How to Plane Shift at will?

[Abd al-Azrad]

Hi Playground,

Pathfinder thread. My DM is running a high-level game in which our party (two 19th-level wizards and one witch + damage dealers) is engaged in a large-scale war with six epic liches and their entire empire. It's pretty fun, pretty close to what I imagine a Tippyverse-style game would be, except that we don't all understand all the mechanics of the Tippyverse and we're basically learning as we go.

Anyway, the first wave of attacks the lich army has launched requires the constant applications of Plane Shift or similar planar transport against a specific demiplane. They are trying to time their assault based on when our demiplane lowers its Dimensional Lock defenses. The lich army has decided to do so by brute force, casting Plane Shift into our demiplane every round constantly until its defenses lower (i.e. when we decide to leave). It's basically the same tactic that Apophis uses in Stargate SG1, where his first tactic upon learning of Earth is to beam nuclear weapons every few seconds into Earth's Stargate for a week or two.

My question is: How could they do this? My Google-fu has failed me to find a non-deity that can cast Plane Shift at will, or any similar spell (in fact, the deities which can cast Plane Shift at will, which I have found, can only target specific planes).

Note that I am not asking to foil my DM - I assume that if there is no non-canonical being that can do so, he will invent one that can (six epic liches can find or create anything, that's unpleasant but fair). I'm asking to figure out if there is a way to reconcile this particular power with the existing Pathfinder canon.

Thanks all!

[jiriku]

The classical method of producing repeating magical effects in the Tippyverse is a magic trap. Any spell can be placed in a magic trap, including plane shift. You step on a trigger plate, the trap produces the spell effect, the trap resets. The next round, you're still standing on the trigger plate, so the trap goes off again.

Are you also using 3.5 splatbooks as resources? If so, your DM might be using energy transformation field from the Spell Compendium, which is basically a magic trap produced by a spell.

[icefractal]

Custom item is one possibility, and if 3.x stuff is being used, it might not even need to be custom (Spell Clock, Trap, etc).

Another is simply enough minions and/or charged items. You need about 14K Plane Shift attempts a day. That would be:
* One Couatl minion (at will). Maybe two, so they can trade shifts. There are several monsters that have this, but the Couatl is the lowest CR one I've found.
* 600 Dimensional Shambler minions (1/hour). Not nearly as efficient, but they're more precise than normal Plane Shift.
* ~5K Cleric 9 minions (3/day). Less if higher level.
* ~16M worth of scrolls a day. Very expensive, but not impossible for an empire.
* ~300M worth of Staffs, but that's a one-time purchase. And ~14K 1st level caster minions to recharge them. Probably a better investment than the scrolls.
* Astral Projection cheese to use the same few scrolls/slots 14K times. Easy to do, although it does open the door to NI loops.

Of those above, the Couatl minion is definitely the cheapest option; the Staffs have one advantage though, in that one of the Liches can be the one triggering them, therefore having a sky-high CL to punch through defenses when that matters.

[Xan_Kriegor]

Your post tag says Pathfinder, yeah? There's the Amulet of the Planes (120k) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amulet-of-the-planes) which is probably what they're using. As far as I can tell it's at-will Plane Shift if you can make a DC 15 INT check reliably which they probably can. There's also the budget Robe of Stars (58k) (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/robe-of-stars) but that's limited to going to and from the Astral Plane.

There's also the major artifact Codex of the Infinite Planes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/artifacts/major-artifacts/codex-of-the-infinite-planes) which is pretty snazzy, but also probably not worth activating repeatedly for fear of rolling a natural 1 on the spellcraft check.

EDIT: What does your Dimensional Lock defense come down for, outside reinforcements or does it just take a lot of casts to keep it up? Something to mention just so you're aware is the possibility of using Greater Create Demiplane (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-demiplane) to make your plane have dead magic. Looking at the rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/the-planes#TOC-Magic-Traits) for dead magic, you can't be divined and people can't teleport in and out which seems like what you're asking for. You'd want to set up a permanent gate to get out which does generate an obviously huge security flaw, but it is something to think about.

[icefractal]

Something to mention just so you're aware is the possibility of using Greater Create Demiplane (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/create-demiplane) to make your plane have dead magic. Looking at the rules (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/the-planes#TOC-Magic-Traits) for dead magic, you can't be divined and people can't teleport in and out which seems like what you're asking for. You'd want to set up a permanent gate to get out which does generate an obviously huge security flaw, but it is something to think about.A good point I forgot to mention. If you have access to that spell, you can do some really interesting things with demiplane placement.

A very basic entry mechanism.
Plane 1: Barred Magic (everything except Conjuration). Is a simple entry chamber with a permanent portal to ...
Plane 2: Barred Magic (Conjuration). Is your base.

So now the only way to enter your base is the entry room, where they won't have magic other than Conjuration. So, put a bunch of defenses right up against the Plane 2 side of the portal. I suggest a Prismatic Wall with a Wall of Force behind it. They can't dispel either, because Abjuration doesn't function on their side of the doorway. They can't attack the Wall of Force because the Prismatic Wall is in the way, and they can't just run through the Prismatic Wall because of the Wall of Force. Fell free to stick more barriers if you can afford it.

When you want to enter your own base, you plane shift to the entry room, say the password, and a construct on Plane 2 hears that and shuts down the barrier. Make sure the Wall of Force isn't quite flush, so there's a gap for sound to make it through.

It's not a foolproof defense - Wish can still get someone in, for one thing. And an enemy that finds all your entrance planes can send forces to occupy them and prevent you getting to your own plane. But other than that, with enough spells you can create an arbitrarily large amount of entrance chambers that any invaders have to go through, with different properties and defenses in each one.

[Abd al-Azrad]

Great feedback guys, you've certainly answered my question. Of course I was not expecting a full list of all possible ways to do this, but the several options already stated provide a thorough explanation and satisfy my curiosity.

Regarding the defenses, I'm basically taking the position that there is nothing I can do to stop an epic lich attack, merely to slow it down to the point that I can Plane Shift back and interfere directly. As such I chose not to make the plane Dead Magic, because I'm pretty ineffective in that battlefield. So are liches, of course, but they could be fielding an unknown number of minions specifically chosen for the effectiveness in an Antimagic Field, etc.


A very basic entry mechanism.
Plane 1: Barred Magic (everything except Conjuration). Is a simple entry chamber with a permanent portal to ...
Plane 2: Barred Magic (Conjuration). Is your base.


I did not know CGD could do this. By my reading, I could make these schools Impeded Magic or Enhanced Magic, for minor boosts to CL. But if I want to turn off magic, I have to turn off all magic.

Jiriku, FYI, no 3.5 materials, we're trying to stick to "core+" PF - the Core book, APG, UC and UM, Ultimate Equipment.

Thanks Icefractal, Jiriku and Xan!

[Psyren]

A better way to turn off enemy spellcasting is via Hallow/Unhallow + AMF. You will need several castings to cover a demiplane (and advanced geometry to eliminate any coverage gaps) but the benefit is that you and anyone who shares your faith will be unaffected. From there, simply worship yourself, or something sufficiently obscure that travelers will not be able to gain their casting that way. Hallow is instantaneous and therefore cannot be dispelled, though of course any dispel not cast by you would be suppressed anyway.

As for at-will Plane Shift, Dimensional Shamblers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/dimensional-shambler) can do this (with pinpoint accuracy no less) but only 1/hour, and each one can grapple a creature to bring with them. Binding a small army of these and using extradimensional storage shenanigans should get you a planar taxi service. They're also all-but-guaranteed a surprise round when they arrive to dump their contents thanks to the big initiative bonus.

[Evolved Shrimp]

probably not worth activating repeatedly for fear of rolling a natural 1 on the spellcraft check.

IIRC, skill checks differ from saves in that natural 1s do not create automatic failures (just like natural 20s do not mean automatic success). AFB at the moment, though, so I’m not sure.

That said, the DCs for the Codex are pretty steep, and it is a major artifact, so it may not be the most straightforward solution.

Also, the Codex is very large, too large to easily take along. This may or may not be a problem – the rules say that the owner (not, e.g., the bearer) has access to the spells it contains, so it may suffice to simply store it somewhere safe – but should be clarified with the DM before you invest time or resources to acquire the Codex.

[icefractal]

I did not know CGD could do this. By my reading, I could make these schools Impeded Magic or Enhanced Magic, for minor boosts to CL. But if I want to turn off magic, I have to turn off all magic. My mistake, I was mixing it up with Limited Magic.

In that case, the closest you could get to that type of entrance is to make the interior of the base Dead Magic, and have a couple more planes stuck between the two.
A - B - C - D
A: Entrance room, normal traits.
B: Dead magic plane, just a small hallway connecting B and C that goes around a 90' corner.
C: Defense room, normal traits. The portals between B and D are just a few inches apart, with the aforementioned wall spells between them. All other space in the room is filled (with Ghost Touch items/creatures) so nobody can Plane Shift into it.
D: Interior of the base, dead magic.

But that has the significant problem that your base is a dead magic zone. So maybe this would be better just to secure a vault.

[Xan_Kriegor]

IIRC, skill checks differ from saves in that natural 1s do not create automatic failures (just like natural 20s do not mean automatic success). AFB at the moment, though, so I’m not sure.

That said, the DCs for the Codex are pretty steep, and it is a major artifact, so it may not be the most straightforward solution.

Also, the Codex is very large, too large to easily take along. This may or may not be a problem – the rules say that the owner (not, e.g., the bearer) has access to the spells it contains, so it may suffice to simply store it somewhere safe – but should be clarified with the DM before you invest time or resources to acquire the Codex.

Ah, forgot that natural 1s/20s didn't apply to skill checks. I searched the skills (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills) page and saw no mention of automatic successes/failures so it seems you're right.

Also make sure to check with the DM which spell level plane shift (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/plane-shift) uses, I remember seeing an assumed order to the spellcasting classes for which one to use by default but I can't find it.

Pssht, it only weighs 300 pounds. Slap a permanencied enlarge person on a minion, hand 'em a belt of strength and call it good. :smalltongue: My interpretation of the power-gaining was that the reader gained it permanently regardless of whether or not they still owned the Codex since (1) it makes no mention of them losing the powers and (2) the verbiage used is simply the easiest way to get the point across. Plus then you don't have shenanigans like "person 1 made the check to learn the power but they were just borrowing the codex from person 2 so person 2 actually gains the power" or something similarly silly.

[Jack_Simth]

Another way to do it would be to get control of an Astral Deva (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/angel/astral-deva), probably easiest via Simulacrum. At-will Plane Shift, as the spell... which does NOT require the caster come along. Faster and less expensive to make than a trap - the final Simulacrum has 7 hit dice, so costs 3,500 gp in components and the 12 hour casting time. An automatic reset magic device trap would cost spell level * caster level * 500 gp to craft = 5*9*500=22,500 and the associated 45 days to craft. The Amulet of the Planes is expensive too.

[Abd al-Azrad]

Incidentally, I am loving that the most apparently efficient way to do this is to bind angels or LG messengers of the Gods and force them to do your bidding. It is horrible and hilarious that evil liches would be doing such a thing.

I had totally forgotten the auto-resetting magic traps that are so central to the Tippyverse, as this is my first game in which either players or DMs in my group are actually using such tactics. Those mechanics are clearly Core Pathfinder, and while quite expensive, their existence opens up so many new options I had never considered before. And I pretend to call myself an arcane caster. Hah!

Tip of the hat to Jack_Simth, good to see you still here.