Anima Mage

[Bad Wolf]

What's the earliest way to enter Anima Mage with the sorcerer class? I want to take at least two levels in binding, so I can get the Suppress Sign ability.

[Extra Anchovies]

Earliest entry is Level 3.

1: Sorcerer 1, Precocious Apprentice, any metamagic feat
2: Sorcerer 1/Binder 1
3. Sorcerer 1/Binder 2, Improved Binding
4: Sorcerer 1/Binder 2/Anima Mage 1

[Story]

Well the earliest, assuming PA early entry works, is to enter at level 2 (with Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige, Precocious Apprentice, and Extend Spell). But that results in you having no binding ability at all, so it's not very useful.

If you want to take 2 levels in Binder, then the earliest possible is level 4 (Sorcerer 1/Binder 2 with Improved Binding and Precocious Apprentice).

If you rule that PA doesn't work, then you have to wait until level 7 (Sorcerer 4/Binder 2).

[ZamielVanWeber]

Wouldn't Improved Sigil (Krau) work here as well? Locks you into illumian but I believe it is more kosher than Precocious Apprentice.

[Troacctid]

I would go with Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell, since it's a better feat overall and you need the metamagic feat for Anima Mage anyway.

[Bad Wolf]

I would go with Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell, since it's a better feat overall and you need the metamagic feat for Anima Mage anyway.

Thanks, I'll go with that + Binder 2/Sorcerer 1. Though I might want to get another level of sorcerer for double 6s when I'm ECL 14.

[Story]

Unless there's an ACF you want, there's almost no reason not to leave Sorcerer as soon as possible. It's not actually giving you anything past first level but familiar progression.

[Bad Wolf]

Just want it nice and neat, with Soul binding and Spellcasting both at 12.

[Troacctid]

Just want it nice and neat, with Soul binding and Spellcasting both at 12.

That'll happen anyway. Binder 2/Sorcerer 1/Anima Mage 10/Sorcerer 1 is 12/12 binding/casting, and at the same level as if you went Binder 2/Sorcerer 2/Anima Mage 10. It's basically strictly better.

[Eldaran]

Not to mention waiting until you finish Anima Mage will let you take another prestige class to advance your arcane spellcasting rather than wasting levels on Sorcerer.

[Bad Wolf]

Hmm, good point.

[Psyren]

Use an ACF (e.g. Metamagic Specialist) to toss the familiar, then Obtain Familiar if you really want it back. This is actually a better deal because, in addition to the useful ability you gain from the ACF, Obtain Familiar causes the familiar to scale with your caster level instead of your sorcerer level - meaning Anima Mage will progress it.

[Bad Wolf]

Use an ACF (e.g. Metamagic Specialist) to toss the familiar, then Obtain Familiar if you really want it back. This is actually a better deal because, in addition to the useful ability you gain from the ACF, Obtain Familiar causes the familiar to scale with your caster level instead of your sorcerer level - meaning Anima Mage will progress it.

I was looking for early entry advice, but thanks.

[Psyren]

I was looking for early entry advice, but thanks.

You already got that (Precocious Apprentice.) I was pointing out that your familiar is going to be pretty vestigial (no pun intended) on an anima mage build so you might as well drop it.

[Brova]

Can't a Kobold Sorcerer with Loredrake and that feat that gives +1 Sorcerer levels enter with one level of Sorcerer? Might not have enough feats though.

[Grod_The_Giant]

You could also do Sorcerer 2/Binder 1, which would be better for your casting.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Can't a Kobold Sorcerer with Loredrake and that feat that gives +1 Sorcerer levels enter with one level of Sorcerer? Might not have enough feats though.

The feat that gives +1 to Sorcerer casting requires level 6 (and ignoring Loredrake debate).

[Brova]

The feat that gives +1 to Sorcerer casting requires level 6 (and ignoring Loredrake debate).

Oh, right. I would probably (for cheesy early entry) just go Sorcerer 2/Binder 1. Suppress Sign doesn't seem all that great, especially given that you can just cast alter self or something.

[Story]

I'm not sure what the point of the signs was given that you can easily hide them. Maybe it's a flavor thing?

[Brova]

I'm not sure what the point of the signs was given that you can easily hide them. Maybe it's a flavor thing?

Yup, flavor thing. If you really cared (I don't), you would have signs be things like "you are on fire", and then certain powers would depend on showing the sign (for example, dealing fire damage to attackers). I think that gnome guy who gives DR does that.

[Psyren]

I'm not sure what the point of the signs was given that you can easily hide them. Maybe it's a flavor thing?

If you make a poor pact, hiding them is not so easy. In addition, some powers require you to show the sign to use them.

[Troacctid]

BTW, any reason you can't just hide the sign with a Disguise check instead of taking a second Binder level?

[Psyren]

BTW, any reason you can't just hide the sign with a Disguise check instead of taking a second Binder level?

Yes but the mechanics for this are really vague, and some signs (like Otiax's or Amon's) would be tough to hide this way if not impossible.

[Troacctid]

Yes but the mechanics for this are really vague, and some signs (like Otiax's or Amon's) would be tough to hide this way if not impossible.

Amon's sign is super easy to hide. It's called a hat. :smalltongue:

And if you're going to suppress Otiax's sign, I don't know why you're even binding him in the first place. None of his abilities work if his sign isn't showing.

[Story]

And if you're going to suppress Otiax's sign, I don't know why you're even binding him in the first place. None of his abilities work if his sign isn't showing.

Only the first three. Open Portal and Unlock work without his sign.

[The Vagabond]

The first thing that comes to mind is the question of why you can't enter at level two, with the Precocious Apprentice trick and a flaw as a human. A level in binder, a level in sorcerer, precarious aprentece, Improved Binding, and any metamagic feat, bam, you win. Alternatively, there's Versatile Spellcaster and Highten. Grab Murkey Eyed, you win.

[Bad Wolf]

The first thing that comes to mind is the question of why you can't enter at level two, with the Precocious Apprentice trick and a flaw as a human. A level in binder, a level in sorcerer, precarious aprentece, Improved Binding, and any metamagic feat, bam, you win. Alternatively, there's Versatile Spellcaster and Highten. Grab Murkey Eyed, you win.

Its cuz I want the Suppress Sign ability without having to waste spells on hiding it.

[Troacctid]

Its cuz I want the Suppress Sign ability without having to waste spells on hiding it.

Buy a Hat of Disguise. Problem solved forever.

[Brova]

Its cuz I want the Suppress Sign ability without having to waste spells on hiding it.

You're not necessarily wasting spells on hiding it. Having alter self or some variant of invisibility up all the time is a pretty reasonable choice, and it makes the cost of hiding your sign effectively nonexistent.

[Story]

Buy a Hat of Disguise. Problem solved forever.

Hat of Disguise won't help for many of the signs. Naberius's for example is making your voice gravelly.

[VariSami]

The first thing that comes to mind is the question of why you can't enter at level two, with the Precocious Apprentice trick and a flaw as a human. A level in binder, a level in sorcerer, precarious aprentece, Improved Binding, and any metamagic feat, bam, you win. Alternatively, there's Versatile Spellcaster and Highten. Grab Murkey Eyed, you win.

Yes, but how do you gain a feat at level 2? Because both Precocious Apprentice and Improved Binding require a level in their respective classes so both cannot be gained at level 1. Thus, the other would need to be acquired at level 2 somehow, when you now have a level in both the required classes.

Plus, flaws are never a given.

[Psyren]

Amon's sign is super easy to hide. It's called a hat. :smalltongue:

I don't know which haberdasher you shop at, but there aren't many hats that can hide ram horns almost as big as your head (and curling around behind it.)


Hat of Disguise won't help for many of the signs. Naberius's for example is making your voice gravelly.

Yeah but to be fair, is that one really going to be a sign you need to hide?

[Ger. Bessa]

First level possible at lv3 with flaws.

Illuminian (first sigil is krau, any other at level 2)
Binder 1
lv1 : Improved binding
Flaw : Improved sigil : krau
Flaw : any metamagic.

Binder1/Sorcerer1
Pick 1 or 2 lv1 spells with Improved sigil : krau.

Binder1/Sorcerer1/AnimaMage1
Lv3 : do whatever you want.

The main limitation of lv3 entry is that most feats to get the requirement of lv2 spells need you to pick sorcerer at lv1. Metamagic feats and improved sigil (krau) don't.

If you play a race with bonus feats, you can also burn the feats for Earth sense and Earth spell (and heighten as metamagic).

Binder at lv1 also has all the skills needed, whereas sorcerers do not get knowledge (planes).