical levels there, so that cost you elegance. You nicely wrap it all up by higher levels though.
4.5. You got the spammable breath weapon (in the appropriate element and shape), spammable invocations, and you can use your resources to emulate almost anything the dragonfire adept can do. I don't feel you can copy the Breath Effects well enough (for example you cannot drop a sizable AoE acid, especially multiple times per day), so I dinged you there. Other than that you nailed it.
16.5

[Sian]

might as well collect



Scoring
The Underlord
ZamialVanWeber
Total


Sarah Dragonflame
13.5
16.5
30


Adam Ferel
12.25
13
25.25



As i except no more judges, i'm considering closing very early in a (vain?) attempt to get in opposite line with Iron Chef, unless theres any disputes within the next 24h (notices that no disputes are comming from the cooks would be appreciated as well)

[samduke]

time to move on it seems.. thanks to both judges

[Sian]

by the way ... any requests? I got a little list of suggestions but if someone really wants one on the list or good additions, i'm all ears

[dysprosium]

Surprisingly enough Dragonfire Adept was going to be my next pick after Factotum (if it just didn't fizzle out).

Binder might be interesting only because there is so much potential to rip from.

Warblade was done back in Round 8 but there were no judges for it and they just moved on. That was before my involvement with the Playground in general. So that could be interesting class to revisit.

I don't think something psionic has been done in a while.

[Segev]

Has Totemist or Incarnate been done?

Or how about one of the highly looked-down upon classes: Divine Mind or Soulborn? Maybe the Zinc versions will do what they set out for better.

[ZamielVanWeber]

I do like the sound of seeing if people can improve upon weaker classes.

[dysprosium]

Totemist was Round XIX, the first round I was Chairman for. We haven't done Incarnate though.

Making bad classes good has been a subtheme. In fact the very first Zinc Saucier was Soulknife.

[Sian]

looking at the list (last bit of opening post), Totemist was done in XIX.

Incarnate might be a posibility and are tentatively added to my list (which had 7 different ideas before these)

Binder ... well I'm slightly concerned that it might be overly difficult to properly emulate

Divine Mind is an idea as well...

[Segev]

You know, I actually have a build concept I'd one day like to play that could be refluffed and tweaked to be a Zinc Saucier Binder. The hardest part would be making sure I re-aligned fluff and chose just the right mechanics to get it "right," because the original form doesn't use the flavor at all. (Though honestly could benefit from a Binder dip, perhaps, in its own right.)

[Jurai]

We did Ranger, already. Let's do Paladin! Or Spell Chandler (Tome and Blood)! Or Runecaster!

[dysprosium]

Paladin was done back in Round 7.

Spell Chandler? Do you mean Candle Caster?

[Jurai]

Yeah, that one!

[SinsI]

How about Chameleon?

[Sian]

How about Chameleon?

already on my list, on my shorterlist actually

[Sian]

Calling:

EntryChefPlaceTotalAverage
Sarah DragonflamedysprosiumGold303.75
Adam FerelSamdukeSilver25.253.15625

Get out your dusty dicso ball, cause it's time to dance (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423798-Zinc-Saucier-XXXII-Dancing-with-the-Stars)

[samduke]

Calling:

EntryChefPlaceTotalAverage
Sarah DragonflamedysprosiumGold303.75
Adam FerelSamdukeSilver25.253.15625

Get out your dusty dicso ball, cause it's time to dance (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=418282)

digs out the dance shoes- and gets redirected to .... interesting

[dysprosium]

I have some friends in real life who really want to play a Candle Caster. They just haven't had a chance yet.

It looks like it was a pretty successful restart to the competition -- two entries and two judges.

Thanks to them by the way and the new Chair for waiting for me to get my stuff together.

Let's keep the ball rolling!