51 Diplomacy Bard Using only 3.5 Players Handbook

[Hexblade]

Okay, I have a challenge for all of you. I am going to make a DOP (Diplomacy Optimized Bard), but I need your help. I'm going to start with around 20,000 gold, max. Seventh level, too. So here's where it gets tricky. All I can use is the 3.5 Player's Handbook, and maybe a few feats from other sourcebooks. So any ideas will work, just throw some out. Anyways, I already got a person with 63 Diplomacy:


1 (+1 Ring (Forge Ring Feat))
1 (+1 Ring (Forge Ring Feat))
2 (Half-Elf)
2 (5 Ranks Bluff)
2 (5 Ranks Sense Motive)
2 (5 Ranks Knowledge: Nobility)
2 (Negotiator Feat)
2 (Masterwork Tool)
2 (Eagle's Splendor)
2 (+2 Ring (Forge Ring Feat))
2 (Heroism)
2 (Aid Another)
2 (Inspire Competance)
3 (+3 Ring (Forge Ring Feat))
3 (Skill Focus: Diplomacy)
3 (Circlet of Persuasion)
4 (18/19 Charisma)
10 (10 Ranks Diplomacy)
15 (Item Familiar Feat w/ Protection Ring)
___
(w/ other sourcebooks)
63 (Once per Day)
58 (w/ Help)
54 (All the Time)
(w/o other sourcebooks)
46 (Once per Day)
41 (w/ Help)
39 (All the Time)

Rushed (On average roll of 10):
See Auto

Auto:
Hostile to Helpful (Once per Day)
Hostile to Helpful (With Help)
Hostile to Helpful (All the Time)
Hostile to Friendly (Once per Day(w/o other sourcebooks))
Hostile to Friendly (With Help(w/o other sourcebooks))
Hostile to Friendly (All the Time(w/o other sourcebooks))
Unfriendly to Helpful
Indifferent to Helpful
Friendly to Helpful

Take 10:
Hostile to Helpful
Unfriendly to Helpful
Indifferent to Helpful
Friendly to Helpful

Take 20:
Hostile to Helpful
Unfriendly to Helpful
Indifferent to Helpful
Friendly to Helpful

Net Cost:
18050 gp

And I think that's all you need to know. Thanks!

[Forrestfire]

You forgot your masterwork tool, for another +2.

[Extra Anchovies]

10 (+10 Magic Ring)
What? There aren't any magic items in the PHB, so by your OP you can't use this.

Otherwise, you seem to have everything. Why do you need our help?

[Endarire]

Joker Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?99903-Batman-s-Bane-The-Joker) - may it serve as an inspiration!

[Socratov]

Take a level of Warlock for the Beguiling Influence Invocation (both CArc, ask if you can use it) for an untyped +6 bonus to Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate. And then there are, if I'm not mistaken, some spells on the bard list that help with bluff/diplomacy

[Hexblade]

What? There aren't any magic items in the PHB, so by your OP you can't use this.

Otherwise, you seem to have everything. Why do you need our help?

Actually, you can buy magic items with +10 to a skill for 20,000 gold. I'm making a character from scratch, starting at level 7, so I can say I obtained it along the road. Here's a link:
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Skill_Boosting_Items_%283.5e_Other%29

To your second question, I just want some ideas, like skills I could use to have a boost in Diplomacy. For example, if you had Profession: Scribe, you may get a bonus to Forgery. Things like that. Use your imagination.

[Forrestfire]

That's homebrew. Dandwiki is a terrible source, use the d20srd (http://www.d20srd.org/) instead if looking for official rules.

In any case, the existence of +10 skill items is also a thing that depends on the DM's whims. There is no printed +10 Diplomacy item, although by the pricing guidelines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm), it would cost 10,000gp, not 20,000gp. It's also based on rules in the DMG, not the PHB, as are all magic items other than scrolls, potions, and wands, by virtue of their pricing rules being in the Feats section of the PHB.

[ComaVision]

A big one you missed is Item Familiar feat.

[Hiro Quester]

Casting Sirine's grace spell adds +4 to CHA and Dex, and adds CHA bonus to AC.

SO +2 to CHA, and to CHA related checks.

Nixie's grace adds +6 to CHA, so +3 to diplomacy checks.

Edit: also Apprentice feat (DMG II). Being apprenticed to an Entertainer for CHA mod days gives a +2 competence bonus on diplomacy checks.

[Hexblade]

Just saying, now that I've reached the level of auto hostile to helpful level, I'm making this in a guide for people like me, who can't use anything but the 3.5 Handbook...

[Janthkin]

Just saying, now that I've reached the level of auto hostile to helpful level, I'm making this in a guide for people like me, who can't use anything but the 3.5 Handbook...Item Familiar is not a PHB resource.

[Hexblade]

Then where is it from? I got it from d20srd.com, which uses strictly 3.5 rules on the main part of their site.

EDIT: Sorry, you're right, it's from Unearthed Arcana

[Troacctid]

It's from Unearthed Arcana.

The SRD includes rules from the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, Monster Manual, Unearthed Arcana, Expanded Psionics Handbook, Epic Level Handbook, and Deities & Demigods.

[Saintheart]

Casting Sirine's grace spell adds +4 to CHA and Dex, and adds CHA bonus to AC.

From memory Sirine's Grace adds +4 to CHA and DEX as enhancement bonuses, which wouldn't stack with most magic items boosting stats. That said, I love its +8 to Perform checks in combination with Fugue. Either way, they're both spells from the Spell Compendium, not the PHB.

[Hexblade]

Which means that I'm probably not going to be able to use it. I'd be lucky if my DM lets me take 2 feats from other sourcebooks...

[Ruslan]

Circlet of Persuasion and Inspire Competence don't stack. Both bolded are Competence Bonus. A custom magic item akin to a Ring of Jumping would also be a Competence bonus, unfortunately.

The best I could get without cheating, and without Item Familiars (which are, let's face it, another form of cheating), and with non-core content kept to a minimum, was +50

Half-Elf Warlock 1/Bard 6

Cha 18 + 4 Eagle Splendor spell = 22

+6 Charisma modifier
+10 ranks
+2 Half-Elf (Racial Bonus)
+3 Skill Focus (Untyped Bonus)
+2 Negotiator (Untyped Bonus)
+10 Skill item (Competence Bonus) (costs 10K gp, so 10K gp left to spend)
+3 5 ranks in Bluff (Untyped Bonus) (+3 instead of +2 due to Complementary Insight)
+3 5 ranks in Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) (Untyped Bonus) (+3 instead of +2 due to Complementary Insight)
+3 5 ranks in Sense Motive (Untyped Bonus) (+3 instead of +2 due to Complementary Insight)
+2 Aid Another (Untyped Bonus)
+6 Beguiling Influence (Untyped Bonus)

Total +50

A few notes:
- The bonus to Charisma from Eagle Splendor is Enhancement. Further Enhancement bonuses to Charisma (eg. Cloak of Charisma) are useless unless you manage to get one that exceeds +4
- There aready is +10 Competence Bonus. Further Competence Bonuses are useless unless you manage to get one that exceeds +10
- Three feats were already taken. Unless Flaws are on the table, no more feats.
- Non-core content was kept to a minimum (a single level of Warlock and Complementary Insight from Races of Destiny)

Edit: a cleric does it better

With two spells, Guidance of the Avatar (+20 Competence), and Divine Insight (+12 Enhancement), he's able to pull far ahead of the Bard.

Cleric 6/Warlock 1, Half-Elf

+6 Charisma (18 original + 4 Eagle's Splendor)
+10 Ranks
+2 Half-Elf
+12 Divine Insight
+20 Guidance of the Avatar
+9 Synergies as above
+3 Skill Focus
+6 Beguiling Influence

Total of +68.

[Crake]

Last I checked warlock is not in the phb.

Also, a bard cannot inspire competence himself guys. Come on, that's basic, how have you all forgotten that.


A bard can’t inspire competence in himself.

[Platymus Pus]

That's homebrew. Dandwiki is a terrible source, use the d20srd (http://www.d20srd.org/) instead if looking for official rules.

In any case, the existence of +10 skill items is also a thing that depends on the DM's whims. There is no printed +10 Diplomacy item, although by the pricing guidelines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm), it would cost 10,000gp, not 20,000gp. It's also based on rules in the DMG, not the PHB, as are all magic items other than scrolls, potions, and wands, by virtue of their pricing rules being in the Feats section of the PHB.

He should be able to get a +30 diplomacy item if he had the money.

[Crake]

He should be able to get a +30 diplomacy item if he had the money.

It is worth noting that convention suggests that to make an item of +X to a skill you must have at least X ranks in that skill, so finding a level 27 character from which you can source a +30 item from may prove problematic.

[Socratov]

Circlet of Persuasion and Inspire Competence don't stack. Both bolded are Competence Bonus. A custom magic item akin to a Ring of Jumping would also be a Competence bonus, unfortunately.

The best I could get without cheating, and without Item Familiars (which are, let's face it, another form of cheating), and with non-core content kept to a minimum, was +50

Half-Elf Warlock 1/Bard 6

Cha 18 + 4 Eagle Splendor spell = 22

+6 Charisma modifier
+10 ranks
+2 Half-Elf (Racial Bonus)
+3 Skill Focus (Untyped Bonus)
+2 Negotiator (Untyped Bonus)
+10 Skill item (Competence Bonus) (costs 10K gp, so 10K gp left to spend)
+3 5 ranks in Bluff (Untyped Bonus) (+3 instead of +2 due to Complementary Insight)
+3 5 ranks in Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) (Untyped Bonus) (+3 instead of +2 due to Complementary Insight)
+3 5 ranks in Sense Motive (Untyped Bonus) (+3 instead of +2 due to Complementary Insight)
+2 Aid Another (Untyped Bonus)
+6 Beguiling Influence (Untyped Bonus)

Total +50

A few notes:
- The bonus to Charisma from Eagle Splendor is Enhancement. Further Enhancement bonuses to Charisma (eg. Cloak of Charisma) are useless unless you manage to get one that exceeds +4
- There aready is +10 Competence Bonus. Further Competence Bonuses are useless unless you manage to get one that exceeds +10
- Three feats were already taken. Unless Flaws are on the table, no more feats.
- Non-core content was kept to a minimum (a single level of Warlock and Complementary Insight from Races of Destiny)

Edit: a cleric does it better

With two spells, Guidance of the Avatar (+20 Competence), and Divine Insight (+12 Enhancement), he's able to pull far ahead of the Bard.

Cleric 6/Warlock 1, Half-Elf

+6 Charisma (18 original + 4 Eagle's Splendor)
+10 Ranks
+2 Half-Elf
+12 Divine Insight
+20 Guidance of the Avatar
+9 Synergies as above
+3 Skill Focus
+6 Beguiling Influence

Total of +68.

well, I guess you can fit a wand of guidance of the avatar in there...

[Ruslan]

well, I guess you can fit a wand of guidance of the avatar in there...
And suddently, Skill Focus: UMD becomes more important that Skill Focus: Diplomacy :smallbiggrin:

But no, seriously, you can make DC 20 UMD checks easily by level 7 (10 ranks + 22 Charisma are +19 alone), so, yeah, Bard + Wands works great.

[Hexblade]

Last I checked warlock is not in the phb.

Also, a bard cannot inspire competence himself guys. Come on, that's basic, how have you all forgotten that.
I meant teaming with another bard. My party has like 10-15 people, so chances of a bard are high. Last campaign we had like 3 monks. :tongue:

[Ruslan]

I meant teaming with another bard. My party has like 10-15 people, so chances of a bard are high.
Even from another Bard, it will still be a Competence Bonus, which is the easiest type to get, and therefore useless. You can get a Competence Bonus higher than +2 from many types of different items, most of which are easy to get within your alloted gold.