Troll bard

[BWR]

So for reasons a player of mine has rolled up a troll bard with a Charisma of 1. Race, class and (crappy) ability scores are non-negotiable because the player is thrilled about the idea. However, I'm trying to think of options to make this character not be total suck, preferably something that exchanges spellcasting for something else.

This is Pathfinder but I'm open to suggestions from just about any source. Oh, and all mental ability scores are under 10. Worst comes to worst I'll throw together some sort of troll bard archetype for him to look at, but other ideas are always welcome.

[Extra Anchovies]

Note that he won't be able to cast spells. If you're open to third-party content (specifically Dreamscarred Press's Path of War series), consider the Rubato archetype from this document (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tbBIinA90VQW8eriM0TZTZCbHsSU6cdv7_44J8w564s/edit), which trades away casting for better combat abilities (in the form of maneuvers and new uses for bardic performance).

[Lorddenorstrus]

So for reasons a player of mine has rolled up a troll bard with a Charisma of 1. Race, class and (crappy) ability scores are non-negotiable because the player is thrilled about the idea. However, I'm trying to think of options to make this character not be total suck, preferably something that exchanges spellcasting for something else.

This is Pathfinder but I'm open to suggestions from just about any source. Oh, and all mental ability scores are under 10. Worst comes to worst I'll throw together some sort of troll bard archetype for him to look at, but other ideas are always welcome.

You want a spellcaster class.. to function with ability scores sup 10 where he can't even cast the spells. I'm sorry but enthused about his poor idea or not you need to shatter this one before it goes to far. It simply doesn't even function.

However if you replace his Bard class with another class and emulate this basically (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?195049-Help-Me-Be-Annoying-with-a-Barbarian-Wizard)

That's not REALLY a wizard but he acted like one. So let mr troll here act like a Bard all he wants but for function sake replace it with a different class.

[Geddy2112]

I...I love this idea, despite how terrible it is. Unfortunately none of the bard archtypes replace spellcasting. However, the bard can still use their performances(although not many rounds per day). You also want an archtype that replaces versitile performance, as that hit to charisma skills is not helping any other skills...I suggest something a bit more bash happy like Arcane Duelist or Dervish Dancer. Arcane duelist has rallying cry and bladethirst performances which fits...well whatever it is a troll "performs" and a lot of mechanics focused around fighting. A dervish dancer would be awesome, a troll dancing around(in practice, stomping and smashing) everything in their path. As far as replacing spellcasting, there is a witch archtype that casts off constitution, so you could do that but I don't know how balanced that would be. Maybe just give the bard bigger hit dice and armor proficiency?

[D4rkh0rus]

Well, You can always draw from 3rd party 3.x

Lost Tradition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=10203238&postcount=2)

is a 3rd party feat that allows you to change your casting stat, so say, have him swap to something more appropriate like dexterity or strength.

[ShurikVch]

Divine Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard) is not an option?
Or Prestige Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard)?

Also, which Troll you used?

[torrasque666]

Divine Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantDivineBard) is not an option?
Or Prestige Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard)?

Also, which Troll you used?
Its pathfinder bro.

[jiriku]

I'd suggest a custom feat. You're not going to get any traction on this one without homebrew.

[ShurikVch]

Its pathfinder bro.:smallconfused:
Troll, Advanced (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/giants/troll/troll-advanced): Cha 10, and only 1 CR more

[Extra Anchovies]

:smallconfused:
Troll, Advanced (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/giants/troll/troll-advanced): Cha 10, and only 1 CR more

Those are pregenerated stats. Presumably (since OP's bard has a 1) OP's group is rolling for ability scores. Also he said this:

ability scores are non-negotiable

[ShurikVch]

Low-Cha Bard is even worse in Pathfinder than in 3.5: Bardic Performance can be used "for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Charisma modifier", in our case it will be "minus 1"

The only CF he will be able to use at all is Bardic Knowledge

Basically, NPC Expert can do it better

The only reasons to not re-roll 1 in primary ability score is to switch it later to non-ability (but "Cha: -" is only for objects), or redirect to other ability (Class variant with different primary ability, Lost Tradition, Divine Conversion, Draconic Psychosis, and so on...)

[Platymus Pus]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/rogue-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/physical-exemplar#TOC-Bard
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/rogue-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/spellhammer#TOC-Bard
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/rogue-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/cloakfighter#TOC-Bard
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/rogue-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/weapon-champion#TOC-Bard
Stuff like that?
I assume he's maxing all of his other stats if he has 1 cha. :P

[Extra Anchovies]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/rogue-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/physical-exemplar#TOC-Bard
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/rogue-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/spellhammer#TOC-Bard
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/rogue-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/cloakfighter#TOC-Bard
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/super-genius-games/adept-godling/archetypes/rogue-genius-games---adept-godling-archetypes/weapon-champion#TOC-Bard
Stuff like that?
I assume he's maxing all of his other stats if he has 1 cha. :P

Yeah, I'm seconding Rogue Genius's Archetype Packages. Much of the time they're downgrades but in this case one of them may be a viable option.

[madtinker]

Can he just take a melee class and role-play a character who only thinks he's good at singing and story-telling? Cause that would be hilarious.

[BWR]

To reiterate: class, race and ability scores are non-negotiable. We know this is going to be hard to make work and isn't going to be terribly good no matter what but that's part of the fun. No mental ability scores above 9, and all physical scores except Constitution are below average as well.

Adapting the witch arcehtype sounds fun, epsecially since his Con is the only ability he's got that's halfway good. The Rubato looks great except that we don't use PoW. Maybe I can hack it to work without maneuvers.

[Saintheart]

Can he just take a melee class and role-play a character who only thinks he's good at singing and story-telling? Cause that would be hilarious.

Or just play one that knows he's bad at singing and storytelling but does it anyway. Then you would have a true bard troll, as well as a troll bard.

[Geddy2112]

Adapting the witch arcehtype sounds fun, especially since his Con is the only ability he's got that's halfway good.
This might be the only way to make this feasible, and since it also replaces intelligence for DC's of hexes, I suppose it could be worked so he can "perform" for rounds a day equal to 4+Con mod. I assume this is just some form of yelling or smashing something....

here is the scarred witch doctor http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc

[BWR]

This might be the only way to make this feasible, and since it also replaces intelligence for DC's of hexes, I suppose it could be worked so he can "perform" for rounds a day equal to 4+Con mod. I assume this is just some form of yelling or smashing something....

here is the scarred witch doctor http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc


I suspect the final product will be something like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qisaGTajtvk). Except Animal has butt-loads of charisma.

[ShurikVch]

If this Troll actually will be able to cast spells, then how about the Spelldancer PrC? Who said Bardic Performance can't be a dance?.. :smallwink:
BTW, many of Bardic Performances actually not depend on Cha: Dirge of Doom, Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, Inspire Greatness, Inspire Heroics, and Soothing Performance - their use (AFAIK) don't require Perform check and don't allow save; our trollish Bard just need to boost daily performance duration (which is, for him, "by default", a negative number) via Extra Performance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/extra-performance---final), Lingering Performance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/lingering-performance), or Maestro of the Society (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/maestro-of-society)