VtM without.....

[Bloodtomb]

I wonder if it's possible to run Vampire without clans? Well alternatively what about a Post-Gehenna scenario where all clans are wiped out and the only surviving Vampires alive are caitiff which it would be interested to explore how different Vampire society would be if there was no clans and plus I think the concept of "out of clan disciplines" would no longer exist because any vampire can learn any discipline now without the fear of a Clan Vampire hunting them down because they know it.

[JellyPooga]

It totally is. A friend of mine ran a game many years back where everyone started as a "baseline" Vampire with Celerity, Potence and Fortitude (or whatever the "toughness" discipline was called...it's been a while since I last looked at a Vampire sourcebook) and if they wanted any of the other disciplines, they had to either find someone in-game who knew it and learn it from them, or try to develop it themselves (which took up a LOT of downtime!).

Without the Clans or the Masquerade and the politics inherent to them, the players were free to create their own power-bases and politics without having to skirt around the standard source material which would otherwise get in the way. It made for a much more free-form game from the players perspective.

[Anonymouswizard]

I imagine it would end up a lot like a clanless Requiem game, with power concentrated in groups of like-minded kindred.

[Bloodtomb]

Well if we're going with the 'Gehenna Scenario' route possibility, I wonder what anyone here would come up with a good idea what would happen and how Caitiff would survive?

[LibraryOgre]

There was a sourcebook specifically about Caitiff, IIRC. I kind of like the idea of there being a very small remaining group of vampires, mostly high generation Caitiff.

[comicshorse]

Presumably not worth the Antedeluvians time to find them after they ate everybody else
( "Say do you want to go eat the Caitiff now ?"
" Nah, I'm stuffed I couldn't eat another Vampire "):smallsmile:

[Pilo]

Without having to wipe out the entire creation, you can use the Anarch part of the setting.
The clan does not matter in the chase of freedom.

[Bloodtomb]

If you can notice, I changed the thread title which I originally was going to make a new thread but I decided to post it here because I thought it would be too redundant but anyways....

What about a Vampire game not only without clans, but also without the Personal Horror theme such as Frenzy, The Beast, The Humanity/Path system, The entire Noddest myth (for many good reasons because it restores agency to the players first of all), and also the entire Jyhad politics? How vastly different will this Vampire game be?

[TheCountAlucard]

Basically "Superheroes with Fangs," then?

Because it'd be drastically different (though to be honest there's already a sizable crowd that plays it exactly like that anyway).

[Bloodtomb]

Basically "Superheroes with Fangs," then?

Because it'd be drastically different (though to be honest there's already a sizable crowd that plays it exactly like that anyway).

Well something like that...well more like dark anti-heroes with fangs or basically humans with fangs and vampiric superpowers and immortality.

Since I think it's possible to portray Vampires as less like monsters but more like undead humans who maintain their immortality via drinking blood and just surviving through the nights while humanity sees them as monsters even they're not while real monsters lurk....

I think I'm trying to find a way to make Vampires more 'misunderstood characters' which things like the Beast/Frenzy/humanity system/etc and making them actually monsters robs that possibility which makes it justifiable for human characters to stake them (unless I could be wrong).

[TheCountAlucard]

The fact that you seem to think it's justifiable to murder a person because he may lose control of his darker impulses and kill someone goes a long way toward proving that people who want to be okay with killing vampires are going to find a way to justify it to themselves.

So what if they're monsters? Why is the Beast a problem where your hypothetical Beast-less immortals who drink human blood to sustain unholy powers as they hide their existence from human society not a problem?

[Lord Raziere]

I guess you could make superheroes with fangs, if you unhumanize their power source. somehow change it so that you have to instead, search for wellsprings of shadow magic that spring up at night and feed from the rising dark energy to sustain yourself or something like that. y'know, get their power from something other than the blood of humans. but thats just what I'd do...

[comicshorse]

But at that point why use VtM, any superhero style game or GURPS would probably do the job better

[Lord Raziere]

But at that point why use VtM, any superhero style game or GURPS would probably do the job better

because you'd still need to go around at night, suck up energy from the wellsprings and compete with other vampires for those wellsprings.

[LibraryOgre]

I've done similar before, usually by playing a good character who doesn't have to worry about falling too much. It can be fun, but it goes back to "are you playing the same game everyone else is". Hard removing those, so they're not an issue? I wouldn't use oWoD, because I don't think the system supports that kind of game very well.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I guess you could make superheroes with fangs, if you unhumanize their power source. somehow change it so that you have to instead, search for wellsprings of shadow magic that spring up at night and feed from the rising dark energy to sustain yourself or something like that. y'know, get their power from something other than the blood of humans. but thats just what I'd do...

So, most NWoD critters aside from Vampires and Changelings. And Beasts apparently.

[Lord Raziere]

So, most NWoD critters aside from Vampires and Changelings. And Beasts apparently.

Yeah pretty much. the only other thing really separating them from superheroes are the morality bars and those can easily be gotten rid of. everything else from there is roleplaying.

[comicshorse]

because you'd still need to go around at night, suck up energy from the wellsprings and compete with other vampires for those wellsprings.

Which could easily be represented using GURPS or Champions, surely

[Lord Raziere]

Which could easily be represented using GURPS or Champions, surely

whoa whoa whoa.....Whoa.

way too complex, I use Strands of Fate, Fate or Mutants and Masterminds. already made a Pseudo-Vampire thing for that in Strands of Fate. perhaps come up with my own name for it, like Shadire.

but this is recommendation for the OP and they haven't chosen any universal system yet, I'm offering my opinion, and I already made something for myself. don't talk as if this is a new thing to me.