Most ridiculous templated monsters by fluff?

[Story]

What are the most ridiculous monsters you can create in 3.5 by fluff? There's the infamous Half Dragon Gelatinous Cube, but I'm sure there are lots of other choices.

Swarms and Mobs seem to be a fertile choice (Half Dragon Swarm of Centipedes, anyone?) and you can stick Multiheaded on things where it doesn't make much sense (Multiheaded Beholder for example), but I'm not sure what else there is.

[Vhaidara]

Well, there's no limit to how many Half Dragons you can stick on something. Hell, technically, you can apply the same one twice.

[Scheming Wizard]

In Draconomicon there is a black dragon who sired some half dragon shambling mounds.

[Thurbane]

Gravetouched Ghoul Will-o-wisp makes me chuckle.

Small invisible, squidgy ball with teeth and claws.

[IZ42]

Half-Giant Half-Ogre Half-Dragon Arctic Water Orc, would be one.

There's one Trick that involves warforged and some sort of plant swarm.

[Necroticplague]

Half-Giant Half-Ogre Half-Dragon Arctic Water Orc, would be one.

There's one Trick that involves warforged and some sort of plant swarm.

Sybiotic Dragonborn Warforged (Guest is a Dread Blossom Swarm), is probably what you're thinking of.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Any were-swarm. You transform into a pile of creatures... while maintaining humanoid shape.

[Psyren]

Vampires. No really. They have perhaps the weirdest and most arbitrary weaknesses of any creature in the game due to being a mishmash of centuries of odd folklore and disjointed tales. Can't cross running water, avoids garlic (how many other spices are priced in the game as a result?), recoils from mirrors, can't enter a domicile without being invited in, and a wooden stake keeps them from healing until it's removed etc.

[Story]

Sybiotic Dragonborn Warforged (Guest is a Dread Blossom Swarm), is probably what you're thinking of.

You could also do it with Incarnate Construct, but Dragonborn loses less stuff. Dragonborn has the disadvantage of inconsistent text about whether you change type though.

[The Insanity]

Half-elves.

[Uncle Pine]

Vampires. No really. They have perhaps the weirdest and most arbitrary weaknesses of any creature in the game due to being a mishmash of centuries of odd folklore and disjointed tales. Can't cross running water, avoids garlic (how many other spices are priced in the game as a result?), recoils from mirrors, can't enter a domicile without being invited in, and a wooden stake keeps them from healing until it's removed etc.
Don't forget the bit about severing their head and filling it with holy bread!

By the way, everything with at least 3 halves in it is pretty weird. As is a symbiotic guardian, anarchic, half-farspawn, half-amethyst dragon, axiomiatic, entropic, half-fey, winter unseelie fey, half-battle dragon, celestial, phrenic, half-celestial, pseudonatural (non-epic), half-black dragon, spellwarp, 43 more times half-a dragon (blue, brass, bronze, brown, chaos, copper, crystal, deep, ectoplasmic, emerald, ethereal, fang, force, gold, green, howling, incarnum, li lung, lung wang, mercury, mist, obsidian, oceanus, orange sodium, pan lung, prismatic, purple energy, pyroclastic, radiant, rattelyr, rust, sand, sapphire, shadow, silver, song, steel, styx, tarterian, topaz, tun mi lung, and white yellow salt), pseudonatural (epic), half-red dragon, 12-headed Laernan, woodling, half-troll, dark, shadow, paragon, greenbound, Lolth-touched, voidmind elephant / kobold. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18548505&postcount=126)

[Necroticplague]

Don't forget the bit about severing their head and filling it with holy bread!

By the way, everything with at least 3 halves in it is pretty weird. As is a symbiotic guardian, anarchic, half-farspawn, half-amethyst dragon, axiomiatic, entropic, half-fey, winter unseelie fey, half-battle dragon, celestial, phrenic, half-celestial, pseudonatural (non-epic), half-black dragon, spellwarp, 43 more times half-a dragon (blue, brass, bronze, brown, chaos, copper, crystal, deep, ectoplasmic, emerald, ethereal, fang, force, gold, green, howling, incarnum, li lung, lung wang, mercury, mist, obsidian, oceanus, orange sodium, pan lung, prismatic, purple energy, pyroclastic, radiant, rattelyr, rust, sand, sapphire, shadow, silver, song, steel, styx, tarterian, topaz, tun mi lung, and white yellow salt), pseudonatural (epic), half-red dragon, 12-headed Laernan, woodling, half-troll, dark, shadow, paragon, greenbound, Lolth-touched, voidmind elephant / kobold. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18548505&postcount=126)

Just to be clear; the Kobold is the Guest attached to a templated elephant of death, correct? That seems like it actually weakens the creature, as the elephant has excellent mental stats from Paragon and half-dragon alone.

[Uncle Pine]

Just to be clear; the Kobold is the Guest attached to a templated elephant of death, correct? That seems like it actually weakens the creature, as the elephant has excellent mental stats from Paragon and half-dragon alone.

No, the kobold is the host. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: See the link on the dot.

[Necroticplague]

No, the kobold is the host. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: See the link on the dot.

Ah, got it, abusing Epic Dragon rules for Colossal kobolds.

[Shoat]

What are the most ridiculous monsters you can create in 3.5 by fluff? There's the infamous Half Dragon Gelatinous Cube, but I'm sure there are lots of other choices.

Swarms and Mobs seem to be a fertile choice (Half Dragon Swarm of Centipedes, anyone?) and you can stick Multiheaded on things where it doesn't make much sense (Multiheaded Beholder for example), but I'm not sure what else there is.

Multiheaded Beholder (basically a Weezing - multiple heads stuck together) makes more sense than any of your other examples (though I guess they're supposed to be stupid :D ).

[ShurikVch]

Half-Ogre (template)/Half-Ogre (race)

http://www.ookoodook.com/store/media/comics/OOTS/OOTSSnipsSnailDragonTales2.jpg


Gravetouched Ghoul Will-o-wisp makes me chuckle.

Small invisible, squidgy ball with teeth and claws.AFAIK, if creature don't have any limbs, it don't get Claw attacks (text used Purple Worm as example)

By the way, everything with at least 3 halves in it is pretty weird.[/URL]Gilgamesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh): "Two-Thirds God, One-Third Human"

No, the kobold is the host. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: See the link on the dot.1) Dragons are unfit for Symbiotic template
2) What's with his size?

[IZ42]

Sybiotic Dragonborn Warforged (Guest is a Dread Blossom Swarm), is probably what you're thinking of.

That's the bunny!

1) Dragons are unfit for Symbiotic template
2) What's with his size?

He's a colossal Aberration, so he qualifies.

[ShurikVch]

He's a colossal Aberration, so he qualifies.1)
"Symbiotic" is an acquired template that can be added to any two living creatures of the following types: animal, humanoid, plant, or vermin.
2) Kobolds are Small; why this one is Colossal?

[IZ42]

1)
2) Kobolds are Small; why this one is Colossal?

1. He also applied it first, meaning that he was a Humanoid when he gained the template, so that's probably why. I'm not very good with 3.5

2. He's probably using Dragonwrought Kobold shenanigans.

[Uncle Pine]

Gilgamesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh): "Two-Thirds God, One-Third Human"
I can go with that, but two-halves god, one-half human would be quite silly.


He's a colossal Aberration, so he qualifies.
No, SurikVch is right: Dragons aren't eligible for Symbiotic, even Colossal ones. Somehow, I didn't notice that at the time. I know for sure that the build can be salvaged as an NPC build applying Yellow Musk Zombie before Symbiotic, but I'd have to dig a bit to see if there is any acquired template (or combination of acquired templates) that can turn a Dragon into an Animal, Fey, Giant, Humanoid, Monstrous humanoid, or Vermin so that I can apply Greenbound to it to make the build viable for PCs.

EDIT:
1. He also applied it first, meaning that he was a Humanoid when he gained the template, so that's probably why. I'm not very good with 3.5
I can't apply Symbiotic first because Dragonwrought is required to become Colossal, and I can't apply Dragonwrought first because the Humanoid type is required for Symbiotic. The only way is to take Dragonwrought first to become Colossal and then use other acquired templates to qualify for Symbiotic.

EDIT_2: Or sticking to a smaller guest creature and abuse the Symbiotic template anyway.

[SimonMoon6]

I think any "half something" template applied to a halfling sound silly.

"Hi, I'm a half-dragon halfling."

"What's a ling?"

"No, I mean, half of me is a dragon and the other half is a halfling."

"So, you're a half dragon and a quarter ling?"

"No, I... uh... fine. Yes, I'm a quarter ling."

"What's your fourth fourth?"

"Huh?"

"Half of you is a dragon, one fourth of you is a ling (whatever that is, and we should sort that out later); that only adds up to three fourths, so what's the fourth fourth?"

"Oh... eff off."

"An effoff? I've never heard of those. Powerful are they?"

[ShurikVch]

I know for sure that the build can be salvaged as an NPC build applying Yellow Musk Zombie before Symbiotic, but I'd have to dig a bit to see if there is any acquired template (or combination of acquired templates) that can turn a Dragon into an Animal, Fey, Giant, Humanoid, Monstrous humanoid, or Vermin so that I can apply Greenbound to it to make the build viable for PCs.Fey: Half-Fey, Unseelie Fey, or Wendigo
Giant: Half-Troll


I think any "half something" template applied to a halfling sound silly.
I heard, "halfling" is a human term - halflings themselves have their one name for their race(s)
(Same thing about the Dwarves - they are not suffering from dwarfism, dammit!)
Also, Ling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ling)! :smallbiggrin:

[Uncle Pine]

Fey: Half-Fey, Unseelie Fey, or Wendigo
Giant: Half-Troll
Those are all inherited templates* (except for Unseelie Fey), which means that they would be superseded by Dragonwrought at 1st level. The Unseelie Fey template description doesn't actually mention if the template is acquired or inherited, so I guess one could make an argument that by RAW you can apply it after creation, but it seemed a bit sketchy to me. However, in case of favorable ruling, Unseelie Fey + Greenbound would do the trick.

EDIT: Or don't work on Dragons (Wendingo).

[Story]

The Unseelie Fey fluff says that it comes from fey ancestry, so it's almost certainly intended to be inherited. Then again I think there are other books which talk about how to refluff inherited templates as acquired and it isn't explicitly inherited, just implied.

If you have a way of making Kobold count as human descended, you could always go for Human Heritage.

[Ger. Bessa]

Wendigo is a curse, so not inherited.

[Uncle Pine]

If you have a way of making Kobold count as human descended, you could always go for Human Heritage.
Everyone is human-descended, deep down. But unfortunately Human Heritage would be stacked on Dragonwrought negating its benefit, or vice versa.


Wendigo is a curse, so not inherited.
Still doesn't work on Dragons. :smallfrown:

@OP: Sorry for the little thread derailment. Is a half-minotaur minotaur ridiculous enough to make up for it? What about a tauric raptoran-griffon?

[Bad Wolf]

Zombie Warforged.

[Scheming Wizard]

One thing that never made sense to me was Warforged Sorcerers. I can see an intelligent construct picking up some books and learning magic to be a wizard, but sorcerers get their power from their bloodline so how do Warforged become sorcerers? Also Warforged druids are a little odd. Its a class that forbids metal weapons and armor, but they let metal beings in?

Book of exalted deeds had a good mindflayer which is fine except how/what would it eat?

[Karl Aegis]

Half-Celestial Dread Linnorm

Scented candles may have been involved.

[Uncle Pine]

One thing that never made sense to me was Warforged Sorcerers. I can see an intelligent construct picking up some books and learning magic to be a wizard, but sorcerers get their power from their bloodline so how do Warforged become sorcerers? Also Warforged druids are a little odd. Its a class that forbids metal weapons and armor, but they let metal beings in?

Book of exalted deeds had a good mindflayer which is fine except how/what would it eat?

- Maybe Warforged Sorcerers use diluited dragon blood as coolant?
- Warforged cannot take Druid levels unless they also take Unarmored Body or Ironwood Body.
- Mind flayers can feed from animals, they just prefer not to because they're EEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL. A brainwashed mind flayer probably eats cows or bought a ring of susteinance.

[Shoat]

One thing that never made sense to me was Warforged Sorcerers. I can see an intelligent construct picking up some books and learning magic to be a wizard, but sorcerers get their power from their bloodline so how do Warforged become sorcerers? Also Warforged druids are a little odd. Its a class that forbids metal weapons and armor, but they let metal beings in?

Book of exalted deeds had a good mindflayer which is fine except how/what would it eat?

Sorc magic is not about bloodlines specifically - it's about controlling inherent magic. For most mortals, the inherent magic is explained to come from a magical being somewhere far down their family tree, but other creatures don't need to get it that way since they already are magic (True Dragons and Rakshasa just come with sorc casting as part of their base package, so other magical entities should easily be able to take sorcerer levels).
I haven't dealt with warforged very much, but aren't they still magical beings? They're artifically created magical golems (even more special than an ordinary golem, since they're truly 'alive'), so there's bound to be inherent magic in them which they can learn to control and use as sorcerer/bard magic.

Warforged druids - I have no idea what the official explanation is. But since they have tons of feats to customize their body with, I assume there's a "my body's made of wood instead of metal" feat somewhere that explains them being able to cast druid spells.

A good mindflayer probably faces the same problems as a good vampire, and thus, has similar solutions. If they're born into the right kind of fantasy world, consuming lesser beings (animals) is enough to sustain them (and their evil brethren just avoid that because it tastes bad and they don't care about others' lives).
Otherwise they probably can only survive by consuming donations (near-dead sick or wounded people) or by becoming part of a place's law enforcement system (brain-eating is a far mor effective execution method in terms of inducing fear in potential criminals) or by roaming around and looking for evildoers to beat and feed upon (I'm sure there are many fanatically good and very murderous inquisitor-type good guys that a good mindflayer could become part of).

[Steampunkette]

Half-Celestial Dread Linnorm

Scented candles may have been involved.

The second line, there, is sigworthy...

As for the thread topic: Celestial Tarrasque.

[Story]

What about a tauric raptoran-griffon?

It's a shame that Dungeonbred doesn't apply to humanoids or you could make a Tauric Dungeonbred Throng of Children.

Why are there so few size changing templates?

Oh well, at least Symbiote is less picky. You can do stuff like a Symbiotic Swarm of Centipedes//Titanic Swarm of Centipedes.

P.S. While looking up Dungeonbred, I just noticed the Lavaborn template. That thing is pretty much inherently ridiculous. The description even says that it doesn't make any sense.

[Aleolus]

Half fire elemental gelatinous cube.

btw, druids have no restrictions with weapons, just armors.

[Thurbane]

Gilgamesh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgamesh): "Two-Thirds God, One-Third Human"

Kind of like Duke Lion ("He's the son of man and god and lion!"):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd3Y4o95ObU

...what would be the best way to do this in D&D? Were-lion with divine ranks?

[Shoat]

...what would be the best way to do this in D&D? Were-lion with divine ranks?

There is a type of LG outsider that's pretty much a badass lion-man already: The Leonal.

If that's not close enough for you, you could still give that guy Divine Rank 0 or 1 on top.

[The Viscount]

Hivenest zombie riding dog.

"Call the hounds? or the bees? Or the hounds with bees in their mouths so when they bark they shoot bees at you?"

Also going to say half-troll troll, because not only is it absurd on a conceptual level, it actually gives a mechanical benefit.

[Thurbane]

Hivenest zombie riding dog.

"Call the hounds? or the bees? Or the hounds with bees in their mouths so when they bark they shoot bees at you?"

I've wanted to use something similar in my game - since the Hivenest requires an Undead of size Large or larger, I used an advanced Gravehound as the base. It has the benefit of also potentially stunning victims with it's bite.

[Forrestfire]

One thing that never made sense to me was Warforged Sorcerers. I can see an intelligent construct picking up some books and learning magic to be a wizard, but sorcerers get their power from their bloodline so how do Warforged become sorcerers? Also Warforged druids are a little odd. Its a class that forbids metal weapons and armor, but they let metal beings in?

Warforged sorcerers make a fair bit of sense, as Shoat pointed out. However, even if they weren't inherently magical beings, sorcery is not based on bloodline. It can be based on bloodline, but in the class itself, the power source is "maybe blood," and in the various options, there are backstory methods given for getting sorcerous powers as a result of everything from bloodline shenanigans to quirks of fate to genetic engineering to radioactive waste. The sorcerer class' power source is as varied as superhero empowerment methods (and personally, I'd like to use "bitten by a radioactive dragon" as an explanation at some point).

For druids, well... Warforged are literally sapient tree robots. Their bodies have metal components, but their core is made of livewood fibers and tendrils, bound together into a sort of "muscle." They're closer to nature than most elves are, when you think about it. Presumably, this fact means that they get a pass when trying to channel natural magic, since their metal components are just as much a part of their body as, say, an earth elemental's possible metal bits. Also, druids can use metal weapons - the iconic druid weapon is a sword, after all. They can't use metal armor because of their vows and the connection to nature gained by them, but there are still ways around even that, if I recall correctly.

[Scheming Wizard]

Thanks to everyone who answered the Warforged druid and sorcerer questions. It helped me a lot.

[bekeleven]

Note that there is a passage in savage species that explains what to do if a character has two Half-X templates.

You rename them to "Quarter" and move on with your life. It goes on to explain that you can extrapolate this for any number of templates. Anyway, moving on.


Those are all inherited templates* (except for Unseelie Fey), which means that they would be superseded by Dragonwrought at 1st level.
Why? You begin play with your first level feat, which is first-level feats cover things like "Adamantine Body" or "Noble Birth."

The type pyramid was deprecated, so you'll need some other way of determining type-changing stacks.

[Vhaidara]

Note that there is a passage in savage species that explains what to do if a character has two Half-X templates.

You rename them to "Quarter" and move on with your life. It goes on to explain that you can extrapolate this for any number of templates. Anyway, moving on.

Yes. But when you get down to 1/64th of every kind of dragon, things are just a little bit silly. Mostly imagining what would happen if someone cast Familicide on you.

[illyahr]

Yes. But when you get down to 1/64th of every kind of dragon, things are just a little bit silly. Mostly imagining what would happen if someone cast Familicide on you.

Cue plot hook.

[Shoat]

Yes. But when you get down to 1/64th of every kind of dragon, things are just a little bit silly. Mostly imagining what would happen if someone cast Familicide on you.

At some point bloodlines should dilate and become lesser templates (and at some point later vanish), so I doubt you could make it to being 1/64th-something.
For example: Isn't the "draconic" template basically fluff-wise the "what happens a few generations after half-dragon" thing? So your 1/64th of each kind of dragon would probably not work out, since all the half-dragon templates dilute to "draconic" after some generations and you'd end up with draconic people mating with other draconic people.

Then again, this thread is not about logic. Quite the opposite even.
...I mean... we're applying half-ogre templates to half-ogres here. This is no joke.

[Necroticplague]

Some 'half' templates for very big creatures have some...interesting mechanical implication. Dragons can get around it through sorceror casting, but what about Goristros? The Half-goristro template doesn't have a limit on what size creature can have it. And all goristro are male (to my knowledge), and size category Huge. This means that the Half-goristro halfling, while the system allows for it, would have some.....mechanical difficulties coming to being.

[atemu1234]

Half-Fiend Purple Worm.

[ShurikVch]

Half-Fiend Cambion
(Cambion is a race from Expedition to the Demonweb Pits)

[Segev]

Half-Celestial Dread Linnorm

Scented candles may have been involved.

Scented candles of invocation?

Man, that has unfortunate implications (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BatheHerAndBringHerToMe).

[Shoat]

Some 'half' templates for very big creatures have some...interesting mechanical implication. Dragons can get around it through sorceror casting, but what about Goristros? The Half-goristro template doesn't have a limit on what size creature can have it. And all goristro are male (to my knowledge), and size category Huge. This means that the Half-goristro halfling, while the system allows for it, would have some.....mechanical difficulties coming to being.

I recently statted out a huge-sized creature for my campaign. I wanted her to have a cougar-like personality (to make it extra-awkward for some of the players), so she ended up having some casting-class levels and access to the enlarge and reduce spells to help the... 'compatibility' with possible partners.

Don't forget that, if the creature in question is intelligent, there's nothing preventing it from having at least a few class levels (which could possibly grant the tools to 'get the job done') to explain how your halfling came to be.

[torrasque666]

Half-goristro mechanics
Potions too. Don't forget about potions.

[Uncle Pine]

Why is everyone expecting the goristro to circumvent the mechanical difficulties of mating with a halfling? For what we know, the halfling could've had some class levels. More levels, more hp, less problems.

For me, the zombie "juju (https://satchiikoma.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/that-poor-vampire-zombie.jpg)" template always sounded silly.

[anti-ninja]

I will put forward the half-fiend half-fey black pudding,think about the implications of its existence:smallamused:.

[Vhaidara]

At some point bloodlines should dilate and become lesser templates (and at some point later vanish), so I doubt you could make it to being 1/64th-something.
For example: Isn't the "draconic" template basically fluff-wise the "what happens a few generations after half-dragon" thing? So your 1/64th of each kind of dragon would probably not work out, since all the half-dragon templates dilute to "draconic" after some generations and you'd end up with draconic people mating with other draconic people.

Then again, this thread is not about logic. Quite the opposite even.
...I mean... we're applying half-ogre templates to half-ogres here. This is no joke.

Except that, because you can keep applying half dragon, it never becomes draconic. That is an unconnected template (except by fluff)

[Aleolus]

Except that, because you can keep applying half dragon, it never becomes draconic. That is an unconnected template (except by fluff)

He was speaking realistically, not mechanically. So you are both correct.

Back on topic of the thread, I've always liked the idea of a mutt dragon. Take a dragon, add half dragon a few times and take it from there

[Vhaidara]

He was speaking realistically, not mechanically. So you are both correct.

Back on topic of the thread, I've always liked the idea of a mutt dragon. Take a dragon, add half dragon a few times and take it from there

You can also get a purebred Mutt Dragon.

Half Red Dragon Half Red Dragon Red Dragon. Totally legal by all mechanics.

[Deadline]

I think any "half something" template applied to a halfling sound silly.

"Hi, I'm a half-dragon halfling."

"What's a ling?"

Every time I've run a Planescape campaign, I've included Ling as an NPC. He appears to be a halfling, speaks about himself in the third person (with a suave little accent), and has a soft spot for anything that is "half Ling" (halflings, mephlings, tieflings, etc.), because clearly they are the offspring of one of his many, many conquests.

"You ask who he is, and he answers! He is Ling! Honored are you to be graced with his presence. And he sees that one of your party is the fruit of his loins. This is good. Everyone should be half Ling!"

I can't remember where I got him from, but he's not an original creation of mine. When it was necessary, I represented him as a halfling Monster of Legend with the outsider type.

[Ettina]

I recently statted out a huge-sized creature for my campaign. I wanted her to have a cougar-like personality (to make it extra-awkward for some of the players), so she ended up having some casting-class levels and access to the enlarge and reduce spells to help the... 'compatibility' with possible partners.

I was imagining her having a personality like a puma concolor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar), and got really confused when you started talking about sex.

[Story]

Half Red Dragon Half Red Dragon Red Dragon. Totally legal by all mechanics.

Can you apply the same template more than once like that? I thought it was only for ones that specifically said so, like Evolved Undead.

[Vinyl Scratch]

Half-Farspawn Tsochar (Lords of Madness)

Bundle of tentacles monster that gains two more tentacles and an alternate form, turning into... a ball of tentacles!

[Shoat]

Except that, because you can keep applying half dragon, it never becomes draconic. That is an unconnected template (except by fluff)

As Aleolus pointed out, we're looking at it from different angles here. I find the very idea of "let's just apply this template and ignore all the obvious constraints that come with genetics" a bit silly and there is an extremely obvious connection between the two templates that I'd enforce ingame because it's logical.
If you just keep "applying" half-dragon (which means mating your non-full-dragon with a full-dragon each generation) the children should, at best, keep the most recent "application" of half-dragon while the previous ones should dilute and be 'less than' half-dragon (either gone or replaced by draconic).

Our rules and mechanics are just an abstract way of simulating a world (written by a huge team of people who had no chance of thinking of every single interconnection between every single mechanic), so "fluff" and, more importantly, logic, are a very important part. Looking at what the rules literally allow or disallow in is often very headache-inducing.

That does, of course, not reduce the hilarity of what's going on in this thread. :)

[Necroticplague]

As Aleolus pointed out, we're looking at it from different angles here. I find the very idea of "let's just apply this template and ignore all the obvious constraints that come with genetics" a bit silly and there is an extremely obvious connection between the two templates that I'd enforce ingame because it's logical.
If you just keep "applying" half-dragon (which means mating your non-full-dragon with a full-dragon each generation) the children should, at best, keep the most recent "application" of half-dragon while the previous ones should dilute and be 'less than' half-dragon (either gone or replaced by draconic).

Our rules and mechanics are just an abstract way of simulating a world (written by a huge team of people who had no chance of thinking of every single interconnection between every single mechanic), so "fluff" and, more importantly, logic, are a very important part. Looking at what the rules literally allow or disallow in is often very headache-inducing.

That does, of course, not reduce the hilarity of what's going on in this thread. :)

Actually, we don't have enough information about the genetics of the related traits to say if they would 'dilute' like that. It could be that 'half-dragonship' is a dominant trait, meaning that if you have any of the genetics for it, you receive the full benefit.

[MesiDoomstalker]

If I may, D&D half-templates only loosely follow our current understanding of genetic inheritance. Mainly, because its assuming we are all very closely related clade, close enough that we may hybridize (we in this instance means literally frigging everything, considering the light restrictions on the Half-Dragon template). Based just on what is passe down, the traits are likely grouped together genetically, meaning its impossible to have an off-spring without those traits, because any combination of Dragon and Other Parent DNA results in those traits (stacked ontop of Other Parents traits). If we follow that, then a Half-Dragon Whatever, when breeding with another Whatever, would produce a Half-Dragon Whatever. Obviously, that is not the case, otherwise we'd have huge groups of Half-Dragons in every major Humanoid race in every campaign setting with prevalent Dragon's to which to seduce humanoids (or vice-versa).

[Zale]

Dustform Dream Element Shriekers.

They have no ability scores and are..


Well done.

Looking at the fluff of this:

So you are the dusty memory of a dream of a plant which screams.

[ShurikVch]

Shark/Mineral Warrior

Penguin/Kaiju

Pseodonatural Kaorti

Anarchic Chaotic Arch-Dragon Chaos Dragon
Radiant Creature Radiant Dragon
Shadow Creature Dark Creature Shadow Dragon

Entropic Creature Energon (Xag-Ya)
Vivacious Creature Energon (Xeg-Yi)
Entropic Creature Vivacious Creature Anything
Undead Vivacious Creature


If we follow that, then a Half-Dragon Whatever, when breeding with another Whatever, would produce a Half-Dragon Whatever.And, by the RAW, they should - Half-Dragon template require just a Dragon type; Half-Dragon is still a Dragon, thus the children will be Half-Dragons too

[Draco_Lord]

I'm going to say the Platypus. That thing has got to have some wicked templates.

[Segev]

I'm going to say the Platypus. That thing has got to have some wicked templates.

That "duck-billed" template is a killer.

[Taveena]

I personally have a soft spot for the Warforged Walker in the Waste who gains the Dry Lich template - they become an Undead (Living Construct), and as a result retain their constitution score (and con to HP) as that's an explicit benefit of the Living Construct subtype, but also gain cha to HP, heal half from positive energy, full from negative, and full from repair damage.

You're simultaneously a construct, a living creature, and an undead creature, fluffwise.


And, by the RAW, they should - Half-Dragon template require just a Dragon type; Half-Dragon is still a Dragon, thus the children will be Half-Dragons too

So a Dragonwrought Kobold results in Half-Dragon kids?

[torrasque666]

I personally have a soft spot for the Warforged Walker in the Waste who gains the Dry Lich template - they become an Undead (Living Construct), and as a result retain their constitution score (and con to HP) as that's an explicit benefit of the Living Construct subtype, but also gain cha to HP, heal half from positive energy, full from negative, and full from repair damage.

You're simultaneously a construct, a living creature, and an undead creature, fluffwise.

If you can cram Reforged in there, its full from Positive energy too.

[nedz]

Tauric Halfling Giant Bees

Tauric Drow Giant Spiders

Tauric Halfling Squids

[Vinyl Scratch]

I call this "Nesting Doll Monsters"

Symbiotic Ogre/Wood Elemental Tsochar, plus another Ogre. The Ogre is the host. The ogres can be anything that works with the symbiotic template that happens to be large.

The Tsochar is given the Wood Elemental template so it can get the plant type and be eligible for the symbiotic template.

Via the symbiotic template, the Tsochar passes the "Wear Flesh" ability to the composite creature. This allows it to inhabit another creature of the same size or larger. Like say, another ogre. It can then burst out whenever, dealing some damage to the original ogre.

If you are feeling really recursive, there really isn't anything by RAW stopping you from having a ogre/tsochar wearing another ogre/tsochar, and having the second one inhabit something else. You technically can have infinite ogres wearing one another, if you really wanted to.

Edit: Tsocahr is from Lords of Madness, Symbiotic is from Savage Species, Wood Elemental is from Manual of the Planes

[Thurbane]

Gravetouched Ghoul Will-o-wisp makes me chuckle.

Small invisible, squidgy ball with teeth and claws.

AFAIK, if creature don't have any limbs, it don't get Claw attacks (text used Purple Worm as example)
Can I get some clarification on this: I once raised the issue of the Gravetouched Ghoul Will-o-wisp in the Simple Q&A by RAW thread, and the consensus was that it would have claw and bite attacks.

Also, I was a little disappointed that I can't have a Half-troll Athach: I wanted to turn the giant-like Aberration into an actual Giant.

[ShurikVch]

I personally have a soft spot for the Warforged Walker in the Waste who gains the Dry Lich template - they become an Undead (Living Construct), and as a result retain their constitution score (and con to HP) as that's an explicit benefit of the Living Construct subtype, but also gain cha to HP, heal half from positive energy, full from negative, and full from repair damage.

You're simultaneously a construct, a living creature, and an undead creature, fluffwise.Another ways to get similar effects:
Tauric Undead (with Shadow Creature template)/Warforged (under the effect of Greater Humanoid Essence) = Monstrous Humanoid without Con score, with Undead Traits, and (Living Construct) subtype
Exiled Modron with dip in Grim Psion (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20030628b)


So a Dragonwrought Kobold results in Half-Dragon kids?By the RAW - yes! :smallbiggrin: Why not?

[Uncle Pine]

Can I get some clarification on this: I once raised the issue of the Gravetouched Ghoul Will-o-wisp in the Simple Q&A by RAW thread, and the consensus was that it would have claw and bite attacks.


"Gravetouched ghoul" is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal aberration, fey, giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid with Intelligence and Charisma scores of 3 or higher (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

Attack: A gravetouched ghoul retains all the attacks of the base creature and also gains a bite and two claw attacks if it didn't already have them. If the base creature uses weapons, the gravetouched ghoul retains this ability. A creature with natural weapons retains those natural weapons. A gravetouched ghoul fighting without weapons uses its bite attack. A gravetouched ghoul armed with a weapon uses its bite or weapon as it desires.

Full Attack: A gravetouched ghoul fighting without weapons uses its bite and two claws to attack. If armed with a weapon, it chooses whether to use the weapon or use its natural attacks.

Damage: Gravetouched ghouls have bite and claw attacks. If the base creature does not have this attack form, use the appropriate damage value from the table below according to the gravetouched ghoul's size. Creatures that have other kinds of natural weapons retain their old damage values or use the appropriate value from the table below, whichever is better.
Nothing implies that creatures without limbs don't get claw attacks. I don't see any mention of purple worms either.


So a Dragonwrought Kobold results in Half-Dragon kids?
Only true dragons spawns half-dragons, so YMMV. However, as "a half-dragon retains all the special attacks of the base creature and gains a breath weapon based on the dragon variety" and "an additional immunity based on its dragon variety", a half-dragonwrought kobold wouldn't gain any breath weapon and one would need to come up with an immunity to bestow to it. May I suggest immunity to proper editing?

[ShurikVch]

Nothing implies that creatures without limbs don't get claw attacks. I don't see any mention of purple worms either.Note: quote from Libris Mortis is, actually, an almost direct reiteration of RAW for the Half-Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfDragon.htm) and Half-Fiend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfFiend.htm) templates
I can't find where I seen that rule; it was not about the Gravetouched Ghoul, but about the general case of "getting claws", and used Purple Worm as example when you don't
For example, would you insist on existence of claws on the Half-Dragon Snake? :smallconfused:
If Unbodied (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm) manifests Claws of the Beast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/clawsoftheBeast.htm), will he actually get them?
Half-Fiend Purple Worm in one printed adventure have no claw attack...

Only true dragons spawns half-dragons, so YMMV.It's a common RAI, but actually, template appeared years before the very term "True Dragon"

[Uncle Pine]

Note: quote from Libris Mortis is, actually, an almost direct reiteration of RAW for the Half-Dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfDragon.htm) and Half-Fiend (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/halfFiend.htm) templates
I can't find where I seen that rule; it was not about the Gravetouched Ghoul, but about the general case of "getting claws", and used Purple Worm as example when you don't
For example, would you insist on existence of claws on the Half-Dragon Snake? :smallconfused:
"It's magic, I ain't gonna explain it." Which means yes, but I don't find unreasonable to rule otherwise.


If Unbodied (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/unbodied.htm) manifests Claws of the Beast (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/clawsoftheBeast.htm), will he actually get them?
Claws of the Beast does state "psionically transforming your hands into deadly claws", so I'd lean toward no.


It's a common RAI, but actually, template appeared years before the very term "True Dragon"

Draconomicon states "true dragon" under "half-dragon".

[ShurikVch]

Draconomicon states "true dragon" under "half-dragon".No, not exactly: it just says it used True Dragons as example, but don't forbid anything

[Segev]

I call this "Nesting Doll Monsters"

Symbiotic Ogre/Wood Elemental Tsochar, plus another Ogre. The Ogre is the host. The ogres can be anything that works with the symbiotic template that happens to be large.

The Tsochar is given the Wood Elemental template so it can get the plant type and be eligible for the symbiotic template.

Via the symbiotic template, the Tsochar passes the "Wear Flesh" ability to the composite creature. This allows it to inhabit another creature of the same size or larger. Like say, another ogre. It can then burst out whenever, dealing some damage to the original ogre.

If you are feeling really recursive, there really isn't anything by RAW stopping you from having a ogre/tsochar wearing another ogre/tsochar, and having the second one inhabit something else. You technically can have infinite ogres wearing one another, if you really wanted to.

Edit: Tsocahr is from Lords of Madness, Symbiotic is from Savage Species, Wood Elemental is from Manual of the Planes

Okay, this is all kinds of awesome. Well done.

[Uncle Pine]

No, not exactly: it just says it used True Dragons as example, but don't forbid anything

You're right. I didn't check the book and thought it actually mentioned something like "you can adapt any other true dragon following the X guidelines".