Have you changed the creature type of some monsters?

[St Fan]

A question for DMs: are you sometimes dissatisfied with how some monsters were classified, and changed their type in your campaign as a houserule?

To give a few examples, just on top of my head:

The Gargoyle as a Monstrous Humanoid strikes me as weird. I would've tagged it as a Magical Beast at first glance. Although the fact that don't need to eat, breath or sleep and have the Earth subtype would classify it straight as elemental.

As a general rule, the Aberration type feels like a a throw-it-all category for every weird creatures. I would revise many of them.

For example, the Will-O’-Wisp should be a Fey, IMO.

Athach as Giant would fit better than Aberration too. Giants with misshapen bodies and weird abilities are common.

I'm uncomfortable with most humanoid Aberrations, anyway, unless they're as alien as mind flayers. Like the Ettercap, which has most traits of Monstrous Humanoids.

And amorphous shapeshifters like Mimic or Phasm would fit much better among Oozes. Okay, Oozes are usually Mindless, I know, but that doesn't mean there aren't exception. (Dungeonscape includes a template that gives Oozes animal inelligence, for starter, so it proves it's possible.)



I don't think This generally wouldn't impact the game much except for a few stats. Although it can have some unexpected isde-effect, like allowing more creatures (or closing some) to a shapeshifter. Not a big issue unless you have a Master of Many Forms in your group.

Some spells and abilities that are geared toward to some creature types are going to be impacted, of course. The supplement Lord of Madness in particular contains lots of Aberrations-specific spells and powers (another reason I would limit the number of aberrations in my game).

[Urpriest]

Will-O'-Wisps would only make sense as Fey if their abilities were magical. If they were just balls of light that would work, but balls of spongy bioluminescent stuff are pretty straightforwardly Aberrations.

Nagas, though, should almost certainly be Magical Beasts, like Sphinxes.

[jiriku]

War trolls always bothered me as monstrous humanoids. I restatted them as giants, like all other sorts of trolls. Bumped the HD to 16, changed the type to giant, and recalculated accordingly.

[Honest Tiefling]

For example, the Will-O’-Wisp should be a Fey, IMO.

This one makes complete sense to me, actually. I rather like this change.


Will-O'-Wisps would only make sense as Fey if their abilities were magical. If they were just balls of light that would work, but balls of spongy bioluminescent stuff are pretty straightforwardly Aberrations.

Wha...No! You got your crappy Sci-Fi all over my Fantasy RPG! (http://ffn.nodwick.com/?p=15)

[Afgncaap5]

I like the Athach as an Aberration, actually. It's a near to giants, sure, but it's something far enough removed that it doesn't fit that mold. Also, even though there's no fluff I can quickly find to support it, for some reason I always think of them as a reminder that not all Aberrations are creatures from beyond time and space, sometimes they're just the results of repulsive magic experiments that should-not-be. (Meanwhile, the Chuul is definitely an example of that, but for some reason they don't remind me of it.)

I once restatted a squid a bit and made the biggest change be its creature type. I made it burst out of the ground and described it as a series of mushroom-like shoots and tentacles made of shadow that tried to grab a player to pull it back down (with no ink cloud, but a darkness ability and the ability to breathe air). I decided to simultaneously make it an Outsider and an Aberration.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Oh, totally. It's an easy way to produce custom monsters. I turned a whole bunch of things into aberrations for a campaign with a fleshgrafter-type villain, for instance.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I think Monstrous Humanoids is meant for anything generally human-shaped, but with special abilities or just super-human stats or size. In terms of mythology, this is where all the "half man, half X" such as Centaur and Minotaur tend to get placed.

While as Magical Beast is a catch-all for stuff that would be Animals if not for their Su abilities or their Int being above 2. (Not all magical beasts meet both of these criteria, but I can't think of any that don't meet either). In terms of mythology, this is where a lot of the weird beasts that are a combo of features from multiple different animals such as Chimera or Manticore tend to get placed.

So Gargoyles totally make sense to me as Monstrous Humanoids. I agree with you on the rest. Except adding those creatures to ooze. Not without explicitly changing and generalizing what it means to be an ooze first.

(I am a bit against tearing apart the Aberration category, though. It's slowly become my favorite group of monsters...probably BECAUSE of how disjointed and unrelated everything is. It's basically just a list of awesome, freaky crap. And that's cool!)

[Honest Tiefling]

I think Monstrous Humanoids is meant for anything generally human-shaped, but with special abilities or just super-human stats or size. In terms of mythology, this is where all the "half man, half X" such as Centaur and Minotaur tend to get placed.

Given that certain myths make these races...The product of questionable bedroom habits between humans and other races, this does make some degree of sense. You'd kinda expect the spawn of a human to be...Humanish.

[St Fan]

While as Magical Beast is a catch-all for stuff that would be Animals if not for their Su abilities or their Int being above 2. (Not all magical beasts meet both of these criteria, but I can't think of any that don't meet either).


I think the bloodhawk do; no supernatural ability, and intelligence 2, could be just as well an animal.

I don't mind Aberrations as a group either, it's some case-by-case basis that bother me. Many would fit as magical beasts.

There's also a game balance viewpoint: as mentioned above, it's the Master of Many Forms who gets the most advantage of a big Aberration list. Magical Beasts are harder to wild shape into without some specialized feats (or a generalized, epic one).

I do agree that it's a good way to keep players on their toes, too. Especially if they have the Knowledge Devotion, you need to use the right knowledge check, after all.

On a side note, I would too shift knowledge of Giants and Monstrous Humanoids from knowledge (nature) to knowledge (local). Knowledge (nature) covers a bit too much, IMO.

[ksbsnowowl]

While as Magical Beast is a catch-all for stuff that would be Animals if not for their Su abilities or their Int being above 2. (Not all magical beasts meet both of these criteria, but I can't think of any that don't meet either). Girallons.

Magical Beast is anything animal-like that isn't a real-world animal, as well as animal-like things that have magical abilities.

[Uncle Pine]

I didn't, but I did refluff some creatures at times. For example, in the campaign I'm currently running the kingdom sometimes uses Wind Eagles as mounts (eagles-like creatures made literally of semisolid condensed wind), but they are actually Large air elementals in disguise. On the same vein, in a one-shot tutorial adventure that I run for a group of new players set in a Kanto expy region, I used the stats of a Medium earth elemental for Brock even though I described him as a really sturdy black skinned dwarf.

[Thurbane]

There's a few in the SRD that I think should be Aberrations that aren't:

Ankheg
Darkmantle
Digester
Ethereal Marauder
Frost Worm
Grey Render
Phase Spider
Purple Worm
Remorhaz
Roper
Spider Eater
Yrthak

...seriously, take a flip through the SRD/MM and tell me these don't look more like Lovecraftian aberrations than being in the same stable as Unicorns and Worgs.

[Elandris Kajar]

There's a few in the SRD that I think should be Aberrations that aren't:

Ankheg
Darkmantle
Digester
Ethereal Marauder
Frost Worm
Grey Render
Phase Spider
Purple Worm
Remorhaz
Roper
Spider Eater
Yrthak

...seriously, take a flip through the SRD/MM and tell me these don't look more like Lovecraftian aberrations than being in the same stable as Unicorns and Worgs.

I personally believe that as fluffed, most could be aberrations but the purple worm, remorhaz and frost worm should be something else entirely. Not sure what, though.:smallfrown:

[Thurbane]

Maybe some type of augmented Vermin?

[Elandris Kajar]

Maybe some type of augmented Vermin?

This seems about right. Maybe make a monstrous vermin creature type?

[Honest Tiefling]

This seems about right. Maybe make a monstrous vermin creature type?

Ah, yes, just what I need for my arachnophobic players. Also, completely agree on the Roper. It...Really isn't an aberration. Now I feel quite silly for always assuming it was one!

[atemu1234]

This seems about right. Maybe make a monstrous vermin creature type?

Why not just Magical Beast?

[Elandris Kajar]

Why not just Magical Beast?

I just think that it would help distinguish them. I mean you don't see minotaurs classified as magical beasts and I believe they could logically be treated thusly. But monstrous humanoid is better from a fluff standpoint, and I believe a case can be made here again. Several other creatures could belong. The only one that currently comes to mind is the ankheg, though.

[Thurbane]

Why not just Magical Beast?

...seriously, take a flip through the SRD/MM and tell me these don't look more like Lovecraftian aberrations than being in the same stable as Unicorns and Worgs.
:smallwink:

[atemu1234]

:smallwink:

True, but that's not the metric by which you should judge things. I mean, objectively, something that can train animals works just as well between a penguin and an elephant in D&D. That's not how the real world works either.

[Milo v3]

I turned all Fey into Outsider (Natives).

[Thurbane]

True, but that's not the metric by which you should judge things. I mean, objectively, something that can train animals works just as well between a penguin and an elephant in D&D. That's not how the real world works either.

Fair enough - I guess I just have a problem with things that are too alien being magical beasts. Purely personal taste.

[atemu1234]

Fair enough - I guess I just have a problem with things that are too alien being magical beasts. Purely personal taste.

Understandable.

[nedz]

I have recently changed Gnolls. I made them Wolf-men because Hyenas don't fit in a northern setting. I also stripped out their RHD because I want them to be useful. I didn't change the type though.

I seriously considered making Kobolds Fey, but left them where they are for campaign related reasons.

Magical beast, Monstrous Humanoid and Aberration, especially Aberration, always struck me as type buckets. For most of the other types you can see a relationship between almost all of their creatures, but these are just vague collections.

So I would happily change their types - if it fitted my setting. I'm always on the lookout for more Fey for instance.

[Jack_Simth]

Sure. It's fun to change creature types. Shift elemental resistances, things like that. It's a great way to keep players on their toes if they start using too much OOC knowledge IC.

[Elandris Kajar]

I seriously considered making Kobolds Fey, but left them where they are for campaign related reasons.



Why? I cannot for the life of me guess how they could be fey. Dragons, maybe. But fey? Please explain:smallsmile:

[Milo v3]

Why? I cannot for the life of me guess how they could be fey. Dragons, maybe. But fey? Please explain:smallsmile:

Kobolds in actual myth are a form of underground fey, similar to knockers or pech.

[Elandris Kajar]

Kobolds in actual myth are a form of underground fey, similar to knockers or pech.

Wow, that is pretty interesting. Thanks for the explanation!!

[Mendicant]

This seems about right. Maybe make a monstrous vermin creature type?

I'd just make them vermin, flat out. It'd make the creature type a more viable target for spells and favored enemy.

[nedz]

Kobolds in actual myth are a form of underground fey, similar to knockers or pech.

Yes, I was running a Dwarf game, almost all underground, and I wanted some underground fey. It turns out that they are precious few: Oread basically. I ended up applying the Half-Fey template to some Dwarves and creating some Dwarven type fey also. I should have gone with Kobolds, unfortunately I'd used them in the same game earlier so that wasn't an option. I actually want Kobolds asis for my current game — so the issue is moot — but it is something to bear in mind for future games.

[St Fan]

Good points overall. I see it's a common houserule.

"Outsider" is another throw-it-all category that I find annoying. It should be reserved only for the most powerful outerplanar creatures. For example, I don't see why the Elemental type exist if most creatures from the elemental planes are tagged as Outsiders anyway.

I've just gone through the MM1 and listed all the creatures I would change the type in my campaign, tell me what you think:

Achaierai -> Magical Beast (Extraplanar)
Ankheg -> Vermin [+1 HD, +tremorsense]
Arrowhawk -> Magical Beast (Air, Extraplanar)
Ahthach -> Giant
Azer -> Elemental (Fire)
Darkmantle -> Aberration
Derro -> Humanoid (Dwarf)
Digester -> Aberration
Dragonne -> Dragon
Drider -> Monstrous Humanoid
Ettercap -> Monstrous Humanoid
Gargoyle -> Elemental (Earth, Native)
Hell Hound -> Magical Beast (Evil, Extraplanar, Fire, Lawful)
Howler -> Magical Beast (Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar)
Lamia -> Monstrous Humanoid
Locatah -> Monstrous Humanoid (Aquatic)
Mephit -> Elemental
Merfolk -> Monstrous Humanoid (Aquatic)
Mimic -> Ooze [intelligent]
Naga -> Fey
Nightmare -> Magical Beast (Evil, Extraplanr, Fire)
Phasm -> Ooze [intelligent]
Rast -> Elemental (Fire)
Ravid -> Magical Beast (Extraplanar)
Roper -> Aberration
Salamander -> Elemental (Fire)
Shadow Mastiff -> Magical Beast (Extraplanar)
Tojadina -> Elemental (water)
Vargouille -> Magical Beast (Evil, Extraplanar)
Will-O'-Wisp -> Fey
Xorn -> Elemental (Earth)
Yeth Hound -> Magical Beast (Evil, Extraplanar)
Yrthak -> Aberration

Averall, Aberrations are give-and-take, Magical Beasts and Elementals are growing in number, Outsiders are diminishing.

[Thurbane]

Te me Will-o-wisp seemed like it should have been an Elemental (maybe quasi plane of Lightning?), but Fey definitely works from a folklore POV.

[Milo v3]

Do people think fey would fit better as monstrous humanoids, aberrations or outsider (natives)?

[Bad Wolf]

Do people think fey would fit better as monstrous humanoids, aberrations or outsider (natives)?

I think they fit better as Fey.

[Milo v3]

I think they fit better as Fey.

Fey doesn't make sense as a creature type to me. They're nature spirits. Effectively elementals or outsiders for the material plane... but those already exist, they're called native outsiders. If they aren't actually made of the plane enough to be outsiders, then they are severely more mundane then they are portrayed, thus monstrous humanoid. Aberration comes from the fact some depictions of fey are as eldritch alien beings. Could be undead since they're spirits, but fey generally aren't dead people.

[Socksy]

I think Monstrous Humanoids is meant for anything generally human-shaped, but with special abilities or just super-human stats or size. In terms of mythology, this is where all the "half man, half X" such as Centaur and Minotaur tend to get placed.

What about a part man, part skeleton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU513suJZzY)?


...seriously, take a flip through the SRD/MM and tell me these don't look more like Lovecraftian aberrations than being in the same stable as Unicorns and Worgs.

I like my unicorns to be Fey, sometimes.