Fastest way to qualify for PrC...

[Herabec]

Hey everyone! It's been a long time since I've played 3.5 D&D, so I'm looking for a little bit of advice.

My dungeon master's pretty awesome, and is allowing me to take the Master Assassin (http://dungeons.wikia.com/wiki/Master_Assassin_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)) prestige class. I'm trying to find the fastest, best way to qualify for it so I can grab it as soon as possible.

Level: Rogue 3
Race: Lesser Tiefling
Stats:
STR: 13
DEX: 20
CON: 14
INT: 18
WIS: 14
CHA: 11

Feats: Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse (which, as an awesome houserule, adds dex to damage for both ranged and melee attacks)

Skills: Am qualified.

I was thinking of taking a few levels of dip into Thug with the sneak attack variant to get the +3 BAB and the sneak attack necessary

However, since I'm most certainly not the most awesome at optimization (if you could call anything not spellcaster-y optimized), I thought I might ask for some advice from my friendly neighborhood playgrounders!

[Crake]

Since it's generally assumed that bad homebrew is bad, it might be best to go over exactly why you want to go into that homebrew assassin class? There is already an assassin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/assassin.htm) prestige class, why do you want that master assassin class over that? Regular assassin literally only has skill requirements to enter (except the special of course, but if your DM is as awesome as you say, you could probably get him to drop that requirement, or look into the avenger (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a), which is an exact copy of assassin, just with different fluff).

Since you have more skill points, and less bab, the normal assassin class would be much easier for you to qualify for rather than one that has a 5 bab requirement which will always be a pain for a rogue-ish character to achieve early.

But yeah, if you could explain what you're actually looking for, we could maybe help you build something first party without needing to use poorly designed and implemented homebrew.

[Herabec]

I like the Master Assassin more than the standard Assassin, as the spells they get are - while good - not really what I'm after since most of the group is already spellcasters. Instead, I was going with Master Assassin for poison immunity, ability to craft any poisons for (essentially) free and the various 'tricks' they get. Furthermore, since the Master Assassin is only a 5 level prestige class, it'll allow me to grab Assassin levels later if I so choose. Which, I probably will - I'd just rather get Master Assassin first.

[Aliek]

Most straightforward entry should be a thug fighter(with the sneak attack variant, of course) 5. But that's neither much fun nor particularly good!
Not resorting to high op, a single thug fighter level into another full BAB class into 4 swordsage levels mean you may qualify at lv6, but your stance would be limited to assassin's stance. Not that it's a bad tradeoff, it's a pretty good stance. But with that, you can be much more versatile than a simple thug 5, while still qualifying for whatever it is you wanna do on that PrC. Heck, after lv9 you won't even need the stance!

So there you go. Goes best for the lactose intolerant, as there's barely any cheese :smallbiggrin:

[Venger]

black dog does all that stuff already and mixes well with assassin. use that instead.

[Karl Aegis]

I would just go with Barbarian 2 + Assassin 2 for your build so far, trading away rage, fast movement and uncanny dodge for whirling frenzy, pounce and improved trip. Spellthief 1 / Barbarian 2 / Ranger 1 / Warblade 1 / Assassin 3 is probably a better entry because you can get Master Spellthief and Obtain Familiar to help with skillmonkey duties.

I don't think sneak attack fighter works because their sneak attack doesn't explicitly mention it stacks with other forms of sneak attack. Maybe it doesn't matter because text trumps table RAW the master assassin doesn't get sneak attack at all.

[Venger]

I would just go with Barbarian 2 + Assassin 2 for your build so far, trading away rage, fast movement and uncanny dodge for whirling frenzy, pounce and improved trip. Spellthief 1 / Barbarian 2 / Ranger 1 / Warblade 1 / Assassin 3 is probably a better entry because you can get Master Spellthief and Obtain Familiar to help with skillmonkey duties.

I don't think sneak attack fighter works because their sneak attack doesn't explicitly mention it stacks with other forms of sneak attack. Maybe it doesn't matter because text trumps table RAW the master assassin doesn't get sneak attack at all.

sneak attack always stacks. it and sudden strike can be used interchangeably as per the sidebar on p25 of csco

[Aliek]

Maybe it doesn't matter because text trumps table RAW the master assassin doesn't get sneak attack at all.

Text trumps table when they disagree, not when one is missing :smalltongue:

Sneak attack fighter does imply "as rogue", and, at least in the case of assassin's stance, it explicity stacks with other forms of sneak attack.

[Herabec]

I would just go with Barbarian 2 + Assassin 2 for your build so far, trading away rage, fast movement and uncanny dodge for whirling frenzy, pounce and improved trip.

This intrigues me. I can understand how you get pounce with Spirit Lion Totem and Whirling Frenzy, but how do I trade away Uncanny Dodge for Improved Trip?

[Karl Aegis]

This intrigues me. I can understand how you get pounce with Spirit Lion Totem and Whirling Frenzy, but how do I trade away Uncanny Dodge for Improved Trip?

Wolf Totem Barbarian from the same book as Whirling Frenzy: Unearthed Arcana.

[Herabec]

Hm. Are you even capable of taking multiple totems? I thought they were mutually exclusive.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

I wouldn't go Sneak Attack Thug Fighter. I would go Sneak Attack Hit and Run Fighter (Drow of the Underdark). It gives you a competence bonus to damage equal to your DEX mod when attacking a flat-footed opponent within 30'.

Then I would dip Swordsage (Tome of Battle) for a shadow hand stance (the flanking one is nice) and some maneuvers. Take two levels if you want the +2d6 sneak attack stance.

I would also take the following feats ASAP: Darkstalker (Lords of Madness), Craven (Champions of Ruin), Shadow Blade (Tome of Battle), in that order. You may want to dip some bonus-feat-granting classes as well.

With all those, you'll have plenty of sneak attack, be very hard to detect, and add three times your dex mod whether or not the enemy is immune to precision damage.

One level of whirlpounce barbarian is nice if you can fit it in, but I'd prioritize making a better assassin over making you a better frothing-at-the-mouth dex pouncer, unless that's what you're going for.

[bekeleven]

Hm. Are you even capable of taking multiple totems? I thought they were mutually exclusive.

RAW, the totems trade completely different things away, so you can take both.

If you have to justify it to your DM, say that you're combining the two into a totem of an animal that pounces and trips. Fleshraker comes to mind...

[Herabec]

I wouldn't go Sneak Attack Thug Fighter. I would go Sneak Attack Hit and Run Fighter (Drow of the Underdark). It gives you a competence bonus to damage equal to your DEX mod when attacking a flat-footed opponent within 30'.

Then I would dip Swordsage (Tome of Battle) for a shadow hand stance (the flanking one is nice) and some maneuvers. Take two levels if you want the +2d6 sneak attack stance.

I would also take the following feats ASAP: Darkstalker (Lords of Madness), Craven (Champions of Ruin), Shadow Blade (Tome of Battle), in that order. You may want to dip some bonus-feat-granting classes as well.

With all those, you'll have plenty of sneak attack, be very hard to detect, and add three times your dex mod whether or not the enemy is immune to precision damage.

One level of whirlpounce barbarian is nice if you can fit it in, but I'd prioritize making a better assassin over making you a better frothing-at-the-mouth dex pouncer, unless that's what you're going for.

That actually doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. Looking at it I could take 1 level of Hit and Run Fighter and 3 levels of Swordsage and start taking Master Assassin levels at 8th... unless I messed up somewhere. A little later than I'd like, but the extra +dex to damage and the stances/maneuvers are almost too yummy to pass up.

[WhamBamSam]

Hm. Are you even capable of taking multiple totems? I thought they were mutually exclusive.The Spiritual Totems in Complete Champion are distinct from the Totem Barbarian variants in UA. Most of the time, they are mutually exclusive, but the Wolf Totem (the best one) doesn't trade away any of the same features as the spiritual totems, so it's fair game.

Also, if you want to produce a lot of poison, take Hidden Talent (Psionic Minor Creation) at first level and use that to pump out Black Lotus Extract (which is a vegetable material, though it'll probably require a DC 35 Craft check (tough-ish, but manageable) for a "complex" item).

[Herabec]

The Spiritual Totems in Complete Champion are distinct from the Totem Barbarian variants in UA. Most of the time, they are mutually exclusive, but the Wolf Totem (the best one) doesn't trade away any of the same features as the spiritual totems, so it's fair game.

Also, if you want to produce a lot of poison, take Hidden Talent (Psionic Minor Creation) at first level and use that to pump out Black Lotus Extract (which is a vegetable material, though it'll probably require a DC 35 Craft check (tough-ish, but manageable) for a "complex" item).

Actually, grabbing the first level of Master Assassin will allow me to craft up to 5 doses of Black Lotus Extract for the price of a healer's kit every day without the need for any crafting checks, while also granting me complete immunity to all forms of poison.

[Venger]

Actually, grabbing the first level of Master Assassin will allow me to craft up to 5 doses of Black Lotus Extract for the price of a healer's kit every day without the need for any crafting checks, while also granting me complete immunity to all forms of poison.

sounds balanced

check out black dog to fill out later levels if you want to focus around poison, it offers you a lot of useful tricks. since your DM's very permissive, see if he'll let you tweak the race if for whatever reason you don't want to enter as strongheart halfling. they're associated with house dhurinda since they're eberron specific, but fluff can easily be changed.

[Invader]

I like that it effectively gives you like a +14 weapon at 20th level.

[Herabec]

sounds balanced

check out black dog to fill out later levels if you want to focus around poison, it offers you a lot of useful tricks. since your DM's very permissive, see if he'll let you tweak the race if for whatever reason you don't want to enter as strongheart halfling. they're associated with house dhurinda since they're eberron specific, but fluff can easily be changed.

Still more balanced than a wizard. :P

And it's not really that I don't want to enter as a strongheart halfling, it's that I'm already *not* a strongheart halfling. I'll see if he'll lift the racial requirement though since he's pretty flexible. Looks like that could be a fun class to add.


I like that it effectively gives you like a +14 weapon at 20th level.

Yeah...

Too bad it doesn't work with rapiers, since those are martial.

[nedz]

If I'm reading this class correctly — it gives full spellcasting progression, if you already have spellcasting ?

So something like Halfling Rogue 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 1 would get you 3d6 (ranged) sneak and 5 caster levels.

Or Halfling Rogue 3 / Warlock 2 (not in that order) — to make your sneak attacks magical ranged touch, and grab lots of invocations.