Item creation

[badgerman]

I'm trying to prepare some cool magic items for my group but i don't know the rules for creating items that good.
So here are the questions:

Does an improved improvised weapon, for example a masterwork shovel, qualify by RAW to craft a magic weapon using the 'Craft Magic Arms and Armor'-feat ?

And if so, is it possible to use different item creation feats on one item, for example use 'Craft Wonderous Item' on the same shovel ?

[The Evil DM]

If you are DM and trying to create items for the group throw out the item creation rules. They don't matter. Make a good story tie it to the item and make it what you want it to be. Here are a few from my campaigns.

Ring of Dwarf Fingers

This is a large iron key ring threaded through five fingers. All that is known is that the fingers can be removed and grafted to a hand replacing missing fingers.

Powers

Replace Fingers
The "Fingers" change finger/thumb type depending on need.

Necarus Skull

This ornate golden human skull is lifesize, realistically carved and heavy. The top of the skull is removable revealing a bowl like interior. It weighs 30lbs.

Powers

When used at a druidic shrine, a druid may spill blood into the bowl and experience a divination revealing details about the surrounding lands via Commune with Nature spell 1x/day

Nosering of Scent

This magical nosering is worn by Whinn. It allows him to track by scent and gives a bonus to his tracking skill when tracking particularly smelly creatures.

Powers

Scent Ability from MM
+2 to all tracking rolls
Sliding bonus based on smell adjudicated on case by case basis - Whinn can track skunks very well.

Lesser Thieves Amulet

A rogues amulet is an item prized by theives. It grants the wearer bonuses to core thief skills. Whisper wears this item

Powers

+2 to Disable Device
+2 to Hide
+2 to Move Silently
+2 to Open Locks
+2 to Sleight of Hand

Boots of Speed

These leather boots are made for walking..... very fast. These boots allow the wearer to traverse terrain at double normal movement speed. (including effects for encumbrance) but for every hour, or fraction thereof, of marching at these rates the wearer must rest for a full hour.

These boots may not be used for more than 8 continuous hours.

These boots can be used in combat but even one minute of combat will result in an hour rest.

Powers

Fast Overland Movement
Size Alteration
Curse: When activated these boots make the wearer's footsteps appear to sound the same as a herd of stampeding elephants

Barrel of Rolling

This non-descript barrel has powerful enchantments. From the outside it appears to be a standard 55 gallon barrel. It is about 3 feet tall and 2 feet in diameter. However it has no visible openings.

Using the command word, the barrel can be commanded to open, close, lock and unlock. The barrel holds up to seven cubic feet. No matter how much material is put into the barrel the barrel remains weightless to whom ever needs to move or pick it up.

A second command phrase will cause the barrel to roll. It will follow the individually who commanded it, unerringly moving through obstacles and terrain.

Courtesan Cream

This magical lotion is a favorite amongst high class courtesans and geisha. When applied it produces a pleasant fragrance, enhancing the courtesan's allure. It also provides protection against any diseases, and the effects of drugs or alcohol imbibed in the performance of her profession.

The jar of cream has enough for 15 applications.

Powers

Works for Females only

+2 Charisma
+2 Seduction Skill
+4 Fortitude vs Drugs and Alcohol
Protection from Disease


Lucky Ring

This ring is lucky....

Powers

The wearer may add +1 to any d20 roll once per game day.

And for something a little more powerful

Fan of Song Fang

The Fan of Song Fang is a blue and green silk fan carried by the Pirate Lord Song Fang. While frequently mocked for his carrying his Geisha Fan, what other pirate lords failed to understand was, the fan was the secret behind Song Fang’s success as a pirate.

The Fan is possessed by an air spirit, trapped long ago by a WuJen. This gives the owner of the fan great power over the wind. No other pirate could sail against the wind so well, nor could any other pirate match the speed of Song Fang’s flagship. The secret of Song Fang was the Fan

By using the fan from the helm of his ship, the fan would propel the ship in any direction desired. Even against the most powerful winds.

Powers

The Fan can be used to propel a sailing vessel at any speed up to the maximum speed of the vessel. When used in this manner the vessel is not affected by natural winds, however it can still be capsized by stormy seas.

At any time, the fan can create a Gust of Wind as if the user of the fan were a 15th level spell caster

At any time, the fan can be used to Calm Wind as if the user of the fan were a 15th level spell caster

The fan can be used to create a Wall of Wind as if the user of the fan were a 15th level spell caster, but using the fan in this manner tires out the spirit and leaves it non-magical for 24 hours.

The fan can be used to create a Whirlwind as if the caster were a 15th level spell caster, but using the fan in this manner tires out the spirit within the fan and leaves it non-magical for a month (32 days)

[badgerman]

Well I am impressed. Wonderful selection.

I can understand that it should be more important to have cool items for the campaign, than creating them by RAW.
For me it is also very important, that my players believe me the same rules counting for them are counting for me. I don't like it to tell them they can't do things my npcs can do even when they meet the prereqs.

[The Evil DM]

Problem is,

The 3.5x item creation rules are broken (IMO) and only result in boring crap you will find in the DMG. Oh gee another +1 slick leather armor, or another arrow of flaming burst.

Two things to consider.

1) If the item is old and ancient maybe the way it was made is lost to antiquity. Who knows how the Air Spirit was trapped in the Fan of Song Fang. If they really want to know how it was made, make it a quest to some long lost monastery deep in the bamboo forests where the players might get attacked by ninja werepandas.

2) The reason the 3.5 item creation system blows chunks is they removed all the story out of it. Do some research on the mystical property of crystals and various metals. Do some research on the how elements have been used in real shamanistic practices and weave that stuff into the creation of the items.

I once had a player approach an evil wizard requesting that the wizard make an intelligent sword dedicated to troll slaying. The wizard told the player to collect special metal from the dwarves of the razor peaks, return and as the warrior forged the blade the wizard would cast the enchantments but that would not be the end. The warrior must then infuse the blade with power and hatred of trolls by hunting and killing 100 trolls.

After completing all the tasks and killing the 100'th troll, the warriors soul was sucked into the weapon and its enchantment complete. The wizard had created an intelligent weapon that was dedicated to killing trolls.

Now - isn't that story much better than:

Well, you spend 1000xp and 5000 gold and you now have a +2 plate armor with light fortification.

[frogglesmash]

I agree with most of the above, when creating cool magic items you are completely within your rights to throw the rules out the window. The only exception in my opinion is if you expect the item to be super common in your campaign setting in which case it would make sense for the formula for the item to be common knowledge in the appropriate circles. Even then you don't necessarily need to follow the rules to the letter, in fact I'm pretty sure the game devs ignored the rules more often than not when writing the DMG.

[Socratov]

If you are DM and trying to create items for the group throw out the item creation rules. They don't matter. Make a good story tie it to the item and make it what you want it to be. Here are a few from my campaigns.

Ring of Dwarf Fingers

This is a large iron key ring threaded through five fingers. All that is known is that the fingers can be removed and grafted to a hand replacing missing fingers.

Powers

Replace Fingers
The "Fingers" change finger/thumb type depending on need.

Necarus Skull

This ornate golden human skull is lifesize, realistically carved and heavy. The top of the skull is removable revealing a bowl like interior. It weighs 30lbs.

Powers

When used at a druidic shrine, a druid may spill blood into the bowl and experience a divination revealing details about the surrounding lands via Commune with Nature spell 1x/day

Nosering of Scent

This magical nosering is worn by Whinn. It allows him to track by scent and gives a bonus to his tracking skill when tracking particularly smelly creatures.

Powers

Scent Ability from MM
+2 to all tracking rolls
Sliding bonus based on smell adjudicated on case by case basis - Whinn can track skunks very well.

Lesser Thieves Amulet

A rogues amulet is an item prized by theives. It grants the wearer bonuses to core thief skills. Whisper wears this item

Powers

+2 to Disable Device
+2 to Hide
+2 to Move Silently
+2 to Open Locks
+2 to Sleight of Hand

Boots of Speed

These leather boots are made for walking..... very fast. These boots allow the wearer to traverse terrain at double normal movement speed. (including effects for encumbrance) but for every hour, or fraction thereof, of marching at these rates the wearer must rest for a full hour.

These boots may not be used for more than 8 continuous hours.

These boots can be used in combat but even one minute of combat will result in an hour rest.

Powers

Fast Overland Movement
Size Alteration
Curse: When activated these boots make the wearer's footsteps appear to sound the same as a herd of stampeding elephants

Barrel of Rolling

This non-descript barrel has powerful enchantments. From the outside it appears to be a standard 55 gallon barrel. It is about 3 feet tall and 2 feet in diameter. However it has no visible openings.

Using the command word, the barrel can be commanded to open, close, lock and unlock. The barrel holds up to seven cubic feet. No matter how much material is put into the barrel the barrel remains weightless to whom ever needs to move or pick it up.

A second command phrase will cause the barrel to roll. It will follow the individually who commanded it, unerringly moving through obstacles and terrain.

Courtesan Cream

This magical lotion is a favorite amongst high class courtesans and geisha. When applied it produces a pleasant fragrance, enhancing the courtesan's allure. It also provides protection against any diseases, and the effects of drugs or alcohol imbibed in the performance of her profession.

The jar of cream has enough for 15 applications.

Powers

Works for Females only

+2 Charisma
+2 Seduction Skill
+4 Fortitude vs Drugs and Alcohol
Protection from Disease


Lucky Ring

This ring is lucky....

Powers

The wearer may add +1 to any d20 roll once per game day.

And for something a little more powerful

Fan of Song Fang

The Fan of Song Fang is a blue and green silk fan carried by the Pirate Lord Song Fang. While frequently mocked for his carrying his Geisha Fan, what other pirate lords failed to understand was, the fan was the secret behind Song Fang’s success as a pirate.

The Fan is possessed by an air spirit, trapped long ago by a WuJen. This gives the owner of the fan great power over the wind. No other pirate could sail against the wind so well, nor could any other pirate match the speed of Song Fang’s flagship. The secret of Song Fang was the Fan

By using the fan from the helm of his ship, the fan would propel the ship in any direction desired. Even against the most powerful winds.

Powers

The Fan can be used to propel a sailing vessel at any speed up to the maximum speed of the vessel. When used in this manner the vessel is not affected by natural winds, however it can still be capsized by stormy seas.

At any time, the fan can create a Gust of Wind as if the user of the fan were a 15th level spell caster

At any time, the fan can be used to Calm Wind as if the user of the fan were a 15th level spell caster

The fan can be used to create a Wall of Wind as if the user of the fan were a 15th level spell caster, but using the fan in this manner tires out the spirit and leaves it non-magical for 24 hours.

The fan can be used to create a Whirlwind as if the caster were a 15th level spell caster, but using the fan in this manner tires out the spirit within the fan and leaves it non-magical for a month (32 days)

You know, some of these descriptions feel a bit runway-esque. So I hope you don't mind me imgaining a fashion show, showing off all the items...

[badgerman]

Hehe remembering some quests from mmorpgs right at the moment :smalltongue:

As said before I don't know much about the item creation, so I believe you are right when saying it is broken.

One thought about it: I think the creation rules were made to keep items straight, so if you want to have an item with an ability as powerful as blabla you have to pay blabla xp and blabla gold.
No one prohibits to give the item a story behind the costs.
The pro is that you can compare the items with each other. If a player character wants to create an item, he knows that there is no arbitrariness ruling how difficult it is and if they find an item I created and they don't like it what's the gold they could get when selling it?

[The Evil DM]

You know, some of these descriptions feel a bit runway-esque. So I hope you don't mind me imgaining a fashion show, showing off all the items...

Some of them came from a storyline we ran with all rogues, thieves and assassins in an Asian styled setting. Geisha houses, triad bosses and all sorts of fun unsavory underworld activities. One character ended up with a magical opium pipe.

[Uncle Pine]

First of all, I admire your decision to place on yourself the same restrictions of your players. I recognize that it might make things more complicated at times, but I concur that it gives an additional layer of internal consistency to the campaign's world.
Still, remember that the rules for creating magic items are technically guidelines, so if you feel that a custom item is woefully under/overpriced, you can simply set his price differently for PCs and NPCs as well. I think that the item creation rules are reasonably balanced if you don't purposely try to break them, but your mileage may vary.


Does an improved weapon, for example a masterwork shovel, qualify by RAW to craft a magic weapon using the 'Craft Magic Arms and Armor'-feat ?
A shovel is an improvised weapon and thus can be crafted as a masterwork weapon. Also, mithral and adamantine shovels are automatically considered masterwork weapons.


And if so, is it possible to use different item creation feats on one item, for example use 'Craft Wonderous Item' on the same shovel ?

You don't mix creation feats when you craft "weird" items. If you want to craft a +1 longsword that also shoots fireballs 3 times/day, you are still crafting a weapon, not a wondrous item. To price such an item, you should refer to the rules/guidelines about creating magic items. This can get complicated at times, but if you have a specific idea we can help you running the calcs.

[The Evil DM]

The pro is that you can compare the items with each other. If a player character wants to create an item, he knows that there is no arbitrariness ruling how difficult it is and if they find an item I created and they don't like it what's the gold they could get when selling it?

Actually it doesn't do this well either.

Take for instance the armor enchantment - Fortification, Light. It adds a virtual +1 to the value of an item.

If you put Fortification, Light on a +1 item, the extra enchantment increases the cost of the item by 3000gp
If you put it on a +2 item, the cost increase is 5000gp
If you put it on a +3 item, the cost increase is 7000gp
If you put it on a +4 item, the cost increase is 9000gp
If you put it on a +5 item, the cost increase is 11000gp

The enchantment has a 25% chance to cancel critical hits. It's effect is constant, and the underlying value of the armor is arbitrary because if you are canceling a critical hit the opponent has already hit you.

The biggest flaw in magical treasures I find in 3.5 is thus.

The DMG proposes under wealth by level that items should be found at particular frequencies. If you look at treasure generation as it stands every 5th level warrior and his brother has a +1 something.

But, the item creation rules state that creating every item has an xp cost.

So - Where are all these wizards, clerics and what-not getting all this xp to burn on creating items.

Now I do agree with you that there should be some consistency, but the system in 3.5 doesn't work. I use real world references for various items to create the consistency.

For instance, Hematite is supposed to be good for the blood and have healing properties, as does Honey. Thus in my world powdered Hematite and Honey are used as ingredients in healing potions. There is a set process for making healing potions. It is the same every time. Several alternative ingredients have been found to make slightly better or worse healing potions.

If your concern is balance, giving away a few skill points won't unbalance the game. An item that grants the use of a feat. A ring that allows one to use Nunchaku like Bruce Lee (free exotic weapon proficiency) wont break the game.

The powers on an item are not what your players will remember. It is the what and how they got it. The magical drinking horn of endless ale constructed from a horn hacked off a gorgon will be more memorable and more unique than any rules bound item.

[badgerman]

A shovel is an improvised weapon and thus can be crafted as a masterwork weapon. Also, mithral and adamantine shovels are automatically considered masterwork weapons.

This can get complicated at times, but if you have a specific idea we can help you running the calcs.

Thanks a lot :smallsmile:

aehem :smallredface: improvised - improved awkward

I am just thinking about some surprising magic items being different from what you might expect. Nothing specific at the moment but thanks for the offer.

[Uncle Pine]

The powers on an item are not what your players will remember. It is the what and how they got it. The magical drinking horn of endless ale constructed from a horn hacked off a gorgon will be more memorable and more unique than any rules bound item.

Well that simply depends on your ability as a DM to describe and present magic items: players surely won't remember the +1, +2, +3, +4 or +5 longsword they found in the X dungeon as part of the Y random loot, but they should at least be pumped up by the Ruby of Power, a magical stone that can be inserted into any weapon that is at least masterwork and let you supersize it once a day, increasing it to enormous proportion (15+ ft.) without bestowing any penalty to you (actually a +1 sizing dragonshard pommel stone that once a day can cast Enlarge weapon at CL 10) that they got as part of a "catch-'n'-fetch 'em all" quest.
Also why the hell a horn hacked off a gorgon is preferred to construct a drinking horn of endless ale? Or was the gorgon magically attuned to the Elemental Plane of Ale?

EDIT:
Thanks a lot :smallsmile:
You're welcome.

[badgerman]

Actually it doesn't do this well either.

....

The powers on an item are not what your players will remember. It is the what and how they got it. The magical drinking horn of endless ale constructed from a horn hacked off a gorgon will be more memorable and more unique than any rules bound item.

You are nothing but right with what you are saying.
But at the moment I just want to create some items and no rules for my group, sorry.

[The Evil DM]

Well that simply depends on your ability as a DM to describe and present magic items: players surely won't remember the +1, +2, +3, +4 or +5 longsword they found in the X dungeon as part of the Y random loot, but they should at least be pumped up by the Ruby of Power, a magical stone that can be inserted into any weapon that is at least masterwork and let you supersize it once a day, increasing it to enormous proportion (15+ ft.) without bestowing any penalty to you (actually a +1 sizing dragonshard pommel stone that once a day can cast Enlarge weapon at CL 10) that they got as part of a "catch-'n'-fetch 'em all" quest.

I agree, if a DM hands out items without thought and just says, "Here is another +3 longword" it is meaningless. Providing the extra description is not what I am arguing.

I am stating that the system presented in 3.5 doesn't work. The system is not internally self-consistent. You state it is "Reasonably well balanced" I disagree.

I do however agree that an internally consistent system is good and a good thing to have.

Where I think the 3.5 system really loses out is the loss of symbolism, mysticism and spirit in the creation of a magical item.

A banner borne by elite soldiers in campaign after campaign begins to pull into the death of those around it. Over time not only does the banner represent the victories of this army, it begins to exude fear in enemies who gaze upon it for it weeps with the spirits of all those slain while the army marched under the standard.

How will the players make this item? Do they really need to make this item? Even though I agree that a system should be consistent players don't need to be able to construct all things. If the party comes across the Hand of Vecna should they be able to manufacture a copy?..... Sure - Become a lich, become as evil and as powerful as Vecna, and then be destroyed and only your eye and hand survives.

Another type of symbolism is personal risk in claiming a trophy.


Also why the hell a horn hacked off a gorgon is preferred to construct a drinking horn of endless ale? Or was the gorgon magically attuned to the Elemental Plane of Ale?

It need not be that the Gorgon is attuned to the plane of ale. A warrior seeks a horn from a creature of power for use in making this item. The greater the risk taken in claiming that horn the greater the power imbued in the trophy. So the warrior fights the gorgon solo armed with nothing but a shield and spear claims the horn and asks his friend to use it as the base component for an enchantment.

Alchemical systems in my campaigns are very consistent and much like chemistry but you need to infer magical properties of objects and items. I find that telling the players they find a rare tree that produces a symbiotic fungus useful in a variety of potion types helps to bring them more into the setting.

However, as items increase in power and rarity the players may have to delve into various forms of mysticism to figure out how an item works.

On the flip side, I give players a lot of leeway in creating items. If the players come up with a plan and process and fit it to the symbolism well I let it happen. Player once made it a daily point to paint a specific symbol on his shield meant to ward off evil. The player purchased the paint at every opportunity, carried with him, and was meticulous about this action in character.

“No - No - We can’t enter the dungeon until I paint my shield”

Over time I gave the shield minor properties. As the player continued to paint the shield I let the properties grow. More powerful shields became available through treasure but the player kept his shield because it was special, every battle was painted and the player relished every time he got to use the shield.

This to me is what is lost when one restricts item creation to the broken 3.5 system.

[Yahzi]

So - Where are all these wizards, clerics and what-not getting all this xp to burn on creating items.
This is the biggest issue in D&D. XP is the single most valuable resource, worth more than gold and magic and actions, because it makes all of those. So whoever controls the XP controls the world.

If XP comes from wandering the wild and killing monsters, then there is no such thing as a dynasty or royal blood line - because every ruler is supplanted by some wandering murder-hobo with real power.

Hence my simple solution: XP comes from people dying. Commoners are 1/2 CR creatures. When they die (hopefully of old age) they yield some XP. The local lord of the manor gets the XP of all his peasants (just as he gets their wheat and labor). This makes him high level. In return he protects them from creatures that would eat them for their XP (instead of waiting for them to die of old age). XP becomes a farmed resource, just like wheat or gold.

This makes everything work: why are their lords protecting peasants in the first place, instead of wandering around looking for treasure? Why are lords of big kingdoms more powerful than lords of small kingdoms? Why do so many monsters seem to exist off of people-hunting (when we know it makes no sense from a dietary standpoint)? Why can you buy and sell XP in the form of magic items (the DMG even establishes the exchange rate!)? Why can't everyone have levels (because you lose XP - it takes 13 times as much as you get from a 1st level to make a 1st level)? Why don't Shadow spawns take over the world (because Shadows are 3rd lvl and require lots of XP to make). Why does every big monster have 1,000s of gold pieces of treasure (because its the XP they've collected and saved so they can spawn a baby monster!). Why do Gods need followers (because they get a little of that Xp when the follower dies).

And for players, it's awesome. They can spend their XP on levels or magic items or levels for their followers or just trade it in for gold. The increase in agency improves game-play. The fact that you know the Count of 10,000 peasants is more powerful than the Baron of 1,000 lets them pick their own battles.

I really think the game was meant to be played this way. Everything just makes so much more sense.

[The Evil DM]

This is the biggest issue in D&D. XP is the single most valuable resource, worth more than gold and magic and actions, because it makes all of those. So whoever controls the XP controls the world.

You are making a simple economic argument, which ultimately is the second half of my own. - Symbolism is important, diamonds are rare - When a player needs thousands of gold worth of powdered diamond dust to create an item or spell the economics start to become an issue.

I don't follow wealth by level - at all - Also I don't really track XP anymore. I think the system is broken in other ways to make meaningful use of it. However, there are economic considerations in magic that prevent the abuse of high level power but still allow for a king to afford having his guards outfit in +2 items.

[The Evil DM]

You are nothing but right with what you are saying.
But at the moment I just want to create some items and no rules for my group, sorry.

I still stand by my original advice - which was not to come up with rules.

Think about what sounds fun, interesting and fits in the story. If you need to squeeze it into the rules fine but I think you are unnecessarily limiting yourself.

If not describe how the creator of the item made it and that is how it was made. If the players can repeat the process they can make one too.

[Uncle Pine]

-snip-
I want to make it clear that the following is not meant to be a critic to your work as a DM. It looks like you went into great details to construct an item creation system that combines the beauty that is going around gathering powerful and/or alchemical components and turn them into magical items or artifact with the power of magic, belief, sheer will or whatever seems fit. I imagine that you spent a lot of time trying to figure how one thing or another should work to not break the delicate balance you were creating without ignoring the issue that is consistency and I'm sure that you and your players thoroughly enjoy your system, but that's it. It's your system. When approaching a tabletop game like d&d, most Dungeon Masters prefer to refere to a consolidated system (the rules, either As Written or As Intended) instead of creating their own. This I suppose is because while mastering an already existing system is already an issue that every DM has to deal with, creating and balancing a whole new system takes a lot more effort on top of that. Many of us either don't have the time and/or the will to do that, or are satisfied with the system they have on hand and only slightly tune it to their needs (using houserules or homebrews).

[Disclaimer: the following descriptions are mostly subjective and based on fluff, as the system itself mostly give every DMs rules to build the fluff around, which I don't think it's a bad thing on its own]

About the consistency of the magic item creation rules in 3.x, they work assuming a world where magic is exponential, pragmatic and easily reproducible. The system is based on assumptions like that you can't enchant an item that's not masterwork because otherwise it wouldn't be able to sustain the energy you're trying to imbue it with, or that you need a weapon or armor to be at least +1 as a base to make further incantations stable enough to be permanent. Similarly, adding Light Fortification to a +1 armor is way easier and cheaper than adding it to a +2 or +3 armor much in the same way in which is way easier to plant a flag on a small hill than it is to do plant it on a mountain, or on Everest. Creating magic item takes so much effort because you aren't supposed to simply believe it to make it work: you need to invest your very life source and soul (experience points) to force magic to behave accordingly to your desires. Sometime it's easy, often less so.
The DMG proposes under wealth by level that items should be found at particular frequencies. It also assumes that there are enough wizards in the world to create these items and that they're well paid to do it. These wizards, clerics and what-not aren't obviously going to live everywhere: while some of them may in fact choose to live far from civilization experimenting on crazy things, the rest of them prefer to avoid to become the target of wandering murderhobos (read "adventurers") that might be interested in killing them to get the items for free and instead choose to live in village, cities and metropolies that can supply them. This is also why you can't buy every magic item in the world in First City (unless First City is Sigil): smaller cities mean smaller founds, which in returns mean less spellcasters (or weaker ones) and less magic items.
The DMG proposes the above under the assumption that you're playing in a stereotypical high-fantasy RPG world. It also proposes to scale down treasures if you are setting your campaign in a low-magic world, or to scale them up in settings where magic is more common. In a world where wizards are scarcer (i.e. Tolkien) there will be few wizards, while a world where magic items are the norm and magic runs rampart "Bob the Fighter without magic powers on his own" will be at best treated as a poor idiot (i.e. J.K. Rowling, Tippy) and the only relevant figures will be wizards, clerics and what-not.
Given the above, the DMG then proceeds to provide some examples of magic items to use in your campaigns. Should you need more, it even lists a few guidelines that you can use to create whatever fancy magic item should spring to your mind.

- "But how do I craft my crazy awesome sword made of X?"
Take your DMG (and MIC, if you have it on hand). Calculate the amount of gp and xp you need to craft your magic sword. If X isn't a special material with in-game properties (i.e. salt), note that the amount of gp you need to create an item is a mere representation of the in-game resources that your character needs to invest to create his cool item. The fact that the game doesn't tell you exactly what you are spending those on means that you can proceed (not that no game developer, even the most prepared, would include "salt" in the list of things you can craft magic sword with, but they managed to include this option). Track the price of X (the price of salt is in Sandstorm). Divide the amount of gp you need to craft your magic item by the price of X to find how much X you need to craft your fancy item. Go out and find said amount of X, which could require you to adventure in exotic places if X is one or more appendages of a Balor or be as simple as going to town to buy some salt. Congratulation, you can craft your item!
Now note that going into these details took time, and that while it's certainly possible to build entire adventures based on the fact that the cleric wants to use the guts of an ancient dragon to shade his armor all within the boundaries of rules, sometimes Bob just wants a friggin +2 sword and the rest of the players don't want to spend 3 hours at the table assisting the wizard to find the best samples of displacer beast's poo to scribe the runes on the weapon. The rules in the DMG let you adjust the amount of time your group needs to dedicate to crafting because they only state how crafting mechanically works.
Note that there are also a lot of different ways to craft items that don't require the presence of a crafter. Bonding Rituals, Ancestral Relics, Fiends of Possessions, Legacy Items and so on exist (in splatbooks) to answer exactly your question: how can I shoot webs from my sword without being a wizard?
The reason there isn't a paragraph (except for the first on second page in which they tell you that rule 0 is a thing) in the DMG telling you that your players can do anything they want if they describe it cleverly is that d&d isn't a free form roleplaying game and to avoid issues like Bob the Fighter calling you a d*ck because you won't let his sword throw meteor swarms even though he pours flour on it everyday before igniting it "because ignited flour explodes, right?". Balance requires rules, but you can build fluff (call it symbolism, mysticism or what-not) around the rules as much as you want.
Your "banner borne by elite soldiers" could've been created by the Captain of the 27th infantry regiment of the Ice queen through a Ritual of Travel, while the painted shield could've accumulated the power of your player's character faith until one day the blood of a powerful aberration granted it the power to do "magic" (Ritual of Blood). These are mere examples and by no mean exhaust the amount of possibilities you have to do this sort of things.
Artifacts are by definition outside rules: they exist because they are cool and powerful and weren't given a price or prerequisites to craft on purpose to avoid many DMs the pain to say to a player that they couldn't have an item even if they meeted every prerequisites because they didn't want that kind of power in their campaign. They aren't meant to be replicated, because they represent the kind of forces you usually see described in the background of the campaign. Nevertheless, if you feel like throwing an existing artifact in your campaign or even to build one from scratch, the DMG has a guideline for you: "be careful". So please don't bring up artifacts in a discussion about magic items.

Finally, by no means I'm claiming that 3.x is perfect (there are like 9 threads of dynsfunctions that say the opposite), but given the above the rules about creating magic items look pretty consistent to me. Following the rules isn't about squeezing story elements into them, it means having a solid base upon you can build your campaign world. Also, I'm yet to find a single item that can't be created using the item creation rules.
And now I feel like an idiot because it took more than an hour to write this whole wall of text. Oh, well.

[The Evil DM]

-Snip-


I don't take it as a critique but I think my argument is not being made well.

I am from the Pacific NW. (Born and Raised in Oregon Washington USA) I know WotC. I know the gaming community up there and have been involved with various activities with them. That said, I am well aware of the how and why behind the magic system and I still don't think it works as well as people think it does.

Its not that you cannot overlay the story into the framework. It is that the framework has become more important than the story for most. Your wall of text actually sort of points to my issue.

If I have to spend 5-10 minutes looking up details, calculating gold and xp at which point I have engineered a magical item.

Compared to 30 seconds to 1 minute of just writing down what is fun and interesting and then going with it my economy of preparation is much better used. I can spend more effort making my game interesting than crunching numbers.

That said, I have an advantage. I have been playing role playing games of all sorts since 1977. Almost 40 years now and I feel old. But over that time I have read and explored various ideas behind magic from all sorts of view points and I can draw on a lifetime of gaming to do so.

In this I recognize the value of the framework for newer and younger players.

But my advice is still the same for the OP.

To make the items "COOL" as asked, think of what is fun and interesting and just go with it. Because in the end the hours spent learning this magic item creation system have a very low return on that time investment.

[Uncle Pine]

-snip-
Wow... 40 years. That's a lot of gaming! :smallsmile:

By the way, I see your points now. I guess it all boils down to gaming styles. For me, one of the things I like about 3.5 isn't simply coming up with cool things. Whenever I build a magic item (or an NPC, or anything else), I rejoice 4 times: when I have the idea, when I think about a way to bring it to the table without destroying the world, when I inevitably find that there is (at least) one way to make it happen and when I finally get to see the final product in action. And while it was quite difficult at first to untangle all the rules, it now feels really natural.
Still, you are right and improvisation is a great skill that can save every DM a lot of time. But with a bit of preparation and system mastery one can easily improvise within the bonds of rules as well.

[torrasque666]

You don't mix creation feats when you craft "weird" items. If you want to craft a +1 longsword that also shoots fireballs 3 times/day, you are still crafting a weapon, not a wondrous item. To price such an item, you should refer to the rules/guidelines about creating magic items. This can get complicated at times, but if you have a specific idea we can help you running the calcs.
This isn't entirely true. The MIC has at least one example of something requiring multiple feats to make, Eternal Wands(which, by the way, are command activated items, not spell trigger items like normal wands.) which require both Wonderous Item and Wand creation feats. It might be the only example, but there is precedent for requiring multiple feats.

[Uncle Pine]

This isn't entirely true. The MIC has at least one example of something requiring multiple feats to make, Eternal Wands(which, by the way, are command activated items, not spell trigger items like normal wands.) which require both Wonderous Item and Wand creation feats. It might be the only example, but there is precedent for requiring multiple feats.

Hmm. That never occurred to me. Apparently, it's because they copy/pasted eternal wands from ECS, which required to craft an Eberron shard (with Craft Wondrous Items) to craft Eberron shard items like eternal wands and everbright lanterns. It's only an issue with eternal wands because they are the only Eberron shard item that's based on a creation feat other than Craft Wondrous Items. Nice catch! (http://i.imgur.com/IW8simF.gif)

[The Evil DM]

Still, you are right and improvisation is a great skill that can save every DM a lot of time. But with a bit of preparation and system mastery one can easily improvise within the bonds of rules as well.

I have a proposal. If OP Badgerman gives a write up of his party, any background he has available, storylines, NPCs and what not. I will knock out a selection of 30 or so magical items that you can shoehorn into 3.5 for him.

On a side note - My methods are not free form. I just prefer to hide the rules behind a layer of verisimilitude such that the rules and explanations of how an item is created draw the player more into the setting rather than represent an artificial construct placed on top of setting.

[jiriku]

Does an improved weapon, for example a masterwork shovel, qualify by RAW to craft a magic weapon using the 'Craft Magic Arms and Armor'-feat ?

And if so, is it possible to use different item creation feats on one item, for example use 'Craft Wonderous Item' on the same shovel ?

Yes and yes. You can also have items that "use" only one feat but technically require another. Constructs are a good example of this.

[Aleolus]

A shovel is an improvised weapon and thus can be crafted as a masterwork weapon. Also, mithral and adamantine shovels are automatically considered masterwork weapons.

Unfortunately, this is incorrect. Unless you decide to houserule differently, masterwork quality improves the items function when used as it was intended to be.. A shovel is classified as a tool, so a masterwork shovel would be able to move dirt more easily than a normal shovel, and could be enchanted with Craft Wonderous Item, but would be no better than a normal shovel if you went to bash in someone's skull.

[badgerman]

Hmm,
seems to become difficult here :smallamused:
For example I am a bit uncertain, if a shovel can be "enchanted" with something like Eager (MIC p.34) when creating the item.

Ok let's make some examples but notice that these are just ideas I am thinking about:
Setting: Underground
Group: 3 Chars- Paladin, Skillmonkey, Arcane Caster
Idea: Thought about a set of tools to help them find their way.
1. Shovel: 1st effect- maybe 'Soften Earth and Stone' as a Spell 3 times per day, 2nd effect - maybe Illusion Bane (MIC p.36)
2. A heavy Pick: 1st effect- maybe 'Burrow, mass' (SpC) to everyone owning a piece of the set 3/day, 2nd effect - maybe Dispelling (MIC p.36)
3. A lantern: effects - not sure about that maybe some 'detect ...' or 'commune with...', or some sort of shelter, or something like 'wall of ...' and something like 'Searing Light'

That are just some ideas, but maybe they could help you to help me :smallbiggrin:

[Aleolus]

Those sound pretty good, though I would put Illusion Bane (more of an offensive ability) on the pick, since they are counted as weapons in DnD, and put the burrowing on the shovel. Also, for the lantern, just put that whatever "detect" ability you put on it becomes highlighted in the area of light from the lantern.

[The Evil DM]

Hmm,
seems to become difficult here :smallamused:
For example I am a bit uncertain, if a shovel can be "enchanted" with something like Eager (MIC p.34) when creating the item.

Ok let's make some examples but notice that these are just ideas I am thinking about:
Setting: Underground
Group: 3 Chars- Paladin, Skillmonkey, Arcane Caster
Idea: Thought about a set of tools to help them find their way.
1. Shovel: 1st effect- maybe 'Soften Earth and Stone' as a Spell 3 times per day, 2nd effect - maybe Illusion Bane (MIC p.36)
2. A heavy Pick: 1st effect- maybe 'Burrow, mass' (SpC) to everyone owning a piece of the set 3/day, 2nd effect - maybe Dispelling (MIC p.36)
3. A lantern: effects - not sure about that maybe some 'detect ...' or 'commune with...', or some sort of shelter, or something like 'wall of ...' and something like 'Searing Light'

That are just some ideas, but maybe they could help you to help me :smallbiggrin:

I have written down a few concepts but before I post I want to tune them up a little. I have a few questions for you.

Since it is an underground game, I assume you are trying to give them a means to tunnel and move about.

Do you have digging rates and speeds defined for the game?
If I create these as tied to Dwarven gods or religions will that work in your setting?
Are you limited to Shovel, Pick and Lantern?
Are you amenable to other mining accoutrement in addition to these items?

By the way

The weapon Heavy Pick, is not a Mining Pick. Even if there is some mention somewhere in RAW that a mining pick can be used as a heavy pick that is patently absurd. A true mining pick can weigh up to 20 lbs, depending on the size and the hardness of stone it is intended to be used on, and is very slow and awkward to use as an improvised weapon.

The pick designed as a weapon has a long narrow fine point of hardened steel designed to puncture plate armor. Not a heavy relatively blunt head designed to break stones.

[atemu1234]

Hula-Hoop of Demons?

Once per day, use the hula-hoop (dex DC 10). Open a Gate into the Abyss. Why? We don't know. Just do it. Do it. DO IT.

[The Evil DM]

Hula-Hoop of Demons?

Once per day, use the hula-hoop (dex DC 10). Open a Gate into the Abyss. Why? We don't know. Just do it. Do it. DO IT.

How about a cursed hula-hoop of torso severing

[badgerman]

I have written down a few concepts but before I post I want to tune them up a little. I have a few questions for you.

Since it is an underground game, I assume you are trying to give them a means to tunnel and move about.

Do you have digging rates and speeds defined for the game?
If I create these as tied to Dwarven gods or religions will that work in your setting?
Are you limited to Shovel, Pick and Lantern?
Are you amenable to other mining accoutrement in addition to these items?

Digging speeds: If a player has a burrow speed he can move through earth at its speed. If he has profession miner digging speed as written in races of dragon x 5ft. cubes per day I think
Gods: Races found in Faerun prefered (Kobolds, Dwarves, Svirfneblin) so Dwarves are ok
Item-Limitation: I like creativity so other ideas are always welcome, but my goal is to be able to create items on my own in future.
So please take it as it is intended to be: an example.
I am very thankful for your help but I don't want to exploit you as an online item-creator.


By the way

The weapon Heavy Pick, is not a Mining Pick. Even if there is some mention somewhere in RAW that a mining pick can be used as a heavy pick that is patently absurd. A true mining pick can weigh up to 20 lbs, depending on the size and the hardness of stone it is intended to be used on, and is very slow and awkward to use as an improvised weapon.

The pick designed as a weapon has a long narrow fine point of hardened steel designed to puncture plate armor. Not a heavy relatively blunt head designed to break stones.

You are right should be a mining pick.

[atemu1234]

How about a cursed hula-hoop of torso severing

Why not both?

With the prerequisite feat:

Craft Hula-Hoop

Prerequisites: CL 9+, Craft Wondrous Item

Effect: You can create magical items known as Hula-Hoops.

[Segev]

How about a cursed hula-hoop of torso severing

For playing "ring toss" with enemy targets?

[The Evil DM]

For playing "ring toss" with enemy targets?

Well it depends. If the game is a game of happy go lucky violence yes this could be fun in that one.

If the game is a little more gritty and sinister, the Hula Hoop actually curses a victim with Otto's Irresistible Hula Dancing and as the dance continues the hoop slowly and painfully grinds its way through the victims torso leaving a very bloody mess.

On that note I once handed out a Wand of Otto's Irresistible Stripper Dance. It works exactly the same as Otto's regular Irresistible Dance but the victim slowly removes all gear and throws it on the ground.

[The Evil DM]

Digging speeds: If a player has a burrow speed he can move through earth at its speed. If he has profession miner digging speed as written in races of dragon x 5ft. cubes per day I think
Gods: Races found in Faerun prefered (Kobolds, Dwarves, Svirfneblin) so Dwarves are ok
Item-Limitation: I like creativity so other ideas are always welcome, but my goal is to be able to create items on my own in future.
So please take it as it is intended to be: an example.
I am very thankful for your help but I don't want to exploit you as an online item-creator.

Well I am hoping that Uncle Pine will come back and show you how to turn these into the 3.5 framework. But let me know if you like these.

The Mining Kit of Rekkr

Rekkr the Goldsniffer was a lifelong and faithful follower of Dumathoin. As a youth in a dwarven hold, Rekkr took his gods challenge and embarked on a lifetime of toil deep in the rocks. Rekkr spent all his many days seeking great buried wealth, digging and grubbing his way through rock.When he found a trove, Rekkr would mutter the blessings of Dumathoin and sacrifice half of the gold to his master.

The Mining Kit consists of several tools. Many of which Dumathoin blessed in response to Rekkr’s substantial sacrifices of gold and jewels. All of the tools are made of the finest dwarven steel. The tools in the kit are:

Rekkr’s Mining Pick
Rekkr’s Mandrill - (a small one handed pick for confined spaces)
Rekkr’s Shovel
Rekkr’s Sledge Hammer and a Steel Wedge
Rekkr’s Lamp

Rekkr’s Mining Pick
This mining pick is a heavy pick requiring two hands to properly swing. Over the many years of gradual blessing by Dumathoin this particular pickaxe has taken on several enchantments.

Powers
Any of Rekkr’s tools can be used up to 12 hours within a single day without producing fatigue. Use beyond 12 hours produces fatigue at normal rates. The 12 hour per day limit is a total for use of all tools, not use of each tool. Switching tools will not allow infinite digging without fatigue. The allowable labor hours may be divided amongst multiple individuals using the tools.

3x/day Rekkr’s Mining Pick may be commanded to release a Shatter spell on a target struck.

1x/day Rekker’s Mining Pick may be commanded to cast Stone to Flesh on a target touched.

Rekkr’s Mandrill
This small pick was almost always in Rekkr’s hand as he spelunked his way through narrow rifts in the deep stone. This pick was the most heavily blessed by Dumathoin.

Powers
At will the bearer of Rekkr's Mandrill may detect compass direction underground.

At will the bearer of Rekkr’s Mandrill may detect mineral ores or concentrations of mineral treasure (Coins, Gems, Jewelry) worth more than 1000gp up to a range of 1000ft. The power reveals the single largest treasure (by value) and gives direction and distance (per Locate Object). If the power of Rekkr’s Mandrill is used to locate treasures Dumathoin expects the treasure be claimed and 50% of it sacrificed in his name.

Rekkr’s Shovel
This shovel is a thick bladed mining shovel worn from centuries of Dwarven toil. Dumathoin blessed this shovel to aid Rekkr’s search for treasures and ore.

Powers
Any of Rekkr’s tools can be used up to 12 hours within a single day without producing fatigue. Use beyond 12 hours produces fatigue at normal rates. The 12 hour per day limit is a total for use of all tools, not use of each tool. Switching tools will not allow infinite digging without fatigue.
The allowable labor hours may be divided amongst multiple individuals using the tools.

3x/day the shovel may be used to cast Soften Earth and Stone.

1x/day the shovel may be used to cast Dig

Rekkr’s Sledge Hammer and Wedge
Rekkr’s Sledge Hammer is a mighty 20lb sledge. Its weight alone is enough to shatter boulders. But the hammer’s true power comes when used with the wedge. The wedge is an 8lb steel wedge and when placed in a natural crack the wedge can force the crack wider cleaving off sheets of stone.

Powers
Any of Rekkr’s tools can be used up to 12 hours within a single day without producing fatigue. Use beyond 12 hours produces fatigue at normal rates. The 12 hour per day limit is a total for use of all tools, not use of each tool. Switching tools will not allow infinite digging without fatigue.
The allowable labor hours may be divided amongst multiple individuals using the tools.

1x/day Rekkr’s Wedge, may be insert into a natural crack. Then when striking the wedge with Rekkr’s Sledge Hammer, the two items together may be commanded to permanently Passwall through a single stone surface. The user states a brief litany to Dumathoin and strikes the wall with the pick which immediately cleaves a 5 foot wide, 7 foot tall 60 foot long passage forward. The materials are displaced outward not destroyed. Rekkr used this to open up ore veins for exploitation. When used in this manner the wedge returns to the users pack.

1x/day Rekkr’s Wedge, may be insert into a natural crack on an overhang or cliff. Then when striking the wedge with Rekkr’s Sledge Hammer, the two items together may be commanded to permanently shear off a volume of stone up to 1000 cubic feet in volume, potentially starting a rockslide below. (requires DM Adjudication regarding how big the available stone to be sheared in a particular site) When used in this manner the wedge returns to the users pack.

Rekkr’s Lamp
Rekkr carried with him a simple hooded oil lamp to provide light when his darkvision was not sufficient for work.

Powers
The lamp can be commanded to light and burn. It provides light as a normal hooded lamp but burns with a permanent flame.

Once per week the lamp may be fed a 500gp gem. If the gem is Orange or Red the lamp will consume the gem and summon an 8HD Fire Elemental. If the gem is green, black or brown, the lamp will summon an Earth Elemental. Any other colors will be consumed and taken by Dumathoin as a sacrifice. (see below)

The Lamp detects dangerous gasses and conditions underground. If the group encounters poisonous vapors, the flame in the lamp’s flame will change color to green. If the lamp bearer approaches an area at risk of cave in the lamp’s flame will change color to red.

DM Notes and set Quirks: If the power of the Mandrill is used Dumathoin expects to be compensated for his divination. 50% of the treasure so claimed must be immediately sacrificed to Dumathoin. Failure to make the proper sacrifices will result in Dumathoin’s displeasure and the possibility (1% cumulative per offense) that Dumathoin arrives in person to strip the offender of all treasure, wealth and magic. After which, Dumathoin will bury said stripped articles in a deep hiding place miles below the surface of Faerun.

In addition all of these items require periodic sacrifice to appease Dumathoin. Once per game month a gemstone of worth at least 500gp must be placed in the lamp at which point it is consumed. This sacrifice must be of a gem color that does not summon an elemental. Diamonds work well.

If the kit is split up the magic fades until the kit is brought back together. Separating the tools by more than 300 feet is the definition of splitting the kit.

[badgerman]

I am very impressed.
I like the complete set although I would have linked it to more owners (maybe brothers) but thats nothing what really matters.
I have to admit that they seem waaay more flavorful and interesting to me than the magic items found in the standard rules.
I hope you don't mind if I adapt these a bit and use your ideas in my campaign.
To be honest I don't feel like I could create items the way you do, simply because I wouldn't know how to balance their powers and flaws. I especially like the emergency break of intervention by the god himself.
There's a lack of experience playing the game causing me not to know what impact an item created "freestyle" (for me it would be freestyle)
could have.
I think I would have created some items with powers maybe similar to your items but no proper way out if the players find a way to exploit the items.
Till I have enough experience to create the items like you do, I need some rules I can trust. Creating the items by raw, getting a price, comparing the price with other items will help me rate the impact the item could have to the game I think.

As said before great job, very impressing item creation, great flavor!

Thanks.

[General Sajaru]

I am very impressed.
Till I have enough experience to create the items like you do, I need some rules I can trust. Creating the items by raw, getting a price, comparing the price with other items will help me rate the impact the item could have to the game I think.

As you start to venture into the wide world of item creation, that's a very good strategy to adopt, if only because it prevents some DM headaches, like when you accidentally give them the suit of power armor that doesn't need batteries :smallbiggrin:. It also makes it easier to price items, should the PCs ever wish to sell them. The occasional "freestyle" magic item without a ton of powers is probably a good place to start.

[The Evil DM]

I am very impressed.
I like the complete set although I would have linked it to more owners (maybe brothers) but thats nothing what really matters.
I have to admit that they seem waaay more flavorful and interesting to me than the magic items found in the standard rules.
I hope you don't mind if I adapt these a bit and use your ideas in my campaign.
To be honest I don't feel like I could create items the way you do, simply because I wouldn't know how to balance their powers and flaws. I especially like the emergency break of intervention by the god himself.
There's a lack of experience playing the game causing me not to know what impact an item created "freestyle" (for me it would be freestyle) could have.
I think I would have created some items with powers maybe similar to your items but no proper way out if the players find a way to exploit the items.
Till I have enough experience to create the items like you do, I need some rules I can trust. Creating the items by raw, getting a price, comparing the price with other items will help me rate the impact the item could have to the game I think.

As said before great job, very impressing item creation, great flavor!

Thanks.

Feel free to tweak the fluff to brothers, and adapt how ever you feel.

Here are my general guidelines when I do stuff like this.

Cantrips or level 1 spells with high use or at will are not likely to ever break the game. Even giving a wizard the ability to throw magic missile at will just prevents the lowbie wizard from turning into a guy in the back of a party with no spells and a crossbow. From experience there is no issue with those. If in doubt no more than 4x/day

Any powers that mimic a 2nd or 3rd level spell 3x/day is ok. Allowing a warrior to have an item that gives him the ability to use 3 2nd level spells a day puts him on par with a ranger or paladin at mid levels.

4th to 5th level spells 2x/day

6th level spells 1x/day

Anything above that I give the item a cost you can use a ring of wishes but it has a cost. That is where Dumathoin comes in. The ability to divine the location of treasures is just a powerful Locate Object spell but it can cause some issues with wealth. Summoning Elementals can also get out of hand so I put a cost on it. Like a spell component.

This is why if the players start to try and use these items a lot to get very wealthy, Dumathoin demands his share.

Also See Death Wish for a sample of a cost for a Ring of Wishes, and probability of wealth randomly appearing in a volume.

Death Wish

The ring on Xiaoli’s finger is known as qiú sǐ yuàn wànɡ - Death Wish

Death Wish’s primary power is that of granting wishes. The ring has three rubies which emit a faint luminescent shimmer when charged. As wishes are used the luster of each ruby fades.

Unfortunately for the wearer, Death Wish is a powerful artifact that feeds on the death of mortal creatures. As an inanimate object the ring itself is not evil, does not cause death, and does not cause the wearer to kill, but if creatures die in is presence there is a chance it will absorb energy and a soul fragment from the departing soul recharging the wish power.

Even though the ring is not evil the temptation of wishes will often corrupt wearers into committing murderous acts in an attempt to impart energy to the ring. The insidious nature of this ring is the mere fact that one is never forced to do evil. One must choose to do evil.

The ring can also be recharged by the death of its wearer. If the wearer dies the ring absorbs power from the wearer’s soul and fully recharges to three wishes. Any soul absorbed in this manner may not be resurrected.

A latent intelligence exists in the ring. The intelligence is the cumulative collection of spiritual impressions from every former wearer of the ring that has died while wearing it. The ring does not have the capability of direct communication but it can project feelings through an empathic connection with its wearer. When it feeds on death it will project to the wearer feelings of contentment and happiness. If contacted through spiritual methods, the soul fragments can only communicate broken bits of incoherent babble. The soul fragments remember only tidbits of their former lives.

The ring does nothing to control the wearer, nor does it force any actions in any way. However the ring does manipulate values and desire to protect itself. It will twist a wearers emotions as needed to remain on a victim.

Powers

Wish - At will - max three charges
Absorb Soul Fragment:
• Every time a mortal dies within 10 feet of the ring wearer there is a 1% chance of a soul fragment being absorbed returning one wish charge
• Every time the wearer kills a mortal in cold blood there is a 5% chance of a soul fragment being absorbed returning one wish charge
• If the wearer dies the ring absorbs the wearer’s entire soul recharging all wish charges

Any mortal losing a soul fragment has his soul fractured. A piece of the mortal soul will be left behind creating a poltergeist or other broken spirit creature and cannot be resurrected.

Unremovable - Once on a wearer the ring grips and inserts spines into the finger. The ring is not removable without removing the wearers finger.

Side Effect

The soul fragments in the ring periodically manifest causing disturbances in the mental state of the wearer. Each day roll a d6 - on a 1, the wearer will experience a 1-2 hour manifestation of obsessive compulsive disorder at some random point through the day. This manifestation will never be self-destructive, nor will it ever cause the wearer to harm others. The manifestations take the form of compulsive cleaning of hands, stacking and sorting items, repetitive self-narration, and very rarely Tourette’s like symptoms. While the ring will not force harm to the wearer or others, if people try and forcibly restrain the wearer while under the effect of an OCD manifestation the results can be unpredictable, especially if the ring contains any wishes. If the wearer of the ring is in danger, the OCD will break enabling the wearer to defend oneself. OCD will not onset during battle.

The second side effect is covetous regard for the ring. The ring causes the wearer to value it above all. The wearer will think of attempts to look at the ring or hold the ring as a desire to steal the ring. The wearer will use any wishes available to protect the ring if necessary.

Probability of Wealth appearing in a volume

Assume your players use the power of the items above at a random moment to locate treasure. What is the probability that there is treasure worth more than 1000 gold within the 1000ft radius sphere?

The actual probability is very low.

Assume your game world is approximately the size of the planet earth. With a crust thick enough to allow the characters to dig down five miles. The total volume of crust that the characters can possibly explore underground (assuming you allow the underdark to pass under oceans which is common) is approximately 580,000,000,000,000,000,000 cubic feet.

If you assume that there are a billion treasures or ore bodies worth more than 1000gp distributed evenly throughout that volume, there is approximately 1 treasure per 580,000,000,000 cubic feet.

The probability that the volume of the detection sphere intersects with the 580,000,000,000 cubic feet - (assuming all evenly and randomly distributed) is 0.7%

So, if your players just start spamming the detect treasure power at random roll d100. If you get 01, roll again and if you get 01-70 ping them a little treasure and let it lead to the lair of some creature. If they spam it while they walk, the result shouldn't change unless they move far enough to get the detection sphere volumes to no longer significantly intersect. Every 1000 feet is a good rule of thumb to allow another role.

Since the item also detects ore bodies, it could be detecting a copper vein that they can mine (taking weeks) to extract a ton of copper, which could then be minted into 100,000 copper coins (at 50 coins per lb). It might take a month or so work and in the end, Dumathoin claims his half - 50,000 coppers.

It won’t gain them much.

If they are in a major settlement or some other location of concentrated wealth, it only targets the largest treasure, which could very likely be the king’s treasury. Yay we know where the king’s treasury is and the size an wealth of the king’s treasury overpowers all the other wealth in the city.

On the flip side, it might reveal that the king is broke and a power guild or noble has the greatest wealth. That is a possible problem that could be a hook for all sorts of adventure.

Where the treasure finding power will be most useful to your players is in a dungeon. They will be able to systematically find all concentrations of money in a dungeon.

I would also warn you away from fixed prices for items. Sure it can be a means to compare items but in the end it is artificial and creates a fixed economy your players should never 100% know. This is part of the issue with the fixed wealth by level concept.

The items I laid out in here might have an intrinsic value based on their properties, but the price you can get for them really depends on the buyer. When you fix prices to a framework you lose a lot of the opportunity to role play the negotiations of value. If a particular merchant isn’t really interested in an item, but he knows someone who might be, that merchant would want to low bid for the item to make a profit on a resale. A collector of magical antiquities might pay a premium at an auction.

If players in my games asked me how much these items were worth, The exchange might look something like.

Players: “How much can I sell these items for?”
Evil DM: “Who are you asking?”
Players: “I don’t know - hey guys lets head into the next city and try and sell these items”

Players make their way to Rome

Players: “I look for a merchant who buys and sells mining tools”
Evil DM: “Ok, it takes you about 30 minutes to search through the market sector of the city and someone points you way towards an area where the smithing guilds ply your trade. When you get there another 10 minutes later you find a blacksmith who manufactures tools for miners”
Players: “Greetings Smith, we have some tools here we wish to appraise, what would you value these for”

Here is where the buyer variables come in. The smith is not an end user, his valuation would be lower than say a miner who would be looking to use the tools. The smith wants to buy low and resell.

If the players go find a miner and are able to demonstrate the power of this item an argument could be made for a high price. The challenge at that point is finding a miner with 100,000gp.

But - what if the players are smart enough to take these items to the High Priests at the greatest Temple of Dumathoin. These could very well be religious artifacts of great value to the priests. The players might also find themselves branded as theives for stealing dwarven artifacts - depending on the way you view dwarves and their greed.

Price is not a fixed thing.

When you think about how things impact your game, certainly you will make mistakes. Players getting items nerfed because you made them too powerful sucks, but if you have to be honest and just let them know that an item needs adjusting and why.

Ultimately mistakes are how you learn. If you avoid mistakes you trap yourself through uncertainty. And that is true regardless of whether you are talking gaming or real life.