Free action = roy shouldn't have died

[LordMalrog]

Since he died talking this is impossable seeing as speaking is a free action. I always have had a problem with this though. For example, in WoD (world of darkness) A train is about to hit an antagonist and he could stop and tlak for hours on end, while a train merely 2 meters from him heads toward him. Of coarse i have no conflict with roys death or the fashion of it. I'm just saying :smallsmile:

[Seraph]

whether talking is considered a free action is decided by how long they talk for, DM fiat.

[Assassinfox]

http://goblinscomic.com/d/20050731.html

Seriously, though. No DM would let you filibuster your character's death away.

[LordMalrog]

whether talking is considered a free action is decided by how long they talk for, DM fiat.
Well That's true but in the rule i think it says it's a free action but it is still up to the dm

[InuSaga]

He did more than talk, anyway. He went through his bag of tricks, did inventory on his potions, remembered the amulet, then tried and failed to break it. Those, I'm sure, are not free actions.

[Mr me 805]

Talking has already taken time in at least this case. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0186.html

I suppose that's some evidence that it could count as an action again.

[Fawkes]

He did more than talk, anyway. He went through his bag of tricks, did inventory on his potions, remembered the amulet, then tried and failed to break it. Those, I'm sure, are not free actions.

QFT, man. Qft.

[Sothicus]

I view Roy's monologue before his "Splat!" as the representation of any player running through his character sheet to find any sort of salvation right before the DM rolls damage dice of certain death. It doesn't have to be a 20d6 fall, it can be dragon breath or whatever. But as players, we all do the same thing right before the inevitable SPLAT!.

[Hinton]

I view Roy's monologue before his "Splat!" as the representation of any player running through his character sheet to find any sort of salvation right before the DM rolls damage dice of certain death. It doesn't have to be a 20d6 fall, it can be dragon breath or whatever. But as players, we all do the same thing right before the inevitable SPLAT!.

Especially when Roy is seen saying: "You're an adventurer, you can weasel your way out of this."

I can just picture a player sitting there, reading everything on the character sheet, trying to find some kind of loophole or something while the dice click ominously in the DM's hand.

[idksocrates]

A fall isn't instant - you only fall 150-300 feet a round. I forget the exact numbers, and the SRD apparantly doesn't list the actual speed. Assuming that Roy had been high enough, he could have had plenty of rounds to check his inventory and talk up a storm.

[UltimaGabe]

Actually, if you're going by the Rules As Written, falling takes no time at all. Any fall, no matter what distance, happens instantly. (This was later clarified in a FAQ, but as the RAW, falling is instant.) So, if you're going to bring rules lawyers into this, he didn't even have time for that free action.

[Sothicus]

A fall isn't instant - you only fall 150-300 feet a round. I forget the exact numbers, and the SRD apparantly doesn't list the actual speed. Assuming that Roy had been high enough, he could have had plenty of rounds to check his inventory and talk up a storm.


Actually, Skip Williams has written (here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a)

Freefall is 500 feet the first round, 1000 feet each round thereafter.

I believe other people have worked out realistic physics to get a better defined distance fallen per round. However, even that is more than the 150-300 you mention.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Talking is only a free action when it's less than a few sentences (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#speak)

[taraxia]

Well That's true but in the rule i think it says it's a free action but it is still up to the dm

I'm pretty sure the rule includes the "for a reasonable length of time" clause.

Certain things that are defined as speaking for a certain amount of time, like making a Diplomacy check, are defined as stretching beyond a free action (Diplomacy checks take a minute to make).

[mikeejimbo]

Falling is also a free action, I think.

[chibibar]

Falling is also a free action, I think.

yea... free falling maybe ;)

[Devils_Advocate]

Actually, Skip Williams has written (here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040706a)

Freefall is 500 feet the first round, 1000 feet each round thereafter.

I believe other people have worked out realistic physics to get a better defined distance fallen per round. However, even that is more than the 150-300 you mention.
Actually, the rules say that in a plane with subjective directional gravity, a character falls 150 feet in the first round and 300 feet each round thereafter. No mention is made of winged creatures falling slower or faster than other creatures. The rules also say that gravity is as strong on such a plane as it is on the Material Plane.

Of course, it's entirely reasonable to house-rule that winged creatures do fall slower than others, and to use the 300 feet per round figure for winged creatures and a higher speed for non-winged ones, on the grounds that 300 feet per round is just silly low for regular freefall. Although it is kind of amusing imagining a 15th level monk being able to run faster than he can fall. :smalltongue:

(Seriously, though, "Wingless flyers that stall still have some residual lift and fall more slowly than non-flyers"? What the hell is "residual lift" and where is it supposedly coming from? Oh, Skip, you so crazy.)


He did more than talk, anyway. He went through his bag of tricks, did inventory on his potions, remembered the amulet, then tried and failed to break it. Those, I'm sure, are not free actions.
More specifically: Roy's final words were obviously a free action taken at the end of the round in which he tried to break the amulet, rather than at the beginning of the next round.

Metagame explanation of how he could be interrupted in the middle of a free action:

Roy's Player: Huh. That's harder to break than I would have expected. Maybe if I --
DM: Um. Actually... unless it's something that you can do as a free or a swift action, you sorta hit the ground before your next turn. ...And by "sorta" I mean "definitely", I'm afraid.
Roy's Player: ...Well, craaa-aaaap. Um... Dammit. Well, never mind, then.

[kialos]

Keeping in mind though, that Roy falls at the speed of plot.

but, I've actually done something like this before in Dnd. I have an Enlightend fist Character that can cast dimention door. So I was fighting someone who was summoning alot of creatures. To avoid being Ganked. I Teleported 860ft straight up. (The limit of the spell for my caster level.) I still fell to the ground in one round. I Used Tumble to break my fall. AS per the rules you can tumble to avoid falling damage. I had max ranks in tumbe and rolled a 35 or something. So I only took d6 damage. If roy would have tumbed even as just a Dex check, he would have taken less damage, it would increased his chances, but It looks like a DM hit... nothing anybody can do :smallamused:

[Pyrian]

I don't think tumble does what you think tumble does.

[Poppatomus]

I don't think tumble does what you think tumble does.


Inconceivable

What? somebody had to say it. Don't judge me.

[RTGoodman]

I'm not sure about a roll of 35 being enough to reduce falling damage by 19d6.

Also, Tumble is a trained-only skill, and I'm not sure Roy has any ranks in it.

[jindra34]

I'm not sure about a roll of 35 being enough to reduce falling damage by 19d6.

Also, Tumble is a trained-only skill, and I'm not sure Roy has any ranks in it.

I think his DM mis-read it to "reduced a fall to 10 feet" as opposed to "reduce a fall by 10 feet" kinda an easy mistake...

[mikeejimbo]

Inconceivable

What? somebody had to say it. Don't judge me.

No, you're right, someone had to.

[RTGoodman]

I think his DM mis-read it to "reduced a fall to 10 feet" as opposed to "reduce a fall by 10 feet" kinda an easy mistake...

Oh, that makes sense. I didn't feel like looking up falling rules to see what the mistake may have been. :smallredface:

[Brickman]

That's a pretty funny mistake though--the difference between 1d6 and 19d6.

[bluish_wolf]

I thought it was five words or less for free. Or something to that effect.

[Nerd-o-rama]

No, it's a few sentences.

Also, note the Monk/Enlightened Fist character cited as an example may have been using the Monk's Slow Fall class feature to reduce the damage (possibly to nil if he was high enough level). Technically, this only works if they have a vertical surface to slow themselves with, but the example was lacking in details.

Also, Tumble is only useable trained. If I'm forgetting that this usage is specifically useable untrained (like Sleight of Hand to conceal a weapon), Roy still probably has a -5 or -6 total modifier to it due to the armor check penalty on full plate.

[UltimaGabe]

By the core rules, 10 feet is the maximum you can reduce a fall by- with a DC 15 Tumble Check. In the Oriental Adventures Campaign Setting, though, they expanded on this slightly, making it an open-ended skill check, allowing you to reduce the fall by 10 feet per 15 points of your result- so, for example, a DC 45 check would reduce the fall by 30 feet, for example.

However, if you fall 860 feet, no amount of tumbling is going to reduce the fall unless you can make a DC 1005 Tumble Check (since that's how high you'd have to get to reduce the fall by 670 feet, bringing it below 200 feet). In other words, you're taking 20d6 damage.

[silvadel]

Of course, it's entirely reasonable to house-rule that winged creatures do fall slower than others, and to use the 300 feet per round figure for winged creatures and a higher speed for non-winged ones, on the grounds that 300 feet per round is just silly low for regular freefall. Although it is kind of amusing imagining a 15th level monk being able to run faster than he can fall. :smalltongue:



Oh my -- you could have the proverbial -- person falls off the top of the building... High level monk to the rescue... Runs down 30 flights of stairs -- pant pant pant... out the building before the splat.

[SolkaTruesilver]

I would never accept it. Since a roll of a 20 is an automatic success, if you really set as possible such incredible feat (even with a DC of a thousand!!!).

Do remember the difference between technicly impossible, and flat impossible.


Climbing a flat wall with no handles when raining is technicly impossible


Climbing air is flat impossible. (or a flat wall of ice!)


Tumbling damage for a 50-feet fall is technicly impossible
Tumbling damage for a 400 feet-fall is flat impossible

[Sothicus]

Actually, the rules say that in a plane with subjective directional gravity, a character falls 150 feet in the first round and 300 feet each round thereafter. No mention is made of winged creatures falling slower or faster than other creatures. The rules also say that gravity is as strong on such a plane as it is on the Material Plane.



Actually you need to read a bit lower... that rule is for winged creatures. Non-flying creatures freefall, which is 500/1000. Unless you are quoting from somewhere else, then please provide the reference.

As for Skip's "residual lift" really what it is simulating is that a winged creature has a lot more drag than the average non-flyer and that wingless flyers must be using some sort of magic or similar concoction that would reasonably provide some sort of residual lift or drag.

[Sothicus]

I would never accept it. Since a roll of a 20 is an automatic success, if you really set as possible such incredible feat (even with a DC of a thousand!!!).

Do remember the difference between technicly impossible, and flat impossible.


Climbing a flat wall with no handles when raining is technicly impossible


Climbing air is flat impossible. (or a flat wall of ice!)


Tumbling damage for a 50-feet fall is technicly impossible
Tumbling damage for a 400 feet-fall is flat impossible

We house rule that any skill in which you roll a 20, you may automatically succeed up to a DC of 30+skill ranks+misc bonuses (in other words 10 more than you could succeed on a skill check with a 20). After that, you fail, even on a 20. I sometimes hedge a little bit and allow for partial success because it IS a 20 and you should never be punished for rolling a 20.

[kialos]

Come to think of it. I cast Fly before I hit the ground, but I was fighting someone who could cast dispel, which dispelled my fly spell... so I didn't actually fall 860ft to the ground. It was more like 50 or so... hrm... I still died in that fight too... it was PC vs PC in a solo fight inbetween sessions. Oh well Nevermind then.

[Lyinginbedmon]

I repeat, it's only a free-action to speak if it's less than a few sentences. Roy spoke about 22 sentences on his way down.

[Fawkes]

It comes down to house rule. Rich apparently ruled that it took time, and that's good enough for me.

[RTGoodman]

I don't think natural 20s on skill checks are automatic successes, just on attacks.

[Pyrian]

Since a roll of a 20 is an automatic success...

Skill checks do not have automatic successes or failures. If you only need to roll a 1 or better, you never fail (which is nice for mounted characters needing to make that DC5 check to guide with their knees!), and if you need to roll a 21 you will never ever succeed. Note that if this weren't the case, taking 20 would be an automatic success.

[BobTheDog]

Also, Tumble is only useable trained. If I'm forgetting that this usage is specifically useable untrained (like Sleight of Hand to conceal a weapon), Roy still probably has a -5 or -6 total modifier to it due to the armor check penalty on full plate.

Actually, I don't think Roy uses a full plate. Durkon is the group clanker, after all...

[Silverlocke980]

He was talking while falling through the air. I'd say it's a classic situation that most DMs would rule can't be suspended "indefinitely".

Albeit simply talking my way out of death appeals to me inordinately, for some reason. :)

[Fawkes]

Albeit simply talking my way out of death appeals to me inordinately, for some reason. :)

It's the ultimate filibuster.

[JustIgnoreMe]

Tumbling damage for a 400 feet-fall is flat impossible

Au contraire. Nicholas Alkemade fell 18,000 feet without a parachute and suffered... a sprained ankle. He fell onto pine trees and soft snow, and was probably the luckiest man alive.

[Doompuppy]

I'm guessing his DM figured he'd be sarcastically nice and said "sure, the pines and soft snow reduce your falling damage by ten... now roll your 20d6". And then he rolled twenty ones... =)

[pjackson]

Quite a few people have fallen thousands of feet without a working parachute and survived.

Al Deere during the Battle of Britain, jumped from a burning plane at 7,000 feet with a parachute that did not work, landed with a splat and was flying again in a couple of days.

He landed in a cess pit, and was rescued from drowning by a farmer who saw him fall.

[Doompuppy]

I guess sometimes you're happy to land in deep doo-doo...

[Bel_Bel]

He might have talked to end his turn, and then started another turn. When that new turn started, he died.