Help for a rookie DM

[JackCain]

Hi.

So, I've been running a 3.5 game for the first time and I've mostly made it through alright, but I've run into a problem.

I want an enemy agent to bluff their way into the group,

The problem is that one of my players is a Spellthief, so he could almost instantly tell that she's a caster, if she had illusion spells cast on her or if she had magic items...

I'm not sure what I could do to get around this besides fiat. And I try to avoid fiat as much as possible.

Any suggestions?

[Extra Anchovies]

Maybe have the enemy pass off their magical ability as "oh, I just know a few trips" accompanied by demonstrating a cantrip, or have them use the Magic Aura spell?

[BilltheCynic]

1) There is a 3rd level Wizard spell called Nondetection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) that prevents the subject from being divination spells such as Detect Magic

2) You could make the spellcaster a Sorcerer with the Eschew Materials feat and no overt magic items. Unless the guy is actively under an aura or is casting a spell the Spellthief shouldn't detect a thing.

3) Maybe give the guy a Handy Haversack (if you think that is too good for that level/you players a likely to kill him just to steal that, replace with a mundane knapsack). Have it full of some minor supporting spells like Endure Elements and Cure Minor Wounds. The Spellthief should detect this, and he can offer to provide a bit of support to them on the road. Of course he might have a few other things in there that he isn't telling them about...

[PaucaTerrorem]

Make the NPC a non-caster?

[JackCain]

Magic Aura, I didn't even notice that spell. That's a great starting point!

What if I have her burn off her higher level slots, so she looks like a lower level caster?

[Dexam]

What level are the PC's? If they're mid- to high-level, then it shouldn't be unusual for them to encounter NPC's with a handful of magical items or with the ability to cast spells of their own.

The Spellthief shouldn't be able to determine what level spells she can cast unless he's trying to steal them off her.

If they're the especially suspicious about characters with Illusion magic on them, you can always do a double-redundancy trick to throw them off the scent: Hat of Disguise with a Nystul's Magic Aura to hide the item, then cast Disguise Self. If the Spellthief detects the Illusion aura and questions the NPC, she explains that it's some minor magic to improve her appearance. She drops the Disguise Self spell to reveal a similar appearance with some distinctive feature - e.g. scarring, burns, birthmark, or similar - which is actually a second disguise provided by the Hat and totally different from her actual appearance.

[JackCain]

I've got something like that planned. Drow disguised as forest elf as her initial "cover".

[Crake]

What level are the PC's? If they're mid- to high-level, then it shouldn't be unusual for them to encounter NPC's with a handful of magical items or with the ability to cast spells of their own.

The Spellthief shouldn't be able to determine what level spells she can cast unless he's trying to steal them off her.

If they're the especially suspicious about characters with Illusion magic on them, you can always do a double-redundancy trick to throw them off the scent: Hat of Disguise with a Nystul's Magic Aura to hide the item, then cast Disguise Self. If the Spellthief detects the Illusion aura and questions the NPC, she explains that it's some minor magic to improve her appearance. She drops the Disguise Self spell to reveal a similar appearance with some distinctive feature - e.g. scarring, burns, birthmark, or similar - which is actually a second disguise provided by the Hat and totally different from her actual appearance.

Based on what the OP described, I'm assuming the spelltheif is at least level 9, and has the arcane sight feature, which definitely DOES let you determine what level spells people can cast at this very moment. The OP was also correct in saying that you could give that spell a false reading by blowing your higher level spell slots.

However, it is also worth noting that arcane sight is not always on for the spelltheif, it has limited uses per day, and that it has a very overt outward sign of being used, the brightly blue glowing eyes. So people could slap him upside the head and say "How dare you look at me like that!" depending on the magical level of your society.

As others have stated, if the agent is looking to "join" the group to help, it would be MORE suspicious that they lack any magical items whatsoever. Arcane sight can't identify the spells in place or the items in use, so a good bluff can pass them off as other things.

A ring of mind shielding for example, gives you immunity to alignment detection, detect thoughts and attempts to discern lies magically. It is abjuration. That is all arcane sight will say. You know what else is abjuration? A ring of protection.

As for being able to cast spells, well, that comes down to how ok that is in your campaign setting. Is casting illegal or something? If not, why shouldn't they be open about their ability to cast spells? Note that Nystul's Magic Aura has a target of objects only, so you can't use that on yourself, however you COULD use something like Misdirection and hope they fail their save. If you wanted to make sure, you could use an irresistible Misdirection, though that's a 6th level spell (assuming you as the DM are happy with using kingdoms of kalamar material too).


1) There is a 3rd level Wizard spell called Nondetection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/nondetection.htm) that prevents the subject from being divination spells such as Detect Magic

That has a non-neglidgible chance to fail, so in a situation like this, it really wouldn't be helpful. It only takes one successful detection and the ruse is up. Presumably the spell theif would be using arcane sight in combat qutie often, so eventually he'd see through it.


2) You could make the spellcaster a Sorcerer with the Eschew Materials feat and no overt magic items. Unless the guy is actively under an aura or is casting a spell the Spellthief shouldn't detect a thing.

As i mentioned earlier, is it really such a big deal that they know he's a caster?

I feel like we need to know more of the big picture before we can start helping you with this guy. There's just too many things we can't be sure about.

[JackCain]

The character is a high-level caster sent by a cult to infiltrate and mentally manipulate the party. To weaken them for a massive upcoming raid on their stronghold. The cult wants to steal some artifacts they've been collecting.

My initial idea is was based on the fact that one of the characters wants to role play as a "lech", so I'm going to have this girl appear and start manipulating him based on that. Ultimately, she'll just mind control him when the time comes, but in the meantime she'll be using mundane manipulation as to not give away the trick.

Edit: They'll obviously figure something is suspicious about her, so her second layer of cover, she'll reveal herself as a drow and say that she's on the run from the cult. An escaped slave. She's tracked down the party because they're enemies of it and she's seeking protection.

I'll probably have her stage an attack by agents of the cult. I think giant preying mantises in cloaks. They're a vermin cult.

The third layer of cover is that she's a relative of a high-ranking member of the cult.

[jiriku]

Yeah, it would be much better for her to be upfront about her casting ability. In fact, when she "discovers" there's a spellthief in the party, maybe should could even offer to share a few spells. She's not going to build trust with the party by having more layers to her cover than an onion -- she's going to build trust by acting trustworthy. She needs to be helpful and pre-emptively disclose useful information such as "hey, I have abilities that can help you stay alive."

[JackCain]

Ahaha, perfect idea. Thank you!

[Crake]

So from what I understand, she's there to weaken them so a raid on their stronghold will be easier to achieve? If that's the case, why have her infiltrate the party? Presumably they spend a significant portion of their time out adventuring, right? How much do they micro manage their stronghold, if at all? Wouldn't it be better for her to infiltrate their stronghold, and have an attack orchestrated while they're due to be away for a while? Depending on how much magical protection the stronghold has, she could potentially kill off someone important and then assume their identity, and use that position of power to gather information on patrols and guard shifts, then an attacking force knows when and where to strike. Extra points if she doubles the patrols outside the walls, and they're all picked off one by one, reducing the amount of resistance once inside the stronghold.

That's how I'd do it anyway. Why attack the powerful leaders when you can just sweep the rug out from under them and destroy their powerbase? Plus this way there's almost no chance of failure unless the players heavily micromanage their stronghold and inspect everything and everyone there regularly. Just one day they'll come home and the stronghold is in ruins.

[JackCain]

But I want to have a massive attack, it's the start of the endgame.
First the raid to steal the artifacts, then the players have to go get them. They make their way to the cults base and have the final battle against the big bad.

[Jahkin]

It surely isn't a viewpoint to be taking as a GM, but if I were her and (assuming she is already aware of the Spellthief) it sounds like the situation calls for a dead Spellthief prior to the infiltration. Seems like a plot hole worth plugging. Instead of killing the Spellthief, though, you simply need to work the problem; she can get the Spellthief infected with something good and nasty, use secondary means of (magical) conditioning the Spellthief not to be interested in her, or something similar.

[nedz]

Just have them disguise themselves as a Cleric of a relatively harmless god — or as a Healer.

[Geddy2112]

I agree with not trying too hard to hide anything. This NPC should be as upfront as possible; the players are less likely to be suspicious of somebody that is overt and direct. Knowing how to cast magic is usually not a huge deal nor is it a sign that the person has any malice or ill intent. Make sure her bluff is fairly high, and you can always use mundane over magical disguises so there is no illusion detected.

[JackCain]

Just have them disguise themselves as a Cleric of a relatively harmless god — or as a Healer.

I was thinking Ellistrae.

But I see what you guys are getting at. Hiding in plain sight, kinda. The more deceptive she acts, the more suspicious she seems. If her cover story is innocuous and obvious enough, they're unlikely to have suspicions.

[Jahkin]

Also, consider the mindset of players and you might realize that you are polishing the brass on the Titanic; the average player is a paranoid creature that is never going to trust any character that you introduce fully, expecting some eventual betrayal. This is similar to how players will become increasingly nervous the more you embellish flavor text.