(help me) Build my character?

[Mindtour]

Hey guys. I'm a perpetual DM that has a chance at playing Pathfinder soon. I'll be sliding into the role of damage dealer for the party, with the restriction that I play a Paladin or variant thereof. (My own restriction as we're playing the Wrath of the Righteous campaign). This has led me to build a couple of characters, but I'm having trouble deciding which for different reasons. Would you all mind rolling up a character or two so that I can get a different perspective? Keep in mind that thee ore not terribly optimized, but I should still do above decent damage given the power level of the PCs.

First build is Paladin/10 wielding a buckler and Radiance (to 2-hand it when I want)

Second build is a Paladin 2/ Sorcerer 3 / Dragon Disciple 5 with the same equipment.

Our characters get the campaign bonus of +2 to one score, bonus feat, and all of the goodies that come with Mythic Tier 3. (Champion, in my case)

I have, in my opinion, a better backstory for the pure Paladin, but the multiclasser has better saves and stats. In essence, halp wat do.

[Xerlith]

You're kind of wrong. A pure-classed paladin is pretty much an awesome damage dealer AND still has awesome saves. You can do archery with a Divine Hunter variety paladin, or go two-weapon fighting with a straight-up Paladin 20. Or two-handing, why not.

Example of a 2WFer, without a breakdown (Citing a build I wrote up on Reddit some time ago (https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/38psv5/request_a_build_4/crx2zfm)):

Paladin 18/Swashbuckler 2, two-weapon fighting with a Rapier and dagger.

A 2-level Swashbuckler dip grants so much goodness: Free weapon finesse, Immediate Charisma to AC, Charisma to Saves (AGAIN! They stack, since Divine Grace grants a bonus equal to your Charisma mod, while Charmed life adds your Charisma mod. This is important and was FAQ'd this way).

So...
Halfling Paladin 1/Swashbuckler (Mouser) 2/Paladin+17.

Grab Two-Weapon Fighting tree and (possibly) Piranha Strike. Damages and moar damages. Put all your points into Dexterity>Charisma>Constitution. You're night untouchable at low levels and deal respectable damage at medium levels. If you can, snatch Deadly Agility. If not, splurge for Agile on your weapons. You also want your Divine Bond on one of the weapons and MAYBE burn two feats (Skill Focus + Eldritch HEritage: Arcane) to gain Arcane Bond and enchant your secondary weapon with that to save money. This poitn is moot if you have a crafter in the party.
Oath of Vengeance may or may not be worth it.

If doing a Mouser, which requires you to be Small (Which I advocate), you'd probably want the Fleet Of Foot Alternate Racial Trait. Low Blow and Underfoot (Mostly Underfoot, since your saves will be sky-high) are probably also worth taking a long look at.


For a 2-hander, take a look at (if 3rd party's allowed) a Zweihander Sentinel Warder dip, grabbing a few maneuvers and an ability to make "shield bashes" with your blade's pommel as an "off-hand" of sorts.

[Geddy2112]

Agree-Dragon disciple is probably not the way to go if you want a weapon, and you don't need three levels in sorcerer(or even to be a sorcerer). If you want to go dragon disciple, take a rank in bard so you can at least wear light armor, and get all of the bard buffs. I suggest a second level so you can get a versatile performance. You could go with dervish of dawn and have your paladin's radiance take the form of scimitar if you worshiped Seranrae.

For just a stock paladin, grab a big 2 handed weapon and go to town. Deck out in plate, charge big thing, smite if applicable, repeat.

[Darrin]

The "A-Game Paladin (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3407376)" might be a good place to start.

If you're going to go Gish, then the standard "Sorcadin" is generally:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

Is this a Core game? What sourcebooks are available?

[Mindtour]

The "A-Game Paladin (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3407376)" might be a good place to start.

If you're going to go Gish, then the standard "Sorcadin" is generally:

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8

Is this a Core game? What sourcebooks are available?

I'm trying my hardest to stick to Core, APG, UM, and UC.

I should have clarified: This character must be Human, and his scores are set. He started with:

Str: 22
Dex: 14
Con: 19
Int: 15
Wis: 16
Cha: 20

I'd like to stick with using Radiance from WotR since the Paladin is the only one in the party capable of using it to its full extent.

[Mindtour]

You're kind of wrong. A pure-classed paladin is pretty much an awesome damage dealer AND still has awesome saves. You can do archery with a Divine Hunter variety paladin, or go two-weapon fighting with a straight-up Paladin 20. Or two-handing, why not.

-snip-

I like your build. However, how can I be wrong in stating that one character I built has better saves than another character I built? I'm not saying anything is explicitly better than a pure Paladin, just that something I drew up has better saves at the moment. (Due to higher prioritization of Cha in the multiclass build with items)

[Extra Anchovies]

Well, you're playing in a Paizo AP, and I don't think Wrath of the Righteous is particularly grueling, based on what I've heard. Don't sweat the defensive numbers too much.

If you want to do melee, Xerlith's Swashbuckler dip is a suggestion I agree with. If you want archery, Divine Hunter Paladin 20 works perfectly fine. If you're constantly up against the same creature type (I've heard WotR has a lot of demons?), a two-level Ranger dip for favored enemy and the archery bonus feat could be useful.

[Mindtour]

Well, you're playing in a Paizo AP, and I don't think Wrath of the Righteous is particularly grueling, based on what I've heard. Don't sweat the defensive numbers too much.

If you want to do melee, Xerlith's Swashbuckler dip is a suggestion I agree with. If you want archery, Divine Hunter Paladin 20 works perfectly fine. If you're constantly up against the same creature type (I've heard WotR has a lot of demons?), a two-level Ranger dip for favored enemy and the archery bonus feat could be useful.


I'm trying my hardest to stick to Core, APG, UM, and UC.

I should have clarified: This character must be Human, and his scores are set. He started with:

Str: 22
Dex: 14
Con: 19
Int: 15
Wis: 16
Cha: 20

I'd like to stick with using Radiance from WotR since the Paladin is the only one in the party capable of using it to its full extent.

Emphasis mine.

[Xerlith]

"You're kind of wrong" was meant to be targeted at actually comparing these two builds. A pure-classed paladin outmatches the Dragon Disciple Paladin by far. Yes, you could arguably do some cool stuff with a correctly-made Paladin/DD, but surely not as a Sorcerer with only 2 Paladin levels.

You said your goal was dealing damage. Well, a Dragon Disciple with that spread won't be able to deal too much damage, because both his spell/caster level AND his Paladin level (for Smite damage) will simply be far too low.

For a Dragon Disciple, say, Paladin4/Arcane Duelist Bard2/Dragon Disciple 4 would maybe fare well, losing only +2 BAB overall, getting that +4 Strength and some Bard spellcasting before returning to finish up with the rest of the Paladin levels.

Also, better saves. For a 2-hander, this may actually be a quite compelling build, giving you that +1 to damage from Inspire Courage (perform management would be important, though), +3 damage and +1 to hit (+4 str, -1 BAB) from Dragon Disciple, a little bump to saves and a Bard spellcasting choice.

Youre stunting your Paladin spellcasting though, as well as your Paladin class abilities' growth (Smite Evil, Divine Bond, Auras, etc).