Neat feats, no one is gonna ever going to take.

[Hellborn_Blight]

I like to give out feats as story rewards, but giving out feats people were already gonna take, or ones that are too powerful and will throw off ecl, isn't very smart. So I'd like to put a list together of feats that have either a very niche use, or are kinda underwhelming most of the time but do something interesting beyond the +X to Y thing, like skill focus (which I often do give out).

So post a feat you like, but would probably never be able to work into a build.

[Saintheart]

Node Spellcasting and Metanode Spell (Champions of Ruin). Wonderful for BBEGs who have to fight from fixed locations since you can load 'em up with free metamagic and out-of-class spells while standing around in a Really Bad Place, but you'd be insane to take it as a PC since, as said, it basically fixes you to the location of a node.

[Honest Tiefling]

Endurance and Diehard come to mind. A bit nifty, but usually you take feats so you don't die or prepare so you don't have to sleep in armor. There's probably a feat for this, but extra usages of spell-like abilities granted from race can't hurt, most of these spells are pretty minor.

[ZamielVanWeber]

There's probably a feat for this, but extra usages of spell-like abilities granted from race can't hurt, most of these spells are pretty minor.

Magic in the Blood turns 1/day racials into 3/day racials. Works amazingly with Phrenic or Half-Fey.

[Troacctid]

Combat Intuition. Use a Sense Motive check (with a +4 bonus) as a free action to determine how difficult a challenge your opponent will be. (You also get a +1 insight bonus to attack an enemy you attacked in the previous round.)

Souleater Incarnate. It lets you eat the souls of anyone who dies near you. How cool is that? It also gives you telepathy, bonus essentia, and a boost to your save DCs. But nobody will ever take it, because holy ****, those prerequisites.

[Warrnan]

Whirlwind attack. A cool feat for melee characters that is just too situational to ever spend all those feats on prereqs.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Fling Enemy and Hammer and Piton. Both deliciously cinematic, neither really useful enough to spend a feat slot on.

[Sith_Happens]

Scion of Tem-Et Nu. Because there's no such thing as a more flavorful feat than the one that lets you rebuke hippopotamuses.:smallbiggrin:

[Story]

Cards Over Swords. Because any important dispute should be resolved via a childrens' card game.

[Afgncaap5]

Track. It's a lot of fun as a feat, but it doesn't come up often enough for me to justify taking it on a character that isn't a Ranger.

By the same token, that one... that one private detective feat from Eberron. Investigator?

Also, all the feats that make you move faster. Run, for instance.

[ryu]

Spell thematics. Just... Spell thematics. It has something in it for people who like to personalize their showmanship and a small bonus, but if we're being real no one takes it unless they're trying to be less powerful. I'm pretty sure even newbie blaster wizards gravitate towards different feats.

[Hiro Quester]

Combat panache for a combat type who has charisma. Adds fun options for using bluff or intimidate in combat.

Skill focus in whatever they specialize in: diplomacy for the bard, spell craft for the wizard.

Bards have many useful feats that augment bardic music. E.g.
Disguise spell for undetectable casting, haunting melody for fear effects.

+1 on spell thematics for casters. Fun role playing possibilititpes there.

[Telok]

The teamwork feats. The luck feats. Those feats about when/where the character was born.

[Afgncaap5]

Spell thematics. Just... Spell thematics. It has something in it for people who like to personalize their showmanship and a small bonus, but if we're being real no one takes it unless they're trying to be less powerful. I'm pretty sure even newbie blaster wizards gravitate towards different feats.

Definitely. It's a fun idea, but I don't see why a character can't give their spells a theme without a feat. A bonus against being countered is fun, but... honestly, I've almost never had spell countering come up from my GMs.

[Venger]

Cards Over Swords. Because any important dispute should be resolved via a childrens' card game.

I've never even heard of this feat before. where on earth is it from?


Spell thematics. Just... Spell thematics. It has something in it for people who like to personalize their showmanship and a small bonus, but if we're being real no one takes it unless they're trying to be less powerful. I'm pretty sure even newbie blaster wizards gravitate towards different feats.

I love spell thematics. treating spls as +1 level is often used for early entry tricks, so if you disapprove of those, beware of handing it out for free.

dragonmarks are fun. cute l'l slas and bonuses to skills aren't going to break any games

thrall to demon/disciple of darkness/scion of sorrow whatever the goody two-shoes version is are perfect for the kind of interesting feats that should be granted as a story bonus. they don't do much, and they are prereqs for all kinds of awesome stuff like hellsworn knight/demonsworn knight/tormented knight, which are also good candidates for you.

the spelltouched feats in general

seconding hammer and piton, adding weapon and torch, and really any of the style feats. if your player likes using those kinds of crappy weapons, throw them a bone and let them have some additional effect.

complete scoundrel's luck feats comfortably fit here. on that note, consider giving your players skill tricks as bonuses also.

heritage feats, if your players are the sort to play characters with interesting family trees, are also pretty fun, giving some SLAs and additional effects. I particularly enjoy the fey heritage and devil-touched feats. many also give a scaling bonus depending on how many you have.

the +2 skill ones are easily giftable since they're absolute trash

roofwalker/roofjumper would be a fun treat for an erroyl flynn type PC since it lets him be better at jumping off stuff but doesn't really... do anything. it's shockingly worthless for a tactical feat which are usually at leat passable and at best are shock trooper

any of the regional feats are probably a good bet since none of them do anything. refluff/rename appropriately if not in a greyhawk game. they're almost all stuff like "cover your tracks" so won't break anything

deformity feat are cool, and giving them away would prevent your players from having to revere elder evils.

up the walls is fun for a PC who wants to run on the walls like john woo movies.

as a general rule, any feat that grants an entirely new capability, like natural spell or leap attack is not something you want to hand out for free

garbage feats that jut provide a numerical bonus to stuff are fine to hand out. no one's gonna wreck your campaign with silver palm or deceitful, plus they're often prerequisites for things.


The teamwork feats. The luck feats. Those feats about when/where the character was born.

seconding all of these. those are called "regional feats" and were a 3.0 thing. a lot of them are neat, but not good enough to take.


Definitely. It's a fun idea, but I don't see why a character can't give their spells a theme without a feat. A bonus against being countered is fun, but... honestly, I've almost never had spell countering come up from my GMs.

your DM should let you describe spells how you like. it's a roleplaying game after all. nobody counterspells. it also makes your spls harder to identify via spellcraft (no one cares, the DM knows what you're casting already)

the most recent (and thus legal) version in player's guide to faerun also adds +1 to CL, which actually does something. not that you shouldn't still hand it out, it's jut not as bad as it used to be.

[Afgncaap5]

I've never even heard of this feat before. where on earth is it from?

I'm probably going to be wrong on this, but I *think* that feat comes from a WotC article that coincided with the release of the 3 Dragon Ante game, and this odd chain of feats that would let you use the card game outside of the default RP situation (so, you could have a character who could persuade an enemy to settle a dispute with a friendly game of 3 Dragon Ante instead of risking life and limb.) It's a fun set of feats, but you've *really* gotta hope your DM's gonna be generous to use it.

[squiggit]

Afgncaap5 is correct

cards over swords lets you make a diplomacy check to challenge your enemy to a card game to resolve the encounter rather than combat. The loser of the card game is forced to surrender all of their equipment and wealth and retreat. It's from the Luck of the Draw web supplement to promote the 3 dragon ante game.

[Swaoeaeieu]

dragonmarks. All of a sudden the party members have magical tatoos that give them magic powers. Good for plot and roleplay, with some usefullness too.

[Eldaran]

cards over swords lets you make a diplomacy check to challenge your enemy to a card game to resolve the encounter rather than combat. The loser of the card game is forced to surrender all of their equipment and wealth and retreat. It's from the Luck of the Draw web supplement to promote the 3 dragon ante game.

What kind of enemy wouldn't agree to this? If you're facing down a group of adventurers you realize you're a CR appropriate encounter and stand no chance to defeat them. Take the card game and hope for a lucky win.

[Troacctid]

Definitely. It's a fun idea, but I don't see why a character can't give their spells a theme without a feat. A bonus against being countered is fun, but... honestly, I've almost never had spell countering come up from my GMs.

I give it to Warmages as a bonus feat at level 1. The class could use a buff, and I find the type of player who's interested in playing a Warmage also tends to be the type of player who enjoys turning all their fireballs into flaming skulls.

[Venger]

dragonmarks. All of a sudden the party members have magical tatoos that give them magic powers. Good for plot and roleplay, with some usefullness too.

plus all the awesome eberron classes you can qualify for.

[Khedrac]

I have just done this with some of the six feats from Complete Arcane that grant the use of 3 0th level spells as SLAs 1/day.
I await with interest to see if the PCs ever use them.

[Hellborn_Blight]

Thanks for the really great suggestions guys and gals. SOme really stand out ideas for certain campaigns have popped up. I'm gonna try to put these in a list, and then maybe rank them in some power teers/ money value for giving to players as rewards. I'll share my list when I'm done, possibly in a different thread so we can have some back and forth over it.

I'd like to add Eagle Claw Attack, Two-Weapon Defense, Throw Anything, & Expert Tactician as rewards I have given out previously.

[lonewulf]

Give them Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Peace and Non-Violence.

[Telonius]

I'll second the two-weapon Weapon Style feats. The class that gets the most use out of two-weapon fighting (Rogue) isn't proficient in half of the weapons listed, would be spending 3/4 of his feats on the prerequisites, and most of the weapons aren't finesse-able anyway. (Lightning Mace is a well-known exception, mainly for the possibility of abuse with things like Disciple of Dispater). Ranger can more easily handle the Strength and attack bonus issues; but bonus damage from Favored Enemy is still really low, and the class is feat-starved anyway. The class that most easily meets the prerequisites (Fighter) doesn't usually get any bonus damage except from Power Attack, which isn't going to be helpful when TWFing.

But if you just had the feats, nothing required? They actually give some Nice Things to melee. Special attacks, status effects, battlefield control.

[Curmudgeon]

There are a ton of fighting style feats for Monks (who really need all the love you can shower on that poor, abused class), which will never get used because the prerequisites are ridiculous.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Falling Star Strike, Freezing the Lifeblood, Unbalancing Strike, Pain Touch, Combat Expertise.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Roundabout Kick, Flying Kick, Fists of Iron, Deflect Arrows, 5 or more ranks in Jump and Tumble.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (or monk's stunning attack ability), Fists of Iron, Freezing the Lifeblood, Falling Star Strike, 6 or more ranks in Jump and Tumble

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Fists of Iron, Sunder, Eagle Claw Attack, Ki Shout, 4 or more ranks in Bluff.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Dodge, Improved Trip, Defensive Throw, Combat Reflexes, Great Throw, 6 or more ranks in Tumble.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Unbalancing Strike, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Dodge, Defensive Strike, Concentration 9 ranks.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Fists of Iron, Improved Sunder, Eagle Claw Attack, Toughness, Endurance, Roundabout Kick.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist (or monk's stunning attack), Choke Hold, Fists of Iron, Deflect Arrows.

Prerequisite: Mighty Works Mastery I, Improved Trip, Earth's Embrace, Ki Shout, Iron Will.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Lightning Reflexes, Balance 9 ranks, Jump 9 ranks, Tumble 9 ranks.

Prerequisite: Five Stars Mastery I, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Whirlwind Attack, Improved Feint.

Prerequisite: Str 13, Dirty Fighting, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike.

Prerequisite: Knock-Down, Lightning Fists, Whirlwind Attack, Broken Fist Mastery I.

Prerequisite: Dex 15, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mobility, Spring Attack.

Prerequisite: Dex 19, 8 or more ranks of Balance, Deflect Arrows, Extra Stunning Attacks, Lightning Fists, Stunning Fist, Temerad Mastery I.

Prerequisite: Dex 13, Wis 15, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, Pain Touch, Stunning Fist.

Prerequisite: Dex 15, Wis 19, 4 or more ranks of Balance, Extra Stunning Attacks, Freezing the Lifeblood, Distant Touch, Black Panda Mastery I.

Prerequisite: Str 13, Dex 14, 4 or more ranks of Jump, Flying Kick, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Ki Shout, Power Attack, Roundabout Kick.

Prerequisite: Str 14, Dex 16, 4 or more ranks of Balance, 8 or more ranks of Jump, Circle Kick, Flying Dragon Kick, Great Ki Shout, Blue Mountain Mastery I.

Prerequisite: Str 15 Choke Hold, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist.

Prerequisite: Str 17, Earth's Embrace, Fists of Iron, Knock-Down, Power Attack, Ten Ox Stomp, Koumajutsu Mastery I.


You could give a Monk one of these, waiving all prerequisites, and introduce into the game a feat that's never, ever been used before.

[Jahkin]

Spell thematics. Just... Spell thematics. It has something in it for people who like to personalize their showmanship and a small bonus, but if we're being real no one takes it unless they're trying to be less powerful. I'm pretty sure even newbie blaster wizards gravitate towards different feats.

Isn't it called "Thematic Magic?" If so, I came here to post that. It is a wonderful feat that is a bit of a waste mechanically since all it really does it reskin your class. Sure, opponents have a slightly harder time figuring out what you are casting, but that isn't much. I had a wizard with that feat and his casting style was essentially the same as Akiro the Wizard from Conan; lots of semi-throat-singing and straining gestures.

[Jahkin]

Give them Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Peace and Non-Violence.

Seconded. I had a cleric (in mountain plate) that took these vows and was working toward Saint, and I took the nonviolence/peace seriously. Was an excellent character.

[LoyalPaladin]

Track. It's a lot of fun as a feat, but it doesn't come up often enough for me to justify taking it on a character that isn't a Ranger.
This is a good choice.

In the Book of Exalted Deeds, Touch of Golden Ice is so cool. But under no circumstances should you take it...

[VariSami]

Isn't it called "Thematic Magic?" If so, I came here to post that. It is a wonderful feat that is a bit of a waste mechanically since all it really does it reskin your class. Sure, opponents have a slightly harder time figuring out what you are casting, but that isn't much. I had a wizard with that feat and his casting style was essentially the same as Akiro the Wizard from Conan; lots of semi-throat-singing and straining gestures.

No, Spell Thamatics is an actual feat in Player's Guide to Faerûn and matches the description they provided. On the other hand, what you are describing sounds more like Primitive Caster from Races of Faerûn. Albeit it might be due to the theme you chose for your character. That feat allows adding extra verbal, somatic and material components which all increase the effective level of the spell by 1 (like Heighten Spell) without using higher level slots.

Which reminds me... That might be one of the feats I would mention concerning the topic of this thread.

[illyahr]

There are a ton of fighting style feats for Monks (who really need all the love you can shower on that poor, abused class), which will never get used because the prerequisites are ridiculous.

I know what you mean. I usually give monks the psionic abilities of the psychic warrior. That does a little bit to shore up some of their weak points.

[The Viscount]

Vampire Hunter from Libris Mortis. The effect is fantastic, sense vampires and spawn around you, and gain immunity to dominating gaze of vampires and spawn. That being said, I don't think any campaign has enough vampires to justify it.

All of the feats that let you use some different stat for bonus hitpoints at level 1. It's cute to think you could dump Con, but they only apply for a single level. Who in their right mind would ever take this?

[Jahkin]

Vampire Hunter from Libris Mortis. The effect is fantastic, sense vampires and spawn around you, and gain immunity to dominating gaze of vampires and spawn. That being said, I don't think any campaign has enough vampires to justify it.

All of the feats that let you use some different stat for bonus hitpoints at level 1. It's cute to think you could dump Con, but they only apply for a single level. Who in their right mind would ever take this?

Vampire Hunter seems like a good idea if you are playing in Ravenloft.

[Venger]

Thanks for the really great suggestions guys and gals. SOme really stand out ideas for certain campaigns have popped up. I'm gonna try to put these in a list, and then maybe rank them in some power teers/ money value for giving to players as rewards. I'll share my list when I'm done, possibly in a different thread so we can have some back and forth over it.

I'd like to add Eagle Claw Attack, Two-Weapon Defense, Throw Anything, & Expert Tactician as rewards I have given out previously.

happy to help you. I'd love to see the list. all of those are also good candidates for free feats.


Give them Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Peace and Non-Violence.

unless one of your players killed your dad or something, don't inflict vow of poverty on them. it will ruin their character. vow of peace and vow of nonviolence require you to play an Exalted game which runs counter to many of the ways normal D&D works, so if they want it cuz they're playing a beguiler or something, great, but don't spring it on them without asking, or they will likely be unable to function.



No, Spell Thamatics is an actual feat in Player's Guide to Faerûn and matches the description they provided. On the other hand, what you are describing sounds more like Primitive Caster from Races of Faerûn. Albeit it might be due to the theme you chose for your character. That feat allows adding extra verbal, somatic and material components which all increase the effective level of the spell by 1 (like Heighten Spell) without using higher level slots.

Which reminds me... That might be one of the feats I would mention concerning the topic of this thread.

primitive caster was updated in frostburn and now each component you add boosts the effective caster level by 1, not the effective spell level, transforming it from a piece of trash no one cares about into a fairly useful feat.


Vampire Hunter seems like a good idea if you are playing in Ravenloft.
I'm DMing a ravenloft game currently. while there are vampires, there aren't enough to justify taking this feat, as cool as it is.

[gorfnab]

What kind of enemy wouldn't agree to this? If you're facing down a group of adventurers you realize you're a CR appropriate encounter and stand no chance to defeat them. Take the card game and hope for a lucky win.

Cards Over Swords, Card Shark, Card Cheat, Magic of the Cards -Three Dragon Ante - Luck of the Draw - Web Enhancement (http://www.ravenoaks.org/jim/3da/files/LUCK_OF_THE_DRAW.PDF)

Yugi Moto by Amechra (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12281.0) - A build and thread discussion about the potentially hilarious usage of these feats.

[Zaq]

I agree with Track. That seems like the kind of thing you should be able to do with a skill check anyway, no feat needed. It's always bothered me that you need to burn a feat (or a level) to follow someone.

Appraise Magic Value (Complete Adventurer) is similar. It really seems like you should be able to just do that sort of thing with a skill check. Of course, it won't do any good to hand that one out for free unless someone's already invested in Appraise, but there you have it.

Complete Adventurer actually has a lot of feats that are nifty but almost never worth the feat slot. Brachiation is an awesome image, but I can never see someone actually buying the feat normally. Quick Reconnoiter is really fun if you don't have to pay for the slot. Expert Tactician is cute, but it's situational enough that you'd never take it on your own.

[Sian]

In the Book of Exalted Deeds, Touch of Golden Ice is so cool. But under no circumstances should you take it...

Never tried playing an exalted Totemist?

[The Viscount]

Mutilator is an interesting idea, but it really only will mean anything for NPCs.

Water Splitting Stone is one of those Monk feats that just confuses me. It gives you +4 to damage rolls, but only against foes whose DR you cannot overcome, and 4 isn't enough to overcome any but a few class-based examples of DR.

[Venger]

Mutilator is an interesting idea, but it really only will mean anything for NPCs.

Water Splitting Stone is one of those Monk feats that just confuses me. It gives you +4 to damage rolls, but only against foes whose DR you cannot overcome, and 4 isn't enough to overcome any but a few class-based examples of DR.

speaking of severed heads, heads up is another feat I desperately want on every character I ever play, but will never pay for.

[nedz]

Ideally it should be something which reflects the context of the encounter, so some more information would be useful.

In one game I ran the party saved a Nymph from the clutches of a Lich. She immediately grappled them and ... I gave them all the Nymph's Kiss feat. :smallcool:

It was quite funny though this is quite a good feat.

[Darkweave31]

dragonmarks. All of a sudden the party members have magical tatoos that give them magic powers. Good for plot and roleplay, with some usefullness too.

I feel like they would be a lot of fun in E6... Which incidentally works well for Eberron.

[foobar1969]

What a wonderful question. There are so many splatbooks and weird Dragon articles loaded with niche feats. It really isn't hard to find lots of options that are interesting, thematic, occasionally useful, but nowhere near game-changing in power level.


good for a caster: Bloodline, Spelltouched
good for a skillster: Skill Tricks
good for a sneaker: Ambush
good for a warrior: Combat Form, Style, Tactical
good for a balanced breakfast: Heritage, Racial, Regional, etc.

(These are feat categories, not individual feats)

[gorfnab]

All of the Drow based feats from Drow of the Underdark that affect spell like abilities are kinda neat. Here is an E6 build focused on using them (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5111.0).

[foobar1969]

To continue:

Don't even bother considering whether the feats cater to builds or not. These are freebies! I bet you can find some that fit each PC's adventure history, as individuals. Places they've gone, people they've met, deeds they've done, monsters they've fought, mysteries they've uncovered.

[Story]

Appraise Magic Value (Complete Adventurer) is similar. It really seems like you should be able to just do that sort of thing with a skill check. Of course, it won't do any good to hand that one out for free unless someone's already invested in Appraise, but there you have it.


In fact, the Magical Appraisal skill trick lets you identify one item per day for free, and it only takes a minute instead of 8 hours. Though on the downside, it requires Spellcraft 12 and you have to cast Detect Magic or similar.

As far as feats noone will ever take - Corrupted Wild Shape. Ever since the errata, it literally does nothing.

[torrasque666]

all the snipped stuff


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit why did you mention it by name?!

[The Vagabond]

(Unnamed Place) is almost as bad as TVTropes in the amount of time you can waste looking at the weird stuff people came up with. And it's all official!
Never bring that site up- The mods will smite you faster than an epic level one would an Imp. Keep the site hidden- Keep any downloaded copies of the site you can maintain, just don't mention it.

Still- As stated with everyone else above- the +2 feats.

I also remember this one feat I found, called Servent of the Fallen, from Lost Empires of Faerun- Allows you to worship a dead god, and gain a +1 luck bonus once per day.

[Venger]

back on topic:

the ceremony feats provide a lot of neat effects, but are too finicky to spend slots on. they're probably a good thing to dish out to players.

[Necroticplague]

Most aberrant feats are very 'meh', even if you have all of them for max bonus. The only one's I've ever seen actually taken are Deepspawn and Inhuman Reach (outside of a homebrew class that gave bonus resources for having Aberrant feats), though I could see some use for Starspawn and Waterspawn.

[Ossian77]

One of my favorite is Heroic Surge. It is found in the Star Wars Revised Core Rule book, but it would work in any setting.

Could be a nice "late-teens" bonus feat, but it scales, so it's also fun to have from the get go. Essentially, x / a day, depending on your character level (not class level) you get one extra action (can be a move action, or even an attack action). The scale I have to check, but it was something like lvls 1-6 = 1 /day. Up to level 20 = 4/ day?

It's just what it says. Your heroes go around the land doing heroic s**t for years, they have got to have SOME extra juice that sets them apart from common people or even special people, that reservoir of willpower and badassery they can tap into they just took a bullet to the chest and there is a half gargoyle/half lava-dragon cleric of Thanatos running away with a smoking Gatling .30 mm in one hand and their beloved in the other....

[Venger]

Most aberrant feats are very 'meh', even if you have all of them for max bonus. The only one's I've ever seen actually taken are Deepspawn and Inhuman Reach (outside of a homebrew class that gave bonus resources for having Aberrant feats), though I could see some use for Starspawn and Waterspawn.

don't forget aberrant wildshape :smalltongue:

I love the aberrant feats. i wish it were easier to get a bunch of them. I also recommend deviltouched feats. cute little effects, like abberant, but just not enough oomph to justify buying them.

I really dislike how the heritage feats are all "add +1/2 the feats you have." seriously? can't it just be 1:1? or maybe more? how many of these did you think I was gonna take?

scavenging gullet is complete trash since it doesn't do anything. warped mind seems like it could be used for qualifications, if only it didn't require aberrant blood first, making it more expensive than hidden power.

starspawn is kind of neat if your DM bans items/spells that give flight and you can't be a raptoran for whatever reason. top of my head, it is unique as being a feat that grants a fly speed.

it'd be awfully nice if the energy resistance stacked for each of these feats you took.

[lsfreak]

While not something no one will take, the incarnum feats are probably the crowning glory of subsystem feats. They're useful if you use incarnum, they're useful in you don't, they're a good introduction into the whole incarnum system without shoving it into the spotlight, and with a couple exceptions they aren't powerful enough to throw off the balance of things. I've definitely handed them out in games as freebees before.

[Venger]

While not something no one will take, the incarnum feats are probably the crowning glory of subsystem feats. They're useful if you use incarnum, they're useful in you don't, they're a good introduction into the whole incarnum system without shoving it into the spotlight, and with a couple exceptions they aren't powerful enough to throw off the balance of things. I've definitely handed them out in games as freebees before.
all very true. I love incarnum dearly and for the most part, its feats are pretty cool.

for that matter, shape soulmeld is a fun little treat to give your players depending on what they're interested in. there's one for just about everything you can think of.

[Mendicant]

The various bar brawl feats like catch off-guard.

[martixy]

Most aberrant feats are very 'meh', even if you have all of them for max bonus. The only one's I've ever seen actually taken are Deepspawn and Inhuman Reach (outside of a homebrew class that gave bonus resources for having Aberrant feats), though I could see some use for Starspawn and Waterspawn.

Third this.
Very meh as far as actual impact goes(with the exception of extended reach for martials), but kind of cool otherwise.

I'm running a freak character in one campaign and the only reason I took them was because of the more generous feat rules.

[daremetoidareyo]

The luck feats have been mentioned.
Run/endurance/diehard has been mentioned.
The spelltouched have been mentioned.

And here are the combos you need to watch out for and/or implement:

Diehard + tempting fate: one time use free damage reduction, take any amount of damage and have it return you to -9, where diehard will keep you standing.

Residual rebound + Survivors luck + Dumb Luck: Reflect the spell back at the caster on a save roll of natural 20, including touch spells. Survivors luck allows you to reroll a failed save, doubling your chances of a natural 20. Further, once a day, dumb luck allows you treat a natural 1 as a natural 20, thereby doubling your chances of reflecting the spell (10% chance).

[Amphetryon]

I can't recall anyone taking the Snatch Trophy Feat from CoR. It's a highly situational bonus to Intimidate and some ancillary Fear bits that basically forces you to define your adventurer around it.

[LTwerewolf]

Teamwork feats are pretty good for warlords to take imo.

[ace rooster]

Run should be far more useful than it typically is, at least for characters with dex based AC. The extra speed is a bit meh for a feat, but losing dex to AC can be a big deal, particularly at low levels or against rogues. Assassins deserve special mention due to getting snipers shot. They can rapid shot away at you from 400+ feet, and if you run at them they can make those attacks sneak attacks. The only issue is that most DMs don't often use this, not least because it feels cheap against opponents without the run feat.

Endurance really is trash though. Being able to sleep in heavy armour might make it worth it, but medium armour just sucks. The only time it might be Ok is if you already have badass mithral full plate and have a DM that is partial to attacking while you sleep. Not attacking you obviously, as you will be in a rope trick, but you probably can't fit a whole caravan in there. For giggles they give it for free to rangers, who are not proficient with medium armour anyway. For double giggles they give it to horses, despite not allowing barding to be worn for long periods of time at all. :smallconfused:

[Chronos]

Quoth Oriental Adventures, via Curmudgeon:

Originally Posted by Mighty Works Mastery I
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist (or monk's stunning attack), Choke Hold, Fists of Iron, Deflect Arrows.

Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Works Mastery II
Prerequisite: Mighty Works Mastery I, Improved Trip, Earth's Embrace, Ki Shout, Iron Will.

Good lord-- Even after you remove the ones that a monk can get as a bonus feat, this means that Mighty Works Mastery II requires seven different prerequisite feats. As in, as many feats as a character gets over an entire 1-20 career. Or possibly more, if some of those other feats also have prerequisites. In other words, this is functionally an epic feat. And what does it give you? You can use your Stunning Fist to do a little strength damage instead of stunning. That's it.

[Aleolus]

Give them Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Peace and Non-Violence.

I'm going to recommend against this. I have seen a character abuse VoP to the point he was UNGODLY. Partially my fault, I allowed him to take non-exalted feats for the VoP bonus feats, plus I gave access to third party feats

[Zaq]

I can't recall anyone taking the Snatch Trophy Feat from CoR. It's a highly situational bonus to Intimidate and some ancillary Fear bits that basically forces you to define your adventurer around it.

I vaguely recall someone in the Dread Pirate round of Iron Chef using it, but I might be mistaken about that.

[pwcsponson]

Whirlwind attack. A cool feat for melee characters that is just too situational to ever spend all those feats on prereqs.

Whirlwind is great for characters who took feats other than the prerequisite feats for whirlwind. :smallannoyed:
That being said, I usually just buy it on my weapon.

[Curmudgeon]

Good lord-- Even after you remove the ones that a monk can get as a bonus feat, this means that Mighty Works Mastery II requires seven different prerequisite feats. As in, as many feats as a character gets over an entire 1-20 career. Or possibly more, if some of those other feats also have prerequisites. In other words, this is functionally an epic feat. And what does it give you? You can use your Stunning Fist to do a little strength damage instead of stunning. That's it.
I know. Wizards of the Coast basically pinned a big "KICK ME" sign on the Monk when they created it, and it's been there ever since. Monks are not proficient with their most important weapon (unarmed strike). The weapons they are proficient with are mostly exotic (exotic as in weird, not powerful). They can freely select their bonus feats regardless of prerequisites, but cannot use those feats without meeting the prerequisites. And, of course, their class abilities either are useless or at cross-purposes (like bonuses to speed when they have to stand still and make full attacks).

Is there any other feat tree in D&D as bad as those Monk fighting styles (11 feats)? I don't know of any.

[HurinTheCursed]

I would offer these "useless" feat often used as prerequisites: endurance, improved unarmed strike, combat expertise...
Offer new possibilities for your players when they would be feat-tight.
Extend spell would also be nice to incent magic users to buff mundane.



One of my favorite is Heroic Surge. It is found in the Star Wars Revised Core Rule book, but it would work in any setting.

Could be a nice "late-teens" bonus feat, but it scales, so it's also fun to have from the get go. Essentially, x / a day, depending on your character level (not class level) you get one extra action (can be a move action, or even an attack action). The scale I have to check, but it was something like lvls 1-6 = 1 /day. Up to level 20 = 4/ day?

It's just what it says. Your heroes go around the land doing heroic s**t for years, they have got to have SOME extra juice that sets them apart from common people or even special people, that reservoir of willpower and badassery they can tap into they just took a bullet to the chest and there is a half gargoyle/half lava-dragon cleric of Thanatos running away with a smoking Gatling .30 mm in one hand and their beloved in the other....

I tend to think as a very strong feat for martial.
In dragonlance supplements where it also exists, I picked it at level 6, our paladin picked it after and our druid wanted to pick it for his companion.
Position yourself for your action, move away after, full attack skirmish, run from an overwhelming danger, make an extra attack or switch to full defense against the boss... Mundane keep on being useful longer with that and it brings an edge to any game.
It gives the feeling of being heroic and is a good one for important NPCs as well.

[Bayar]

Grell alchemy from Lords of Madness. Can qualify easily for it, not limited to grells, +2 to spell penetration, -2 for opposite spellcraft check to identify your spells and -2 to opposite dispel checks, and lets you craft grell items. Nifty things like crystals if you want to make some bizarre furniture or LIGHTNING LANCES. These things are crazy good, 3d6 lightning damage 5 times per day with only a ranged touch attack ? No save ? sweet. Also, it has a bigger brother that deals 5d6 damage 7 times per day.

[nedz]

I know. Wizards of the Coast basically pinned a big "KICK ME" sign on the Monk when they created it, and it's been there ever since. Monks are not proficient with their most important weapon (unarmed strike). The weapons they are proficient with are mostly exotic (exotic as in weird, not powerful). They can freely select their bonus feats regardless of prerequisites, but cannot use those feats without meeting the prerequisites. And, of course, their class abilities either are useless or at cross-purposes (like bonuses to speed when they have to stand still and make full attacks).

Is there any other feat tree in D&D as bad as those Monk fighting styles (11 feats)? I don't know of any.

Well Sudden Quicken has six other Sudden feats as it's prereqs, so you'd have to like Sudden Metamagic a lot to ever pick this one up. Mind you Wizards do get several bonus feats.

[WhamBamSam]

thrall to demon/disciple of darkness/scion of sorrow whatever the goody two-shoes version is are perfect for the kind of interesting feats that should be granted as a story bonus. they don't do much, and they are prereqs for all kinds of awesome stuff like hellsworn knight/demonsworn knight/tormented knight, which are also good candidates for you.
I also remember this one feat I found, called Servent of the Fallen, from Lost Empires of Faerun- Allows you to worship a dead god, and gain a +1 luck bonus once per day.There's also Servant of a Dragon Ascendant in Dragons of Faerun, which is similar to the other servant feats, but significantly better (apart from nothing requiring it as a a prereq) due to the bad writing/editing that hovers over all of the dragon books. It lacks the 1/day language of the others, so you can get help from your draconic patron on every attack roll, saving throw, ability check, and level check that you ever make.

My personal headcannon for this is that gods need prayer badly, and being a relative upstart on the cosmic scale, a mere 12th level Dragon Ascendant has to sweeten the pot and provide a more responsive service in order to draw in worshippers.


speaking of severed heads, heads up is another feat I desperately want on every character I ever play, but will never pay for.This is glorious. I feel like there must be a way to make use of this feat. So far all I've come up with involves a warren of kobolds breeding heavily templated hydras, but there's got to be some potential there. It's a nice back pocket feat for Chameleons, at least.


I'm going to recommend against this. I have seen a character abuse VoP to the point he was UNGODLY. Partially my fault, I allowed him to take non-exalted feats for the VoP bonus feats, plus I gave access to third party featsThat sounds like the sort of thing that would almost make VoP worth taking.

Without getting too off topic, the issue was less that he was abusing Vow of Poverty (even the described houserules might not be enough for it to outperform well spent WBL, unless the 3rd party feats were really, really borked), and more that he was optimizing his use of Vow of Poverty to a much greater extent than the rest of the table was optimizing their use of money (or that you the DM were giving them well below WBL, so that VoP became a better deal).

It's still a bad idea, just for the exact opposite of the reason you're suggesting, namely that VoP will almost certainly make the character worse, and the other vows might well make them downright unplayable.

[Story]

I'm going to recommend against this. I have seen a character abuse VoP to the point he was UNGODLY. Partially my fault, I allowed him to take non-exalted feats for the VoP bonus feats, plus I gave access to third party feats

Isn't this basically saying that if you houserule it to make it much, much better, it might end up too good? Seems kind of obvious.

Of course, even allowing 3rd party feats in the first place is broken, depending on the particular feats in question.

[Venger]

Isn't this basically saying that if you houserule it to make it much, much better, it might end up too good? Seems kind of obvious.

Of course, even allowing 3rd party feats in the first place is broken, depending on the particular feats in question.

so... giving someone a bunch of free feats is broken, not actually VoP. yeah, that sounds about right.

even then, you shouldn't jam VoP onto someone, it'll really mess up their characters.

[Rubik]

so... giving someone a bunch of free feats is broken, not actually VoP. yeah, that sounds about right.

even then, you shouldn't jam VoP onto someone, it'll really mess up their characters.Unless they ignore the vow, keep their WBL, and DCFS out the VoP? Because then it's a (nearly) free feat.

[Hellborn_Blight]

Wow you guys have given me a lot of work to do lol. I'm pretty much done working on my Monk Homebrew Ideas (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?419435-3-5-Homebrew-Monk-Help) now, so I'll start work in earnest on this. I work the graveyard shift so I usually have a few hours in the morning where I can start combining and sorting this (unless my three month old son is being rambunctious:smallbiggrin:). Feel free to continue adding to it as I'll just grab and insert them as I go. Thanks agian for all the suggestions.

[Venger]

Unless they ignore the vow, keep their WBL, and DCFS out the VoP? Because then it's a (nearly) free feat.

if you break your vow, you lose it and its benefits (including the other feats) so you'd need to DCFS all that first before you break the rules.

[Aleolus]

I know. Wizards of the Coast basically pinned a big "KICK ME" sign on the Monk when they created it, and it's been there ever since. Monks are not proficient with their most important weapon (unarmed strike). The weapons they are proficient with are mostly exotic (exotic as in weird, not powerful). They can freely select their bonus feats regardless of prerequisites, but cannot use those feats without meeting the prerequisites. And, of course, their class abilities either are useless or at cross-purposes (like bonuses to speed when they have to stand still and make full attacks).

Is there any other feat tree in D&D as bad as those Monk fighting styles (11 feats)? I don't know of any.

Monk is actually significantly improved in 3.5. They automatically get Improved Unarmed Strike at level one, they can freely use whatever bonus feats they get, and probably several other improvements (I'm not really familiar with 3.0, other than Paladins being royal crap in comparison to 3.5. I mean, Lay on Hands before Smite, and you never get more than one Smite a day without burning feats? Come on).

And as for the feats he was using, Unarmored Proficiency, Unarmored Focus, Unarmored Specialization, Unarmored Mastery. With all 4, your BASE ac changes from 10 to 10+your hd. So, at level 14, he had an ac of 24+dex, +wis (monk) +con (Fist of the Forest) + Int (Duelist), plus all the bonuses of VoP. I looked, and even gods would have needed absurdly high rolls to hit him

[Necroticplague]

And as for the feats he was using, Unarmored Proficiency, Unarmored Focus, Unarmored Specialization, Unarmored Mastery. With all 4, your BASE ac changes from 10 to 10+your hd. So, at level 14, he had an ac of 24+dex, +wis (monk) +con (Fist of the Forest) + Int (Duelist), plus all the bonuses of VoP. I looked, and even gods would have needed absurdly high rolls to hit him

That last part really isn't that significant. Gods generally have poor stats, and have to lean on their divinity as a crutch, especially given their status as Epic characters.

[ryu]

Monk is actually significantly improved in 3.5. They automatically get Improved Unarmed Strike at level one, they can freely use whatever bonus feats they get, and probably several other improvements (I'm not really familiar with 3.0, other than Paladins being royal crap in comparison to 3.5. I mean, Lay on Hands before Smite, and you never get more than one Smite a day without burning feats? Come on).

And as for the feats he was using, Unarmored Proficiency, Unarmored Focus, Unarmored Specialization, Unarmored Mastery. With all 4, your BASE ac changes from 10 to 10+your hd. So, at level 14, he had an ac of 24+dex, +wis (monk) +con (Fist of the Forest) + Int (Duelist), plus all the bonuses of VoP. I looked, and even gods would have needed absurdly high rolls to hit him

At this level people who want to hurt people have better ways of doing so than going for any form of attack roll.

[Story]

And as for the feats he was using, Unarmored Proficiency, Unarmored Focus, Unarmored Specialization, Unarmored Mastery. With all 4, your BASE ac changes from 10 to 10+your hd. So, at level 14, he had an ac of 24+dex, +wis (monk) +con (Fist of the Forest) + Int (Duelist), plus all the bonuses of VoP. I looked, and even gods would have needed absurdly high rolls to hit him

The thing is that AC is only one defense among many.

Also, if you're going Fist of the Forest, why no Deepwarden? You could also throw in a Delvahr-Nar bind for another 1/2 con to AC too.

[Venger]

Monk is actually significantly improved in 3.5. They automatically get Improved Unarmed Strike at level one, they can freely use whatever bonus feats they get, and probably several other improvements (I'm not really familiar with 3.0, other than Paladins being royal crap in comparison to 3.5. I mean, Lay on Hands before Smite, and you never get more than one Smite a day without burning feats? Come on).

And as for the feats he was using, Unarmored Proficiency, Unarmored Focus, Unarmored Specialization, Unarmored Mastery. With all 4, your BASE ac changes from 10 to 10+your hd. So, at level 14, he had an ac of 24+dex, +wis (monk) +con (Fist of the Forest) + Int (Duelist), plus all the bonuses of VoP. I looked, and even gods would have needed absurdly high rolls to hit him

monk is the worst class in the game. they get plenty of bonus feats, but they're all terrible (even with the necessary houserule that they do function despite their mangled wording)

paladin was not significantly changed. it's still a terrible class in 3.5 mechanically, to say nothing of DMs with a mission to make every one of them fall and strip away their meager class features.

those feats are all garbage. the gods (or any halfway decent character half his level) could kill him while they were asleep. unless you're an abjchamp or similar, AC does nothing to protect you beyond very low levels, and even then is neutralized by either touch attacks, or effects that don't require attack rolls.

(also gods don't roll, they treat all their rolls as nat20s)

[Rubik]

if you break your vow, you lose it and its benefits (including the other feats) so you'd need to DCFS all that first before you break the rules.Uh... No?

You get a free feat by swapping out VoP, whether you've broken the vow or not. And you lose all the bonus feats VoP grants you whether you've broken the vow or just swapped it out, because VoP is still granting you the bonus feats, regardless of what they are swapped out with. So just keep your WBL, swap out VoP, and enjoy your ONE free feat. Which you still get. Because even if you lose the benefits of the feat, the feat itself is still there.

[Curmudgeon]

Monk is actually significantly improved in 3.5. They automatically get Improved Unarmed Strike at level one, they can freely use whatever bonus feats they get
Nope.
Bonus Feat: At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

Prerequisites

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite. Monks have a bypass for "select", but not for "use". This gives them flexibility in when they acquire their bonus feats, but nothing else.

[Hellborn_Blight]

So while I'm guessing most people don't take RAW so strictly as to not let a Monk do the crappily implemented and designed things it clearly is supposed to, it definitely points out that this list is gonna require a house rule to the effect of, "If you gain a bonus feat from any where, you don't need to mean the prerequisites of the feat to use it."

I have all the individual feats copied, and now am in the process of going through the following list to dig out the feats themselves.

ceremony feats
aberrant feats
incarnum feats
Martial Adept Feats (I added this)
The “Sudden” line of meta magic feats.
"Drow based feats from Drow of the Underdark that affect spell like abilities"
Bloodline feats
two-weapon Weapon Style feats
deformity feats
regional feats
heritage feats
spelltouched feats
dragonmarks
The teamwork feats.
The luck feats

I'm leaving out the exalted feats, mostly because they can make decisions about a players character for them. At least normally. The house rule could technically override this, but then the feat would really be meaningless, as either all the flavor is ruined by them ignoring it, or you are now marionetting their character. Now, a refluff on some could work, like Intuitive Attack (NEVER should have been exalted), but the vows are just too specific to use in all but the cases where a character was gonna take them anyway.

[Venger]

So while I'm guessing most people don't take RAW so strictly as to not let a Monk do the crappily implemented and designed things it clearly is supposed to, it definitely points out that this list is gonna require a house rule to the effect of, "If you gain a bonus feat from any where, you don't need to mean the prerequisites of the feat to use it."
curmudgeon doesn't either. in practical play, he lets monks have their feats like he lets cunning surge works. the point stands though that by RAW, a lot of monk fails to function properly.

I have all the individual feats copied, and now am in the process of going through the following list to dig out the feats themselves.


ceremony feats
aberrant feats
incarnum feats
Martial Adept Feats (I added this)
The “Sudden” line of meta magic feats.
"Drow based feats from Drow of the Underdark that affect spell like abilities"
Bloodline feats
two-weapon Weapon Style feats
deformity feats
regional feats
heritage feats
spelltouched feats
dragonmarks
The teamwork feats.
The luck feats

I'm leaving out the exalted feats, mostly because they can make decisions about a players character for them. At least normally. The house rule could technically override this, but then the feat would really be meaningless, as either all the flavor is ruined by them ignoring it, or you are now marionetting their character. Now, a refluff on some could work, like Intuitive Attack (NEVER should have been exalted), but the vows are just too specific to use in all but the cases where a character was gonna take them anyway.
that looks like a fine list. good call on the exalted feats. I agree completely.

[thethird]

Grell alchemy from Lords of Madness. Can qualify easily for it, not limited to grells, +2 to spell penetration, -2 for opposite spellcraft check to identify your spells and -2 to opposite dispel checks, and lets you craft grell items. Nifty things like crystals if you want to make some bizarre furniture or LIGHTNING LANCES. These things are crazy good, 3d6 lightning damage 5 times per day with only a ranged touch attack ? No save ? sweet. Also, it has a bigger brother that deals 5d6 damage 7 times per day.

I love Grell Alchemy on ma artificers. It is an item creation feat that applies to all items and when combined with magical artisan is just so nifty.

[Hellborn_Blight]

curmudgeon doesn't either. in practical play, he lets monks have their feats like he lets cunning surge works. the point stands though that by RAW, a lot of monk fails to function properly.

Yeah, I didn't expect he did. Nothing wrong with having a solid grasp on mechanics, just using it to segway my train of thought more than anything. But man, there is a pang in my heart being reminded about the Factotum. I played one from levels 7-24 and it was like being bit by your favorite pet when someone told me that technically that ability was mechanically broken. I would never rule it that way, but it still sucks just knowing that:smallfrown:

But you have to wonder why they never officially errated those things. They relied too heavily on the FAQ, and on top of that gave it no teeth.

[Venger]

Yeah, I didn't expect he did. Nothing wrong with having a solid grasp on mechanics, just using it to segway my train of thought more than anything. But man, there is a pang in my heart being reminded about the Factotum. I played one from levels 7-24 and it was like being bit by your favorite pet when someone told me that technically that ability was mechanically broken. I would never rule it that way, but it still sucks just knowing that:smallfrown:

But you have to wonder why they never officially errated those things. They relied too heavily on the FAQ, and on top of that gave it no teeth.

well, it is important to know when things are broken so you can fix them. as great as the image of riding a segway on a train is, it's "segue" when you're changing topic.

though it pains me to disagree with curmudgeon, factotum is my favorite class. probably the simplest way to get everyone to agree on cunning surge is his fix of making it a swift. that way you can use it and act, plus you can't get more than one extra standard a round with it.

no, you really don't. the late-run 3.5 stuff never received any errata because the staff all knew they were on their way out. it's like senioritis. you're already accepted to college, so there's no point in working hard anymore, you're already set and can just wizards of the coast until graduation.

don't worry too much about what nonsense the FAQ says, since it's not RAW

[Blackhawk748]

I second the Ceremony Feats, they are cool but usually not worth the feat, and i put forth Hammer Weapon and Torch, its a great feat....for E6 if your not getting an iterative.

[Venger]

I second the Ceremony Feats, they are cool but usually not worth the feat, and i put forth Hammer and Torch, its a great feat....for E6 if your getting an iterative.

I think you mean "weapon and torch" to get iteratives. there's another feat I mentioned called "hammer and piton" that got thrown into the mix.

[Blackhawk748]

I think you mean "weapon and torch" to get iteratives. there's another feat I mentioned called "hammer and piton" that got thrown into the mix.

-_- Ya thats what i meant. Apparently i read half of the first line and half of the second.

[martixy]

Er... which feats are the teamwork feats exactly?

Also, as far as luck feats, I've been thinking of a system that combines the mechanic of action points into the luck feats.

Something like:
Now all characters gain a new feature - a pool of luck points(which can be used to modify a roll).
The luck feats grant a few of those per day instead of luck rerolls, but their main function being to provide options to expend your luck pool.
A nat 20 giving/restoring points.

[Hellborn_Blight]

So I'm pretty much done now, but I have some questions/comments before I finish. The only feats I see that are teamworks feats are pathfinder. There are feats that you need to qualify for the teamwork bonuses, but they aren't teamwork feats in any other capacity. Am I missing them, or is there some confusion surrounding them?

I'm hesitant to use too many of the vile feats, for basically the same reason as why I don't want to use too many exalted ones. So I have the deformity list, as they can be explained away in a simple manner via story, but I'm not sure I'll include many beyond that as many require actively performing evil acts for them to be of any use.

[Venger]

I'm hesitant to use too many of the vile feats, for basically the same reason as why I don't want to use too many exalted ones. So I have the deformity list, as they can be explained away in a simple manner via story, but I'm not sure I'll include many beyond that as many require actively performing evil acts for them to be of any use.

just refluff them. despite what D&D's screwed up morality system thinks, there's nothing wrong with looking different from other people. if you don't want having claws to mean that you're a devil worshipper, then just ax the fluffreq, same as exalted feats.

[Story]

So I'm pretty much done now, but I have some questions/comments before I finish. The only feats I see that are teamworks feats are pathfinder. There are feats that you need to qualify for the teamwork bonuses, but they aren't teamwork feats in any other capacity. Am I missing them, or is there some confusion surrounding them?

HoB and DMG2 have Teamwork Benefits, but they're a seperate system, not feats. I can't find anything called Teamwork Feats.

[Venger]

HoB and DMG2 have Teamwork Benefits, but they're a seperate system, not feats. I can't find anything called Teamwork Feats.

story is correct. there is no such thing as teamwork feats.

[torrasque666]

story is correct. there is no such thing as teamwork feats.
There is in Pathfinder.

[Telok]

story is correct. there is no such thing as teamwork feats.
Phalanx Fighting, Swarm Fighting, those shield feats that help your allies but not you. You know, feats that need teamwork to function.

[Hellborn_Blight]

Phalanx Fighting, Swarm Fighting, those shield feats that help your allies but not you. You know, feats that need teamwork to function.

I can add these. Care to drop a few more names?

[Ethelesin]

Ocular Spell, because laser eyes never go out of style.

[ghanjrho]

I can add these. Care to drop a few more names?

Teamwork work incredibly well as bonus feats because they require multiple people to have the feat to trigger. Be warned, however, that some of them get extremely strong if several members of the party have them.

[Feint's End]

I love spell thematics. treating spls as +1 level is often used for early entry tricks, so if you disapprove of those, beware of handing it out for free.

up the walls is fun for a PC who wants to run on the walls like john woo movies.

That's not what spell thematics does though (in fact rising the actual spell level would make this feat overpowered as hell). It let's you choose one spell (IIRC?) each level to have a higher caster level with. Which is far from being as good.

On another note I personally think up to walls is a pretty viable build up to the point where you get casting. It adds really nice options to otherwise limited melee characters. Definitely worth it if you are already psionic.

[Venger]

That's not what spell thematics does though (in fact rising the actual spell level would make this feat overpowered as hell). It let's you choose one spell (IIRC?) each level to have a higher caster level with. Which is far from being as good.

On another note I personally think up to walls is a pretty viable build up to the point where you get casting. It adds really nice options to otherwise limited melee characters. Definitely worth it if you are already psionic.

I know that. It is useful for things like mindbender or acolyte of the skin which require a certain caster level. I should've been more clear

Yeah up the walls is fun but not useful enough to pay for. Perfect for the thread

[Aleolus]

Vatic Gaze is really cool, if minor. Detect Magic at will, can determine the highest level spell a person can cast with a Spellcraft check