Aptitude Question

[DeadAggressor]

I've tried googling it and searching through multiple forums, but have been unable to find a clear answer. With the aptitude enchantment from ToB, would it be possible to combine Crossbow Sniper and Boomerang Daze to chakrams I throw? And would the daze work with Chakram Ricochet as well?

[Darrin]

There is no clear answer supported by RAW that the Aptitude enhancement was intended to work that way. You'll need to work out with the DM what works best at your table.

[Uncle Pine]

If your DM interprets Aptitude in the most literal way ("it works on any feat that affects the use of a particular weapon"), then yes. Otherwise, you're stuck using it with Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization.

[OldTrees1]

Talk with your DM about your idea of combining those feats. If you were at my table aptitude would not extend to weapon style feats BUT I would be willing to work with you on making a way that would work.

[prufock]

By a literal reading, I believe it works. I'm a pretty liberal DM most of the time, allowing adapted feats and stuff anyway - Chakram Daze and Chakram Sniper wouldn't be off the table for most of my games.

[ekarney]

From what I gather, you choose one set of feats that apply to one weapon, to affect the aptitude weapon.

so unless you got Two aptitude enhancements you'd have to choose between crossbow feats applying to the chakram, or boomerang feats applying.
Since they're still chakram however, all chakram feats would still apply.

So no boomerang AND crossbow feats on the same weapon unless you get the enhancement twice


edit: unless boomerang daze already applies to chakrams, i havent read much on either weapon or their relevant feats

[Segev]

It works by literal reading of the RAW.

As a DM, I'd be inclined to discourage that kind of cheese by instead offering you feats designed to do exactly what you want for chakrams in the first place. It's cleaner, and less wasteful of resources.

[atemu1234]

RAW-wise, it's kosher.

DM-wise, YMMV.

[torrasque666]

Aptitude weapons work with feats that reference a specific weapon. Crossbow Sniper technically references three different types of weapons, not one. Boomerang Daze also doesn't affect the use of a particular type of weapon, but two. Given that the enhancement uses Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec as references, its heavily implied that its for those feats that you have to select a specific weapon when taking.

[ekarney]

Aptitude weapons work with feats that reference a specific weapon. Crossbow Sniper technically references three different types of weapons, not one.

See what I got from it, was you nominated a weapon, because of the OP's question I'll be using a Light Crossbow and all feats that apply directly to the Light Crossbow would apply to the aptitude weapon.
For example Rapid Reload applies to 3 types of crossbow, and if my aptitude weapon was a sling (move action to reload) then because I chose a Light Crossbow (Also move action to reload) since the feat in this case is specifically causing a move action weapon's reload to move down a step. As a DM I'd rule the same of crossbow sniper, since it has the same effect across all 3 crossbow types. A few other DM's I spoke to about a sling build I was working on thought the same, though that doesn't necessarily make it right.

[torrasque666]

See what I got from it, was you nominated a weapon, because of the OP's question I'll be using a Light Crossbow and all feats that apply directly to the Light Crossbow would apply to the aptitude weapon.
For example Rapid Reload applies to 3 types of crossbow, and if my aptitude weapon was a sling (move action to reload) then because I chose a Light Crossbow (Also move action to reload) since the feat in this case is specifically causing a move action weapon's reload to move down a step. As a DM I'd rule the same of crossbow sniper, since it has the same effect across all 3 crossbow types. A few other DM's I spoke to about a sling build I was working on thought the same, though that doesn't necessarily make it right.
Thing is, Rapid Reload is for a specific type of crossbow, selected when the feat is chosen. It keys off of Weapon Focus, but if you have multiple Weapon Focus (types of Crossbow) you still have to select one when choosing the feat. There is no choice with Crossbow Sniper. If you have WF(Light Crossbow), WF(Heavy Crossbow) and WF(Hand Crossbow) then you get get Crossbow Sniper's benefit for all 3. But for Rapid Reload, it goes WF(Light)->RR(Light),WF(Heavy)->RR(Heavy), etc. Its not [WF(Light),WF(Hand),WF(Heavy)]->Rapid Reload(All) but separate feats.

[Tohsaka Rin]

Yeah, I just let it apply to basically any feat, almost without question. Though there's some things that just don't make sense together, like ranged feats (rapid shot) applying to melee (rapid shooting short sword, what?)

Because really, is stacking (finite) feats on a melee weapon more powerful than... Fireball? Energy-Admixture'd Electric FireSonicball? That's been Maximized and Empowered? Or Finger of Death? Or Bonefiddle? Chain Lightning? Wish?

Really troubling how that Barbarian with a greatsword keeps picking on those Elder Dragons, isn't it? :smalltongue:

[ekarney]

Crossbow Sniper still directly stems from Weapon Focus though, it just removes the redundancy of having to take the feat multiple times, which is just wasting feats, and having weapon prof (heavy crossbow) is not going to help you if you have a sling with an aptitude (light crossbow).

[OldTrees1]

Yeah, I just let it apply to basically any feat, almost without question. Though there's some things that just don't make sense together, like ranged feats (rapid shot) applying to melee (rapid shooting short sword, what?)

Because really, is stacking (finite) feats on a melee weapon more powerful than... Fireball? Energy-Admixture'd Electric FireSonicball? That's been Maximized and Empowered? Or Finger of Death? Or Bonefiddle? Chain Lightning? Wish?

Really troubling how that Barbarian with a greatsword keeps picking on those Elder Dragons, isn't it? :smalltongue:

With an argument like that, why require the Aptitude enhancement at all?

[Twurps]

Sticking to strickt RAW with this weapon property will (as it does with so many things) lead to utter madness. like the already mentioned application of ranged weapon feats to swords and the like.

The way we play it: you can only apply any feat to the aptitude weapon that you could have chosen for the weapon.
This eliminates al kinds of weirdness, while still accomplishing the goal of not locking anybody into a particular weapon, just by his feat choices.

If you have any other goals: Realize that you're on DM territory anyways, and just do as Segev suggested. Design your own feats and prereq's.

[Segev]

The RAW, IIRC, specify that the feat must be for a specificly named weapon kind. i.e. "short swords" or "crossbows" or the like. This would include feats which apply to only one weapon of the player's choice as well as to those which list a limited number of specific weapons.

It would not apply to feats which name a category of weapons (e.g. "melee" or "ranged").