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View Full Version : Help with Bear Manifestation Barbarian



lonewulf
2015-06-02, 04:37 PM
So this ACF for the barbarian found in Complete Champion confuses me...

Bear Totem Manifestation, gained at level 7, replaces Damage Reduction (you never gain DR as a Bear Totem). It simply states that you gain a HP per Barbarian level.

It does not say ANYTHING else, at all. Now what I read this as saying is "you gain 7 HP" and that is all. But that cant be what was intended...that is a TERRIBLE trade for even 1 DR let alone a potential 6 DR.

What I THINK was intended is that it functions much like Improved Toughness. You gain 1 HP at every Barbarian Level...but is it supposed to be 1 HP gained at lvl 7 and 1 at every level after or 7 HP and 1 at every level after (As per Improved Toughness)? Eithef way this still seems a poor trade for DR.

Another (horribly mistaken) way to interpret it is that at every level you would gain DR you instead gain a HP per Barbarian level....which would eventually give you tons of HP. All that HP would be a good trade for DR but is obviously not what was intended....but do you see why this ACF confuses me?

All in all I dont know why this bugs me seeing as how im not playing a Barbarian any time soon but....I wanna know what the deal is cuz im curious like that. Overthinking makes my brain more hurted.

Uncle Pine
2015-06-02, 04:45 PM
Totem Manifestation (Bear) gives you +1 hp/Barbarian level, so at 20th level a straight Barbarian would have 20 extra hp, but a Barbarian 10/Fighter 10 would only have 10. It's a bad trade, but Barbarian's DR is horrible to begin with. Streetfighter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a), for example, is MUCH better.

atemu1234
2015-06-02, 04:46 PM
Totem Manifestation (Bear) gives you +1 hp/Barbarian level, so at 20th level a straight Barbarian would have 20 extra hp, but a Barbarian 10/Fighter 10 would only have 10. It's a bad trade, but Barbarian's DR is horrible to begin with. Streetfighter (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a), for example, is MUCH better.

You mean there are people who take an ACF that isn't Spirit Lion Totem?

lonewulf
2015-06-02, 04:49 PM
Most DMs would let you take Lion and Bear since CC Bear Totem doesnt lose Fast Movement and Lion Totem ONLY loses Fast Movement.

ComaVision
2015-06-02, 05:05 PM
You mean there are people who take an ACF that isn't Spirit Lion Totem?

Wolf Totem has its niche.

Uncle Pine
2015-06-02, 05:11 PM
You mean there are people who take an ACF that isn't Spirit Lion Totem?

Spirit Lion Totem is a 1st level ACF. OP's talking about Totem Manifestation, the 7th level ACF.

ComaVision
2015-06-02, 05:19 PM
Spirit Lion Totem is a 1st level ACF. OP's talking about Totem Manifestation, the 7th level ACF.

I think the retort would be:

"You mean there are people that take 7 levels of Barbarian?"

:smallbiggrin:

Uncle Pine
2015-06-02, 05:29 PM
I think the retort would be:

"You mean there are people that take 7 levels of Barbarian?"

:smallbiggrin:

Barbarian 7 is a nice base to build an effective monk.

Shadowscale
2015-06-02, 06:28 PM
I think the retort would be:

"You mean there are people that take 7 levels of Barbarian?"

:smallbiggrin:

What's wrong with lots of barbarian levels? Greater rage is always nice.

Nihilarian
2015-06-02, 08:16 PM
What's wrong with lots of barbarian levels? Greater rage is always nice.there's nothing wrong with Barbarian 20, but past level 4 or so you get better returns with dips and prestige classes. Why take an acf to get the toughness of a bear when you can prestige out and actually become a bear?

Streetfighter's not a bad incentive to stay, though.

atemu1234
2015-06-02, 08:19 PM
there's nothing wrong with Barbarian 20, but past level 4 or so you get better returns with dips and prestige classes. Why take an acf to get the toughness of a bear when you can prestige out and actually become a bear?

Streetfighter's not a bad incentive to stay, though.

Find a way to get wild shape and you suddenly become T2, at least, and show off one of my favourite archetypes.

Though, does anyone know how to do this?

Nihilarian
2015-06-02, 08:46 PM
Find a way to get wild shape and you suddenly become T2, at least, and show off one of my favourite archetypes.

Though, does anyone know how to do this?the Abolisher from Lords of Madness is probably the easiest 3.5 prc, but if you can you want Shapeshifter from OA, since it's wildshape is based off of HD and not class level.

Notably, Warshaper has concentration as a class skill, so Shifter Barbarian 4/Warshaper 3/Shapeshifter 1/Master of Many Forms 10 works really well.

I was more talking about the Bear Warrior, though. The Shapeshifter build is certainly tier 2 but not because of the barbarian.