Is Miko Responsible?

[ElfLad]

This board seriously lacks Miko threads thanks to Roy going and getting himself killed. Way to steal the spotlight, Roy.

So, through convoluted logic, (which Miko anti-fans and Miko fans alike are no stranger to) Miko could be seen as responsible for Roy's death. Should she lose her paladin powers a second time?

[jindra34]

GOD NO!!! welll maybe... kinda... possibly...

[Setra]

This is not an accusation.. but just a humorous Theory... so bear with me.

If it wasn't for Miko killing Shojo, Roy would probably never have jumped on the dragon.. so therefore it is Miko's fault.

[Axl_Rose]

What do you mean lose them a second time?

She's already lost her powers. Do you mean that the moment she regains her powers they be stripped immediately?

[Setra]

What do you mean lose them a second time?

She's already lost her powers. Do you mean that the moment she regains her powers they be stripped immediately?
I think he's just being sarcastic, and funny.

[ElfLad]

What do you mean lose them a second time?

She's already lost her powers. Do you mean that the moment she regains her powers they be stripped immediately?

No, I'm saying she should have negative paladin powers. Duh.

[Threeshades]

If Miko wouldnt have killed Shojo, she would be in the battle right now and wouldnt have let Roy jump up to Xykon because she would have thought he would have plotted against AC with Xykon.

So yes, it's her fault that he is dead.

[MReav]

Oh please, if the Oracle wasn't so anal about answering the question exactly to the specifications of the asker, then Roy wouldn't have phrased the question the way he did, and the city would have been much better prepared. So it's the Oracle's fault.

[Duffren]

Curse you Miko, why did you have to kill Roy?!

[ElfLad]

:thog: Thog bad paladin.

[Assassinfox]

By the logic of the people clamoring for Belkar to instantly drop dead just because of some vague statements about his birthday cake and the twisted reasoning that claims he's the cause of Roy's death, Miko is also the cause of Roy's death and should be punished accordingly.

[Threeshades]

By the logic of the people clamoring for Belkar to instantly drop dead just because of some vague statements about his birthday cake and the twisted reasoning that claims he's the cause of Roy's death, Miko is also the cause of Roy's death and should be punished accordingly.

It's also Miko's fault that Xykon attacked in the first place. I dont think i need to explain this any further since the explanation absolutely obvious.

[Brickman]

In OOTS-verse, it seem to take a willful act of evil to lose paladinhood. You don't have to know it's evil, but you have to do it willingly. Miko happened to play into Xykon's schemes by showing him where the key to destroying the world was, not to mention working against the heroes-fated-to-save-the-universe many times, but she didn't do that knowingly or intentionally. She killed Shojo, who registered good to detect evil, intentionally.

[Assassinfox]

In OOTS-verse, it seem to take a willful act of evil to lose paladinhood. You don't have to know it's evil, but you have to do it willingly. Miko happened to play into Xykon's schemes by showing him where the key to destroying the world was, not to mention working against the heroes-fated-to-save-the-universe many times, but she didn't do that knowingly or intentionally. She killed Shojo, who registered good to detect evil, intentionally.

But Belkar is the cause of Roy's death, so following that line of logic, Miko is also the cause of Roy's death. So, Miko should fall for sending another good person to their death.

[NeonRonin]

I think rather than Miko falling, a brick should fall.

From the prison ceiling. Onto her head. And knock some sense into her skull. :smalltongue:

[jindra34]

Wait killing brain cells would be an improvement for Miko?!

[Demented]

thog fall off barstool. thog now is "thog the fallen". :thog:

[Nathander]

I think rather than Miko falling, a brick should fall.

From the prison ceiling. Onto her head. And knock some sense into her skull. :smalltongue:

That would genuinely help, unfortunately, as I wonder if meditating, as she's apparently doing now, is really doing her any good. >_>

As for whether she's really responsible.....possibly inadvertently, but there's a good deal of others who could be claimed as being partially responsible. This includes Eugene (who is responsible for the Blood Oath, as well as partially responsible for getting Roy and the OoTS brought to Azure City) and Belkar (for giving the ring to Roy).

But really, responsibility really lies with Roy. He chose to continue to fight Xykon, even when it was horrendously apparent he had no chance of defeating him. While he was given the chance to back down by Xykon and wait until he was stronger before fighting him, Roy refused and insisted on continuing their fight then and there (though, really, it's hard to blame him for that; it would be fairly insulting to accept an invitation to back down from your enemy, let alone the fact that it would basically be the same thing as giving the gate up to Xykon). Xykon was 7-8 levels higher than Roy, meaning he was either Epic level or damn close to it, and on top of that has a, what, +2 CR modifier for being a lich? Roy had no chance of winning. But I digress...

As for Miko losing her powers again, I really don't think she would. Again, while she could be considered inadverntently responsible for the death of another good person, I think that it's just too much of a stretch for her to be considered responsible enough to lose her powers again.

[Aimbot]

What do you mean lose them a second time?

She's already lost her powers. Do you mean that the moment she regains her powers they be stripped immediately?
That would be hilarious.

[Abacab]

Let's just say basically everything is Miko's fault.

[Demented]

Everything that isn't Miko's fault is Belkar's fault. But Elan gets the blame.

[EvilElitest]

Because this is such a homorus thread, i voted yes

But in regards to this


But really, responsibility really lies with Roy. He chose to continue to fight Xykon, even when it was horrendously apparent he had no chance of defeating him. While he was given the chance to back down by Xykon and wait until he was stronger before fighting him, Roy refused and insisted on continuing their fight then and there (though, really, it's hard to blame him for that; it would be fairly insulting to accept an invitation to back down from your enemy, let alone the fact that it would basically be the same thing as giving the gate up to Xykon). Xykon was 7-8 levels higher than Roy, meaning he was either Epic level or damn close to it, and on top of that has a, what, +2 CR modifier for being a lich? Roy had no chance of winning. But I digress...
Self sacerfice is not wrong, but murder is. Not that it is logically miko's fault, but don't diss Roy for taking his life to fight an overrly evil lich
from,
EE

[Innis Cabal]

You people hurt my brain

[CardinalFang]

I think we should invent the "re-fall" just for Miko, and submit it to the spoooky wizards for their approval and inclusion in future works.

[Nathander]

Because this is such a homorus thread, i voted yes

But in regards to this


Self sacerfice is not wrong, but murder is. Not that it is logically miko's fault, but don't diss Roy for taking his life to fight an overrly evil lich
from,
EE

I'm not dissing Roy. I believe he did the right thing. I'm simply saying that his death was due to his own choices, and you really can't blame anyone else for what happened. I also don't recall where murder comes into this, unless you're referring to Xykon killing Roy. I'm a gigantic Roy fan myself; I'm simply saying you can't blame anyone other than him and Xykon for his death. Xykon is the one that causes his death; Roy is the one who led to that being the cause.

[Spiky]

I think he's just being sarcastic, and funny.

No, one of those he is not.

[Duke Malagigi]

No. And for one reason only. She's already fallen! You can't lose your paladin powers twice without regaining them in between. Think people, think.

[Assassinfox]

No. And for one reason only. She's already fallen! You can't lose your paladin powers twice without regaining them in between. Think people, think.

She's gonna lose them all the way into the negative and spontaneously gain Blackguard powers! :smalltongue:

[Demented]

Not necessarily a Blackguard...

{table]
Miko|
->|
Miko, later

Detect Evil|
->|Detect Protagonists

Smite Evil|
->|Smite Logic

Lay on Hands|
->|Lay on the Punishment (Heavy)

Summon Windstriker|
->|Beat the Dead Horse

Charisma Bonus[br]to Saves|
->|Bonus to Saves[br]Against Charisma

[/table]

[Nathander]

Best. Graph. Ever.

[spectheintro]

Guys, he's kidding around. This is so obviously a joke (and a funny one, too, I might add) that it's a bit ridiculous that some people are treating it seriously.

I voted yes; I just want to see Miko get knocked out again. That was awesome.

On a serious note, I wonder how Roy's death--fighting Xykon, no less--will affect Miko? Will that finally convince her that she was wrong?

[Friv]

I think Miko is blameless. In fact, she did her best to prevent this tragedy, by doing for the man who is truly responsible for Roy's death...

Shojo.

I mean, really. Azure City is a city. Shojo could totally have bankrupted the treasury to give Roy a Cloak of Overland Flight, a Helm of Spell Resistance 35, and a +5 Holy Axiomatic Undead-Bane Greatsword that can do Bludgeoning damage at will.

Skinflint.

[Fawkes]

I mean, really. Azure City is a city. Shojo could totally have bankrupted the treasury to give Roy a Cloak of Overland Flight, a Helm of Spell Resistance 35, and a +5 Holy Axiomatic Undead-Bane Greatsword that can do Bludgeoning damage at will.

Well, he might have, if he was ALIVE.

[Closet_Skeleton]

No, I'm saying she should have negative paladin powers. Duh.

That would be awesome.

"I am an anti-paladin"

"You mean a Blackguard?"

"No, I subtract my charisma from saving throws and I have the ability to banish random horses to the celestial realm."

[jindra34]

That would be awesome.

"I am an anti-paladin"

"You mean a Blackguard?"

"No, I subtract my charisma from saving throws and I have the ability to banish random horses to the celestial realm."

Thats awesome...

[Swashbuckler]

Miko should fall even more, yes. The whole "negative paladin levels" that someone mentioned above.

... and then she should be trampled to death by a horde of rampaging marmots.

... and then her entrails devoured by slow-moving acidic leeches.

... and then Redcloak should raise her fetid, devoured corpse to serve as a lowly undead minion for several hundred years.

... and that's just the beginning! :amused:

[chibibar]

I think Miko lost her power BECAUSE of this future event ;) Many argue that killing Shojo wasn't "evil" per se.... but causing the death of Roy (being LG) now that is the reason of Miko's fall.

The twelve gods had foresee this.

[Iranon]

No, please! Falling once bleached her to a dull tan. Falling twice would probably make her an albino and when that happens it's only time before she whips out a soul-sucking sword and really makes a mess of things.

[ElfLad]

On a serious note, I wonder how Roy's death--fighting Xykon, no less--will affect Miko? Will that finally convince her that she was wrong?

"I knew it! Greenhilt's sole purpose of "assisting" was to free himself from life and become a powerful undead by Xykon's side, all while looking deceptively like a hero! That despicable evildoer shall know my blade, intimately!"

[spectheintro]

"I knew it! Greenhilt's sole purpose of "assisting" was to free himself from life and become a powerful undead by Xykon's side, all while looking deceptively like a hero! That despicable evildoer shall know my blade, intimately!"

Yeah, I wouldn't put that past her, but still...

I'm not a fan of Miko (she is the picture-perfect example of how paladins are NOT supposed to be) but I think she has plenty of potential and would like to see her start on the path of good again.

[Setra]

"I knew it! Greenhilt's sole purpose of "assisting" was to free himself from life and become a powerful undead by Xykon's side, all while looking deceptively like a hero! That despicable evildoer shall know my blade, intimately!"
I'll quote myself


:miko: That filthy honourless dog has finally met his end! He should have known that evil turns on itself!

[Jayabalard]

By the logic of the people clamoring for Belkar to instantly drop dead just because of some vague statements about his birthday cake and the twisted reasoning that claims he's the cause of Roy's death, Miko is also the cause of Roy's death and should be punished accordingly.
1. Belkar hasn't had his birthday, so he hasn't enjoyed his next birthday cake, so he's probably going to live through the battle (unless he had a birthday off camera). Anyone claiming otherwise is not using logic
2. The oracle really likes giving answers that can be stretched to cover the question without really answering the question, and Belkar's prophecy could easily be this type of answer. Belkar caused the death of Roy just like the oots cause the weakening of the fabric of space and time... Everyone in the oots except for Elan thought they were going to get convicted, and the oots only got off because Shojo cheated the system.
4. Even if Miko caused Roy's death, A. Causing the death of Roy isn't the same thing as being responsibly for the death or Roy, nor is it necessarily an evil act. B. She's: not a paladin anymore, has already lost her paladin abilities, so isn't punished other than by civil means even if she commits more evil and chaotic acts

[Kyjibo]

Its obviously Durkons Fault! if he had chosen the ring of jumping here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0130.html) then Belkar never would have been able to give it to Roy!