Thrower Optimisation - Ideas?

[Teilos]

Hi,

first of all: Thanks for your help :smallsmile:

I have already created a human thrower build. Now I have some ideas, which I would like to include, but I do not know how to do that without hampering other abilities seriously.

Here is my build:

Str 14, Dex, 16+, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 10

Thrower Build
{table=head]Level|Class|Feats & important specials


1|
Ranger|Power Attack, Point Blank Shot, Track(Ranger)*


2|
Swashbuckler|Weapon Finesse(Swashbuckler)*


3|
Ranger|Brutal Throw, Two-Weapon-Fighting(Ranger)


4|
Fighter|Precise Shot(Fighter)


5|
Fighter|Weapon Focus(Dart, Fighter)


6|
Master Thrower|Power Throw, Quickdraw(MT), Palm-Throw(MT-Special)


7|
Master Thrower|


8|
Master Thrower| Defensive Throw(MT-Special)


9|
Master Thrower|Improved TWF


10|
Master Thrower|Weak Spot(MT-Special)


11|
Fighter|


12|
Fighter|Greater TWF, Weapon Specialisation(Dart, Fighter)


13|
Swashbuckler|


14|
Swashbuckler|Int to damage with finesse weapons(Swash)


15|
Ranger|Improved Initiative


16|
Occult Slayer|several antimagic bonuses...


17|
Occult Slayer|


18|
Occult Slayer|Far Shot


19|
Occult Slayer|


20|
Occult Slayer|[/table]

*no must-have

By level 12 this character has 6 attacks; with 2 darts each; against touch AC; with the ability to transform attack into damage. And it can do so in melee.

The rest is just flavour...

So here comes what I could give up in this build:
My group is not very optimised. But we have a good DM, who balances that with magic items. So the real power level is not that important. I do this here, because I just love optimising :smallbiggrin: This character can give up the occult slayer part and the bonuses to damage (Fighter and Swashbuckler) are also only secondary.

Important is that the character needs a few skill points at the beginning for his background and that he gains the bluff skill within the first 5 levels (and a few other social skills would also be nice).

The problem of the character are feats and skillpoints. So any classes or prestige classes that could give some of the needed feats would be great. Also a good thrower prestige class for humans after level 10 might be interesting.

An alternative (which raises the required amount of feats before level 6 by one (Exotic Weapon Proficiency)) is the exotic weapon master. That could give defensive throw and allow one other weapon trick of the MT.
One interesting other weapon trick is "Two with one blow" against multiple enemies. Together with a "skip rock" this could become devastateous.

But what I think might be more interesting is to take Trip Shot. It allows tripping with ranged weapons (which is the oponent of synergies for ranged attacks, I know; but it would give a little versatillity and options). Together with the first level feat (another feat :smallsigh: ) Jotunbrud and another special of the Exotic weapon master this could give a trip bonus of 10+Dex!, which might not be powerfull but nice. Ranged Disarm with quite bad values could also be gotten from the Exotic Weapon Master in that scenario.

I will start the character around level 5 and probably never reach level 15 (still I want to create a build, which would also be nice later on). And the strength is so high because this char fought with a Falchion before it started Master Thrower (backstory).

Hmm... I think that is all so far. Thank you for your ideas.

PS: If anybody wants to copy the base idea and wants to play it effective, go for halfling and take two level psi warrior (instead of the first level Swash) to get two more feats (one to account for not-human and one two get exotic weapon "skip rock"). This allows you also to go for Whisperknife. Forget about the combat control part, because it brings no synergies for a ranged attacker and is incompatible with halfling.

[Douglas]

If Tomb of Battle is allowed, Bloodstorm Blade is great for throwers. It lets you treat your throws as melee attacks for bonuses and special abilities but the real treat is that at level 4 your thrown weapons get Returning for free - except better because they come back fast enough to full attack with. Also, I'm pretty sure the wording on the thrown-as-melee ability is such that you can still use your Master Thrower tricks at the same time.

[Teilos]

I am sorry, I forgot to mention the books. I have no access to ToB.

I have access to core (PHB, DMG, MM), Complete (Adv, Arc, Div, War), Expanded Psionics Handbook, Miniatures Handbook and some Forgotten Realms stuff. For anything else I need a brief description and it is ofc subject to DM approval.

[Morgan_Scott82]

One of my favorite thrower builds is Half-Giant/Ranger/Fighter/Hulking Hurler/Master Thrower. Who said master throwers had to throw small light weapons like daggers? No one thats who! Especailly combined with brutal throw this guy can do very well, and for a hulking hurler build is still very tame by comparison to some of the things you can do with that class.

I'll see if I can put together a specific build along these lines for you to look at.

As for the build you've posted, why swashbuckler levels? Sure Int to damage is nice, but you're already going the brutal throw route to get extra damage, adding Int would require you to use light weapons, which have lower damage out put anyways and adds aspects of MAD to the build. If you were to throw Spears or Harpoons, or some other heavier thrown weapon and then sink any improvements you were going to add to INT into your STR you'll be better off in the long run.

I'll say it again: the assumption that the master thrower is always or routinely a knife or dart thrower overlooks a lot of the classes potential.

[Annarrkkii]

If you really want to optimize, Halfling Paragon adds free +2 damage that stacks with Weapon Specialization, if you take 2 levels, and +2 Dex, as well, if you take 3. Also adds in additional bonuses on athletics and another +1 to all saves.


As a human, I'd advice you to juice up a grade, as the above poster suggested, and chuck spears or harpoons. Heavier weapons with heavier criticals mean, unsurprisingly, heavier damage. Power Attacking a two-handed thrown weapon + delivering attacks as touch attacks = WIN.

Plus, a Quick Draw warrior flinging a steady Rapid Shot stream of a spears. Also, bizarrely, the Doubletoss trick makes no mention of the two weapons needing to be one-handed, only saying that normal TWFing penalties apply. That just means, with the TWF feat, that you take a -4 to each attack. If you're delivering them as touch attacks already, that's not a big sweat.

[Runolfr]

Why have you bothered with Brutal Throw when your Dex is higher than your Str? Brutal Throw basically just lets you sub you Str mod for your Dex mod on a ranged attack roll with a thrown weapon; I see no reason why this character would want to do that.

[Teilos]

I am sorry: For rpg reasons, this character has to be a human.

Unfortunately, it is palm throw not doubletoss, which allows me to double my attacks (the other one works only as standard action). For this reason the weapon must be small! I forgo also any Str bonus to damage. In return I have two weapons on which I can add the bonuses from power throw. And that is the bonus which will be the primary source of damage. Compared to that, the dice and the strength bonus are unimportant. If it wasn't for this, two handed weapons would be a great idea to reduce the feat requirement(no need for twf-feats).

Just to make this clear:
The build stated above will throw 12 darts each turn at level 12. Each of those darts will make 1d4+2(Specialisation)+1(Point-Blank)+x damage. X will be considerably high, because it only has to hit touch AC's. The primary attack will be made with 12(base)+4(Dex)+1(focus)+1(PB)-2(twf)=16-x.
So the attacks are
16,16,11,11,6,6 -x => average 11
Assume touch AC 12 => hit in 19/20 of the cases, if not using power throw.
Optimal Power throw: 7
This will generate an average damage of 97.5 (or 150, if all attacks would hit) without criticals and without any magic or magic items. And it will become constantly better as the BAB goes up, but touch ACs stay more or less flat. The weakness of this build is an enemy with damage reduction.

EDIT: Added Point Blank Shot into calculation.

[Annarrkkii]

Brutal Throw is a Prerequisite for Power Throw, which lets you Power Attack with ranged weapons, which is useful no matter how much Strength you have.

Though the fact that this character is throwing light weapons does negate the usefulness of PA somewhat...

[Person_Man]

Instead of or in addition to Master Thrower, the Hammer of Moradin (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040305a) is an easily optimized (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=607258)throwing PrC.

If you're worried about Skills, be a human and take the Able Learner feat. It makes all cross class skills only cost one point (though you are still limited by max ranks).

If you're wedded to having Bluff, consider putting Hexblade into your build. Hexblades get Cha to Saves vs. magic, Mettle, Bluff as a class Skill, and the useful PHBII Dark Companion. If you're really mean, you can also take levels of Blackguard. With double Cha to Saves, Mettle, and Evasion from Master Thrower, you'll be 95% immune to magic. Fighter 2/Hexblade 3/Master Thrower 5/Blackguard 10 is simple and strong. Take Leadership or Dragon Cohort to make your Fiendish Servant a flying mount. Ride around the sky, immune to magic, raining death on your enemies.

Alternatively, you could use the Paladin of Freedom for full BAB+Bluff.

Or Marshal (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b), which can get all the social Skills and a bonus to Trip attacks (but sadly lacks full BAB).

The Harpoon from Frostburn is useful if you can get one with the Returning property. The Harpoon automatically does the same damage coming out as it does going in.

If you go with the Harpoon instead of small thrown weapons, you might want to consider Brutal Throw, Power Throw, and Hurling Charge.

Brutal Throw allows you to use your Str instead of your Dex for thrown weapons, which means you can focus on Str, like any good combat build.

Power Throw is Power Attack for thrown weapons, useful since you'll be making touch attacks with your Master Thrower trick.

Hurling Charge let's you make a thrown attack in addition to your melee attack as part of a charge. This let's you throw things and make Leap Attacks together, the main source of weapon damage in D&D.

So, Orc Fighter 4/Psychic Warrior 2/Pyrokineticist 1/Master Thrower 5/full BAB class X

Throw in some Hexblade or Paladin of Freedom or Marshal if you want Bluff with full BAB.

Take the Headlong Rush feat. It makes all of your charge attacks deal double damage. Also be sure to take Improved Trip, so that you get free follow up attacks whenever you Trip someone (assuming you threaten them, which you should, given you're using a fire lash).

So, you charge, throw your Returning Harpoon into someone as a touch attack, make a Trip attack with the Harpoon, and get a free follow up attack from Improved Trip. Then you make your touch attack fire lash. Then at the beginning of your next turn, turn the harpoon comes out of your enemy and returns to your hand, dealing the same damage as it did when it went in. All your melee attacks should get the Leap Attack bonus. And all of your attacks deal double damage from Headlong Rush. It's like Pounce (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5305146), only more convoluted.

In the opposite direction, you could go Monk/Disciple of the Eye (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060106a&page=2)/Master Thrower/Exotic Weapon Master. Shuriken are small exotic weapons, capable of Flurry, Master Thrower Tricks, and EWM tricks. Disciple of the Eye stacks for Flurry, and forces the target to make a Save every time you make an attack roll or be Shaken. Fear effects stack. So if they fail 3 saves, they have to flee, which means you've basically won. Plus you'll keep knocking them down with Trip attacks even though they have to run away, making them easy targets for your friends attacks of opportunity. Between Flurry and Palm Throw, you should be able to make an insane number of attacks. Be a flying Dragonborn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20060105b&page=1), and you should be set. Just hope you don't run into any undead.

[Teilos]

One of my favorite thrower builds is Half-Giant/Ranger/Fighter/Hulking Hurler/Master Thrower. Who said master throwers had to throw small light weapons like daggers? No one thats who! Especailly combined with brutal throw this guy can do very well, and for a hulking hurler build is still very tame by comparison to some of the things you can do with that class.

I'll see if I can put together a specific build along these lines for you to look at.

As for the build you've posted, why swashbuckler levels? Sure Int to damage is nice, but you're already going the brutal throw route to get extra damage, adding Int would require you to use light weapons, which have lower damage out put anyways and adds aspects of MAD to the build. If you were to throw Spears or Harpoons, or some other heavier thrown weapon and then sink any improvements you were going to add to INT into your STR you'll be better off in the long run.

I'll say it again: the assumption that the master thrower is always or routinely a knife or dart thrower overlooks a lot of the classes potential.

First of all Thx for all your answers.

Hulking hurler indeed looks interesting. Esspecially the option to get Power Throw this way is interesting. Though I have to think, whether half-giant fits my character concept. Ofcourse it would add very well to the trip attack. All hulking hurler tricks are full round actions and do not work very well together with the idea of making damage by the use of a dozen attacks.

Swashbuckler:
It gives full BAB and social skills (bluff, diplomacy, sense motiv). Later on it allows additional damage per attack, which is nice for this number of attacks. Finally this char is lacking skill points anyway. So Int does not realy hurt.

Little thrown weapons:
Weak Spot: To attack the touch AC, you have to forgo Str boni to damage.
Palm Throw: To double your attacks you have to forgo Str boni to damage and use little weapons.
=> Power throw is only powerfull, because I use little thrown weapons. If you subtract those two specials from the Master thrower, there is not much left. Sure, defensife throw, Doubletoss and Trip shot also have their nice sides. But there is almost nothing left of the damage potential of Master throwers.

@PersonMan
You offered really a lot of interesting options. Unfortunately the dwarf does not fit in and it would be big weapons again. For the skill part, the swash already does give me the skills. I hoped with some luck to find a class similar to the swashbuckler, which just gives another special (some needed feat instead of weapon finesse would have been great).

Three levels hexblade are definately very nice, but I can't afford the charisma in this build (unless I get it from somewhere else during the gaming; then I might take hexblade instead of occult slayer and add two levels Paladin of freedom).

The harpoon based power throw build again does not let you add your strength to damage, if you want to use weak spot (attack against touch AC).
Btw., I could not find the harpoon, the headlong rush feat, the hurling charge feat, the Pyrokineticist or a fire lash.
I must admit that I did not completly understand your charging build.

The idea with monks and shurikens is nice, but I have to think it through a little more. It might be a little slow and I have to calculate, when it gets the feat combination to kick.

[Annarrkkii]

But you don't NEED your STR to damage with the harpoon build. The trick doesn't need STR to do damage. You just need Power Attack. Power Attack for all you can every round, and you're adding on 1.5 times as much (or more) as you subtract, from Power Attack. And the MAD isn't even that bad. You just need a 13 in STR.

[Teilos]

But you don't NEED your STR to damage with the harpoon build. The trick doesn't need STR to do damage. You just need Power Attack. Power Attack for all you can every round, and you're adding on 1.5 times as much (or more) as you subtract, from Power Attack. And the MAD isn't even that bad. You just need a 13 in STR.

Ok, thats good.

I still do not know how this build works. It would be nice, if you could give me some tips, in which books I find the missing stuff:
The harpoon, the headlong rush feat, the hurling charge feat, the Pyrokineticist and a fire lash.
EDIT: Found the stuff

[Wystrell]

Take a few levels in rogue. Then:

There's a class in Vile Darkness that increases your critical range while using a scythe from 18-20 to 9+ (that's over half the die worth of possible crits!), while also increasing the critical multiplier. Then:

Take a few ranks in Master Thrower, take Throw Anything feat, level in Thrower until you get the skill that increases your crit multiplier by one. Then:

Take the Telling Blow. With TB, after you've critical'd an enemy, you tack on sneak attack damage.

In combat, this means you throw a scythe at your enemies, and if your to hit is anything over 9, you crit them for what I believe was *5 damage. Plus however much sneak attack you get from Rogue afterwards. The only problem is getting your scythe back, unless of course you carry extra... or find a way to make the scythe return. However, if you've got any luck at all, you should do a significant enough amount of damage to be able to wait for the rest of the party to rip out the rest of the damage.

This is actually a build my friend is shooting for, but I thought I'd share it. Sometimes a multiclass can be... simple. :D

[Collin152]

Take a few levels in rogue. Then:

There's a class in Vile Darkness that increases your critical range while using a scythe from 18-20 to 9+ (that's over half the die worth of possible crits!), while also increasing the critical multiplier. Then:

Take a few ranks in Master Thrower, take Throw Anything feat, level in Thrower until you get the skill that increases your crit multiplier by one. Then:

Take the Telling Blow. With TB, after you've critical'd an enemy, you tack on sneak attack damage.

In combat, this means you throw a scythe at your enemies, and if your to hit is anything over 9, you crit them for what I believe was *5 damage. Plus however much sneak attack you get from Rogue afterwards. The only problem is getting your scythe back, unless of course you carry extra... or find a way to make the scythe return. However, if you've got any luck at all, you should do a significant enough amount of damage to be able to wait for the rest of the party to rip out the rest of the damage.

This is actually a build my friend is shooting for, but I thought I'd share it. Sometimes a multiclass can be... simple. :D
Throw anything? Why not just get a magic +X Throwing Returning Scythe?

[Annarrkkii]

@Wystrell: ...How to get a scythe to return? Perhaps the... returning property? Throwing and returning should do the trick. But the class you are referring to I could not find in the BoVD, and have only heard of mentioned in passing as exceedingly brokened. Doing x4 damage half the time is ridiculous, especially with the already huge input/output ratios on PA. That would make it ludicrously easy to deal titanic damage, and should be banned on sight. Also, scythes have a default critical range of 20/x4, not 18-20 as you seem to suggest...

I believe you are dwelling in a realm of slightly off-kilter 3.0...

At any rate, the two-handed thrower is a straightforward build. You can do him as a slightly more conservative, less powergamed build, in which you avoid any charging multipliers and stick to the basics. Use Weak Spot to make things a touch attack, and Brutal Throw to get Power Throw, which you use to deliver a heavy PA damage. Since you're throwing 2-handed, you hit home with a 1.5 the amount in damage as you put in. Now, depending on how your DM reads the rules, you can use Doubletoss to deliver two harpoons with one attack roll. The PA damage only applies once, but still...

For more exciting cheese, be either a Raptoran or an Orc. If you're a raptoran, no extra feats are needed beyond the standard Leap Attack, and perhaps some more esoteric ones, like Battle Jump from OA, and Raptor School from Complete Warrior, which involve doubling damage on a charge when you drop and adding damage when you drop, respectively. Then grab Hurtling Charge, fly up in the air, and then zoom down and loose a pair of spears for some ridiculous amount of damage. I could get more detailed than that, but it's really quite straightforward.

Alternatively, go Orc, and grab Headlong Rush, of the Wizards website, to double charging damage for extra AC penalty. With your attacks being delivered as touch attacks, you won't need Shock Trooper to keep your AB high.

[Runolfr]

Brutal Throw is a Prerequisite for Power Throw, which lets you Power Attack with ranged weapons, which is useful no matter how much Strength you have.

Ah! Much is explained.

[Person_Man]

For more exciting cheese, be either a Raptoran or an Orc. If you're a raptoran, no extra feats are needed beyond the standard Leap Attack, and perhaps some more esoteric ones, like Battle Jump from OA, and Raptor School from Complete Warrior, which involve doubling damage on a charge when you drop and adding damage when you drop, respectively. Then grab Hurtling Charge, fly up in the air, and then zoom down and loose a pair of spears for some ridiculous amount of damage. I could get more detailed than that, but it's really quite straightforward.

Why would you use Raptor School? Doesn't the Eagle's Swoop just add a max of 4 points of damage on a Jump charge? That's really a waste of a feat, in my opinion.



Alternatively, go Orc, and grab Headlong Rush, of the Wizards website, to double charging damage for extra AC penalty. With your attacks being delivered as touch attacks, you won't need Shock Trooper to keep your AB high.

Headlong Rush is from Races of Faerun. Not sure if its on the WotC site as well. I couldn't find it.

[Annarrkkii]

Mhm. Here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301)

Raptor School is lame. HOWEVER, that 4 damage doubles with Headlong Rush into a perfectly respectable extra 8 damage on all attacks for the round.

[Tor the Fallen]

Two levels of psychic warrior will cost you one BAB, but you get two feats (either psionic or fighter), two level 1 powers, a small power point pool, and qualify as a psionic character.

[Tach13]

If you were going to take a few levels of Rogue, then Sneaky Shot trick let's you add sneak attack damage to a thrown weapon. Not the best build maybe for your rapid shot look, but if you didn't have a Rogue in group it might kill 2 birds in one stone.

[Teilos]

I was trying to create a build, which uses the suggested strategies.

However, I encountered several problems. Maybe, there exist clarifications, which resolve them, and I just don't know them.

The Pyro-charge build:
You make ranged touch attacks with a fire lash. The final attack of a charge may only be a melee attack...
The fire lash must be already in your hand, when you throw the harpoon (move-action to summon, dissipates when not wielded). So you can only take a one-handed harpoon.
Hurling charge: [...] If you have the ability to make multiple attacks on a charge, you may make only one attack in addition to the thrown weapon attack. [...] How does this work together with the additional attack got by Improved trip?

Two handed weapons and power throw. Power throw only allows to transform attack into damage in a strict 1:1 ratio. There is no special for big thrown weapons.

Attacks:
Thrown harpoon 2*(1d8+x)
Fire lash attack: 2* (1d8+Str+x)
Mysteries Melee Weapon: 2 * (xdx+Str+2x)
Returning harpoon: See harpoon
Total (Assumption: All hit) 6d8+2*xdx+2Str+10x. If the problems can be resolved, then it will probably be more effective than my initial build, because it uses higher attack boni and can have a higher PA.

(As Sidenote: My characterstory stays human, but I am still interested how to create this charge thrower build)

Required feats: (12-13)+specialisations?
Power Attack, Brutal Throw(CAdv), Power Throw(CAdv)
Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (harpoon), maybe Weapon Focus (Fire lash) to enable fire lash for MT-Tricks
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (harpoon)
headlong rush(Races of Faerun), hurling charge(Mini), leap attack (CAdv)
Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
Feat requirements: Int 13, Str 13, orc blood

With all those feat requirements this build will kick around level 15.

Btw.

Though the fact that this character is throwing light weapons does negate the usefulness of PA somewhat...
Power Throw does not require the weapons to be one handed or larger.

[Person_Man]

Captain Ahab, the Pyrokineticist Harpoon Master Thrower


Orc

Str 20 (16+4)
Dex, 14
Con 14
Int 12 (14-2)
Wis 8 (10-2)
Cha 8 (10-2)

Wolf Totem Barbarian (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#totem-barbarian) 2/Fighter 2/Psychic Warrior 2/Pyrokineticist 1/Master Thrower 5/Warmind 8

If you can, use the

1st: Combat Reflexes
2nd: Improved Trip (bonus)
3rd: Point Blank Shot, Exotic Weapon Prof Harpoon (bonus)
4th: Precise Shot (bonus)
5th: Power Attack (bonus)
6th:Weapon Focus Harpoon, Headlong Rush (bonus)
9th: Leap Attack, Quickdraw (bonus)
12th: Hurling Charge
15th: Brutal Throw
18th: Power Throw

Tricks: Trip Shot, Two with One Blow, Weak Spot

Try to use the Whirling Frenzy (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedClasses.html) or Ferocity (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) Rage variants if you can.

At 1st level, you get an extra attack whenever you Rage from Whirling Frenzy.

At 2nd level, pick up a guisarme. Get Improved Trip as a bonus feat from Wolf Totem (screw Int and Combat Expertise). With reach+Combat Reflexes+Trip Attacks+Improved Trip, it will be hard for anyone to reach you in melee.

At 7th level, the standard Two Handed Fire Lash+Leap Attack+Headlong Rush combo kicks in.

At 12th level, the Hurling Charge combo kicks in.

At 16th level, you get access to Psionic Lion's Charge.

At 17th level, you get Sweeping Strike.

At 18th level, your full combo kicks in.

I'm too lazy to calculate damage right now, but it will be a lot.

[Annarrkkii]

Meh, the Power Attack feat says:




Special

If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#attackRoll). You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#unarmedStrike) or natural weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#naturalWeapons) attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#doubleWeapons) as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)
A fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/fighter.htm) may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.


And the Power Throw feat just says you can apply Power Attack to ranged weapons. So THF is better than chucking little knifeys.

[Person_Man]

Meh, the Power Attack feat says:



And the Power Throw feat just says you can apply Power Attack to ranged weapons. So THF is better than chucking little knifeys.

I'm not familiar with any rules that state you can throw any weapon two handed. Power Throw does not say that you can apply Power Attack to thrown weapons. It lays out its own formula, which just happens to be almost exactly the same as the Power Attack formula for one handed weapons: +1 damage per BAB sacrificed.

[Teilos]

Thank you Person_Man for this build. It is a nice charger build.

I am still a little bit uncomfortable with the formulation in the hurling charge feat description. It kinda contradicts the whole Lion Charge thing.