Can a ghost plane shift to material plain?

[With a box]

Every ghost has this ability. A ghost dwells on the Ethereal Plane and, as an ethereal creature.
(snip) When a ghost manifests, it partly enters the Material Plane and becomes visible but incorporeal on the Material Plane.
so, if a ghost plain shift to a some other plane, (s)he will became just a corporeal creature, right?
and can't manifist at all?

and

Rejuvenation (Su)

In most cases, it’s difficult to destroy a ghost through simple combat: The "destroyed" spirit will often restore itself in 2d4 days. Even the most powerful spells are usually only temporary solutions. A ghost that would otherwise be destroyed returns to its old haunts with a successful level check (1d20 + ghost’s HD) against DC 16. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a ghost for sure is to determine the reason for its existence and set right whatever prevents it from resting in peace. The exact means varies with each spirit and may require a good deal of research.
would this block or break later things like Imprisonment?

If it's right then it's better then a lich. or necropolitan. if we set the reason someting like "I'm not a deity." it's just saying nope to everything.

[OldTrees1]

1) Yes a Ghost forced bodily to the material plane through Plane Shift would be a corporeal creature. This is why Ghosts technically still have a Str score despite it usually not being recorded.

2) No to Imprisonment. Yes to being stronger but more expensive than Lichdom. At 15HD (ECL18-20) a Ghost will survive exactly like a Lich except there is no Phylactery to destroy.

[Psyren]

I disagree with the first answer - a ghost is incorporeal whether it manifests or not. Plane Shifting won't change that.

"Size and Type
The creature’s type changes to undead. Do not recalculate the creature’s base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. It gains the incorporeal subtype. Size is unchanged."

[Heliomance]

I disagree with the first answer - a ghost is incorporeal whether it manifests or not. Plane Shifting won't change that.

"Size and Type
The creature’s type changes to undead. Do not recalculate the creature’s base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. It gains the incorporeal subtype. Size is unchanged."

Plane Shifting is not Manifesting. A ghost is corporeal when unmanifested on the ethereal plane. If it Plane Shifts (not Manifests) from the ethereal plane to the prime material, it will still be corporeal. Plane Shift is, incidentally, about the only way a ghost can get new equipment.

[Psyren]

Where does it say in Plane Shift that you lose your subtypes?

It is corporeal on the ethereal plane to other ethereal creatures, which is how the ethereal plane has always worked.

[AmberVael]

It might seem sensible for a ghost to be corporeal when planeshifted to the material, but that isn't really how it works out by RAW.

As Psyren points out, a ghost has the incorporeal subtype.

Size and Type
The creature’s type changes to undead. Do not recalculate the creature’s base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. It gains the incorporeal subtype.
By default this means a ghost is in an incorporeal state, and for that to change there needs to be an exception to the rules.

The exception we have is this:

A manifested ghost remains partially on the Ethereal Plane, where is it not incorporeal.
The issue is, this exception is worded in such a way that it is specific to the Ethereal Plane- the ability isn't that it has a corporeal body that happens to be on the ethereal plane, its that it remains on the the ethereal plane, where it isn't incorporeal. So if you take the corporeal body out of the ethereal, it just becomes incorporeal.

[OldTrees1]

@AmberVael
That is a good and convincing argument.

@Psyren
You might want to take note of how AmberVael used the opposing argument as a starting point rather than making an unrelated assertion. While both are logically valid arguments, one of them is inherently more convincing.

[Psyren]

@Psyren
You might want to take note of how AmberVael used the opposing argument as a starting point rather than making an unrelated assertion. While both are logically valid arguments, one of them is inherently more convincing.

Perhaps, but stating the obvious for the benefit of those who can't or won't see it isn't exactly my strong suit.

[Heliomance]

It's not stating the obvious. Apart from anything else, this:



It is corporeal on the ethereal plane to other ethereal creatures, which is how the ethereal plane has always worked.

is wrong. As AmberVael quoted, it is corporeal on the ethereal plane. Not "to other ethereal creatures", it is corporeal. This is the base point I was working from. I was then applying the wording of the Manifestation ability:


When a ghost manifests, it partly enters the Material Plane and becomes visible but incorporeal on the Material Plane.

as being the reason and mechanism by which it becomes incorporeal under other circumstances. With this information, it follows perfectly logically that if you Plane Shift rather than Manifesting, the "but incorporeal" bit doesn't apply. I missed the fact that they actually have the incorporeal subtype, true, but that is a clear demonstration of how it's not entirely obvious.

[Psyren]

It's not stating the obvious. Apart from anything else, this:



is wrong. As AmberVael quoted, it is corporeal on the ethereal plane. Not "to other ethereal creatures", it is corporeal. This is the base point I was working from. I was then applying the wording of the Manifestation ability:

It's actually not wrong, because if you're ethereal, you're there. (That being what ethereal means in the game.)

And I was being a bit snarky (more than a bit, admittedly) because OldTrees1 condescendingly telling me what "I may want to take note of" is itself not a particularly convincing method of argumentation, or at least not one conducive to good faith.