PCs gaining renown\titles

[sage20500]

When it comes to PCs getting titles and renown, whats a good guide to go by for what kind of title they might have for the character level theyre at. Like if i wanted a PC to be known as the King of Blades, what would i be looking at for potential level where he might be recognised as such?

Also what might be some interesting title auggestions for a rangerisque character who fights like a wolf, has hide in plain sight, and has max skill ranks for hide and move silently? By fighting like a wolf i mean that the pc tends to be very clever, striking hard and fast, while also employing any advantages they can take (flanking, sneak attack, poisons.) They tend to work as either a mercenary or body guard, and they wear a tabard that has a silver wolfs head emblazoned on it.

[Urpriest]

I'd probably look at the size of the organization or city that the title corresponds to, and base it on how high level the highest-level residents are.

[Honest Tiefling]

I'd say, it has more to do with the story then level. I mean, if a charlatan found it advantageous to promote a guy as the Lord of Blades or if the guy happened to be a noble or the son of a god, he could theoretically get it at level 1.

...Maybe a zoologist can help me here, but that hunting style actually sounds more like a big cat mixed with a snake. Wolves are endurance hunters, aren't they? You could be rather no-nonsense and go for 'The Grey Wolf' or something. Or just 'The Wolf'. What is the guy's charisma, social skills, and what deeds is he known for? What elevates them above other mercenary/bodyguards?

[Magma Armor0]

I believe pathfinder has a pretty good renown system. I'll try to edit a link in here when I'm not on a mobile.

[sage20500]

I'd say, it has more to do with the story then level. I mean, if a charlatan found it advantageous to promote a guy as the Lord of Blades or if the guy happened to be a noble or the son of a god, he could theoretically get it at level 1.

...Maybe a zoologist can help me here, but that hunting style actually sounds more like a big cat mixed with a snake. Wolves are endurance hunters, aren't they? You could be rather no-nonsense and go for 'The Grey Wolf' or something. Or just 'The Wolf'. What is the guy's charisma, social skills, and what deeds is he known for? What elevates them above other mercenary/bodyguards?

I was thinking more wolf because while she has stealth to start with, once she looses it she relies on pack tactics to keep up her advantages, so flanking and the like. Aside from that, She's level 12 and is also an adventurer, but because she's being brought in at level 12 since im retiring my current character, she hasnt been associated with the groups adventures.

What makes it harder is that the setting is in Eberron so im unable to use anything like a battle or war to help define her reputation since she would only have been 4 to 6 years old at the time that the last war ended and the peace treaty signed. Charisma wise, she has a mod of 0, and she has currently been based out of Sharn for the past year or two, working as a guard for one of her uncles (my retiring character) companions that is the Captain of an air ship as a guard against sky pirates.

[Uncle Pine]

AD&D had things like that. Every class level had a title (Fighters had things like Veteran, Swordmaster, Hero, Champion, Superhero).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by sage20500
Also what might be some interesting title auggestions for a rangerisque character who fights like a wolf, has hide in plain sight, and has max skill ranks for hide and move silently? By fighting like a wolf i mean that the pc tends to be very clever, striking hard and fast, while also employing any advantages they can take….


Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling
...Maybe a zoologist can help me here….

As a zoologist, I'd have to say this isn't really a fighting style per se. Wolves are cunning and methodical with pack tactics, which by definition require a pack. If your character is a "lone wolf," so to speak, she wouldn't really exemplify those hunting tactics. And flanking doesn't really encompass everything that wolves can do.

One question is whether you want to accurately reflect actual wolf behavior, or if your character would rather play on the popular conception of a wolf, which is not always the same.


Originally Posted by sage20500
By fighting like a wolf i mean that the pc tends to be very clever, striking hard and fast, while also employing any advantages they can take….

As H.T. mentioned, this feels more snakelike, and I'd say a cobra would be a good choice to represent "striking hard and fast," or at least precisely and fast, while also including poison in the mix.

As for titles themselves, are you looking for hierarchical titles, such as baron, duke, earl, etc.? Or are you more interested in cool monikers that will be repeated in all the taverns?

[Honest Tiefling]

Whoops! Didn't see the pronouns well enough.

But I think the problem is, your character, storywise, HAS no reknown, so probably isn't known for much of anything. But just because there's no wars doesn't mean there aren't some things we can work in. Firstly, what does this uncle do? Is he a mover and a shaker in any sense? I'm a bit under the impression that Eberron has plenty of monsters and assassins and probably monstrous assassins. Stopping a group of these wouldn't require a full blown war and probably be easily worked in, with DM permission. Also works well with stealth and the whole bodyguard angle you got going on. Else, I'd go with bandits, or even just monsters on the road. I don't know enough of the setting or character, but that's three situations that don't require a war and probably happen frequently enough if I understand Eberron well enough.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling
Whoops! Didn't see the pronouns well enough.

As I read the OP, everything relating to the wolf-ish character was presented as "they," rather than a clearly female pronoun. Threw me slightly as well.

.

[Extra Anchovies]

...Maybe a zoologist can help me here, but that hunting style actually sounds more like a big cat mixed with a snake.

A cat mixed with a snake... do you mean one of these?

http://cms.kienthuc.net.vn/zoomh/500/Static/images/contents/thuhien/20130627/gietnguoitanbao4.jpg

[Honest Tiefling]

No I do not! Firstly, the catsnake isn't terribly poisonous (correct me if I'm wrong, Palanan) and that is a completely different species from both the Common Catsnake (M. putorius) and the Short Tailed Catsnake (M. erminea).

Through I must ask, what has the DM said on the matter? Their opinion matters more then ours (even those who cannot properly identify a true catsnake). Is there a party, or only your character?

[Flickerdart]

When it comes to PCs getting titles and renown, whats a good guide to go by for what kind of title they might have for the character level theyre at. Like if i wanted a PC to be known as the King of Blades, what would i be looking at for potential level where he might be recognised as such?
That depends entirely on the setting. In a world that aligns closely to our own history (where most people are level 1 Commoners or Experts and even a seasoned warrior might be Fighter 1) then anyone with multiple PC levels would be a hotshot and you could claim to be the best swordsman in the land as a Warblade 2. The likelihood of this increases in a small, localized community that had few connections with the larger world - a 3rd level ranger might be the most powerful warrior in his secluded mountain kingdom, but just over the Jagged Peaks of Doom, there are even more powerful guys that no one from the kingdom has even heard of.

On the other hand, if you're in Forgotten Realms or another setting where everyone with a name has double-digit levels and notable NPCs have global reputations, you're gonna have to be really freakin' strong to stand out.

Ultimately, it comes down to good PR. Who calls him the King of Blades? If it's the peasants, he doesn't even need to be especially good at fighting, just generous with his purse strings when bards are around.

[Uncle Pine]

A cat mixed with a snake... do you mean one of these?

http://cms.kienthuc.net.vn/zoomh/500/Static/images/contents/thuhien/20130627/gietnguoitanbao4.jpg

I was really expecting something different.

http://i.imgur.com/bn20EuW.gif

[sage20500]

That depends entirely on the setting. In a world that aligns closely to our own history (where most people are level 1 Commoners or Experts and even a seasoned warrior might be Fighter 1) then anyone with multiple PC levels would be a hotshot and you could claim to be the best swordsman in the land as a Warblade 2. The likelihood of this increases in a small, localized community that had few connections with the larger world - a 3rd level ranger might be the most powerful warrior in his secluded mountain kingdom, but just over the Jagged Peaks of Doom, there are even more powerful guys that no one from the kingdom has even heard of.

On the other hand, if you're in Forgotten Realms or another setting where everyone with a name has double-digit levels and notable NPCs have global reputations, you're gonna have to be really freakin' strong to stand out.

Ultimately, it comes down to good PR. Who calls him the King of Blades? If it's the peasants, he doesn't even need to be especially good at fighting, just generous with his purse strings when bards are around.

For the King of Blades bit, its more of a goal for my character. Part of her reasons for adventuring are that she wants to prove that she is the best swordmaster there is. She is very prideful of the style she created, and even claims the the valenar blademasters can not defeat her. To that end title wise im going for the moniker kind, where bassically she has that legend about her to where she is known as the King of Blades, (im bassically hoping to take a leaf out of the Hill of Swords where Shirou became known as the King of Swords after that one battle he was in.)

[Honest Tiefling]

I was really expecting something different.

http://i.imgur.com/bn20EuW.gif

Why don't we go back to the other catsnake? Please?

Ah, sounds like character motivation, not something for the backstory. Like Flickerdart said, you need PR. So your first step, get the ear of someone with some sway or good with words. You say she's prideful? Then she'd probably want bards singing her praises. Do some heroic deeds and refuse reward, that'll get people talking about how awesome you are. Say something like that the challenge was so paltry you can't even imagine taking reward for something so effortless. Then duel, duel, duel! Were this person not so convinced of her abilities, I would recommend throwing them in your favor but I don't think that is applicable here. Find a way to have legal (or if you have to, not so legal) duels. If you get coin, offer it to the first person to beat you in a fair duel.

Does the character care about anything else of their reputation, or that they are the awesomest with swords?

[sage20500]

No I do not! Firstly, the catsnake isn't terribly poisonous (correct me if I'm wrong, Palanan) and that is a completely different species from both the Common Catsnake (M. putorius) and the Short Tailed Catsnake (M. erminea).

Through I must ask, what has the DM said on the matter? Their opinion matters more then ours (even those who cannot properly identify a true catsnake). Is there a party, or only your character?

There is a party, its not just my character, Im unsure where the DM will stand on it because normally when it comes to introducing characters into a campaign that are above level 5 or 6, he expects for us to come up with reasonable backstory to explain how we are renowned enough to where npcs would actively see our characters out for those kinds of quests you might face.

[sage20500]

Why don't we go back to the other catsnake? Please?

Ah, sounds like character motivation, not something for the backstory. Like Flickerdart said, you need PR. So your first step, get the ear of someone with some sway or good with words. You say she's prideful? Then she'd probably want bards singing her praises. Do some heroic deeds and refuse reward, that'll get people talking about how awesome you are. Say something like that the challenge was so paltry you can't even imagine taking reward for something so effortless. Then duel, duel, duel! Were this person not so convinced of her abilities, I would recommend throwing them in your favor but I don't think that is applicable here. Find a way to have legal (or if you have to, not so legal) duels. If you get coin, offer it to the first person to beat you in a fair duel.

Does the character care about anything else of their reputation, or that they are the awesomest with swords?

Still working out the details on that part. At the moment what i have is that she was a human child born from her valenar half elf father and human mother, and she was raised in Valenar and taught about its culture by her father. Part of her seeking the title King of Blades is because her father was dishorned and accused of treason for teaching her how to wield the Valenar Double Scimitar, because those that accused him believed that teaching an unworthy human was a slander to their culture. So in order to prove them wrong she wants to become the best sword master that ever existed.

[Honest Tiefling]

Does she hate elves? Is she altruistic in the slightest? Does she want to help humans and non-elves only? Does she have a political agenda? What does the uncle want? Is she loyal to other party members so you can nick their reasons by claiming that you are being influenced by them?

[sage20500]

Whoops! Didn't see the pronouns well enough.

But I think the problem is, your character, storywise, HAS no reknown, so probably isn't known for much of anything. But just because there's no wars doesn't mean there aren't some things we can work in. Firstly, what does this uncle do? Is he a mover and a shaker in any sense? I'm a bit under the impression that Eberron has plenty of monsters and assassins and probably monstrous assassins. Stopping a group of these wouldn't require a full blown war and probably be easily worked in, with DM permission. Also works well with stealth and the whole bodyguard angle you got going on. Else, I'd go with bandits, or even just monsters on the road. I don't know enough of the setting or character, but that's three situations that don't require a war and probably happen frequently enough if I understand Eberron well enough.

Yeah Im still working on gathering a complete backstory together, the big thing is that since my character will be entering the game as a level 12 pc, the DM will be expecting for me to have a significant explanation as to why she is level 12 before the start of this adventure. Which is why im wondering about moniker titles because i was hoping to draw one, two, or three of them into her backstory to explain why she is here.

[Urpriest]

Yeah Im still working on gathering a complete backstory together, the big thing is that since my character will be entering the game as a level 12 pc, the DM will be expecting for me to have a significant explanation as to why she is level 12 before the start of this adventure. Which is why im wondering about moniker titles because i was hoping to draw one, two, or three of them into her backstory to explain why she is here.

Given that it's Eberron, 12th level characters are pretty stupendously rare. As a bodyguard/mercenary, she'd be one of the best available. Is she aligned with a Dragonmarked house, or a freelancer?

If you want there to be events in her past that earned her reputation, there's still plenty of intrigue in post-war Eberron. Stopping (or performing) assassinations, tracking down criminals, various skirmishes with minor nations...there's a lot to do.

[sage20500]

Does she hate elves? Is she altruistic in the slightest? Does she want to help humans and non-elves only? Does she have a political agenda? What does the uncle want? Is she loyal to other party members so you can nick their reasons by claiming that you are being influenced by them?

She doesnt hate elves in general, her father is a half elf and was a very good parent to her, and she is currently staying at a tavern that is owned by her Aunt in Sharn that is a full blooded elf. She does live by the Valenar culture, and she models her initial fighting style off of what Valenar as a whole encourages. Its more of she just hates the few in Valenar that caused her father to be disgraced and drive her family into exile.

For politcal agendas currently i do not see her having one. She feels like the kind of character that absolutely cringes from the slightest bit of politicking, which is why she works as a mercenary instead of having joined an army.

Her uncle is curently only concerned about his wife and the tavern he owns in Sharn. The in cannon reason for why im retiring the character is that his tavern had become so successful that his wife needed him to stay and help her run it, especially now that he found out that she is pregnant with his first child. Really he only wants for his wife's niece to be happy, since he regards her as part of his own family.

As for the party at the moment only one of the original characters is left, our third friend who made up our trio of adventurers had to move away last month, and has been unable to work out a way to still be actively involved with the campaign, the uncle im retiring because i accidently made a broken grapple character that the dm was unable to realisticly do anything about, and we have a new friend who is joining to fill in our empty spot, but he hasnt made his character yet and so remains an unknown.

As for being ultruistic and helping others, the characters alignment is locked into being lawful good, but im currently still working out her personality as to how she deals with others\other motivations for her.

[GreatDane]

I would check out Affiliations in the Player's Handbook II. The affiliation rules cover how to rise in any organization, from a baker's shop to an interplanar order of epic-level knights. There's even an example or two of kingdom-sized affiliations.

Generally speaking, character level has much less to do with a PC's ranking in an affiliation than how much they've done for the organization.

[JW86]

Also what might be some interesting title auggestions for a rangerisque character who fights like a wolf, has hide in plain sight, and has max skill ranks for hide and move silently? By fighting like a wolf i mean that the pc tends to be very clever, striking hard and fast, while also employing any advantages they can take (flanking, sneak attack, poisons.) They tend to work as either a mercenary or body guard, and they wear a tabard that has a silver wolfs head emblazoned on it.


The Fang in the Dark
The Gloaming Avenger
Cerebral Assassin
Ol' Silver Head




My Orc Barbarian PC simply gave himself titles based upon his adventures. The more adventures under his belt, the more titles he had.

Zakulnarr Thrombeksson, Barbarian King of Khare, Breaker of Chains and the Slaver's Bane, Annihilator of Drow (helped invade a Drow city), Champion of the World's Arenas (won a couple of arenas), Crusher of Minotaurs (beat a minotaur in the arena), Skywalker (he could jump far), The Thrice-Born (He'd died and been ressed twice), The Slayer of Flayers (killed an Illithid), God-King of Magic, The Loser of Virginity (got laid in a bar, paid for it),

It was great fun introducing myselfto new characters, as I'd reel off all my titles to everyone I ever met with great zeal. Never failed to amuse the table, because they knew they were in for a good minute of excited self-proclamation..

[Honest Tiefling]

The Fang in the Dark
The Gloaming Avenger
Cerebral Assassin
Ol' Silver Head

I quite like the Fang in the Dark. Continues the Stealth/Wolf theme. I just...Really have to advise you NOT to take Ol' Silver Head. I don't know what your parties are like, but around these parts, that's just asking for innuendo and giggling.

[JW86]

I quite like the Fang in the Dark. Continues the Stealth/Wolf theme. I just...Really have to advise you NOT to take Ol' Silver Head. I don't know what your parties are like, but around these parts, that's just asking for innuendo and giggling.

Ol' Wolf's Eye?

[LoyalPaladin]

His high lord Tippy has a great explanation of what levels mean. So I would plan your titles accordingly.

90% of the world has no PC levels.

Likewise 90% of the world is not going to reach ECL 5.

Those two groups aren't one and the same but there is overlap.

A level 1 fighter with 14 Con has 12 HP. An average commoner (level 1, 10 Con) has 4 HP. The level 1 fighter is already better than the vast majority of the population in combat. This isn't "new recruit" level it's "son of the local lord who has been intensively trained in the arts of war pretty much since he could walk and talk".

Per the DMG a small town of one to two thousand people is going to have a single level 8 fighter at best with the average small town having a single level 4 or 5 fighter. The best small town is going to have one level 8 fighter, two level 4 fighters, four level 2 fighters, and eight level 1 fighters. This is the town where a renowned hero has retired and set up a fighting academy or the like.

---
Level 1 PC class: Highly skilled or intensively schooled but likely lacking in real world experience.

Level 3 PC class: As before except with anything from a year to a decade of experience.

Level 5 PC class: As before except either very exceptional, exceptional circumstances are in play, or two decades or more of experience. Not a legend or anything but generally a local hero, often the local lord who has been rewarded for a lifetime of good service to a greater lord.

Level 8 PC class: Part of the King's personal guard or the like. Generally those with exceptional natural talent in their chosen field, a fair amount of luck, and helpful circumstances.

Level 10 PC class: Legend. This is where you have made it into the bards stories that will be sung not just months or years later but long after you are dead and your bones are dust. Sorcerer's bind entire armies of elemental's and outsiders to serve them, Necromancer's can field whole bands of undead, Fighter's single handedly slaughter whole Orc bands, Cleric's can bring the dead to life, kill with a single touch, and speak directly to their god.

Level 13 PC class: Beyond merely a legend. Often times the most powerful single individual in an entire kingdom. Wizards can be anywhere in the great wheel in 12 seconds (Plane Shift + Greater Teleport) or command the very weather over an entire city. Clerics can kill a legion of unbelievers with but a single word. A fighter can pick up a weapon that he has never heard of in his life before and wield in better than most masters. A Bard can regularly perform pieces of music so enthralling that even deities sit up and take notice or make even an unfriendly crowd walk away as the bards friends, or with a few minutes of work turn even a hostile enemy into a friend.

Level 15 PC class: Generally beyond the concerns of individual kingdoms. Their enemies threaten the survival or freedom of the entire world. Sorcerer's bind and enslave the general's of hell's armies. Wizard's can turn themselves into living iron and slaughter the armies of entire nations with impunity, burn entire armies to ash, bring winter across an entire nation in the middle of summer, conquer aging, bend time, and turn you into a dragon with a finger snap. A Fighter can take the field against twenty five thousand foes and walk off two days later without a scratch on him and none of his foes alive or fight the champions of the Abyss in single combat and emerge victorious. A Bard can calm a raging enemy with but a few words and turn him into a fanatical follower with but a short conversation, or he can turn an entire legion in to a fanatical mob that will willingly die for the Bard.

Level 18 PC Class: Demigods. World spanning empires can be single handedly conquered in days. Entire planes with whatever laws of reality the individual desires can be created. Death is of no concern. Continent spanning cities made of Mithril and sculpted so perfectly that even the gods weep at the beauty can be brought into existence with a finger snap.

Level 21+ PC class: Limitations are for lesser beings. There is no feat that can not be performed, no task that can not be completed, no enemy that can not be defeated. Stories exist of Fighter's who have held a single passage against unending demonic hordes for ten thousand years without even a minutes rest, and they are true.