Haley after Roy's d*CENSORED*

[motbob]

I cannot see how Haley will stay in the group after Roy is killed. She will not use her resources to revive Roy when she could be using them to free her father. It seems to me that she will leave the group in the aftermath of the Azure City battle.

[jindra34]

No... ELan will talk her into staying...

[Assassinfox]

I cannot see how Haley will stay in the group after Roy is killed. She will not use her resources to revive Roy when she could be using them to free her father. It seems to me that she will leave the group in the aftermath of the Azure City battle.

If she did, it will FINALLY prove to everyone that she's CN and not CG.

[Demented]

Or, if she stays with the team and leads them to victory, it will FINALLY prove to everyone that she's CG and not CN. Or maybe not.

[Kreistor]

All the quests have been about Roy, but those quests have been profitable for Haley. She's not going to let that kind of Rabbit's Foot go, just for chump change. She needs six figures to free her father, and we're only talking four figures here.

[holywhippet]

Or, if she stays with the team and leads them to victory, it will FINALLY prove to everyone that she's CG and not CN. Or maybe not.

Chaotic neutral characters are either impulsive or insane. Haley doesn't appear to be either. She's too selfish to be good but not selfish enough to be evil and I don't think rogues can be lawful. As such, I'd guess that she's true neutral.

I suspect she's going to stick around because she still needs the funds to free her father and adventuring seems to be the best source of income for her. That assumes Roy stays dead of course, which would also depend on who gets to his body first. There were no undead around near where he landed so I'm not even certain he landed outside of the city.

[Fawkes]

Elan cares about Roy, Haley cares about Elan, Roy cares about Kevin Bacon.

[Iranon]

Haley has stated that she is 'Chaotic Good. Ish.' during the Elan/Nale confrontation.

I believe she is quite loyal to the team (particularly Elan and Vaarsuvius) and will stay as long as they don't require her to take a vow of poverty or something to that effect. Also, she might think what she is doing is of prime importance, more so than raising money for her father. Being united with your loved ones only to have the world blow up would suck.

[Alysar]

Chaotic neutral characters are either impulsive or insane. Haley doesn't appear to be either. She's too selfish to be good but not selfish enough to be evil and I don't think rogues can be lawful. As such, I'd guess that she's true neutral.


In 3.5, rogues can be any alignment.

[BisectedBrioche]

In 3.5, rogues can be any alignment.

Isn't a rogue someone who lives outside the law by their very nature though?

[Assassinfox]

Isn't a rogue someone who lives outside the law by their very nature though?

Not necessarily. The problem is that they decided to name the class "Rogue". I mean, it's definitely a lot less constricting than "Thief," but still gives the idea of "person under the law". If only they had a good word that just meant "Sneaky Guy"...

[Lizard Lord]

Isn't a rogue someone who lives outside the law by their very nature though?

Couldn't a rogue be an agent or spy working for his/her goverment? Only following orders from his/her goverment.

[Assassinfox]

Couldn't a rogue be an agent or spy working for his/her goverment? Only following orders from his/her goverment.

Yes, they could. Like I said, "rogue" is a baaaaaad name for the class.

[Closet_Skeleton]

If only they had a good word that just meant "Sneaky Guy"...

You mean like, say, Ninja?

[Khoran]

Some factors I think you may be forgetting.

Factor One: Elan thinks of Roy as a surrogate brother, and would most likely do whatever he could to bring Roy back to life. If Haley had a way to resurrect Roy that Elan knew about, how long do you think she'd be able to not use it on Roy and stay with Elan? Remember, Elan gets a happy ending; a dead Roy and no Haley don't sound like a happy ending to me.

Factor Two: Haley isn't stupid, and would most likely be able to figure out that no more Roy means no more Order. No more Order means no more (or at least a lot less) adventuring. No more adventuring means no more money from adventuring. No more money means that Haley's dad stays locked up. While the 5000gp of Diamonds might be a hefty investment at first, it will pay off for her in the long run.

Factor three: Suggestion. :P

[Fawkes]

serogate<sp?>
reserect

surrogate
resurrect

[Jefepato]

In 3.5, rogues can be any alignment.

Hell, one of my friends played a lawful neutral thief in 2e.

Haley is selfish, but I really don't think she's selfish enough to leave Roy dead (I tend to think she respects him a lot more in the wake of 1. standing up to Miko, and 2. tearing up the contracts). And that's assuming that the Order has to pay for the resurrection out-of-pocket, instead of getting Hinjo to finance them.

[shaddy_24]

She may be greedy, but she still has a concience. She won't just leave Roy and the rest of the Order. She's become too close friends with V and there is no way Elan would leave with her, not after this. There is no way she would abandon the others now.

[Xero Kunai]

Roy does look very cool when he hits the ground though. (random thought)

[Nasrudith]

I have a feeling that she will use her diamonds if no one else could supply them (i.e. Azure city) but then she would never shut about it to Roy for comedic effect.

[unstattedCommoner]

I have a feeling that she will use her diamonds if no one else could supply them (i.e. Azure city) but then she would never shut about it to Roy for comedic effect.

According to OtOoPCs, Haley will be charging her father 10% of his income in perpetuity in return for providing the 200,000gp. I'm sure Roy could pay off 5,000gp fairly quickly, even at usurous interest rates. It just requires him to take on more side quests than strictly necessary or desirable.

Besides, Roy has an MBA. He will understand the importance to adventurers of Resurrection Insurance, and will have kept his policy up to date.

[motorfirebox]

Chaotic neutral characters are either impulsive or insane. Haley doesn't appear to be either. She's too selfish to be good but not selfish enough to be evil and I don't think rogues can be lawful. As such, I'd guess that she's true neutral.
eh? 2nd ed much? in 3rd ed (and 3.5!) CN is no longer the alignment of madmen. they're into independence and free will--that doesn't make them necessarily impulsive. or insane, for that matter.

[Setra]

Just a thought but...

Do we know how powerful the people keeping her father captive are? I've read Origins but I don't quite remember...

I mean, at later levels couldn't she just storm in there with her friends and rescue him?

[Timespike]

Chaotic neutral characters are either impulsive or insane. Haley doesn't appear to be either. She's too selfish to be good but not selfish enough to be evil and I don't think rogues can be lawful.

There's no prohibition against lawful rogues. You can even have lawful good rogues, though they tend to behave somewhat differently than :haley: does.

[Querzis]

Just a thought but...

Do we know how powerful the people keeping her father captive are? I've read Origins but I don't quite remember...

I mean, at later levels couldn't she just storm in there with her friends and rescue him?

Thats what usually happen in most RPG and thats why the Giant is a much better writer then those who write those RPG. If you have a prisonner and if some people come to free him, you kill him or treaten to kill him, you dont fight the peoples who come to rescue him. I bet even Thog would know...I bet anyone else then Thog would know that and the one who kidnapped Haley father would just most likely kill him if they try to free him.

Anyway back to the topic, even if she would lose money, Haley woudnt abandon anyone in the order (except maybe Belkar) and she woudnt let AC be destroyed either. She just did good or chaotic act until now so I really dont get those who say she is CN. Greed is not an evil thing as long as the safety of other people come first.

And really, whats with people and chaos here? CN doesnt mean insane, it just mean free from everything.

[Jade_Tarem]

Just a thought but...

Do we know how powerful the people keeping her father captive are? I've read Origins but I don't quite remember...

I mean, at later levels couldn't she just storm in there with her friends and rescue him?

I'm thinking Roy, out of gratitude and after learning of Haley's situation, will assault the castle and rescue her father from the Lord of Tyrannia (who will be Nale's and Elan's father) - and this will be where Nale and the Linear Guild are finished off for good, and possibly where we learn what other connection Haley and Sabine have {The Giant has stated that there is a reason that they're opposites that has not been made clear or correctly guessed on the forums yet - most people are thinking that Haley is a tiefling or aasimar, but it's anyplot's game}. It's up for grabs as to weather Ian Starshine will still be alive, though. This will also be where Roy gets his level back for being resurrected, assuming Haley and the Order don't spring for a True Rez. It is a 20,000gp difference.

[Gaelbert]

Isn't a rogue someone who lives outside the law by their very nature though?

A rogue in 3.5 is a person who lives by their wits, I believe. So this can apply to thieves, ninjas, ambassadors, and so on.

[Pyrian]

A rogue is someone with lots of skill points and sneak attack. :P I'm currently playing a fighter-rogue "Knight" who bolts on heavy armor and uses improved feint on the battlefield, and also keeps all of his social skills maxed out. It's a pretty cool build, he's been keeping up with the fighter/barbarian types reasonably well while also being useful diplomatically.

[Maltrich]

Thats what usually happen in most RPG and thats why the Giant is a much better writer then those who write those RPG. If you have a prisonner and if some people come to free him, you kill him or treaten to kill him, you dont fight the peoples who come to rescue him. I bet even Thog would know...I bet anyone else then Thog would know that and the one who kidnapped Haley father would just most likely kill him if they try to free him.


Of course, that assumes they know you're there, or why you're there. You could always pull some stealth+invisibility+somehow-evading-warding-spells to get in undetected, or a personal favorite of my players, become employees of the evil villain and do the job from the inside (doesn't work if whoever he's got hiring his kitchen staff is doing magical background checks, though). Alternatively, they could powerlevel until they can make a Wish, rendering all obstacles obsolete.

[Icewalker]

Well actually, I have a discussion ender right here:
Haley will most certainly stay in the group. In fact, she is going to take over until Roy is brought back.

In On the Origin of PCs, Haley gets herself elected second in command:
"Hi, Roy? So, the other new party members and I got together and decided I should be the new second-in-command...Should anything happen to you, I would take over command. See ya!"

[bluish_wolf]

I want to take this thread seriously, but every time I read the title, I see "Haley's after Roy's d*CENSORED*" which makes it sound like Haley has the hots for Roy.

[Albion]

This title is horrible! It made me think about dirty things.

Oh, others as well I see :smallbiggrin:

[BisectedBrioche]

Couldn't a rogue be an agent or spy working for his/her goverment? Only following orders from his/her goverment.

No that's a spy (or possibly a scout if you go by a purely military definition).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rogue

[Setra]

Maybe Vagrant would have been a better word?

Eh

[Jayabalard]

No that's a spy (or possibly a scout if you go by a purely military definition).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rogue
you're confusing the word rogue with the class Rogue... which are not the same things at all.

[Wardog]

I want to take this thread seriously, but every time I read the title, I see "Haley's after Roy's d*CENSORED*" which makes it sound like Haley has the hots for Roy.

What the heck is it supposed to mean?

I presume that some otherwise innocuous word has fallen foul of the automatic censor, but I cannot for the life of me think what it is meant to say.

Can anyone give me a clue as to what the OP is trying to say?

[Fawkes]

Death, with spoilers marked improperly

[Closet_Skeleton]

Yeah, the autosensor replaces words with asterix rather than writing *CENSORED*.

For example

**** *** *****.

I used to replace it with stupid euphamisms but those were too annoying.

Its not as bad as the chat program in NWN that censored the word 'class' for containing class. Great way to make gamers be civil for each other. Since they had to cheat the sensors to say anything they got so used to cheating them that they were useless.

[Alysar]

Well, Haley could have the hots for Roy.