Where does the +2 Cha of the half-elf come from?

[Takewo]

That is something that has been bugging me since D&D 3.0, where Half-elves had a +2 on Diplomacy and Gather Information checks come from nowhere.

Half-elves come from Elves (+2 Dex) and Humans (+1 Anything/Everything). I would understand that they got +2 Dex and +1 to whichever other ability scores that they wanted. But whence comes the +2 Cha? Whence?



NOTE: If it is not clear to you by now, dearest reader, you must know that this post is made for the sake of unsubstancial discussions.

[Yagyujubei]

E x c e l l e n t A m b a s s a d o r s
Many half-elves learn at an early age to get along with
everyone, defusing hostility and finding common ground.
As a race, they have elven grace without elven aloofness and
human energy without human boorishness. They often make
excellent ambassadors and go-betweens (except between
elves and humans, since each side suspects the half-elf
of favoring the other).

read the phb

[Takewo]

I am going to change the tone of this post because I don't like being sarcastic on the Internet (people get you wrong more often than not) and in my previous post it wasn't clear that I was speaking in jest.

So I will hereby make known that this is a silly jesting topic.


Now, for whoever understands/likes silly, unsubstancial discussions in a serious tone, how could we explain that +2 Cha genetically or socially?

[Naanomi]

No more than you can explain any of the racial stat bonuses; though if you equate Charisma with Appearance it may be that half-elves have an 'exotic foreign but not too foreign' look that people of many races find attractive

[Yagyujubei]

Oh, wow. Thanks for opening a whole new world for me. Silly me, how had I not thought of reading the Player's Handbook?

Well. Now I have. And I'll tell you what. Where for half-elves it says that many half-elves learn to get along with everybody, for halflings it says that try to get along with everyone else and are loath to make sweeping generalisations. It sounds to me like they also should get that +2 Cha for the description. Or at the very least a +1. But not all of them do.


Now, for whoever understands/likes silly, unsubstancial discussions in a serious tone, how could we explain that +2 Cha genetically or socially?

youre welcome buddy. i guess if you dont want to go by the actual fluff in the books, then the only explanation could possibly be cuz WotC said so.

[ChubbyRain]

No more than you can explain any of the racial stat bonuses; though if you equate Charisma with Appearance it may be that half-elves have an 'exotic foreign but not too foreign' look that people of many races find attractive

I had something for this....

Anyways, half elves in 3e really sucked from a mechanical standpoint compared to other choices. They didn't get the feat of humans nor the ability score bonuses of other creatures.

In 4e they decided everyone gets bonuses, Oprah style (good thing for balance), and noticed that there wasn't really a race hat got a bonus directly to cha in the main phb races. They made up some crap about half elves being charismatic because they are half breeds and presto chango, you have a + Cha race.

I typically drop racial ability scores and give everyone the same bonus. This allows for everyone to make heir character as they see fit instead of using stereotypes and it goes a long way to removing overused boring character types without players being punished. Gnome with strength bonus? Dwarf with Int bonus? Half-Orc entertainer (comedian) with cha bonus? Yuuup.

[Takewo]

youre welcome buddy. i guess if you dont want to go by the actual fluff in the books, then the only explanation could possibly be cuz WotC said so.

Aye, but now I am trying to go beyond the book fluff. Let's assume that many half-elves (sidenote: I still find funny that it says "many" not "all" but it is "all" and not "many" half-elves who get the +2 Cha) learn how to get along with everybody. How do they learn that?

Socially speaking, if a half-elf was raised in a human society, he'd probably be bullied at school and have few friends and develop a rather shy, introvert personality. And he'd probably be quite insecure too. If he was raised among elves, well, the elves would probably look down on him, think of him as a foreigner. Again, we have a rather insecure person who'd probably think that he is not enough.

Unless, you decided that this past would make him a survivor. We could say that because of this past, he decided to overcome all his difficulties and grow stronger in character. And thence his +2 Cha. But then, this past would probably make a better dark sorcerer than a diplomat....


No more than you can explain any of the racial stat bonuses; though if you equate Charisma with Appearance it may be that half-elves have an 'exotic foreign but not too foreign' look that people of many races find attractive

I really like that one.

[Kryx]

I'm not a fan of half-elves as written. I treat them as half the stats from human and half from elf. My version:

Half-Elf
Same as RAW except:
Ability Score Increase. Your Dexterity score increases by 1, and one ability score of your choice, other than that granted by your subrace, increases by 1.
Skill Versatility. You gain proficiency in one skill of your choice.

Half High Elf
Ability Score Increase. Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
Elf Weapon Training. You have proficiency with one of the following: the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, or longbow.
Cantrip. You know one cantrip of your choice from the following spell list: Friends, Light, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Mending, Message, Prestidigitation, True Strike. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for it.

Half Eladrin
Ability Score Increase. Your Intelligence score increases by 1.
Elf Weapon Training. You have proficiency with one of the following: the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, or longbow.
Fey Step. You can cast the misty step spell once using this trait. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a short or long rest.

Half Wood Elf
Ability Score Increase. Your Wisdom score increases by 1.
Elf Weapon Training. You have proficiency with one of the following: the longsword, shortsword, shortbow, or longbow.
Fleet of Foot. Your base walking speed increases to 35 feet.

Half Drow
Ability Score Increase. Your Charisma score increases by 1.
Drow Magic. You know the dancing lights cantrip. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the faerie fire spell once per day. When you reach 5th level, you can also cast the darkness spell once per day. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells.
Drow Weapon Training. You have proficiency with one of the following: rapiers, shortswords, or hand crossbows.

[LordVonDerp]

Viggo Mortensen.

[TheOOB]

I think it makes sense. Elves have a reputation for being comely and beautiful, but they don't gain a bonus to charisma because of their relative aloofness and arrogance. Half-elves have the attractiveness of their elven parents, but still possess the dynamism of their human one. Further, they are outsiders all their life and have to learn to get along with groups that they are not a part of in order to survive, but unlike half-orcs most groups are predisposed to like half elves, as they inherit few of the social weaknesses of either of their parents.

So their attractive, forced into awkward social situations from a young age, and generally accepted or at least seen as harmless by other races. Charisma makes sense.

[Yagyujubei]

Aye, but now I am trying to go beyond the book fluff. Let's assume that many half-elves (sidenote: I still find funny that it says "many" not "all" but it is "all" and not "many" half-elves who get the +2 Cha) learn how to get along with everybody. How do they learn that?

Socially speaking, if a half-elf was raised in a human society, he'd probably be bullied at school and have few friends and develop a rather shy, introvert personality. And he'd probably be quite insecure too. If he was raised among elves, well, the elves would probably look down on him, think of him as a foreigner. Again, we have a rather insecure person who'd probably think that he is not enough.

Unless, you decided that this past would make him a survivor. We could say that because of this past, he decided to overcome all his difficulties and grow stronger in character. And thence his +2 Cha. But then, this past would probably make a better dark sorcerer than a diplomat....



I really like that one.

exactly, i feel like discrimination at a young age would encourage someone to build up a thick skin and become more adept at dealing with those types of situations. like you would have a cunning kinda charm after being put through the social gauntlet for years.

EDIT: OOB said it better lol

[Steampunkette]

They gain increased Charisma not from any personal trait. But simply because everyone notices when a half elf enters the room since they're on the "Gotta have sex with this race" bucket list.

[AvatarVecna]

I like to think that the Half-Elf race gains its Charisma bonus from an unstated racial ability called "Special Snowflake Syndrome".

[Georlik]

In 4e they decided everyone gets bonuses, Oprah style (good thing for balance), and noticed that there wasn't really a race hat got a bonus directly to cha in the main phb races. They made up some crap about half elves being charismatic because they are half breeds and presto chango, you have a + Cha race.

I think it goes deeper than you think.
I do not have my books on me, but as far as I recall, even in 1st edition half-elves were described as "charismatic", which was usefull, seeing that their best class was the cleric.
In 2nd edition half-elven bards were the only race-class combination (besides human) to reach lvl 20.

Basically they were always described as "captivating" and seing them with +2 Cha bonus is not that mush of a stretch, I'd say.

[Shining Wrath]

In LotR, which I hope may be viewed as iconic for D&D, the three people described as having half-elven ancestry are Elrond, Arwen, and Aragorn.

The most powerful king among the elves.
The most beautiful woman alive.
And the hero of the book (OK, actually Samwise, but the last book is not The Return of the Gardener).

I'm not a big fan of Peter Jackson's Hobbit series, but one thing he got right is Do Not Mess With Galadriel. The last High Elven queen has powers that Saruman wots not.

[-Jynx-]

In LotR, which I hope may be viewed as iconic for D&D, the three people described as having half-elven ancestry are Elrond, Arwen, and Aragorn.


Aragorn is actually just a human if I'm correct. Elrond and Arwen are both Half-elf though.

[KorvinStarmast]

About the Tolkien link:
Earendil was married to Elwing. Idril, his mom, was Noldor princess.
Elwing was the daughter of Dior who was the son of Beren and Luthien. Luthien's mom was one of the Maiar; Basically an angel/spirit that had been around since the creation.

That's some pretty awesome genetic material.

The Half Elves only wish they had the kind bloodlines that Real Half Elves(TM) possess.

D&D half-elves: buncha social climbers. They have to be outgoing and charismatic to overcome their deep seated inferiority complex over their actual bloodlines. :smallbiggrin:

[Dontdestroyme]

Necessity is the mother of invention. +2 charisma is how half elves survive without a home of their own.

Also probably they're more charming than humans but not to the alien extent that elves are.

[Shining Wrath]

Aragorn is actually just a human if I'm correct. Elrond and Arwen are both Half-elf though.

Elrond had a brother who chose to be human. Aragorn was his descendant over dozens of generations. The Dunedain were still considered to be of half-elven blood, and Aragorn was The Dunadain.

[Yakk]

In my personal (4e inspired) fiction of the half races, each is a race in and of themselves. Natural crossbreeding doesn't happen (often) between the parent races. The half-races mostly breed true, and can cross-breed (with reduced fertility) with the parent races.

Instead, the half-races where designed by the ancient Bael Turathian tiefling empire. The tiefling empire was founded by humans who magically engineered subraces from their initial human stock: the rulership tiefling caste, half-elf diplomats and personal servants, half-dwarf laborers (muls), and half-orc legionaries.

In the war with the Arkosian empire, they also engineered huge behemoth war machines and drake strike squads to counter the dragons.

The two empires completely destroyed one another, and the half-breed races are what is left.

It is the trace amounts of magically engineered blood spread throughout the "pure human" stock that allow spontaneous crossbreeding to occur.

[JAL_1138]

I'm not a big fan of Peter Jackson's Hobbit series, but one thing he got right is Do Not Mess With Galadriel. The last High Elven queen has powers that Saruman wots not.

Before he turned to evil, Saruman was one of the Maiar (lesser angels) who helped the Valar (archangels) carry out the will of Illuvatar (i.e., God) in creating the world. The Istari (wizards) were required to take mortal form while opposing Sauron (another fallen Maiar, who served the fallen Valar Morgoth) and forbidden from using their full divine powers in that effort (as a general rule, when divine power gets thrown around, either the world is scorched in fire (that happened before the elves showed up) or entire nations sink beneath the waves (that one happened twice and the Valar didn't want to go for a triple)).

Saruman was there when the world was made from nothingness, and remembered when the elves were born. If Galadriel's power was greater, it was because of the limits imposed on the Istari by the Valar when they were sent to Middle Earth, coupled with her ownership of one of the Three.

[Shining Wrath]

Before he turned to evil, Saruman was one of the Maiar (lesser angels) who helped the Valar (archangels) carry out the will of Illuvatar (i.e., God) in creating the world. The Istari (wizards) were required to take mortal form while opposing Sauron (another fallen Maiar, who served the fallen Valar Morgoth) and forbidden from using their full divine powers in that effort (as a general rule, when divine power gets thrown around, either the world is scorched in fire (that happened before the elves showed up) or entire nations sink beneath the waves (that one happened twice and the Valar didn't want to go for a triple)).

Saruman was there when the world was made from nothingness, and remembered when the elves were born. If Galadriel's power was greater, it was because of the limits imposed on the Istari by the Valar when they were sent to Middle Earth, coupled with her ownership of one of the Three.

It's also because the Children of Illuvatar did go beyond what the Powers could do; none of the Valar could have made a Silmarillion. The ability to grow and change and be other than they were first made to be was much stronger in Men than in Elves, and in Elves than in Maia.