Help with flyer/diver class

[Temennigru]

I'm making a diver character and I would like a base class with full bab, good reflex saves to get me into the Aerial Avenger PrC, and some synergy with flight or charging.
Anyone know anything like that?

[Twurps]

full BAB and good Reflex saves: only thing that comes to mind is Ranger.
off the shelf ranger doesn't synergize well with flying/charging, but it's a class with many ACF's.

You haven't mentioned what race you'll be playing, so not sure this helps but:
Champions of Valor offers the Fangshield ranger ACF's specifically for non humanoids, it adds options for natural attack oriented abilities as a combat style.

Edit: just realized: Battledancer also combines Full BAB with good reflex saves. ChaMod to AC might be usefull for a flyer, and a boost in speed at lvl4 is also nice.

[Temennigru]

full BAB and good Reflex saves: only thing that comes to mind is Ranger.
off the shelf ranger doesn't synergize well with flying/charging, but it's a class with many ACF's.

You haven't mentioned what race you'll be playing, so not sure this helps but:
Champions of Valor offers the Fangshield ranger ACF's specifically for non humanoids, it adds options for natural attack oriented abilities as a combat style.

Edit: just realized: Battledancer also combines Full BAB with good reflex saves. ChaMod to AC might be usefull for a flyer, and a boost in speed at lvl4 is also nice.

I'm a silverbrow human.
Cha to AC when unarmored is meh.
I'm almost taking levels in warrior. It's like a fighter, but you get to chose your saves, skills, and your bonus feats are not restricted to fighter bonus feats.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The UA generic classes such as Warrior are only intended to be used in games that only use the generic classes and no other base classes. If the other PCs are using non-generic base classes, then you should not be allowed to use Warrior.

A Cobra-Strike Monk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) 2 with a race that can fly will qualify for Aerial Avenger.

[Temennigru]

The UA generic classes such as Warrior are only intended to be used in games that only use the generic classes and no other base classes. If the other PCs are using non-generic base classes, then you should not be allowed to use Warrior.

A Cobra-Strike Monk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) 2 with a race that can fly will qualify for Aerial Avenger.

But I will still lose BAB, and that will hurt my damage output.

[Twurps]

I think you might be 'wanting the cake, and eating it too'. The list of Full BAB, good Reflex base classes is short enough as it is.
Personally: I woudn't get to hung up on either.
Losing 1 point of BAB really wouldn't hurt that much on the long run. And I would take a few nice class features over that 1 BAB any day.
Not having a good reflex save might slow down your entry into the class, But getting a useable fly-speed before lvl6 is usually hard enough (without use of a full-caster base and thus losing BAB). So even that might not be to bad. You can dip either ranger or battledancer for just 1 level, and finish of with any other full BAB class, to still get in at lvl5.

I like the 'cobra strike' monk Bif suggested, because it qualifies you in 2 levels (exept for the flight part), and also gives evasion. (Feat) rogue can do this too.

[anti-ninja]

why do you want to go into Ariel avenger ,I don't know much about it but if its just for flight why not just take the half fey template it gives some limited spell casting plus flight ,and then just go in to ranger and snipe from the sky's not the most powerful but probably lots of fun!

[Temennigru]

why do you want to go into Ariel avenger ,I don't know much about it but if its just for flight why not just take the half fey template it gives some limited spell casting plus flight ,and then just go in to ranger and snipe from the sky's not the most powerful but probably lots of fun!

I don't plan on sniping. I plan on dive-charging. Power attack is essential for it to work, and so is flyby attack and perfect maneuverability so I don't slam into the ground.
That's why I need 7 levels in aerial avenger.
As for flight speed, I had my DM agree to have me pay to have flight and permanency cast on me until level 6, so I can qualify for aerial avenger at level 2.
Also, I want my character to have draconic flavor, so half-fey would ruin it.

UPDATE:
I found a ranger variant in unearthed arcana that removes the fighting styles progression (useless to me) and adds fast movement at level 1 (meh) and wildshape at level 5 (useless).
I guess I can go with that. If anyone has any ideas for any better classes please share them.

[Know(Nothing)]

Can't help on classes, but if you want a fun and helpful tactic, get Greater Flyby Attack and Improved Trip with a reach weapon. Swoop over a long and wide line of enemies, tripping and attacking each of them on the way, then fly out of range again. You're a perpetual area effect.

[Darrin]

I found a ranger variant in unearthed arcana that removes the fighting styles progression (useless to me) and adds fast movement at level 1 (meh) and wildshape at level 5 (useless).
I guess I can go with that. If anyone has any ideas for any better classes please share them.

Ranger comes along with a good variety of ACFs:

Arcane Hunter (Complete Mage): If you're going to hate anybody, might as well be wizards. Mage-Slayer Rangers (Blind-Fight via CotW, swap Evasion for the Spell Reflection ACF) can be lots of fun.

Champion of the Wild (Complete Champion): Trade spellcasting for bonus feats at 4th/8th/11th/14th. I usually skip this one, as I prefer the oh-so-tasty ranger spells for Wand Chambers and such, but you can pick up something like Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, or TWF/Improved TWF.

Spiritual Connection (Complete Champion): Instead of pointless "the animal attacks/goes away" checks, you can ask animals/plants for actually useful information 3/day.

Spiritual Guide (Complete Champion): Trade your animal companion for a bonus on outdoorish skills, not quite so impressive with a small number of Ranger levels, but the commune with nature 1/day can be pretty useful. I usually take the Distracting Attack ACF instead.

Distracting Attack (PHBII): Trade in your bloodsmear-waiting-to-happen to make the party rogue your BFF.

Trap Expert (Dungeonscape): Trade in Track for Trapfinding and Disable Device as a class skill. While this doesn't help your divebombing, it helps you contribute to the party outside of combat.

Urban Companion (Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)): Trade your animal companion for a slightly upgraded familiar. While combat-wise it's still a bloodsmear-waiting-to-happen, it has 75% of your HP and 100% of your skill ranks. So it can Aid Another on all your skill checks, or if it can talk turn it into a mobile weapons platform with UMD + wands.

Skilled City Dweller (Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)): Swap Ride for Tumble, a prereq for Aerial Avenger. You can tumble while flying (avoid AoOs, fly through an opponent's square).


There are other ways to get flight at lower levels. Hengeyokai Crane/Sparrow in hybrid form has Fly 20' with LA +0. Animal Devotion x2 (or Cloistered Cleric dip to pick up Animal Devotion + Travel Devotion) gets you overland flight at least 2/day. Totemist 2 can get you a flight speed (Pegasus Cloak/Dragon Mantle) plus some other stuff: Pounce (Sphinx Claws), claw attacks (Claws of the Wyrm/Girallon Arms), etc. I used Cobra Strike Monk 2/Totemist 2 for my Thumpelina (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18984751&postcount=25) build, who can do a lot of dive-bombing with piercing weapons.

[Temennigru]

Ranger comes along with a good variety of ACFs
Again, I only plan on taking 2 levels in a basic class, so none of these ACFs have any use to me as they only show up at later levels and they don't overwrite the (annoyingly) useless fighting style class feature. I feel very inclined towards the martial rogue, which can give me all the prereqs at that level.


There are other ways to get flight at lower levels. Hengeyokai Crane/Sparrow in hybrid form has Fly 20' with LA +0. Animal Devotion x2 (or Cloistered Cleric dip to pick up Animal Devotion + Travel Devotion) gets you overland flight at least 2/day. Totemist 2 can get you a flight speed (Pegasus Cloak/Dragon Mantle) plus some other stuff: Pounce (Sphinx Claws), claw attacks (Claws of the Wyrm/Girallon Arms), etc. I used Cobra Strike Monk 2/Totemist 2 for my Thumpelina (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18984751&postcount=25) build, who can do a lot of dive-bombing with piercing weapons.

I want her to be silverbrow human for flavor. A human born with dragon wings is just too cool to pass.