What'll happen to Belkar's mark of Justice now that Roy is Dead?

[Raziel3024]

Does Roy's death mean that the Mark is gone, or does Belkar have to drag his corpse to safety?

I'm sorry if making another Roy Is Dead thread is annoying.God knows we have enough of them already but threads seem to get started here with wild abandon anyway, so what the hey:smalltongue:

[Duffren]

The Mark stays, Roy or no. As long as he stays within a mile of the corpse, it would have no reason to go off. And now he doesnt have to worry about the trigger word, so he can be as annoying as he wants!

[Megalomaniac2]

This line of thought soon leads to grisliness. If Belkar doesn't get the Mark removed after the battle, he'll have to drag some portion of Roy with him wherever he goes. The question is, how small a piece of Roy can Belkar take with him to still count as being within a mile of him? Finger? Arm? Head?

Yeah, hope Belkar gets that Mark removed...

[Assassinfox]

I'm hoping that the mark wears off with Roy's death. Otherwise, Belkar's gonna have some serious trouble.

[the_tick_rules]

well the mark is still there, though i imagine the 1 mile and roys command code rules are no longer in effect, but the rest are.

[Sky_Schemer]

For a situation like this, I suppose it all depends on what kind of a stickler the DM is. Since Roy is dead, one can draw a logical conclusion that the conditions required for this trigger no longer exist. There is no "Roy" right now, just "Roy's lifeless body" and "Roy's soul somewhere else". The trigger is now meaningless.

The alternative is that the DM could require Belkar to carry Roy's lifeless body around with him forever. Or, claim that Roy is now >1 mile away and activate.

I suspect the latter kind of DM wouldn't be much fun to play with.

As to how Rich interprets things? The latter would certainly be funny, so anything goes. But, personally, I see this more as a vehicle to 1) show that he's willing to kill a main character, and 2) give us some father-son time.

[Brickman]

I'm betting the trigger with Roy no longer exists. And the command word, if it even existed, is no longer an issue. So the only thing the MoJ does now is kill Belkar if he kills people inside a town. I wouldn't even blame Hinjo right now for saying "Well, the only way the mark can hurt you anymore is if you do something that would violate the conditions on which it's being removed anyways, so I see no reason to remove it." Lawful good, not lawful stupid.

[holywhippet]

I'm guessing the Roy parts of the mark are deactivated. Belkar no longer has to be within a mile of him and Roy (being dead) cannot activate the command word for the mark. However, the no killing within city limits rule would still work.

BTW, I'm thinking that the mark would only trigger if Belkar moved a mile away from Roy, not if Roy moved a mile away from him.

[Assassinfox]

I'm betting the trigger with Roy no longer exists. And the command word, if it even existed, is no longer an issue. So the only thing the MoJ does now is kill Belkar if he kills people inside a town. I wouldn't even blame Hinjo right now for saying "Well, the only way the mark can hurt you anymore is if you do something that would violate the conditions on which it's being removed anyways, so I see no reason to remove it." Lawful good, not lawful stupid.

More like lawful neutral or lawful evil. If he refused to remove it, Belkar would be almost completely defenseless within city limits and have to live the rest of his life in the wilderness.

[hrak]

i did not no roy put the mark of justice on belkar...wasent it a paladin...?:smallconfused:

[Tredrick]

I'm betting the trigger with Roy no longer exists. And the command word, if it even existed, is no longer an issue. So the only thing the MoJ does now is kill Belkar if he kills people inside a town. I wouldn't even blame Hinjo right now for saying "Well, the only way the mark can hurt you anymore is if you do something that would violate the conditions on which it's being removed anyways, so I see no reason to remove it." Lawful good, not lawful stupid.

That might be an end to Hinjo's paladinhood. He made a deal with Belkar. Belkar defends the city, the mark gets removed. If Hinjo and Belkar both survive the battle, Hinjo will honor the deal or directly violate the Paladin code. Especially since he believes that Belkar is changed.

[Professor Tanhauser]

I'm betting the trigger with Roy no longer exists. And the command word, if it even existed, is no longer an issue. So the only thing the MoJ does now is kill Belkar if he kills people inside a town. I wouldn't even blame Hinjo right now for saying "Well, the only way the mark can hurt you anymore is if you do something that would violate the conditions on which it's being removed anyways, so I see no reason to remove it." Lawful good, not lawful stupid.
Then belkar says "wait'll I catch your lawful good ass outside a city, lawdog."

[Setra]

What if... what if...

There was a hidden stipulation in the MoJ, if Roy dies.. Belkar dies... that way Belkar can't kill Roy outside of town or something.

[Duffren]

i did not no roy put the mark of justice on belkar...wasent it a paladin...?:smallconfused:


It was, but since most of the rules hinge upon Roy being alive, it makes a certain amount of sense that its powers would be diminished after his death.

[Ruduen]

What if... what if...

There was a hidden stipulation in the MoJ, if Roy dies.. Belkar dies... that way Belkar can't kill Roy outside of town or something.

Can't see that one happening. Two reasons.

1. Mark of Justice hinders Belkar, but it's incapable of actually killing anybody.

2. Death's common in adventuring. I'd seriously doubt that anybody in the good realm would link their life to someone else's, especially not Roy.

But yes, the command word's probably out the window. Still, I'd assume that the one mile rule really is dependent on Roy's body, so it might be a bit grim until it gets removed.

[The honest illusionist]

This line of thought soon leads to grisliness. If Belkar doesn't get the Mark removed after the battle, he'll have to drag some portion of Roy with him wherever he goes. The question is, how small a piece of Roy can Belkar take with him to still count as being within a mile of him? Finger? Arm? Head?

Yeah, hope Belkar gets that Mark removed...

New hat? It's not like Belkar hasn't done that sort of thing before.

[silvadel]

I would fade the mark...

I mean the person who the bargain was made with is dead.

The custodian of the mark and person upon with several clauses are set to is also dead.

--

Just isnt enough anchor left for the spell to function.

[Assassinfox]

I would fade the mark...

I mean the person who the bargain was made with is dead.

The custodian of the mark and person upon with several clauses are set to is also dead.

--

Just isnt enough anchor left for the spell to function.

The spellcaster who actually printed the mark might still be alive, though.

[Lord Anath'Kash]

Does it matter? No dragging required as Belkar owes Hinjo a year of his life.

[Assassinfox]

Does it matter? No dragging required as Belkar owes Hinjo a year of his life.

... not if the mark fades and Hinjo meets an unfortunate accident. :smallsmile:

[Jades]

Besides, magic keeps going after the caster is dead. Otherwise, Heward is one incredibily old bard by now... (as magic items would go defunct after their creator dies)

[Rai Thunder]

... not if the mark fades and Hinjo meets an unfortunate accident. :smallsmile:

After what happened with Hinjo and saving him from the poison secretly, I don't think Belkar is going to rely on Hinjo having an accident...

[Assassinfox]

After what happened with Hinjo and saving him from the poison secretly, I don't think Belkar is going to rely on Hinjo having an accident...

I guess I was too vague. I meant something more along the lines of Hobgoblins overwhelming Hinjo, or Redcloak laying the smackdown on him.

Edit: ... which wouldn't really be an "accident." My bad.

[Rai Thunder]

If the mark doesn't fade, Belkar can't really afford for Hinjo to be killed by anyone. Think of all the chances he'll never have to kill! :(

[Finwe]

:smallcool:
More like lawful neutral or lawful evil. If he refused to remove it, Belkar would be almost completely defenseless within city limits and have to live the rest of his life in the wilderness.


Uh, he's level 12+. He could easily knock out just about anyone he's likely to meet in a city by choosing to do non-lethal damage.

[Assassinfox]

Uh, he's level 12+. He could easily knock out just about anyone he's likely to meet in a city by choosing to do non-lethal damage.

Trying to inflict non-lethal damage gives a penalty to hit unless you're using a truncheon, sap, or your fists. And using your fists just sets yourself up for a whole world of hurt if you don't have Improved Unarmed Strike.

[Ruduen]

Trying to inflict non-lethal damage gives a penalty to hit unless you're using a truncheon, sap, or your fists. And using your fists just sets yourself up for a whole world of hurt if you don't have Improved Unarmed Strike.

Or he could just grab himself a pair of merciful daggers. Of course, it's really not about self-defense. That's really never been a problem for Belkar. I think the bigger problem would be restraining himself, rather than defending himself.

But considering that not removing the mark would be against the Paladin code, I seriously doubt it'll be a problem.

[Assassinfox]

Or he could just grab himself a pair of merciful daggers. Of course, it's really not about self-defense. That's really never been a problem for Belkar. I think the bigger problem would be restraining himself, rather than defending himself.

But considering that not removing the mark would be against the Paladin code, I seriously doubt it'll be a problem.

Hinjo, being the smug jerk that he is, had no problem with leaving Belkar with the curse unless Belkar put himself in mortal danger.

[Kheal]

It is worth pointing out that, while unlikely, Roy may not be dead. Also, the Mark of Justice never wears off. It is permanent until it is either removed, or triggered. Who are we kidding anyway? Roy is gonna be resurected if he's dead anyhow.

[jindra34]

It is worth pointing out that, while unlikely, Roy may not be dead. Also, the Mark of Justice never wears off. It is permanent until it is either removed, or triggered. Who are we kidding anyway? Roy is gonna be resurected if he's dead anyhow.

ROY IS DEAD GET OVER IT

[Narthon the Bold]

The only way to be safe is for Belkar to make himself a full Roy suit.

[jindra34]

The only way to be safe is for Belkar to make himself a full Roy suit.

Until it decays...

[Lord Anath'Kash]

Until it decays...

Gentle repose is a wondrous thing

[jindra34]

Gentle repose is a wondrous thing

except Belkar aint gonna be able to cast it...

[Finwe]

Trying to inflict non-lethal damage gives a penalty to hit unless you're using a truncheon, sap, or your fists. And using your fists just sets yourself up for a whole world of hurt if you don't have Improved Unarmed Strike.



Yeah, see, Belkar's got at least +11 to hit, assume he has no strength bonus (unlikely, given that his build is purely melee). So he's got a "measly" +7/+2/-3, +7/+2 to hit when doing non-lethal damage. Given that most people within a city are level 1-4 and unarmored, he's not going to have any trouble at all dealing with would-be attackers. If has a pair of +3 daggers (easily within the price range someone if his level can afford), and we give him a decent strength score, say, 14 (not unrealistic even with the penalty), then he'll be getting +12/+7/+2, +12/+7 for his attacks. Yeah, he'll have real trouble defending himself in a bar fight. If he gets a merciful enchantment on his daggers, people who he can't knock out will be far and few between.

[Assassinfox]

Yeah, see, Belkar's got at least +11 to hit, assume he has no strength bonus (unlikely, given that his build is purely melee). So he's got a "measly" +7/+2/-3, +7/+2 to hit when doing non-lethal damage. Given that most people within a city are level 1-4 and unarmored, he's not going to have any trouble at all dealing with would-be attackers. If has a pair of +3 daggers (easily within the price range someone if his level can afford), and we give him a decent strength score, say, 14 (not unrealistic even with the penalty), then he'll be getting +12/+7/+2, +12/+7 for his attacks. Yeah, he'll have real trouble defending himself in a bar fight. If he gets a merciful enchantment on his daggers, people who he can't knock out will be far and few between.

Or, we could stop oppressing his culture and just take the curse off of him.

[Brickman]

Remind me what part of the paladin code forbids lying? Some paladins may take it to more extreme lengths than others, but they are required to uphold the law and defend those who need defending while smiting those who need smiting (and you can make it as a paladin with either of the last two). And falling is, assuming you don't have a "gotcha" DM (which, considering Miko, we don't), the result of a serious infraction of either the lawful or good parts of your alignment. If it wouldn't earn your average lawful good an alignment penalty to not remove that mark, it won't hurt Hinjo.

And remember, Belkar did murder a paladin guard and then scrawl on the wall in his blood to provoke another paladin into a duel. Murder, especially of an officer, is no light offense, even for a PC. Perhaps to Hinjo making sure Belkar doesn't do it again is more important to "good" than removing the mark is to "lawful."

[Thexare Blademoon]

ROY IS DEAD GET OVER IT

THIS IS D&D(-based) GET USED TO RESURRECTION

I'm fine with him being dead, but you seem to be completely ignorant of the assorted means to bring someone back to life, to the point of even yelling at someone that mentions it as a possibility

[Assassinfox]

THIS IS D&D(-based) GET USED TO RESURRECTION

I'm fine with him being dead, but you seem to be completely ignorant of the assorted means to bring someone back to life, to the point of even yelling at someone that mentions it as a possibility

The first step to being resurrected is DYING! He wasn't yelling at him for mentioning resurrection, he was yelling at someone for not recognizing that ROY IS CURRENTLY DEAD.

[Suraht]

If worse came to worse, Belkar could make one of his trademark hats out of Roy......

[Turcano]

The only way to be safe is for Belkar to make himself a full Roy suit.

Hey, this is The Order of the Stick, not Something*Positive.

[Tharr]

He comes back undead.