Dvati classes questions

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

So looking through the Dragon Compendium I notice the dvati race. after reading it and looking at forums online they seem to be a weak race since they share actions. but i would like to give them a try. i have two classes that i would like to try them with but can't determine how the race would work with them.

A. the first class is artificer
1. can dvati cast two infusions at the same time. i know that infusions are not spells but act like them.
2. can one dvati stay and craft while ones goes out and travels.
3. can one dvati aid the other as he crafts to get a bonus to the check

B. the second class is bard
1. since it take a standard action to activate bardic music. would a dvati bard using bardic music give double the bonuses.

[OldTrees1]

A1 Expect your DM to say no. Infusions are very much like spells and Artificers are already Tier 1.
A2 Yes
A3 Yes
B1 No. Bonuses of the same type don't* stack.

Also Dvati are not weak. They only share spellcasting actions. So for the most part they get 2x the actions as other races. Their weaknesses are having less health and having to split their wealth between 2 characters.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The race is so poorly written that you're really just going to have to work most of these questions-- and many, many more-- out with your GM.

[LentilNinja]

You know what works well for them? Fiend of Possession prestige class

[Lloyd-Starbuck]

Also Dvati are not weak. They only share spellcasting actions. So for the most part they get 2x the actions as other races. Their weaknesses are having less health and having to split their wealth between 2 characters.

looking at other forums. it is not known if the dvati get 2x actions. (really wish they did)

if i'm not allowed the 2x the actions. would it still be possible to attack with both dvati as long as both don't move since a attack is a standard action.

[Socratov]

looking at other forums. it is not known if the dvati get 2x actions. (really wish they did)

if i'm not allowed the 2x the actions. would it still be possible to attack with both dvati as long as both don't move since a attack is a standard action.

e4xcept that you do, as you control 2 persons sijultaneously. The only thing you can't do is cast 2 spells at the same time...

[torrasque666]

The entry states that they are two separate creatures. Each creature gets its own suite of actions. To disallow this would be a houserule.

[Troacctid]

It is known. They explicitly have separate sets of actions. This is referenced multiple times in their rules.

[Darrin]

To clarify, the "share only one set of actions" comes from a private email from Mike McArtor, one of the editors for the Dragon Compendium, which was posted to a Paizo forum. The original post:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2gmy0&page=1?Two-Characters-for-One-Player-Is-it-Balanced#31

I don't know if anyone ever followed up with Mr. McArtor on the issue, but it looks like it's just an off-the-cuff opinion, and was never intended to be an official ruling or part of the errata. As it appears to contradict the rules text (which admittedly isn't entirely clear), you'll want to consider his opinion with a large grain of salt.

I posted two emails from Talon Dunning (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=7815509&postcount=32), which may give you some additional context about how the original designer intended them to work, but he wasn't involved in adapting the Dvati to 3rd edition rules, and he doesn't entirely embrace a particular stance on how many actions they get.

Personally, I'm in the "full set of actions for each twin" camp, but someone who's actually played a pair of Dvati in a game could hopefully give us a better idea on what works best from a more practical standpoint.

[OldTrees1]

Personally, I'm in the "full set of actions for each twin" camp, but someone who's actually played a pair of Dvati in a game could hopefully give us a better idea on what works best from a more practical standpoint.

I played a Dvati Cleric/Crusader.

Yes, while the 2 full sets of actions is powerful, it is partially offset by the weaknesses(half hp, double targeting, equipping 2 bodies). The alternative would end up weaker than no race.

I found myself having to have an unequal wealth distribution and occasionally burn actions on Aid Another to make up the difference. However this was with a Healer/Martial hybrid and my table's optimization level (PO) is slightly lower than this forum's normal. So I would expect the 2 full sets of actions Dvati to be a reasonable but strong race. The only concerns I can see is if a "caster" (Psion, Artificer) was allows to cast "spells" (Powers, Infusions) without the action economy penalty, or if a table had rebalanced casters and non casters.

[Heliomance]

My (very limited,mostly an aborted PbP game) experience suggests that the having to get two fullsets of equipment on one dose of WBL is absolutely crippling. Being a crafter would help, as would playing a gear-independent class. They don't work especially well as casters though, which takes out most of those, and a Dvati Incarnate or Totemist just raises so many rules questions it's probably not worth the headache.

[Segev]

I'm fond of a Dvati Cleric->War Hulk build, myself. Spiked Chain and bigger size categories mean you have a huge reach area between the two of them.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Crusader works quite well. They can be in different stances, they can use maneuvers like Shield Block to help each other, and they can both make attacks and use maneuvers independently of one another since only spells require both bodies' actions. Both would share the same pool of granted maneuvers, but just have one use a maneuver and the other attack with Stone Power, and alternate between which one does each of those. The greatest downside to this is the fact that you have to buy two sets of equipment.

Bard could actually work for you if you get the dragonblood subtype (Dragontouched feat), and have one do a normal Inspire Courage and the other do Dragonfire Inspiration.

Incarnate or Totemist would be useful, considering each body can have different soulmelds shaped. Both would use a shared pool of Essentia, but otherwise they would act independently of one another.

Binder could be useful, depending on whether each one could bind a different vestige. Even if both have to bind the same vestige, you could pick ones that get active abilities that both bodies can activate independently.

I'm wondering, if you add Dragonborn of Bahamut to a Dvati, you would keep your physical traits (two bodies, two sets of actions), but lose racial traits (both bodies have to spend an action to cast a spell). This could be used to overcome one of their greatest drawbacks, depending on how it's interpreted.

[torrasque666]

I'm wondering, if you add Dragonborn of Bahamut to a Dvati, you would keep your physical traits (two bodies, two sets of actions), but lose racial traits (both bodies have to spend an action to cast a spell). This could be used to overcome one of their greatest drawbacks, depending on how it's interpreted.
The whole "Two Souls" thing is part of the Twins (Ex) racial trait. So two would go into the egg, and one would come out.

[Dr. Azkur]

The whole "Two Souls" thing is part of the Twins (Ex) racial trait. So two would go into the egg, and one would come out.

That's soooo cooooooooooooool!!!

A pair of Dvati twins, questing to become whole, find a way: Pledging service to Bahamut and taking up arms against the chromatic dragons. Nice, specially mid-campaign.


I'm fond of a Dvati Cleric->War Hulk build, myself. Spiked Chain and bigger size categories mean you have a huge reach area between the two of them.

How would you enter War Hulk as a Dvati with the size requirement?

Half-Minotaur/Half-Ogre Dvati sounds interesting enough. It would take a really mad wizard to try and create such a creature...

[Troacctid]

Master of Many Forms could be pretty nice for a Dvati. Who needs gear when you can shapeshift into two crazy monsters? Heck, you could even decide two twins aren't enough and turn yourselves into black puddings to become quadruplets. Or octuplets. Or dodecatuplets. You know. Whatever.

[Anlashok]

Personally, I'm in the "full set of actions for each twin" camp, but someone who's actually played a pair of Dvati in a game could hopefully give us a better idea on what works best from a more practical standpoint.

We had a game with a Dvati where the DM ruled that you get one set of actions for the whole Dvati and it was beyond terrible. Slightly more than half your total HP, split WbL and +1 LA in exchange for... +1 to your flanking bonus (good luck triggering that with only one move action) and +2 to aiding yourself (and good luck making that work too).

Echo Attack isn't even really worth mentioning.


I mean. There are a lot of things in 3.5 that are really bad but a Dvati ruled to only have one set of actions is probably the worst PC race in the entire game.