CoDzilla Me!!

[Lostintransit]

Okay people I need your help! I need the most twinked out human cleric you can think off!

Starting stats: 17,15,14,14,11,11
Level: 11
Starting wealth: 11(66,000gp)
Available books: PHB & DMG
Also i'm not allowed to make my own items until the game starts but as soon as it does all bets are off!

So come on people gimme some aid!:smallsmile:



Lost

[Telonius]

Just PHB and DMG? Let's see what we can do with that. (Please feel free to critique this, I'm not particularly experienced with playing clerics). I'm assuming the stats you gave are before any ability bumps. First, since he's a caster, make him middle aged. This will help out his casting abilities (though at the expense of his physical stats).

STR 13 = 14 -1 (middle aged)
DEX 13 = 14 -1 (middle aged)
CON 14 = 15 -1 (middle aged)
WIS 20 = 17 +1(lvl 4) +1 (lvl 8)+1 (middle aged)
INT 12 = 11 +1 (middle aged)
CHA 12 = 11 +1 (middle aged)

EDIT: I'd suggest bumping up STR at 12th level.

Feats
Level 1 Extend Spell
Level 1 Empower Spell
Level 3 Power Attack
Level 6 Spell Penetration
Level 9 ... it depends. If you're going to be in an undead-heavy setting, you'll want Improved Turning. Otherwise, pick either Combat Casting or Skill Focus (Concentration). (There's some debate as to which one of these is more useful; check out the descriptions and decide for yourself). Either way, pick up whichever one you didn't take when you level up to 12.

Are you limited to the PHB deities and their domains?

[Person_Man]

Are you allowed to use the full SRD, or just the DMG and PHB?

Is publicly available material on the WotC website usable?

If you can use the SRD and other publicly available content, that opens up a lot of doors. And most DM's will allow it.

Otherwise, there's really not much advice to give. The best core only domains are Travel, Trickery, and Strength. There are no good core only divine prestige classes. Your feats are pretty much limited to Power Attack and metamagic.

Buy an animate shield and mithral full plate. Use a reach weapon two handed with Power Attack. Before combat cast whatever long term buffs you want, plus Invisibility (Trickery) and Fly (Travel). Just before combat cast Divine Power. Beat the crud out of people from above, starting with the enemy spellcasters. They won't be able to reach you without magic or ranged weapons. Make sure someone in the group is an excellent scout, because being an effective Cleric depends on having prep time before combat to cast spells. If there are a lot of enemies, spend the first round or two summoning monsters, then help them beat the tar out of people.

[Hario]

Telonius No one should ever need Combat casting or Skill focus Concentration, those are a waste of feats, at lvl 11 you can easily have a concentration of 14 w/o modifiers which is more than enough to pass any defencive casting check. Now if you want you can either go straight cleric and keep turning or take a PrC which is benificial for a the cleric seeing as you can PrC as a cleric as easily as lvl 4 and Turning is very weak, what your feats should look like are:
lvl 1 Extend spell, lvl 3 Persistant spell lvl 6 divine metamagic (Persistant spell) and then power attack at lvl 9, if you are human you can choose to take cleave or another feat, what I did for my Codzilla was take Fist of Raziel from the book of exalted deeds, it gives you martial proficiency, full BAB and 9/10 caster progression and a bunch of abilities including a bunch of smites, this PrC can make you an awesome fighter, and you can Persist spells like Divine Power all day long, if you have libris mortis there is an item that gives you +4 turning attempts per day for 7.5k its call a night stick

[Telonius]

Telonius No one should ever need Combat casting or Skill focus Concentration, those are a waste of feats, at lvl 11 you can easily have a concentration of 14 w/o modifiers which is more than enough to pass any defencive casting check. Now if you want you can either go straight cleric and keep turning or take a PrC which is benificial for a the cleric seeing as you can PrC as a cleric as easily as lvl 4 and Turning is very weak, what your feats should look like are:
lvl 1 Extend spell, lvl 3 Persistant spell lvl 6 divine metamagic (Persistant spell) and then power attack at lvl 9, if you are human you can choose to take cleave or another feat, what I did for my Codzilla was take Fist of Raziel from the book of exalted deeds, it gives you martial proficiency, full BAB and 9/10 caster progression and a bunch of abilities including a bunch of smites, this PrC can make you an awesome fighter, and you can Persist spells like Divine Power all day long, if you have libris mortis there is an item that gives you +4 turning attempts per day for 7.5k its call a night stick

Hmmm, looks like you're right on that - I've only ever played Clerics in low-level campaigns, where it actually can make a bit of a differece. Concentration at level 11 for the character based on the stats would be a bonus of 19, minimum roll of 20. So, auto-success on casting while pinned, and auto-success on casting defensively for 5th level spells or lower. So yeah, never mind on the Skill focus or Combat Casting.

Unfortunately he doesn't have access to Complete Divine or Complete Arcane, so Divine Metamagic and Persistent Spell are out. It's PHB and DMG only.

[Sir Giacomo]

CoDzilla?

Well...:smallbiggrin:

greenknight has done a very powerful core cleric build here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2244519&postcount=389

Actually that version is level 20, so quite some way to go...its power is in part derived from the trickery and magic domains. The latter provides scroll casting ability of a wizard half the level of the cleric without UMD (so up to 3rd level arcane spells in the case of your lvl 11 cleric, inlcuding haste). The first gives access to some nice illusion effects, plus good skills.

Key for a strong Czilla is to get some way to quicken your buff spells so you can fight right away; with a feat, or better, with metamagic rods. You could also concentrate more on archery than greenknight's build at low levels (Divine Favour provices luck boni)

Try to get the karma beads as soon as your DM allows; it is a major spell casting boost.

- Giacomo

[Shrew]

How does one get their Wisdom as an AC modifier with a cleric?

[Sir Giacomo]

With a monk's belt (11,000gp). By WotC FAQ, it gives a 5th level monk's AC, which includes the WIS Bonus

- Giacomo

[Hario]

Monk's belt does not actually give you wisdom bonus to AC, it gives you a +1 deflection bonus to AC, like what a monk gets every 5 levels, it does not give you the actual wisdom bonus to AC, Just wear full plate it is just as good.

[Telonius]

Monk's belt does not actually give you wisdom bonus to AC, it gives you a +1 deflection bonus to AC, like what a monk gets every 5 levels, it does not give you the actual wisdom bonus to AC, Just wear full plate it is just as good.


Actually, yes, it does grant the Wisdom bonus to AC. From the WotC FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a):


Does a monk’s belt (Dungeon Master’s Guide, 248) grant a non-monk wearer his Wisdom bonus to AC?


Yes. Note, however, that the wearer gains the AC bonus only when unarmored and unencumbered, since the belt clearly

states that “this AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC

bonus.”



Personally I find this ruling pretty bizarre, and feel free to houserule to the contrary. But, as it stands, it's official RAW.

[Draz74]

Actually, yes, it does grant the Wisdom bonus to AC. From the WotC FAQ (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a):




Personally I find this ruling pretty bizarre, and feel free to houserule to the contrary. But, as it stands, it's official RAW.


Even without the FAQ, I see no ambiguity: "This bonus to AC work's just like the Monk's." That means no using it while wearing armor or shield, but it also means your Wisdom bonus is included.

I see no reason to houserule it either. It's not like it's overpowered. You're not going to have a better AC with a Monk's Belt than you would have had with armor and shield, even if your Wisdom is super high and your Dexterity is pretty high. Magic armor and shields are cheap.

Oh, and: the Monk's bonus to AC is not a Deflection bonus.

[warmachine]

I prefer Combat Casting myself. Assuming CON bonus +2, Concentration +16 against DC 21 to avoid an AoO by nasty monster when casting 6th level spells is still 20% chance of failure. This is workable except when you absolutely cannot afford to fizzle that round, such as a fighter being smacked around by said monster and needs healing badly.

As for the OP, for a start, your preferred style is needed. What do you prefer: healer, party buffer, tank, magic support or hybrid?

[Telonius]

... d'oh! I always forget that it's Con-based, not Wis-based. Hoo-kay, yeah, base Concentration check of +14 from ranks, + 2 from Con = +16 total check. Auto-success on spells level 2 or lower, you need to roll a 4 to cast while grappled or pinned. So yeah, you can still fail a concentration check for higher-level spells, if you roll poorly enough.

[CASTLEMIKE]

It depends on what you want to do but you should probably be wearing Heavy Full Plate Mithral Armor +8 Armor Bonus in an Antimagic Zone or Non Magic Area (Which becomes much lighter Med Armor because of the Mithril) and Increasing with Minor Enhancement and synergizing other magic item bonuses. With a Heavy Mithral +1 or +2 Shield you have a +13 or +14 Arcmor/Shield Bonus.

Having an emergency potion of Expeditious Retreat will save you from Most Encounters where speed is important and Having the Travel Domain will grant you Teleport Once a Day.

It sounds like your DM requires you to Spend All 66,000 GP before the campaign starts up and you can use a Crafting Feat you already paid for. That is a Penalty Understandable but still a Penalty so I Suggest Your PC Does Not Take Any Crafting Feats until level 12 when you level up in campaign and Split/Choose Other Crafting Feats with the Other Spellcasters for Party Magic Item Enchantment.

I would suggest something like Cleric - 7 and Thaumaturgist -4 and Then Thaum - 5 at Level 12 if you don't have the Leadership Feat followed by entering the Loremaster PRC.

Spell Focus Conjuration and Level 7 casting Lesser Planar Ally Qualifies you Plus Another Key Synergy is the 5 PRC Levels Help Your PC Qualify for Loremaster which Requires Any 3 Meta or Item Creation Feats + casting 3 Divination Spells One of which must be Level 3 or Higher.

The Two Required Feats are: Skill Focus Conjuration for Thaumaturgist between Level 1 and 6, Skill Focus Knowledge at Level 9 for future Loremaster PRC.

I suggest Taking Craft Wonderous Item at Level 12 (Normally I would recommend at Level 3 with Leadership at Level 6 with DM approval).

I would recommend going Thaum for 5 Levels because it is Very Easy to Qualify For (One Feat and Knowing One Spell) and has Very Nice Specials compared to a Standard in game Cleric which Mostly Augment Monster Summoning. Including a Planar Cohort you would recieve at Level 12 (Many DMs will let you trade it out for something like a Familiar if you spent a feat on Leadership particularly if you discuss it with them in advance). Then Pursue LoreMaster and at Level 14 the PC would gain Lore like a Bard plus "something" even languages can be nice for every level of the PRC.

A Combination of the Two with a Good Build after Level 12 Pursuing Loremaster basically because they are usually better than just going Cleric for 11 levels without gaining anything leveling up and those are the best options in the DMG with full spellcasting for a Cleric.

Feat Slots Human Bonus, Level 1, 3, 6 and 9 for a Total of 5.

That Leaves Three Open Feat Choices: I like Improved Initiative (your PC tends to survive better if they act before the BBEG) I normally like Leadership with DM Approval at Level 6 for your own Budding Home Downtime Power Base Abbey (with a Clerical Follower for a New Small or Rural Chruch) or Budding Stronghold (Also Fuels the Campaign with occassional minor side adventures dealing with problems) but then Don't go Level 5 Thaum unless your DM will throw you a bone for losing the normal planar cohort as you don't get anything your Planar Cohort replaces your standard cohort. But 3 Feats for your Fleshing Out the PRC:

Dodge, Mobility, Extra Turning, Greater Spell Focus Conjuration, One or Two Not All of the Various Crafting Feats if you were not already penalized for choosing them but being unable to use them the Craft Feats by Game Utility for the thread conditions IMO: Craft Wonderous Item, Scribe Scroll, Craft Ring at Level 12, Craft Magical Arms and Armor, Brew Potion (Usually Disposable One Shot Potions are available in most games with No Trouble).

****Four Domains stick out to me for utility based on your Cleric Concept:

Travel Domain for Teleport and the Very Useful Free Action Domain Ability you can Prorate as your PC Needs it. The Comparable Magic Item is Expensive and your PC cannot normally access a Scroll or Spell of Free Action when stuck in many situations allow this Domain Ability would give you that opportunity. Plus now you can have a borderlands or rural stronghold or minor domain and still get to town.

The Magic Domain is Very Nice for using Scrolls, Wands and Other devices with Spell completion or triggers as a wizard of half your cleric level. This is most useful in campaigns where magic rules with items don't blur (If your Cleric can use a Wand of Sleep or Magic Missile without problems i the campaign you don't need this domain)

The Sun Domain for better Undead Turning if you are going to be Turning Undead in your campaign.

The War Domain gets you a Free Martial Weapon Proficiency with your Dietie's Weapon. Nice if it is a Bastard Sword not so hot if it is a Dagger.

****Wis 21 (19 (17 +2 for leveling up) +2 for Periapt you will improve at Level 12 to +4 for 6,000 GP)), Char - 15, Con - 14, St or Dex - 14 depends on your concept (Physical Combat or Spellcasting).

Magic Items (With market prices):

Periapt of Wisdom +2 4,000 GP (You can improve it later in game cheaper with Craft Wonderous Item Feat)

Pearls of Power Lots (A Half Dozen to a Dozen or So because Then Your PC can Memorize All Different First Level Spells and Be Like a Sorcerer Casting as Needed) of First Level Ones at 1,000 GP (and at Least One or Two at Level Two for 4,000 GP Unless you Plan to Increase them with Craft Wonderous at Level 12) as Any Spellcaster Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Sorcerer or Wizard in the Party can Benefit from them.

Hewards Handy Haversack for carrying things 2,000 GP and Ready Access Reaching In.

Wands of Cure Light (and Fast Healing 1) at 750 GP.

+1 or +2 Shield of some type even if only a Buckler for the AC Bonus.

IMO +2 Full Plate Mithral Armor (14,500 GP) 4,000 GP for Enchantment, 1,500 GP for the Armor +9,000 GP Mithril) , a +1 Heavy or Buckler Mithral Shield (2,200 GP) and a Plain Mithril Shirt for Walking Around Town (1,100 GP) without Clunking and being Stared at would be more useful than a 13,000 GP Monk's Belt.

Tan Bag of Tricks is still pretty useful at 6,300 GP for the price and What it Does (Particularly if you can make it for half market price).

A Base +2 Weapon of some sort costs 8,000 GP (Say Magic and Bane or Flaming for a +2 plenty of combos) because an In Concept "Holy Weapon" is a a +2 mod so you would need a +3 weapon costing 18,000 GP. You could go either way on this one as your PC probably won't take the Crafting Feats.

Ring +1 2,000 GP, Ring of Counterspells "Dispel Magic" 4,000 GP so your Summoned Monsters and other Spells Like Buffs are Not Dispelled.

Amulet of Natural Armor +1 2,000 GP (You can improve it to +2 after leveling)

Cloak of Resistance +2 4,000 GP (You can improve it in a level a lot cheaper with Craft Wonderous Items taken at level 12).

***IMO the Party should make a Pool for Critical Expensive Party Spells and Scrolls.

An assortment of Potions 3,000 to 8,000 GP (Mostly Level 1 and 2 of Useful Things that your PC normally cannot do or won't normally memorize Cleric Spells for which your PC can Duplicate with Divine Spell Scrolls Cheaper Anyways).

Things like Arcane Spells: (True Strike for when you really Need to Hit Something, Detect Secret unless someone has a wand, Jump, Feather Fall, Animate Rope, Expedtious Retreat Second Level things like Det Thoughts, False Life, an Emergency Rope Trick, Levitate, Mirror Image, Invisibility, Spider Climb Maybe a Level Three Gaseous Form

An assortment of Scrolls 3,000 to 10,000 GP Twice the Bang for your buck compared to a Potion Anyone can use. (An Emergency Party Reincarnate or Raise Dead could be useful if the party is willing to reimburse you for it)

Mabe a Bead of Force or Two.

A Hat of Disguise for 1,800 GP can be nice in some campaigns not completely combat oriented, Elven Boots Maybe an Elven Cloak Instead of a Cloak of Resistance Depending on the Campaign or a +1 Elven Cloak of Resistance for 4,500 GP.

Still Lots of Gold Left to Tweak as Desired.

******Consider a Fully Loaded Robe of Useful Items can be worth more than the 7,000 GP Market Cost Just by Taking the Gems Seven Times and Still Leave 3 to 5 Other Useful Patches in Addition to the Standard Patches. This is a Nice Way of Ensuring You Have Funds available to Enhance Your Magic Items Like Your Periapt and Your Pearls of Power at Level 12+

Maybe a Portable Hole after Leveling Up to Carry All Your Treasure.

Hope that helps.

Normally I might have a PC Specialize and take the Magical Artisan Crafting Feat and squeeze out a little more magic along with another caster like the wizard but it's not in the DMG so I would go with Craft Wonderous Item for the most bang for your buck and Scribe Scroll (Because so few Clerics can do it and the utility it grants you). You can only wear Two Rings normally and may never use a magic staff in game so I wouldn't recommend those.

__________________________________________________ _____________

Many of the Market Items above were Craft Wonderous Items so they could be made in game for half cost or made more powerful for a similar cost.

By Taking Craft Wonderous Item and Crafting after you start the game you should be able to get things like a +6 Periapt for 18,000 GP Cost + Experience while Bumping your Wisdom Up to 25. You can make a +3 Cloak of Resistance for 4,500 GP and a +4 for 8,000 GP

You can craft some Pearls of Power on the Cheap First Level for 500 GP Cost, a Second Level for 2,000 GP Cost, a Third Level for 4,500 GP Cost and you might consider a Fourth Level for 8,000 GP Cost.+2 Ability Enhancing Ioun Stones would Cost your PC 4,000 GP to Make. These benefit All Spellcasters.

A Block or Two of Incense of Meditation for a 2,450 GP Cost your PC can Purchase a Freebie Maximize for All His Spells if 8 Hours are Spent Praying (Can be good before an adventure)

[Lostintransit]

Wow so many responses!

Well lets just set up some of the more pressing issues (didn't have a lot of time yesterday)

First: This is for a Warlord campaign so only the PHB and DMG are allowed (The actual warlord PHB has had slight tweaks, but the easiest converstion is the cleric, hence picking cleric!!)

Second: I'm pretty sure i'm allowed DMG prestige but i will have to check...

Third: All magic users have access to the basic metamagic feats, so i could take extend etc!

Fourth: No i am not allowed to make anything until the campaign has started and as such i could spend none of my stating gold and then build everything.

Also thanks for all the help!

Keep em coming!:smallbiggrin:



Lost