Since when are Sylphs 9th-level Clerics?

[UltimaGabe]

I don't quite understand where everyone's getting the idea that Celia is going to show up and resurrect Roy. I mean, seriously. When did she give any indication that she was able to cast spells at ALL, let alone 5th-level or higher Cleric spells? And did she just happen to have thousands of gp's worth of diamonds in her pocket, just in case she ever needs to resurrect her boyfriend out of nowhere?

Seriously. Of all of the unfounded rumors on this board, this is one of the most ridiculous I've seen in such large quantity. I can see Celia showing up somehow and taking Roy's body to safety. But raising him? Belkar's shown more evidence of being able to cast Raise Dead than Celia has.

[Jazzvader]

Too true Gabe.

[kerberos]

I don't quite understand where everyone's getting the idea that Celia is going to show up and resurrect Roy. I mean, seriously. When did she give any indication that she was able to cast spells at ALL, let alone 5th-level or higher Cleric spells? And did she just happen to have thousands of gp's worth of diamonds in her pocket, just in case she ever needs to resurrect her boyfriend out of nowhere?

Seriously. Of all of the unfounded rumors on this board, this is one of the most ridiculous I've seen in such large quantity. I can see Celia showing up somehow and taking Roy's body to safety. But raising him? Belkar's shown more evidence of being able to cast Raise Dead than Celia has.
OMG you're right.



























Belkar is going to Resurrect Roy! :smallbiggrin:

Now where can we find and Owl's wisdom spell on steroids?

[Jawajoey]

Actually, we know for a fact that she can cast spells.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0070.html

However, that doesn't mean jack about whether or not she can cast rez. I sincerely doubt it, myself. Durkon can do it, the AC clerics can do it, Celia's talisman isn't even broken. What is there to indicate that she should be or even can resurrect Roy in the immediate future?

[RMS Oceanic]

I never thought she could cast true resurrection. I just throught she could get his body to safety, or to somebody who could cast resurrection.

[factotum]

Actually, we know for a fact that she can cast spells.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0070.html


Unless, of course, the lightning attack shown there is some sort of intrinsic ability rather than a spell--I don't know enough about Sylphs to know if that's possible or not.

[KurenaiYami]

Unless, of course, the lightning attack shown there is some sort of intrinsic ability rather than a spell--I don't know enough about Sylphs to know if that's possible or not.

Yeah, it could be a Spell-Like Ability instead of just a Spell, but she has one, chances are she has others.

No, I don't think she has any form of ressurection.

[Skeeve_Plowse]

According to the MM2, Sylphs cast spells like a 7th level sorcerer does, so that was probably Lighting Bolt she was using there.

[Fawkes]

Somewhat unrelated question: are sylphs outsiders?

They're not, are they?

[jindra34]

Somewhat unrelated question: are sylphs outsiders?

They're not, are they?

Oustiders or elementals... possibly with native subtype...

[chibibar]

Well... why not?? A GM can assign extra skills/abilities or anything really to keep the story going. That is the beauty of gaming. :)

[EloquentRune]

Celia is able to use magic to some extent we know but I agree that most likely she doesn't have a true res spell...
I know also that most of the clerics of the town are only 4th level and that makes me wonder who in the end if anyone can will resurect Roy

[Fawkes]

There are high level clerics too. One tries to resurrect Shojo.

[UltimaGabe]

Well... why not?? A GM can assign extra skills/abilities or anything really to keep the story going. That is the beauty of gaming. :)

That's quite true, and I do it myself when gaming quite often. But that's not my issue. My issue is that at least a dozen people so far (and this is just by my account- there's undoubtedly more I haven't seen) have been making claims that Celia is going to show up and Resurrect Roy. This claim is completely unfounded, and, really, not even a reasonable idea.

I'll admit I had forgotten about Celia shooting Lightning, and I didn't realize that they count as 7th-level Sorcerers. (I couldn't remember if she was actually a creature from a printed source, or just an amalgamation Rich had come up with.) Even still, my point remains just as valid.

The issue isn't that the DM has given her abilities she shouldn't have- it's that the READERS are giving her abilities she shouldn't have. Quite a big difference.

[Porthos]

Celia is able to use magic to some extent we know but I agree that most likely she doesn't have a true res spell...
I know also that most of the clerics of the town are only 4th level and that makes me wonder who in the end if anyone can will resurect Roy


There are high level clerics too. One tries to resurrect Shojo.

Why do people keep mentioning Resurrection (a 7th level spell) or True Resurrection (a 9th level spell) when Raise Dead (a 5th level spell) will do? The only reason Lord Shojo has Resurrection cast upon him was because the cleric walking into the throne room had it memorized to cast on digested mage.

In most cases, and certainly in Roy's case, Raise Dead will be sufficient. It's only if you are missing body parts, were once turned into an undead critter, a long period of time has passed, or if the body is missing altogether are the Resurrection spells necessary. [NOTE: If Roy gets made into an Undead Abomination, then, of course, Resurrection becomes quite necessary. :smallsmile:]

Besides, Resurrection spells cost a heck of a lot more than Raise Dead, so there really is no need to go down that route. :smallwink:

[Dairun Cates]

I think people just REALLY REALLY don't want Roy to lose that one level that he'll ultimately get back for major battle exp.

[Mad Scientist]

I thought the reason he was trying the booty talisman is so that Celia would somehow show up quickly enough to catch him.

[UltimaGabe]

I thought the reason he was trying the booty talisman is so that Celia would somehow show up quickly enough to catch him.

That's absolutely correct. But after that attempt failed, lots of people are still holding onto that as a means to get him out of this, regardless of how illogical it is.

[AyuVince]

Celia goes to law school. So unless they teach religious law there, enabling her to gain cleric levels, I doubt that she can raise him.

[Innis Cabal]

Durkon people...why havent we seen him? Becuase he is preping the spell knowing roy was going to die.

[Fawkes]

Why do people keep mentioning Resurrection (a 7th level spell) or True Resurrection (a 9th level spell) when Raise Dead (a 5th level spell) will do?

It's only if you are missing body parts, were once turned into an undead critter, a long period of time has passed, or if the body is missing altogether are the Resurrection spells necessary.

What's the difference between Res and True Res?

[Closet_Skeleton]

Durkon people...why havent we seen him? Becuase he is preping the spell knowing roy was going to die.

... Ressurection takes 10 minutes to cast. It's something you do at the end of battles.

[Fawkes]

... Ressurection takes 10 minutes to cast. It's something you do at the end of battles.

Is True Res instantaneous then? Are there other benefits to it?

[jindra34]

Is True Res instantaneous then? Are there other benefits to it?

No true does not cost the rezd a level...

[Khoran]

... Ressurection takes 10 minutes to cast. It's something you do at the end of battles.

Also Resurrection still bestows a negative level, True Resurrection does not. That's the only real difference between the two as for it's effect on Roy, since his body still exists. Infact, Raise dead will work just as well as either Resurrection unless one of two things happen. The first being that parts of Roys body are destroyed. The second would be if Roy was turned undead, at which they'd have to kill Zombie Roy, get the body and then use Resurrection/True Res to return him to life.

[chibibar]

If his brain is mush, can raise dead still work?

[Porthos]

What's the difference between Res and True Res?

Other people have answered, but here's a nice summary for the three spells:

Raise Dead: 5th Level Spell, costs 5000 gp to cast, takes 1 minute to cast, subject loses a level, cannot have been undead, body must be whole, must be cast within caster level # of days of dying, only #HD in HP, 50% chance to lose any memorized spell.

Resurrection: 7th Level Spell, costs 10000 gp to cast, takes 10 minutes to cast, subject loses a level, can have been undead when killed, must have piece of body (even an earlobe or a piece of hair that was attached at the time of death will do), must be within caster level # of decades of dying, has full HP, no loss of spells.

True Resurrection: 9th Level Spell, costs 25000 gp to cast, takes 10 minutes to cast, subject does not lose a level, can have been undead when killed, do not need any of the body, must be withing caster level # of decades of dying. has full HP, no loss of spells.

The only real differences between Ressurrection and True Ressurection is the fact that you don't need a single piece of the body and that it does not result in level loss for the dead guy. :smallsmile:

There are some other minor notes (like dying by a "death effect" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#deathAttacks)), but those really aren't relevant here.


If his brain is mush, can raise dead still work?

Yes. :) It will heal injuries, but not replace body parts. So if your head was crushed, but attached you're OK. But if it was severed, you're not OK. Some DM's might be lenient enough to allow severed body parts to be healed if they were attached back to the body in some way (though it'd leave a hell of a scar :smallwink: ), but that is entirely up to the discression of the DM.

Really, once you get into beheadings, it's time to fire up the Resurrection spell. :smalltongue:

[Setra]

I'm still hopin for Reincarnation.

Dwarven Roy!

[Demented]

In true "consumer comparison" fashion....

{table=head]Spell|
Raise Dead|
Resurrection|
True Resurrection|
Reincarnation

Level|
Cleric 5|
Cleric 7|
Cleric 9|
Druid 4

Cost|5,000gp Diamond|10,000gp Diamond+ Holy Water|25,000gp Diamond+ Holy Water|1,000gp Unguents/Oils

Cast Time|
1 Minute|
10 Minutes|
10 Minutes|
Needs 1 Hour Prep

Lose Hit Die|
[B]Yes|
[B]Yes|
No|
Yes

Lose Spells|
Yes|
No|
No|
No

Body Needed|
Mostly Whole|
Part of Body|
None|
Part of Body

Soul Needed|
Free/Willing|
Free/Willing|
Free/Willing|
Free/Willing

Status After Raised|
Minimum|
Good|
Good|
Same Mind, New Body

Can Raise If...||||

Death Attacked|
No|
Yes|
Yes|
No

Died by Age|
No|
No|
No|
No

Has been Undead|
No|
Yes|
Yes|
No

Is Undead|
No|
No|
No|
No

Is Elemental|
No|
No|
Yes|
No

Is Outsider|
No|
No|
Yes|
No

Is Construct|
No|
No|
No|
No

Dead for No More Than...|
1 day/CL|
10 years/CL|
10 years/CL|
1 Week[/table]

CL = Caster Level

[jindra34]

In true "consumer comparison" fashion....

{table=head]Spell|
Raise Dead|
Resurrection|
True Resurrection|
Reincarnation

Level|
Cleric 5|
Cleric 7|
Cleric 9|
Druid 4

Cost|5,000gp Diamond|10,000gp Diamond<br>+ Holy Water|25,000gp Diamond<br>+ Holy Water|1,000gp Unguents/Oils

Cast Time|
1 Minute|
10 Minutes|
10 Minutes|
Needs 1 Hour Prep

Lose Hit Die|
Yes|
Yes|
No|
Yes

Lose Spells|
Yes|
No|
No|
No

Body Needed|
Mostly Whole|
Part of Body|
None|
Part of Body

Soul Needed|
Free/Willing|
Free/Willing|
Free/Willing|
Free/Willing

Status After Raised|
Minimum|
Good|
Good|
Same Mind, New Body

Can Raise If...||||

Death Attacked|
No|
Yes|
Yes|
No

Died by Age|
No|
No|
No|
No

Has been Undead|
No|
Yes|
Yes|
No

Is Undead|
No|
No|
No|
No

Is Elemental|
No|
No|
Yes|
No

Is Outsider|
No|
No|
Yes|
No

Is Construct|
No|
No|
No|
No

Dead for No More Than...|
1 day/CL|
10 years/CL|
10 years/CL|
1 Week[/table]

CL = Caster Level

I would go with the Druid spell cheap and lowest level...

[Spiky]

I'm just trying to figure out why people think a lawyer won't have any cash.
???

[chibibar]

well.. remember this is Slylia's first case :)

[Demented]

Aside from the fact that they have no druid, there's only a 14% chance he'll come back as human.

:roy: Now that is awkward.

And a 4% chance each that he'll become a Goblin, Kobold, or Orc. And that's just the tip of the iceberg....

:roy: Y'know what? Stat bonuses or not, if I have to reincarnate as a bugbear, you can consider my soul unwilling.

[Yakk]

And that ^jindra34's post^ is what you get for not reading the fine print. :)

[cheesecake]

haha i'd like to see the reincarnation used! Zomg, imagine Roy coming back as a HALFLING! That would own all.

[jindra34]

Aside from the fact that they have no druid, there's only a 14% chance he'll come back as human.

:roy: Now that is awkward.

And a 4% chance each that he'll become a Goblin, Kobold, or Orc. And that's just the tip of the iceberg....

:roy: Y'know what? Stat bonuses or not, if I have to reincarnate as a bugbear, you can consider my soul unwilling.

That's the exact reason why i said re-incarntaion... too many comedic possibilities...

[the_tick_rules]

well Azure city owes him bigtime, they'll have something for Roy.

[Nahmer]

Oddly enough, reincarnate is one of the few easy ways in DnD to reverse old age - you're reincarnated into a young adult body. Of course, you'll lose a level, but now you'll have a lifetime to get it back. Creative adventurers can always find ways to get their race changed back.

[mlund]

Man, if Roy reincarnated as a Bugbear it would be as close to not losing a level as he could possibly come without True Resurrection.

Sure, you lose a level. You also gain +4 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON, Darkvision 60', Scent, and +3 Natural Armor, and a +4 Racial Bonus to Move silently. His Effective Character Level remains exactly as it was before he died.

That's not half bad at all, assuming a well-groomed and charismatic Bugbear can still date a Sylph.

- Marty Lund

[USAgreco66kg]

Druid spell is cheaper and lower level.

Only problem is.. Roy doesn't come back as Roy.

Roy gets all of his memories, etc.. but could return in say.. Bugbear packaging.

[jindra34]

Druid spell is cheaper and lower level.

Only problem is.. Roy doesn't come back as Roy.

Roy gets all of his memories, etc.. but could return in say.. Bugbear packaging.
WHich would be very funny...

[USAgreco66kg]

My girlfriends horrid internet connection died out.. causing me to double post *bleh*

Yep, reincarnation could end up as a funny spell, but a bit obnoxious to deal with.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Oustiders or elementals... possibly with native subtype...

A sylph is Outsider (Air).

[Mewtarthio]

There's also a 1% chance of being Reincarnated as "Other"...

...and a 4% chance of becoming a kobold...

[jindra34]

There's also a 1% chance of being Reincarnated as "Other"...

...and a 4% chance of becoming a kobold...

Other is generally good as all the bad races are in the table...

[Mewtarthio]

Other is generally good as all the bad races are in the table...

He could end up as a Merfolk (goodbye, legs, hello, freakish writhing motion) or a Locathah (which is just plain freaky-looking). And this assumes that "Other" means "Other Humanoid."

[Callista]

My DM even has us flip a coin for gender!

[Da Luniz]

..your gonna end up with a Roy-squirrel

[Ultimatum479]

Dunno why you guys are so worried about the level loss thing. It's apparent that levelling-up in OotS isn't necessarily based on the exp you'd get from normal mechanics; the DM here seems pretty lenient with giving exp for plot advancement. How else did Elan magically level up when Captain Scoundrél trained him to be a Dashing Swordsman?

[UltimaGabe]

Some DM's might be lenient enough to allow severed body parts to be healed if they were attached back to the body in some way (though it'd leave a hell of a scar :smallwink: ), but that is entirely up to the discression of the DM.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't that specifically called out in the spell description as an option?

[Shhalahr Windrider]

If I'm not mistaken, isn't that specifically called out in the spell description as an option?
Depends whether or not you consider reattaching a severed, but otherwise present and adjacent body part as part of "closing a mortal wound".

It's actually pretty silent on what happens when one tries to cast raise dead on a jigsaw puzzle of a body.

Personally, I consider reattaching severed limbs and such to be the same principle as closing a mortal wound, so I'd intereperet in that favorable condition.

[Geekus Maximus]

I think Roy could deal with any reincarnation form, as long as he retained the Trouser Titan; and was more or less humanoid. Sadly the only druid yet in the story was evil, and I doubt one would just pop up just to handle the spell. But as long as we're entertaining the thought I personally love all the kobolds that have appeared in the strip, from Yikyik to the Oracle, so that's my reincarnation vote. Far better than a badger or a groundhog, i say!

I'm guessing that his restless spirit will linger on as a ghost for a little while until the proper number of diamonds can be found. It would be funny if ghost-Roy could manage to possess someone and use their body to still help with the battle. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

[AyuVince]

Hey, nice table you made there. I'm gonna use it in my campaign if you don't mind (then again, there's zero to no combat in my campaign, so the PCs don't die that often).

Why is everyone so keen on using Reincarnation to bring Roy back? First of all, there is no druid in sight (and getting Leeky from somewhere in the wilderness around Cliffport to a battlefield in Azure City would be quite a stretch, not to mention he wouldn't want to do it). Secondly, Roy could be turned into a bear or whatever, and that would be silly (Order of the Stick: Bear, Haley, Durkon, V, Elan, Belkar).

[jindra34]

Hey, nice table you made there. I'm gonna use it in my campaign if you don't mind (then again, there's zero to no combat in my campaign, so the PCs don't die that often).

Why is everyone so keen on using Reincarnation to bring Roy back? First of all, there is no druid in sight (and getting Leeky from somewhere in the wilderness around Cliffport to a battlefield in Azure City would be quite a stretch, not to mention he wouldn't want to do it). Secondly, Roy could be turned into a bear or whatever, and that would be silly (Order of the Stick: Bear, Haley, Durkon, V, Elan, Belkar).

True and no Roy would at least stay humanoid though a change of look into say... a kobold would be hilarious...

[Moral Wiz]

Err, question.

The giant said in No cure to the paladin blues that "one of the characters will have somthing happen to them that will permenantly change the way they're drawn."

Now, it's possible he ment Elan, but that is not yet confermed so if Roy does come back to life, i'd give odds on on it being Reincarnation.

(How? This is a battlefield. Anyone can die . Including all the clerics. Failing that, mabey the Hobs'll raid the cities suply of diamond dust.)

[jindra34]

Err, question.

The giant said in No cure to the paladin blues that "one of the characters will have somthing happen to them that will permenantly change the way they're drawn."

Now, it's possible he ment Elan, but that is not yet confermed so if Roy does come back to life, i'd give odds on on it being Reincarnation.

(How? This is a battlefield. Anyone can die . Including all the clerics. Failing that, mabey the Hobs'll raid the cities suply of diamond dust.)

Also Reincarnation can be reversed to restore you to your original form...

[anyone]

There is also another way from raise dead, resurection, true resurection and reincarnate to bring the dead back to life:

Clone
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One clone
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell makes an inert duplicate of a creature. If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone, creating a replacement (provided that the soul is free and willing to return). The original’s physical remains, should they still exist, become inert and cannot thereafter be restored to life. If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.

To create the duplicate, you must have a piece of flesh (not hair, nails, scales, or the like) with a volume of at least 1 cubic inch that was taken from the original creature’s living body. The piece of flesh need not be fresh, but it must be kept from rotting. Once the spell is cast, the duplicate must be grown in a laboratory for 2d4 months.

When the clone is completed, the original’s soul enters it immediately, if that creature is already dead. The clone is physically identical with the original and possesses the same personality and memories as the original. In other respects, treat the clone as if it were the original character raised from the dead, including the loss of one level or 2 points of Constitution (if the original was a 1st-level character). If this Constitution adjustment would give the clone a Constitution score of 0, the spell fails. If the original creature has lost levels since the flesh sample was taken and died at a lower level than the clone would otherwise be, the clone is one level below the level at which the original died.

The spell duplicates only the original’s body and mind, not its equipment.

A duplicate can be grown while the original still lives, or when the original soul is unavailable, but the resulting body is merely a soulless bit of inert flesh, which rots if not preserved.

Material Component
The piece of flesh and various laboratory supplies (cost 1,000 gp).

Focus
Special laboratory equipment (cost 500 gp).

[Callista]

Oh, yeah. Forgot that one.

It does take a while, though. 2d4 months is a long time to wait for a new body if you're already dead. It's more of a contingency thing... put a permanent gentle repose on your clone, and when you die, your soul blips over to the cloned body.

This is why wizards are so darn hard to kill... that, and lichdom, and any number of little tricky things you can do with magic to keep you coming back indefinitely.

[Generic PC]

I would have to say that getting Belkar to chase around a Kobold version of roy would be great... then Durkon and Haley would restrain him while Roy began yelling in Draconic " WHERE IS MY TROUSER TITAN" which only V, who as a wizard should speak Draconic, understands... priceless

[Mummy king]

I want Roy to be reincarnated as a gnoll... or a troglodyte, so Belkar can make more stinky jokes.

[Wolfie_1066]

oh ohhhh wouldent it be fun if he reincarnated as a dragon? or even a Sylph (wow now can be even CLOSER to Celia

[jindra34]

oh ohhhh wouldent it be fun if he reincarnated as a dragon? or even a sylph (wow now can be even CLOSER to sylvia

who's sylvia?

[Wolfie_1066]

GAH! sorry im an idiot *hits head on wall and changes post to right name*

[Milandros]

Depends whether or not you consider reattaching a severed, but otherwise present and adjacent body part as part of "closing a mortal wound".

It's actually pretty silent on what happens when one tries to cast raise dead on a jigsaw puzzle of a body.

Personally, I consider reattaching severed limbs and such to be the same principle as closing a mortal wound, so I'd intereperet in that favorable condition.

Yes, Duct Tape is a wonderful thing....

[chibibar]

Yes, Duct Tape is a wonderful thing....

yea.. you can use on fighter plane (not sure of now-a-days) you can use on people in magical world.

[BurntOfferings]

There is also another way from raise dead, resurection, true resurection and reincarnate to bring the dead back to life:

Clone
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: One clone
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell makes an inert duplicate of a creature. If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone, creating a replacement (provided that the soul is free and willing to return). The original’s physical remains, should they still exist, become inert and cannot thereafter be restored to life. If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.

Hey, good catch. We wouldn't want to leave the arcanists with no way to bring themselves back, now would we? Unfortunately, this isn't going to be very useful to Roy.


To create the duplicate, you must have a piece of flesh (not hair, nails, scales, or the like) with a volume of at least 1 cubic inch that was taken from the original creature’s living body.


At this point it's kinda hard to get the material component, if you know what I mean. :smallwink:

[Deuce]

Hey, good catch. We wouldn't want to leave the arcanists with no way to bring themselves back, now would we? Unfortunately, this isn't going to be very useful to Roy.




At this point it's kinda hard to get the material component, if you know what I mean. :smallwink:

Unless he's been hording his toes, not just his toe-nail clippings. :smalleek:

Maybe a finger was blown off by the Meteor Swarm?

nah, no Clone, too high level for V anyway. What about (Limited)Wish?

[Hyrael]

Slyphs are Outsiders with the Air subtype. So, though she isnt technicaly an elemental, she broadly falls under the Elemental Creature category. It also means she doesnt have a real biology or metabolism, doesnt need to eat, sleep, but still needs to breathe, and cant be brought back except by true ressurection.

Its strange, but I've always been a bit distrubed by the specifics of outsider bodily functions. they just strike me as being very...fake...creatures. like the creatures from Everworld...not very properly thought out or developed. Makes my Summoner character far more comfortable about whiping them up to die painfully for him, though.

[NemFX]

One little thing that seems to have been forgotten, which may be the reason as to why they haven't used Raise Dead, and are choosing Ressurection:

Haley shot Roy in the boy parts when she was retrieving him after the Monster In the Dark did the earthquake/fracture thing.


Also, maybe Durkon just doesn't have the spell.

[MCerberus]

Well Durkon has the spell. He gets all spells and is just limited to a daily selection because he's a Cleric. The time limit has expired for Reincarnate and Raise Dead. This means Resurrect territory, where body condition means nothing.

[Studoku]

If this thread had been dead for 8 months, does that mean it needed ressurect too?

[TigerHunter]

If this thread had been dead for 8 months, does that mean it needed ressurect too?
Already reported as thread necromancy.