3.P Highest skill bonuses for Knowledge checks - No magical items/skill points

[Red Rubber Band]

Apart from having a high INT, using magical items, and putting skill points into them, what ways are there to get bonuses to your Knowledge checks?

I'm using Pathfinder rules with 3.5 allowed.



So far I have at level 11:

INT 14 for a bonus of 2

Bard 8 - Bardic Knowledge bonus 4
Loremaster 2 - Loremaster Knowledge bonus 5
Dragonfire Adept 1 - Draconic Knowledge bonus 6

One rank in each Knowledge, and them being class skills, gives another bonus 4 to all.

And have a master work item for another bonus 2.

This ends up with a total of 21 to all Knowledges at level 11 (bar the one I put ranks into to access Loremaster). This increases by 1 every 2 character levels, and another 1 for every 2 levels I take in Bard.



So. What other bonuses are there? I'd prefer the bonuses increased all Knowledges and not one or two (eg Skill Focus)

I would like this to be PO. No Pun Pun please.

[Saintheart]

Uh...take 20?

[ShurikVch]

3.X stuff:

Races:
Synad (Complete Psionic) can spend 1 pp (as a free action) to get +2 on any Knowledge check
Rilkan (Magic of Incarnum) gets +1 competence bonus on all Knowledge checks, and +1 more for every two soulmelds currently shaped

Template: Sagacious Ghost (Libris Mortis) gets +4 racial bonus on 1d4+1 Knowledge skills.

Trait: Absent Minded (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#absentMinded): +1

Class Features:
Factotum 1 (Dungeonscape) Cunning Knowledge: +(Factotum class level)
Exemplar 1 (Complete Adventurer) Skill Artistry: +4 competence bonus on any one skill with at least 13 ranks; at 4th, 7th, and 10th levels you can select one more skill
Elder Druid 9 (Dragon #286) Incredible Memory: +5 competence bonus on all Knowledge checks
Psion 1: Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals) (Sage Personality)
Binder (Tome of Magic) Dantalion vestige grant +8 bonus on Knowledge checks; Buer - +4 on Knowledge (nature); Halphax - +16 competence bonus on Knowledge (architecture and engineering) checks
Marshal 1 (Miniatures Handbook) Motivate Intelligence

Skill Trick: Collector of Stories (Complete Scoundrel)

Warlock Invocation: Otherworldly Whispers - +6 bonus on Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion), and Knowledge (the planes) checks for 24 hours

Psionic Power: Call to Mind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/calltoMind.htm) - re-roll failed Knowledge check with +4 competence bonus

Feats:
Improved Familiar (variant rule in Dragon #331): Raven can use "aid other" to help it's Master's Knowledge checks
Breadth of Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/spelltouchedFeats.htm#breadthofKnowledge): +1 on all trained
Draconic Knowledge (Dragon Magic): +(number of draconic feats you have)
Draconic Aura (Dragon Magic): Insight - +1 on Knoledge checks; Note: Dragon Lord, Dragon Shaman, and Marshal are able to get bigger bonuses than default +1
(Improved Draconic Aura (Dragonmarked) allow to get bigger bonus, depending on your Dragonmark, but require action points...)
Education (Eberron Campaign Setting): +1 on all checks with any two Knowledge skills of your choice
Obscure Lore (Complete Adventurer): +4 insight bonus on checks using your bardic knowledge
Born Under A Setting Sun (Dragon #340): +1 on any two Knowledge skills
Secrets of Dusk (Dragon #340): Take 20 on Knowledge skill check 1/day
Psymbiot (Dragon #316): if you have LoS to any psionic creature within 30', you get +2 on all skill checks
Dwarflore (Dragon #315): +1
Elflore (Dragon #315): +1
Gnomelore (Dragon #315): +1
Rhennlore (Dragon #315): +1
Trivial Knowledge (Races of Stone): roll Knowledge check twice, use better result; required Gnome or Stoneblessed 3

Spells:
Spiritual Advisor (Complete Champion): +4 insight bonus on all Knowledge checks
Ancient Knowledge (Magic of Eberron): +5 insight bonus on one check
Lore of the Gods (Complete Champion): +5 insight bonus on all Knowledge checks; untrained check end the spell (but you still get your +5 for it)
Anamensis (Dragon #338): +10 untyped bonus on one check
Memory Jar (Dragon #342): +1 competence bonus per two caster levels (maximum +5)
Divine Insight (Spell Compendium) insight bonus on one check = (5+CL, up to 15)
Primal Instinct (Dragon Magic): dragonblood creature may get a +5 competence bonus on any one kind of Knowledge check
Demoncall (Fiendish Codex I): +10 profane bonus on any one skill check involving Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes), or Knowledge (religion)
Call of the Twilight Defender (Dragon Magic): +1 competence bonus on Knowledge (nature) checks; you don't need to actually cast it, you get the bonus just by knowing the spell
Guidance of the Avatar (http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a): +20 competence bonus on any single skill check

[Red Rubber Band]

Uh...take 20?

That wouldn't be a bonus though, would it? :smalltongue:


*snip*

Many thanks for all of this!



At higher levels it seems that going Shaman (PF) is better than Bard, as you get +10 at level 16 along with the ability to take 20 whenever you want.
20 levels of Bard is needed to hit the +10 mark and you can only take 20 3 times per day at level 17. Though maybe at least 1 level of Bard is warranted for Obscure Lore and the ability to use all Knowledge checks untrained (unsure if the Shaman Lore Spirit does this).

If there are enough dips that give you a better than 2 levels for +1 to all Knowledge checks return I believe Binder could be viable as it gives you +8 with Dantalion for 10 levels - or 8 levels and 1 feat. Unfortunately it doesn't give you the Arcane spells needed for Loremaster, which would mean we need at least a +1 for 1 level return...

Oh well, I shall think on this more. Thanks for the help so far!

[Extra Anchovies]

First, an important thing: You're calculating the Loremaster bonus wrong. You don't add half your character level from their Lore ability, only half your class level. Adding two levels of loremaster is, for your build, no better than two more levels of Bard. The build in your first post would actually only have +19.

Anyways.

Catfolk Bard FCB doubles your Bardic Knowledge bonus. That brings your build up to +23 to all knowledge checks.

A Tiefling or Half-Orc Inquisitor who takes Improved Monster Lore and uses their racial FCB gets to add their Inquisitor level to knowledge checks to ID monsters. Combine with Bard VMC for +1.5*level to knowledge to ID monsters and +0.5*level to all other knowledge checks. Inquisitor [Bard] 10/DFI 1 with one rank in each knowledge, the Collector of Stories skill trick, masterwork tools, and 14 Intelligence gets +19 to all Knowledge checks and +35 to knowledge checks to ID monsters. A bit worse than Catfolk Bard for all Knowledge checks, but a lot better against monsters. With Knowledge Devotion, that's a guaranteed +5 to attack and damage against anything with a creature type.

[Hrugner]

oracle of Lore's focused trance for a +20 for [chr]times per day

[5ColouredWalker]

Relevent PF:
Noble Scion [Lore] [+1 All Trained]
Dillante [+2 all with 2+ Ranks]
Breadth of Experience. [Elf/Gnome/Dwarf only, Can't Combine with Catfolk Bard which is better for you.]
Ancestral Communion [+4-8, 8 for you, insight bonus to all knowledge rolls for duration.]
Heightened Awareness [+2 Competence bonus to all knowledge rolls for duration. Faster than consulting items]
Channel Vigor [+4 competence All knowledge rolls. Only available to you through Samrasan, and thus Catfolk is better.]


There's all the +1/2/other feats that affect a couple of skills, I deemed them non-relevant.

Again, you're calculating Loremaster wrong.

Looking at build, I'd say go Catfolk Noble Scion Dilettante with Ancestral Communion and Heightened Awareness active in addition to the Dragonfire Adept. Dip Cleric for Persistant Spell DMM+Nightsticks or use Sacred geometries [If possible] to persist Ancestral Communion and Heightened Awareness.

That should give you +34 before items and ranks beyond 2. By that point, if you fail a knowledge roll it's because the DM doesn't want you to instantly know everything, not because your modifier is too low, but if you suspect it's possible I'd grab Collector of Stories and Obscure Lore from the 3.X list which'll give you +43 to most checks, +38 when not identifying creatures.

Also, since you're a noble now, you might be able to leverage that to some use in game.

[ben-zayb]

Be a devil and nab both the Mark of Cania(FC2) feat and a recoverable Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver. Get some at will Will-negates ability (maybe binder 1? warlock 6? template? Imp's Invisibility SLA? whatever) and use it with MoPM (no autofail) on one round, and then recovers the maneuver on another. Basically +1 to damage, attack, saves, and checks, as well as -1 to AC, per 2 or 5 rounds.

So...what information do I get with +200000 to Gather Info / Knowledge (all) / etc. checks in preparation, and free-action/non-action Spot / Listen / Sense Motive / Knowledge (all) / etc. during the fight proper? Also, are epic skill checks on?

Imp Truenamer 1 / Warblade 1
Utterance: Word of Nurturing, Lesser
Maneuver: Moment of Perfect Mind, Action Before Thought, Sudden Leap, Hunter's Sense

Plan: utter Lesser Word of Nurturing for 1d6+200000 damage, Truespeak check +200000 (+rank, +Int bonus, etc.)
Defenses: no save, no attack, no SR (no turning), but I'm not sure if it autobypasses ethereal/incorporeal if that matters


:smalltongue:

[Red Rubber Band]

First, an important thing: You're calculating the Loremaster bonus wrong. You don't add half your character level from their Lore ability, only half your class level. Adding two levels of loremaster is, for your build, no better than two more levels of Bard. The build in your first post would actually only have +19.


Again, you're calculating Loremaster wrong.

I'm reading Loremaster and it says add 1/2 your level to all Knowledge skill checks. Not half class level. Going to another class and looking at other per level abilities shows that it specifies class level, leading me to believe that it is character level for Loremaster.



Thanks for the extra help! A lot of good stuff here.

[Extra Anchovies]

I asked in the Q&A thread about Loremaster, and got this:

A73: Unless it says "character level" in a class feature, it means class level. Yes, this is a raw deal for PrCs (who have fewer levels than a base class) but the upside is that the PF Loremaster's ability is universally applicable, rather than being a separate category like Bardic Knowledge was in 3.5.

[Red Rubber Band]

I asked in the Q&A thread about Loremaster, and got this:

Not personally doubting Psyren's knowledge about the game, but what you've given me effectively amounts to, "A random dude off a random site said so."

If I pointed this out to anyone who didn't frequent these boards they would look at me and say, "So?" And I couldn't blame them.

[Hiro Quester]

Bard spell Improvisation gives a pool of twice your CHA bonus as luck points you can use as a luck bonus on any skill check (or attack roll or ability check). Max of 1/2 your CHA bonus on any one check, though.