Justice League: Gods and Monsters

[dancrilis]

Kindof surprised there is not a trend for this.

Bruce Timm is trying his hand at DC animation again (and given his track record I am happy about it), releasing Justice League: Gods and Monsters next month with shorts released beforehand.

The first short can be found on youtube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpu6yPAFHrs).
The second short can be found on youtube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYSxN4ezhO4).
The third short can be found on youtube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOWLqnjFN64).

It is a re-imagining of things - deliberately in line with Green Lantern and the Flash back in the Silver Age (http://www.wired.com/2015/06/gods-and-monsters-bruce-timm/) so I imagine it will earn a fair bit of hate from purists (Batman is not Wayne or fully human, Superman is not Clark or the son of Jor-El, Wonder Woman not Diane or an Amazon - all are I believe more kill happy), but for me it looks interesting so far (as an else-worlds/imaginary story at any rate).

[Zmeoaice]

Hopefully this will end the barrage of crappy DC animated movies (JL War, Son of Batman, Throne of Atlantis, Batman vs Robin, Batman Unlimited Animal Instincts).

[Traab]

That was one heck of a short. Poor harley, there is a decided shortage of well figured women running around in lingerie, its a shame about her.

[Starbuck_II]

Kindof surprised there is not a trend for this.

Bruce Timm is trying his hand at DC animation again (and given his track record I am happy about it), releasing Justice League: Gods and Monsters this month with shorts released beforehand.

The first short can be found on youtube here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpu6yPAFHrs).

It is a re-imagining of things - deliberately in line with Green Lantern and the Flash back in the Silver Age (http://www.wired.com/2015/06/gods-and-monsters-bruce-timm/) so I imagine it will earn a fair bit of hate from purists (Batman is not Wayne or fully human, Superman is not Clark or the son of Jor-El, Wonder Woman not Diane or an Amazon - all are I believe more kill happy), but for me it looks interesting so far (as an else-worlds/imaginary story at any rate).

So it is like alternate universe Nightmare Batman from Infinite Crisis game. Is Harlequin a zombie or is the stitching by her neck cosmetic.

[BWR]

Well, I'm sold.

[Traab]

Im guessing cosmetic considering how the fight ended.

[Quild]

I imagine it will earn a fair bit of hate from purists (Batman is not Wayne or fully human, Superman is not Clark or the son of Jor-El, Wonder Woman not Diane or an Amazon - all are I believe more kill happy), but for me it looks interesting so far (as an else-worlds/imaginary story at any rate).
Maybe you should start saying that it is an alternate universe. Since purists should be used to them, I don't see any problem.


Hopefully this will end the barrage of crappy DC animated movies (JL War, Son of Batman, Throne of Atlantis, Batman vs Robin, Batman Unlimited Animal Instincts).
Not sure I've seen the first one. I thought the last one was a joke (from you I mean, it may still be a joke)...
Son of Batman and Batman & Robin were quite in line with recent comics. Except for Talia maybe.

[lord_khaine]

Well im certainly more sold than i have been on DC's material for a while.

After everything were more or less changed in the recent reboot, then i kinda lost interest in the new material.
But this seems to take things in a interesting direction. And i did actually like the ending.

[dancrilis]

Second Short is up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYSxN4ezhO4).


Holy crap was not expecting that - I am not an emotional person but that managed to hit a nerve.



Hopefully this will end the barrage of crappy DC animated movies (JL War, Son of Batman, Throne of Atlantis, Batman vs Robin, Batman Unlimited Animal Instincts).
Agreed 'Assault on Arkham' was decent I thought, other than that they have been subpar.

[DigoDragon]

Saw just the first short and... well that was darker than I expected. :smalleek:

Not sure what to think of a vampire Batman, but I certainly would watch a series based on an anti-villain Harley like this one.

[Traab]

Second Short is up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYSxN4ezhO4).


Holy crap was not expecting that - I am not an emotional person but that managed to hit a nerve.



Agreed 'Assault on Arkham' was decent I thought, other than that they have been subpar.

Agreed. especially after watching the batman one. I was honestly expecting an aggressive superman. Instead, this is a super I can respect. He was willing to do what he had to to save the city and more, but he clearly didnt want to. And he also tried to get littleac to control himself first. I was waiting to hear him whisper, "Close your eyes" to him first. No kid should have to have the last thing he sees be supermans eyes glowing red.

[t209]

Agreed. especially after watching the batman one. I was honestly expecting an aggressive superman. Instead, this is a super I can respect. He was willing to do what he had to to save the city and more, but he clearly didnt want to. And he also tried to get littleac to control himself first. I was waiting to hear him whisper, "Close your eyes" to him first. No kid should have to have the last thing he sees be supermans eyes glowing red.
That's way better than how Zack Snyder did in Man of Steel? As Nostlagic Critic said, the victims were too dumb get out of Zod's laser beam.
I am wonder if Snyder read Miracleman instead of Superman by mistake.
edit: Just wish Disney would stop trying to appeal their Cartoons to just kids and renew Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
Or make it Netflix exclusive, ala new season of Arrested Development.

[Pronounceable]

The Batman one was utter tripe. It's a devolution to the worst sort of Dork Age crap and Timm should've known better than to stir that pot of **** in this day and age.

Supes one is still a stupid "surprise" but at least that wasn't Edgefest9000. That sort of thing might get somewhere but Edgeman needs to get the **** out.

[Reddish Mage]

Maybe you should start saying that it is an alternate universe. Since purists should be used to them, I don't see any problem.

Somehow I don't think that's the magic solution to a very broad problem

[The Glyphstone]

This is definitely interesting. Like the others, I was expecting a vicious, cruel Superman after seeing the Batman short, but this is an alternate take on Supes I like, very fitting for a dark hero who's still actually heroic rather than outright anti-hero.

I don't expect to be impressed one way or the other by WW - I don't know anything about the New Gods other than that they hate Darkseid.

[Traab]

That's way better than how Zack Snyder did in Man of Steel? As Nostlagic Critic said, the victims were too dumb get out of Zod's laser beam.
I am wonder if Snyder read Miracleman instead of Superman by mistake.
edit: Just wish Disney would stop trying to appeal their Cartoons to just kids and renew Earth's Mightiest Heroes.
Or make it Netflix exclusive, ala new season of Arrested Development.

I never watched man of steel. I just meant that after watching the batman short I expected it to be darker evil rather than dark the way it was.

[SaintRidley]

One hit and one miss. Wasn't a fan of the batman one, but superman was good.

[LoP]

Agreed so far, Batman short was meh. I'm willing to be generous and say its just because its so short. There wasn't much new to latch on to, since this Batman is pretty much the same sort of stoic emotionless crimefighter we're used to seeing depicted - the only difference we see is that a) he's a vampire and b) he's willing to kill villains. But we already kind of knew that. And its pretty shallow stuff, honestly. The novel stuff I found pseudo-interesting was really how they depicted Harley (Oh man, its probably too late but it'd be great if Joker was a mental delusion, a voice in Harley's head, telling her what to do), but it wasn't that far removed from how Harley is usually depicted; just more grotesque.

The Superman short was great, though... even though it was just as short, it was poignant, and told us that this guy is still a hero - but a hardened guy who makes the tough choices and lives with them. He isn't without compassion, its just that the world he inhabits probably doesn't give anyone the luxury of being wholly guided by it.

Also, the Justice League episode where Batman confronts/comforts the psychic doomsday weapon Ace in a flashback always got me kerflumped... this was very reminiscent of that and I got kerflumped again. Poor Lil' Brainiac... Superman, avenge him!

[lord_khaine]

Yeah.. i were also really sold on this Superman, its the first time i have seen an alternative version that could be compared to the real man of steel at his best.

[Traab]

Agreed so far, Batman short was meh. I'm willing to be generous and say its just because its so short. There wasn't much new to latch on to, since this Batman is pretty much the same sort of stoic emotionless crimefighter we're used to seeing depicted - the only difference we see is that a) he's a vampire and b) he's willing to kill villains. But we already kind of knew that. And its pretty shallow stuff, honestly. The novel stuff I found pseudo-interesting was really how they depicted Harley (Oh man, its probably too late but it'd be great if Joker was a mental delusion, a voice in Harley's head, telling her what to do), but it wasn't that far removed from how Harley is usually depicted; just more grotesque.

The Superman short was great, though... even though it was just as short, it was poignant, and told us that this guy is still a hero - but a hardened guy who makes the tough choices and lives with them. He isn't without compassion, its just that the world he inhabits probably doesn't give anyone the luxury of being wholly guided by it.

Also, the Justice League episode where Batman confronts/comforts the psychic doomsday weapon Ace in a flashback always got me kerflumped... this was very reminiscent of that and I got kerflumped again. Poor Lil' Brainiac... Superman, avenge him!


Speaking of your spoilered part, I would imagine that this superman will be significantly less restrained in expressing his displeasure should he trace juniorac's existence back to the waller looking president lady. The more well known superman would float outside the white house scowling at her impotently as if to say, "I know it was you, I just cant prove it" This superman would likely be a bit more direct in punishment.

[Tiki Snakes]

Short One - Awful. Especially NotBat's costume (and the fact that his shadow didn't once match his actual silhouette) and the general "darker and edgier" thing.
Short Two - Another awful redesigned costume, another "we're edgy so no capes!" and shameless misery-porn plot-twist.

I'd probably give inevitable-short-three a go, simply because there's a kind of sick fascination with how that'd play out but there's really not much I'm seeing here to recommend me to the project beyond some great city-designs.

[lord_khaine]

I would imagine that this superman will be significantly less restrained in expressing his displeasure should he trace juniorac's existence back to the waller looking president lady. The more well known superman would float outside the white house scowling at her impotently as if to say, "I know it was you, I just cant prove it" This superman would likely be a bit more direct in punishment.

I dont think so, or else its a little unlikely they had a direct number for his phone.

And actually.. i do think i agree with the president lady in her choice to start up that project.
She would not have been living up to her responsibilities if she had not been trying to create a counter for the invincible alien casually floating around doing as he pleased.

[DigoDragon]

Short One - Awful. Especially NotBat's costume (and the fact that his shadow didn't once match his actual silhouette) and the general "darker and edgier" thing.

His costume really wasn't stealthy, with that big stripe down the front. Goggles were nice, but it's hard not to look good in goggles to me.
Harley was pretty neat though. She stole the short for me.


Short Two - Another awful redesigned costume, another "we're edgy so no capes!" and shameless misery-porn plot-twist.

His design reminds me of Hancock. I'm now expecting the pilot episode to start with Superman waking up on a park bench, and a little kit pointing out the bad guys. :smallbiggrin:


I'd probably give inevitable-short-three a go, simply because there's a kind of sick fascination with how that'd play out but there's really not much I'm seeing here to recommend me to the project beyond some great city-designs.

Maybe 3rd time's the charm?

[Kitten Champion]

Short One - Awful. Especially NotBat's costume (and the fact that his shadow didn't once match his actual silhouette) and the general "darker and edgier" thing.

Yeah, I don't get that. This Batman looks less intimidating and bat-like than most of the canonical comic designs. Aside from the pointy ears he looks more like Marvel's Machine Man than a Batman, which doesn't make sense to me when they have that whole Gothic aesthetic to play around with this should be an easy exercise.

Now this Superman didn't look much like Superman either - you could easily plunk him into another context and say it's some other character and I wouldn't bat and eye - but he did look like the grizzled worn-down hero they seemed to be going for... which is at least interesting as far as the characterization goes.

[Traab]

I dont think so, or else its a little unlikely they had a direct number for his phone.

And actually.. i do think i agree with the president lady in her choice to start up that project.
She would not have been living up to her responsibilities if she had not been trying to create a counter for the invincible alien casually floating around doing as he pleased.

Well she DID authorize the creation of braniac specifically to "keep superman in line" or however they phrased it, so its understandable that superman would be ticked off on multiple levels. One, he just had to kill a "little kid" to save millions of lives because they screwed up, and two, because the entire reason for lil brainiac to exist was as a potential counter for him. Im not saying the president is wrong to do so, noone wants to have an unstoppable potential weapon hanging around, im just saying this superman is less likely to put up with it unless they have some sort of hold over him.

[thorgrim29]

If you've got President Amanda Waller (at least I'm assuming that was her) stuff like that is going to happen. anyway I liked the Superman short a lot, the Batman one didn't leave a strong impression either way.

[Quild]

Somehow I don't think that's the magic solution to a very broad problem
What problem would that be? DC's multiverse allows some new stuff without breaking continuity. In others medias, stuff would be "non canon". With the multiverse, you don't really care as long as you're not told it is canon.


I've been watching JL:War yesterday. My problem with it was that it's another reboot. Too much introduction of characters. Not much plot.

[Zmeoaice]

And every character except Batman and Flash is an idiot or a jerk. When Superman and Green Lantern get I to a fight that destroys several buildings seconds after meeting each other, you failed as a writer.

Also The New Frontier did the whole introducing heroes and didn't drop the ball when it came to the story

[Kitten Champion]

And every character except Batman and Flash is an idiot or a jerk.

I was seriously wondering if the JL:War Wonder Woman was supposed to have special needs at points.

[DigoDragon]

If you've got President Amanda Waller (at least I'm assuming that was her)

Seems to be. I'm browsing around online and a few reviews list her name as president. Scary. :smalltongue:

In addition, this superman seems to be the son of Zod. Also scary.

[dancrilis]

I was broadly fine with JL: War ... sure Darkseid was robbed of all personality to instead be merely on the level of some natural disaster (the Justice League responding to an world threatening super volcano that is about to erupt and is already risking local lives due to comparatively minor initial element) might have been a better method of showing conflict and working together.

But the bit that really sticks out on it is the Crowbar that struck Darkseid down ... what?

I could accept it in the comic, magic sword, magic trident fine, not great ... but fine. But unless that crowbar was secretly placed there by the Gods of New Genesis as Darkseid's one weakness I think they dropped the ball.

It was certainly the best of a bad lot ignoring that (excluding Assault on Arkham which as mentioned I regard as decent so not part of the bad lot).

Separately I noted the trailer for Justice League: Gods and Monsters, nothing special and contains what I regard as spoilers so viewer beware and all that, it is here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxL1Iw73azg).

[Hopeless]

This is purely speculation but that's Amazo (bl&&dy spellchecker) and Lex sent it to kill the scientists because they helped to build it.
I'm hoping it will eventually serve as a power suit to restore Lex but end up destroyed or marooned somewhere where he can't get back to Earth.
Sorry to say I hope he kills the new Batman unlike Zod's son I see nothing heroic in a vampire if its just as bad as the villains he fights!

Sorry the above is a guess on my part, liked the second animation hope the third is better than the first one.

Sorry not a fan of that idea but the movie might redeem that notion (or not)

[lord_khaine]

In addition, this superman seems to be the son of Zod. Also scary.


Super cool subversion, while also having a great message in that it does not matter what your parents were or are, your free to pick your own fate.


Sorry to say I hope he kills the new Batman unlike Zod's son I see nothing heroic in a vampire if its just as bad as the villains he fights!

Excuse me... just as bad..? did you watch the same movie clip as the rest of us..?
the one with all the body parts..? the one where batman saved that young woman..?

[Tiki Snakes]

Separately I noted the trailer for Justice League: Gods and Monsters, nothing special and contains what I regard as spoilers so viewer beware and all that, it is here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxL1Iw73azg).

Hmm.
Having seen the trailer, I'm increasingly unsure in what sense the characters can even be said to be Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman. I mean, they're three entirely new characters with nothing really but the name and a couple of vaguely related origins in common?

It strikes me as a touch cynical to resort to linking them to the big three to make it shocking when they aren't even alternate versions of the same people.

[dancrilis]

Hmm.
Having seen the trailer, I'm increasingly unsure in what sense the characters can even be said to be Superman, Batman or Wonder Woman. I mean, they're three entirely new characters with nothing really but the name and a couple of vaguely related origins in common?

It strikes me as a touch cynical to resort to linking them to the big three to make it shocking when they aren't even alternate versions of the same people.

Like it or hate it that is actually the point:


That directive led him to think about the Justice League in a different way. “I started thinking about what DC did in the Silver Age, with things like Showcase, where Gardner Fox and others restarted the Flash and Green Lantern with all-new ideas and kept just the names,” he explains. So he set out to see if he could do the same for Justice League.

Those are the same Flash and Green Lantern that most of us today likely think of as the 'real' ones, but as mentioned in the first post purists are likely to dislike the changes - and that doesn't make the purists wrong they likely have an emotional investment in the characters, but it also doesn't make them right if these do become the staple of the characters (unlikely) than in 40 years the purists of that time will be upset if they are changing them.

[Reddish Mage]

Like it or hate it that is actually the point:


Those are the same Flash and Green Lantern that most of us today likely think of as the 'real' ones, but as mentioned in the first post purists are likely to dislike the changes - and that doesn't make the purists wrong they likely have an emotional investment in the characters, but it also doesn't make them right if these do become the staple of the characters (unlikely) than in 40 years the purists of that time will be upset if they are changing them.

What exactly is a purist anyway? Anyone who likes the older character, or just the guys flaming that changing the character is automatically illegitimate just for that very reason?

[Legato Endless]

What exactly is a purist anyway? Anyone who likes the older character, or just the guys flaming that changing the character is automatically illegitimate just for that very reason?

The latter. Any significant divergence from the current model is a sin, and God forbid you take a radical tonal recontextualization, because that is just blasphemy. It's either ignoring the fact that longstanding characters typically aren't the same they were several decades ago, or the acknowledgment that while it took a while for the character to evolve into what we know and love, anything experimental now is a downgrade from the perfection that is.

To be fair, sometimes it really is as far as popular opinion goes. But the self sustaining bubble of the internet makes it much easier to circle jerk your ideas, so it's more visible now than it used to be. The worst purists are frankly the ones who won't even countenance the idea that adapting the story to a different medium means some pragmatic changes, but that's not relevant here.

[dancrilis]

What exactly is a purist anyway? Anyone who likes the older character, or just the guys flaming that changing the character is automatically illegitimate just for that very reason?

Purist: a person who adheres strictly and often excessively to a tradition (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/purist).

Note that there are a lot of traditions being broken here so we will take three different purists.
Purist1: Batman undertakes his role out of a sense of Justice.
Purist2: Batman is not a killer.
Purist3: Batman is at his core an ordinary guy.

Gods and Monsters changes each of those to be:
Purist1: Batman undertakes his role out of a a hunger for blood.
Purist2: Batman is a killer.
Purist3: Batman is vampire.

Now the point of Gods and Monsters is to challenge the traditions and I can accept that and even enjoy it, but it doesn't mean that the purists are wrong to feel that it changes the feel of the character too much for enjoyment.

[lord_khaine]

Gods and Monsters changes each of those to be:
Purist1: Batman undertakes his role out of a a hunger for blood.
Purist2: Batman is a killer.
Purist3: Batman is vampire.

I kinda disagree with this, in my oppinion then its certainly not what we saw in the clip.

[dancrilis]

I kinda disagree with this, in my oppinion then its certainly not what we saw in the clip.

That one is based on articles on Wiki (and some other articles).


Batman is Kirk Langstrom, a scientist who has inadvertently transformed himself into a vampire in an attempt to cure his cancer, feeding on criminals to satisfy his hunger.


Now wiki could well be wrong but for the purpose of conversation on purists concerned with Batman's motives for his actions being a defining trait it might set off alarm bells.

Again I am actually fine with it, but given the amount of hatred I have for Bethsoft over Fallout 3 (and how little many other people seem to understand that hate) I try to at least understand where purists on other matters might be coming from.

[Tiki Snakes]

See, I think this talk about people being unhappy with characters being changes is a distraction. Because they aren't, at least not in the relevant sense. Harley was changed. Brainiac was changed. Our 'big three'? Entirely new characters, or mostly new characters anyway.

They aren't new versions of Superman Batman and Wonder Woman, they're just new characters who happen to be using those names. I could get my name changed to Wonder Woman if I wanted to, but that doesn't make me wonder woman and it doesn't make me the new wonder woman. It's just a name at that point.

And that's what we have here. These characters might as well have been given new names to go with their new concepts and identities, but by taking the name of the existing characters, they get to make this whole thing more cynically shocking. It's all just a little 90's.

[dancrilis]

They aren't new versions of Superman Batman and Wonder Woman, they're just new characters who happen to be using those names. I could get my name changed to Wonder Woman if I wanted to, but that doesn't make me wonder woman and it doesn't make me the new wonder woman. It's just a name at that point.
When Barry Allen entered the scene from Jay Garrick and Hal Jordan entered from Alan Scott** the same could have been said.

* (who was made a comic book character that Barry had read as a child and years later it as decided that he was from an alternate earth)
** (who never existed until it was decided years later that he was from a parallel universe)



It's all just a little 90's.
50's actually.

[DigoDragon]

See, I think this talk about people being unhappy with characters being changes is a distraction. Because they aren't, at least not in the relevant sense. Harley was changed. Brainiac was changed. Our 'big three'? Entirely new characters, or mostly new characters anyway.

If you take away the names, then yeah they really aren't recognizable as the big three they're supposed to represent.

Its almost like they were coming up with a completely new series, but decided to tack on familiar names last minute to try and rope in established fans of the DCAU.

[The Glyphstone]

If you take away the names, then yeah they really aren't recognizable as the big three they're supposed to represent.

Its almost like they were coming up with a completely new series, but decided to tack on familiar names last minute to try and rope in established fans of the DCAU.

This Superman is closer to the 'real' Superman than Red Son Superman is, based on that short. And Red Son is supposedly one of Supes's best stories.

[lord_khaine]

That one is based on articles on Wiki (and some other articles).
Batman is Kirk Langstrom, a scientist who has inadvertently transformed himself into a vampire in an attempt to cure his cancer, feeding on criminals to satisfy his hunger.
Now wiki could well be wrong but for the purpose of conversation on purists concerned with Batman's motives for his actions being a defining trait it might set off alarm bells.


Alright fair enough, the wiki does paint a slightly different picture then.

All the same, i do think the important part, the movie clip, shows an at least somewhat heroic predator, whose first focus were on freeing the victim, and who were visibly shocked at what he found in Harleys lair.
That he got a little snack afterwards is something i find really insignificant.

[Legato Endless]

See, I think this talk about people being unhappy with characters being changes is a distraction. Because they aren't, at least not in the relevant sense. Harley was changed. Brainiac was changed. Our 'big three'? Entirely new characters, or mostly new characters anyway.

No, because that argument is simply an extension of the previous one, save you've interjected that this was a bridge too far.



That he got a little snack afterwards is something i find really insignificant.

If you ignore the ugly costume, and remove the last 5 seconds where Harley gets eaten, this short would just be a generic Batman fighting an inexplicably edgier Harley. Granted, that last moment is a massive game changer, but it's not quite the in name only people are touting. VampBat moved pretty iconically when exploring the warehouse, rescuing the girl, and whatnot.


This Superman is closer to the 'real' Superman than Red Son Superman is, based on that short. And Red Son is supposedly one of Supes's best stories.

For another example, take Adam West's Bat versus Tim Burton's. If you stripped them of their names and put them in different costumes, no one would assume they're the same character. Or at least they don't have anything more in common with each other than they appear to with the Vamp. Michael Keaton's Batman shoots at people. With bullets. And has no compunctions against violently killing people. Including smiling smugly when he blows one up. Compared to West, who never went farther than smacking people around a little, and who ran around the city with a bomb doing his absolute earnest to make sure nothing, not even a family of Ducks, was caught in the blast.

[lord_khaine]

This Superman is closer to the 'real' Superman than Red Son Superman is, based on that short. And Red Son is supposedly one of Supes's best stories.

And i actually cant help but think this Superman is a lot closer to the "real" one, than the one we see in the new movies of the new continuity..


If you ignore the ugly costume, and remove the last 5 seconds where Harley gets eaten, this short would just be a generic Batman fighting an inexplicably edgier Harley. Granted, that last moment is a massive game changer, but it's not quite the in name only people are touting. VampBat moved pretty iconically when exploring the warehouse, rescuing the girl, and whatnot.

Im not quite sure edgier covers it, i do think this Harley were less human than the new Batman, or for that matter Superman.

[t209]

I hope that this series would remind Marvel to make mature superhero shows or revive EMH as Netflix exclusive (not to mention, crossing over with Wolverine and the X-Men and stop ignoring X-Men events or treating them like crap as in the main comics*).
*I mean that always bug me in comics, which the Avengers didn't even had anti-mutant hysteria despite Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch being one of them (not to mention, fear of mutants in a universe where superheroes were respected), the Avengers vs. X-Men (Innocent [mutant] children, attack them), or a invasion from hell by Madelyn Pryor in New York City.

[Lost Demiurge]

I have no sacred cows, only a lot of hamburger.

That means that I don't mind when people try a new take on an old topic. Best case I get something fun out of it that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Worst case, I get something I ignore because the old stuff's still good.

So I went into the released material with an open mind.

The first short... Eh... Not bad. Not what I was wanting, but I can live with it.

The second short knocked it out of the damn park.

I'm sold. Here's hoping Wonder Woman's episode is as good or better than Supes'!

[LoP]

Wonder Woman's episode is up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOWLqnjFN64), and is probably the least dark out of all three. I'd say its comparable to the Batman short as mostly an action piece, sans the dark shock-value; the Superman one is still the most emotionally enthralling and the best one in my opinion.

Definite James Bond/super agent feel to this one, with Kobra basically being the same, now with doomsday device in a Dr. No-esque mountain fortress. Hey, is that the QED from Crisis on Two Earths, aka, the giant Portal turret? Anyway, Steve Trevor is supposed to be the James Bond, but is in over his head until Bekka!WW shows up via Boom Tube - pretty much the same kind of dynamic as Diana!WW. No real explanation of the New Gods angle, or of how they are different in this universe; just Bekka!WW has a Mjolnir-esque retrievable, awesome looking sword and uses Boom Tubes like teleportation portals. The only real difference, and the one the short seems to be trying to highlight as the difference between Diana!WW and Bekka!WW, is that Bekka is clearly sexually liberated. Kinda of reminds me of Huntress/Question in Justice League, which I think did it better. Honestly, kind of ho-hum, but nothing turns me off and I'm interested in more about this WW. I definitely like the Kirby/New Gods look, more than Kirk!Batman's design; though I wonder if the trinity has a bit too much alien going on, assuming the New Gods are still aliens.

Oh yah, Giganta as big robot? Kinda dull. I had absolutely no real connection with Giganta anyway, and now that its just an inanimate weapon, even less interesting. Like I said, feels like a standard action comic book cartoon.

[t209]

Wonder Woman's episode is up (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOWLqnjFN64), and is probably the least dark out of all three. I'd say its comparable to the Batman short as mostly an action piece, sans the dark shock-value; the Superman one is still the most emotionally enthralling and the best one in my opinion.

Definite James Bond/super agent feel to this one, with Kobra basically being the same, now with doomsday device in a Dr. No-esque mountain fortress. Hey, is that the QED from Crisis on Two Earths, aka, the giant Portal turret? Anyway, Steve Trevor is supposed to be the James Bond, but is in over his head until Bekka!WW shows up via Boom Tube - pretty much the same kind of dynamic as Diana!WW. No real explanation of the New Gods angle, or of how they are different in this universe; just Bekka!WW has a Mjolnir-esque retrievable, awesome looking sword and uses Boom Tubes like teleportation portals. The only real difference, and the one the short seems to be trying to highlight as the difference between Diana!WW and Bekka!WW, is that Bekka is clearly sexually liberated. Kinda of reminds me of Huntress/Question in Justice League, which I think did it better. Honestly, kind of ho-hum, but nothing turns me off and I'm interested in more about this WW. I definitely like the Kirby/New Gods look, more than Kirk!Batman's design; though I wonder if the trinity has a bit too much alien going on, assuming the New Gods are still aliens.

Oh yah, Giganta as big robot? Kinda dull. I had absolutely no real connection with Giganta anyway, and now that its just an inanimate weapon, even less interesting. Like I said, feels like a standard action comic book cartoon.

Kirby senses tingling.
- pointy helmets.
- giantip metallic beings with glowing eyes.
- and Silverage Hydra Agents?

[Traab]

My opinion on the latest short. Meh. Cool sword, kind of interesting hints at the backstory between the two of them. Not all that exciting of a fight. I mean seriously, what kind of idiots build a gigantic robot, and dont give it any weapons other than its hands and feet? Its slow, since secret agent man was able to do at least a bit of dodging, it is short range only, and while its rocket proof, im thinking it could be taken down by heavier ordinance easily enough, or even just trapped.

[The Glyphstone]

I'm more curious how they fit that giant robot into that egg. It was big, but not nearly big enough for that Giganta.

[dancrilis]

I am most dubious about the Wonder Woman one - and weirdly that dubiousness is mostly because her outfit is somewhat distracting (in a comical manner), I am concerned that at serious scenes it will just be something I notice as humorous thereby detracting from the scene itself.

Still overall looks interesting.

[LoP]

Kobra aren't the smartest bunch. :smallbiggrin:

[Kitten Champion]

So, the difference in this universe is that Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor are *****?

Is Kobra actually a thing? 'cause whether HYDRA came from Kobra or Kobra came from HYDRA - someone really lacks imagination.

[t209]

So, the difference in this universe is that Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor are *****?

Is Kobra actually a thing? 'cause whether HYDRA came from Kobra or Kobra came from HYDRA - someone really lacks imagination.
Hydra came first (1965) before Kobra (1982).
Also here's the uniform, which is more similar to the one from videos.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/440px-HydraOrganization_Head.jpg

[dancrilis]

Is Kobra actually a thing? 'cause whether HYDRA came from Kobra or Kobra came from HYDRA - someone really lacks imagination.

Black Dragon Society (DC) per-dates Hydra (Marvel) per-dates Kobra (DC) which pre-dates the Serpent Society (Marvel) ...

You could likely fill in quite a lot of other somewhat reptilian sounding groups in there also.

[Dienekes]

So, anyone else watch that thinking "Why exactly did you give the giant robot tits? Is she gonna suckle her giant robot babies?"

[The Glyphstone]

This one definitely had a much more adult-humor vibe to it, along with the action. I could see the Batman and a Superman shorts being aired during a Saturday afternoon cartoon block, being both kid-appropriate and adult-friendly, but outright sex references and a joke about safewords as the punchline to the short were slightly surprising. Not bad, it's nice to see an animated series that, pun intended, explicitly aims for the adult market, but it did catch me off guard.

[LoP]

Glyph, out of curiosity are you American? Had an interesting convo with a mixed culture group, and generally the Americans found the sexual oriented stuff (Harleys look, the wonder woman quips) to be more surprising than the violence, whereas pretty much everyone else (Brits, Aussies, a Canadian and a Chilean) found the violence more shocking. Of course the Japanese among us found this all very cute and quaint, haha.

Agreed the superman clip could be a Saturday morning cartoon, since the violence is implied/off screen. The batman and wonder woman clips though would both not fly. But its not for kids, which is why I find all this rather fun to begin with.

[lord_khaine]

Glyph, out of curiosity are you American? Had an interesting convo with a mixed culture group, and generally the Americans found the sexual oriented stuff (Harleys look, the wonder woman quips) to be more surprising than the violence, whereas pretty much everyone else (Brits, Aussies, a Canadian and a Chilean) found the violence more shocking. Of course the Japanese among us found this all very cute and quaint, haha.

Im honestly a little shocked anyone could find time to focus on anything even slightly sexual oriented regarding Haley's look, considering what nightmarish things we found evidence off in her basement.

[The Glyphstone]

Glyph, out of curiosity are you American? Had an interesting convo with a mixed culture group, and generally the Americans found the sexual oriented stuff (Harleys look, the wonder woman quips) to be more surprising than the violence, whereas pretty much everyone else (Brits, Aussies, a Canadian and a Chilean) found the violence more shocking. Of course the Japanese among us found this all very cute and quaint, haha.

Agreed the superman clip could be a Saturday morning cartoon, since the violence is implied/off screen. The batman and wonder woman clips though would both not fly. But its not for kids, which is why I find all this rather fun to begin with.

As a matter of fact, yes. I guess my cultural experience biases are leaking through my posts. The Batman violence wouldn't be at all out of place for the cartoons I'm familiar with - even the Wonder Woman violence would be okay, since there was no blood despite all the sword-slicing and gun-shooting, but WW's jokes would not be culturally kosher for a cartoon property like Justice League that is traditionally marketed primarily at the kid/young adult market. So the medium of delivery contrasted with the content is unusual, even if I don't have any problems with it (which I don't, as mentioned).

Though I agree with khaine in that I didn't find anything remotely sexual about Harley - she's a character who always gets 'tarted up' a bit, so to speak, but this iteration of her was far more murderously deranged than usual, and correspondingly less 'sexy'. Very much Fan Disservice.

[DigoDragon]

I'm more curious how they fit that giant robot into that egg. It was big, but not nearly big enough for that Giganta.

Just a little British sci-fi technology. :smallwink:

[Traab]

The violence was a bit further than standard american cartoon fare. You rarely ever see people actually be impaled and pinned to a wall till they die. But honestly, its probably well within censor tolerance considering there was no blood. Even the safe word comment was probably ok, while people get strangely squicky over sex on tv here in the US, thats the type of comment that would probably be considered to go over the kids heads till they are old enough that its ok for them to hear and understand it.

[Tiki Snakes]

This one definitely had a much more adult-humor vibe to it, along with the action. I could see the Batman and a Superman shorts being aired during a Saturday afternoon cartoon block, being both kid-appropriate and adult-friendly, but outright sex references and a joke about safewords as the punchline to the short were slightly surprising. Not bad, it's nice to see an animated series that, pun intended, explicitly aims for the adult market, but it did catch me off guard.

It's supposed to catch you off-guard. The sex-talk/pre-occupation is the gimmick in the Wonder Woman short just like the "murdering the criminal" and the grizzlyness is the gimmick in the Batman one and the whole angst/steeliness combo is the gimmick in the Superman short. Though I'm sure they'll allow those traits to fade into the background more in the actual film.

[Legato Endless]

So, anyone else watch that thinking "Why exactly did you give the giant robot tits? Is she gonna suckle her giant robot babies?"

Once you become a cult leader, you too can put your minions to work catering to your unique tastes. Makes slightly more sense than building a giant lumbering gynoid for combat purposes.

[LoP]

Sneak peak of the second season of Gods and Monsters shorts, from Newfronts. Bruce Timm shows off the reimagined Green Lantern, Steel, and Mary Marvel (from left to right).

http://3g28wn33sno63ljjq514qr87.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/lantern.jpg

[lord_khaine]

Once you become a cult leader, you too can put your minions to work catering to your unique tastes. Makes slightly more sense than building a giant lumbering gynoid for combat purposes.

Well it were immune to conventional weapons, and it seems its main purpose were to ruin the presidents speach?

For that it seems pretty well suited.

[Legato Endless]

Well it were immune to conventional weapons, and it seems its main purpose were to ruin the presidents speach?

For that it seems pretty well suited.

That's a good point. Although that cycles into, you built a giant robot ton..disrupt the president's speech? I mean, that might be funny if this were more self aware.

[Dienekes]

That's a good point. Although that cycles into, you built a giant robot ton..disrupt the president's speech? I mean, that might be funny if this were more self aware.

Don't you understand? First they disrupt her speech. Then she looses favor with the people. Then she won't be a contender for next elections. Then you can try and take over America. And then THE WORLD!!

Perfectly logical.

But since that didn't work we'll have to think of a new plan for tomorrow night, Pinky.

[The Glyphstone]

Steel looks awesome and Mary Marvel looks pretty good, though I hope Mary is developed character-wise beyond the Sassy Black Woman (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SassyBlackWoman) that her pose indicates in that single still. They're going to have a hard time selling me on Green Lantern though, that guy is ugly.

Anyone recognize what kind of alien he is from the canon universe? That's obviously inhuman, but the Lantern Corps are infamous for their bizarre membership.

[Dienekes]

Steel looks awesome and Mary Marvel looks pretty good, though I hope Mary is developed character-wise beyond the Sassy Black Woman (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SassyBlackWoman) that her pose indicates in that single still. They're going to have a hard time selling me on Green Lantern though, that guy is ugly.

Anyone recognize what kind of alien he is from the canon universe? That's obviously inhuman, but the Lantern Corps are infamous for their bizarre membership.

Ehh, I wouldn't put too much emphasis on her position. Timm has a pretty distinct art style, and I've seen him put a lot of women in that stance.

Also, have the exact opposite reaction you have to the GL. But then, I like when my aliens look alien, and not pretty humans with some strange feature like weird hair/ears/eyes, or worse, people with animal heads. Bring me the ugly monsters.

[The Glyphstone]

I'm not as familiar with the artist as you are, so I'll remain optimistic then.


As for GL....it's not so much the ugly, I guess, as it is the fact that he's obviously inhuman. The Lanterns generally appoint a member from the planet/sector they live in to protect it, and while as I said they end up with some very, very interestingly diverse members as a result, I will need to be sold on a blatantly alien Lantern protecting the Earth sector.

[Dienekes]

I'm not as familiar with the artist as you are, so I'll remain optimistic then.


As for GL....it's not so much the ugly, I guess, as it is the fact that he's obviously inhuman. The Lanterns generally appoint a member from the planet/sector they live in to protect it, and while as I said they end up with some very, very interestingly diverse members as a result, I will need to be sold on a blatantly alien Lantern protecting the Earth sector.

Calling it. Martian Manhunter is also a GL. It makes sense, he's martian therefore from our sector.

[The Glyphstone]

That would be odd, but I could dig it. J'ohnn is an interesting character who doesn't get enough focus in a lot of media, in part because he's almost Superman levels of overpowered.

He doesn't look remotely like any iteration of MM I've seen though. I guess it could possibly be a very stylized White Martian.

[dancrilis]

It might be worth remembering that it is possible that there is no Green Lantern Corps, without knowing about the character other than image I would not be inclined to assume anything about them in terms of backstory.

[lord_khaine]

As for GL....it's not so much the ugly, I guess, as it is the fact that he's obviously inhuman. The Lanterns generally appoint a member from the planet/sector they live in to protect it, and while as I said they end up with some very, very interestingly diverse members as a result, I will need to be sold on a blatantly alien Lantern protecting the Earth sector.

Are the green lanterns not protecting a lot more planets than they have lanterns?

That would make it a little hard having one of the dominant race for every planet, and sells me on the idea of having an alien Green Lantern.

[Mando Knight]

Are the green lanterns not protecting a lot more planets than they have lanterns?

That would make it a little hard having one of the dominant race for every planet, and sells me on the idea of having an alien Green Lantern.

Lanterns are generally assigned to vaguely-defined "Sectors" instead of individual planets or solar systems.

[LoP]

If they are keeping the Lantern Corps concept (which is highly unlikely), it could just be that there is another alien species in Earth's sector and there's someone(thing) there that became the lantern.

Its more likely though that the Green Lantern corps isn't a thing anymore at all; that alien GL may not even have a power-ring or do anything remotely like the golden age or silver age GL's we're familiar with.

[Traab]

If they are keeping the Lantern Corps concept (which is highly unlikely), it could just be that there is another alien species in Earth's sector and there's someone(thing) there that became the lantern.

Its more likely though that the Green Lantern corps isn't a thing anymore at all; that alien GL may not even have a power-ring or do anything remotely like the golden age or silver age GL's we're familiar with.

Its also possible this guy is being sent to scout the area to find out if anyone on earth is worthy of becoming a green lantern.

[lord_khaine]

Or even more likely that earth was just not the center of its sector, and another intelligent alien ended having to look after it?

[t209]

Steel looks awesome and Mary Marvel looks pretty good, though I hope Mary is developed character-wise beyond the Sassy Black Woman (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SassyBlackWoman) that her pose indicates in that single still. They're going to have a hard time selling me on Green Lantern though, that guy is ugly.

Anyone recognize what kind of alien he is from the canon universe? That's obviously inhuman, but the Lantern Corps are infamous for their bizarre membership.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Black_Mary_in_DC_Countdown.jpg
I wonder how people will differentiated "black Mary" with the one from God and Monsters and the one in Countdown to Final Crisis (Marvel Family: DC's punching bag after lawsuit against Fawcett Comics).

[Quild]

I've seen Gods and Monsters this week-end and really liked it.

Even if you believe in parallel universe, an universe where everyone is slightly different is something kinda impossible (chaos theory, a small difference at some point should have huge impact in there future, looks like the différences with "our" universe happened really recently and simultaneously. It's not one triggering the others, so nothing to see with "Flashpoint Paradox").

But since it doesn't try to be that, I'm all fine with it.

It's quite an impressive casting here with sometimes some hard time to get who everyone is, but you can perfectly do without it, so it's fine.
I don't even know Bekka very much.

For the spoiler parts:
I wondered in the beginning what the plot would be. This Justice League is sure made of killers, but they don't seem to be BBEG(s) of this story. And indeed. They're more lacking some moralith rather than being villains, and that's fine. Kind of an "Expendables" team in the end.

I found it nice to see everything twisted. Bad guys as good guys. I wonder if Luthor is not more often in the good guys than in the bad guys now. I like when he's depicted as not so much a bad guy but someone who fears that Superman would be too powerful and size control. It's the same here in the end, but Superman is more what Lex Luthor thinks he is.

I didn't saw the twist coming. I should have, since Magnus is supposed to be a good guy. Why would he still be one here? His plan is quite lame however, not sure I get it. Let's resume.
He killed Tina out of frustration, jealousy and by mistake (Kirk never saw the difference, good job! There sure is a gap of between Tin and other metal men). He realized that if HE can do that, anyone can be a monster and he wants to "control" everyone implanting some nanotech in their brain through small boom tubes opening with precision in their heads without any other damages (:smallconfused:). For that, he needs access to Superman's ship. And the best way to get access, is... To massively attract attention killing the scientifics that participated in a research on how to eliminate Superman, faking "Tina's" death and almost his own. Then "Tina" escapes from the morgue and... Wait, ENTERS THE TOWER? to get him back on feet while he's about to die. So he can infiltrate and reveal himself to Kirk. The way Bekka stops the countdown is really really lame and consequences are that the ship is about to explode... lame as well.
I'm sick of stupid plans, but that wasn't such an important part in the end.

Characters personnalities were otherwise enjoyable. Herman, Kirk and Bekka are not all evil (it's not like Injustice League). I'm surprised that Orion was still a good guy in the end.

I think I got who most of the characters are in the end, but I'm not sure about:
- The guy fighting Bekka in the beginning: He's clearly a male version of Cheetah, I don't think there's much to dig here.
- The guy fighting Kirk... He is a kind of Bane? Reminds me someone but I can't tell.
- Who's the blue haired girl fighting Herman?

[BWR]

I really liked it. It suffered a bit with showing the origins of the trio as well as the main story, but other than that I liked how people died and how the trio worked together. It was good to see more Timm animation. I want more. I liked seeing the different takes on the various characters. The twists were twisty and unexpected, in large part because one is used to thinking of characters in certain ways. All in all, highly recommended.

[Cyber Punk]

I just saw this, holy crap! My views on them:

The Batman one was... pretty okay. I loved Harley, but that ending... when I saw that ending, I realized that I loved it.
Superman. A superman I can respect, who isn't a goody-two-shoes, and who isn't 'grr grr hate evil destroy'. One who's heroic while still willing to do what is needed. I like the character design, but the costume is.... meh.
Wonder-Woman. What changed, exactly, apart from her costume, her powers and her willingness to kill?

[Dragonus45]

I just saw this, holy crap! My views on them:

Wonder-Woman. What changed, exactly, apart from her costume, her powers and her willingness to kill?


A lot actually, its just not apparent from the short but she has a lot more going on. I just watched the movie itself and out of the three I think I like Bekka the most and she is probably the only one I like more than her normal counterpart.

That said having seen the movie I...

I felt that it was just a hair to far on the side of gritty. I did like the idea of the JL taking the kid gloves off when they went to deal with the terrorists but the death toll for soldiers at the hands of the league was to high for my liking. Although the line in the end about trying to clean up their act gives me hope for the future. In general I felt the kill count for named scientists was a little high without there being much need but I suppose that's the benefit of having something with a limited run like this, you don't need to bother saving people for later. Although I liked the way they played with the expectation that most people would have had with cyborg, I somehow doubt that they would manage to make anything out what was left there. Magnus being a villain was a pleasant if predictable twist, and one that I felt worked for the story as a whole. Also I really wish we had gotten some details about what has happened in the world so far, if only to find out about other possible supers running around the world and to get more detials about the history between Lex and Hernan.

[TeChameleon]

For the spoiler parts:

I think I got who most of the characters are in the end, but I'm not sure about:
- The guy fighting Bekka in the beginning: He's clearly a male version of Cheetah, I don't think there's much to dig here.
- The guy fighting Kirk... He is a kind of Bane? Reminds me someone but I can't tell.
- Who's the blue haired girl fighting Herman?


- Actually, I'm pretty sure that the guy fighting Wonder-Bekka is Ben Turner, the Bronze Tiger. Not a great redesign for him, but fun to see the character nonetheless- I've always had a soft spot for him ever since I was introduced to him in the Ostrander-era Suicide Squad. Oddly, despite all the other reversals, I don't recall any genderswapped characters.
- The big dude fighting Manbatman was Blockbuster II. Don't think he's ever had a big part in any of the animated series; he's pretty much just another Hulkalike, so no big there either way.
- The blue-haired girl I initially thought was Killer Frost, but the electric weapon has left me pretty sure it was Live Wire, a villain that originated in Superman: The Animated Series.

As to the movie itself... eh, without delving into spoiler territory... it was enjoyable enough overall. The plot was a little thin in places, and Bekka's backstory, especially, felt a bit 'WTF?'. And the big bad is someone they have been a little too fond of making into a villain- there seems to be a certain level of anti-intellectuallism in comics over the last few decades, with virtually all the hyper-intelligent heroes and/or team leads delving into villainy.

President Waller was fun, but woefully underused... I would've loved to see this universe's version of Task... Force... X... herpaderp. I just realized as I typed that line that we did- the opening fight sequence villains(?) were all members of the Suicide Squad at one point or another (I think...).

I do think that there was a bit more of a body count than really needed... would've been nice if a few of the victims had a shot at defending themselves, especially since quite a few of their mainline counterparts could've held off their attackers, or at least had a decent shot at getting clear.

[Dienekes]

- Actually, I'm pretty sure that the guy fighting Wonder-Bekka is Ben Turner, the Bronze Tiger. Not a great redesign for him, but fun to see the character nonetheless- I've always had a soft spot for him ever since I was introduced to him in the Ostrander-era Suicide Squad. Oddly, despite all the other reversals, I don't recall any genderswapped characters.
- The big dude fighting Manbatman was Blockbuster II. Don't think he's ever had a big part in any of the animated series; he's pretty much just another Hulkalike, so no big there either way.
- The blue-haired girl I initially thought was Killer Frost, but the electric weapon has left me pretty sure it was Live Wire, a villain that originated in Superman: The Animated Series.

As to the movie itself... eh, without delving into spoiler territory... it was enjoyable enough overall. The plot was a little thin in places, and Bekka's backstory, especially, felt a bit 'WTF?'. And the big bad is someone they have been a little too fond of making into a villain- there seems to be a certain level of anti-intellectuallism in comics over the last few decades, with virtually all the hyper-intelligent heroes and/or team leads delving into villainy.

This seems a bit unfair considering:

The guy who actually puts it all together and saves the day by getting the heroes and government to stop fighting each other is the smartest man on the planet. I don't think it really anti-intellectualism to have smart villains, they're kind of necessary if the villain is outplanning the heroes in some way.

[TeChameleon]

This seems a bit unfair considering:

The guy who actually puts it all together and saves the day by getting the heroes and government to stop fighting each other is the smartest man on the planet. I don't think it really anti-intellectualism to have smart villains, they're kind of necessary if the villain is outplanning the heroes in some way.

Hrm... not quite what I meant...

Smart villains aren't anti-intellectuallism in my books; I rather like having an intelligent villain, to be honest. But it really does seem that the vast majority of the 'good' characters that started their existence as some variant on the 'brilliant scientist/engineer/biogeneticist/whatever' type has had a period of at the very least moral ambiguity, with many of them moving past that to being out-and-out *****, if not straight to blatant villainy. Just to bang off some of the most prominent examples... Professor X (being a raging douche even more often than he regains/loses his ability to walk, which is saying something), Tony Stark (Civil War. Heil Stark!), Mr. Fantastic (Civil War again, of course, but there's an uncomfortable amount of stuff where 'hero' isn't exactly the best label for him), and, well, pretty much anything involving the Illuminati, Batman (that whole Brother Eye mess, his treatment of Spoiler, a big chunk of his interaction with... well, most of the rest of the DCU, frankly...).

Will Magnus being a ragingly sociopathic serial killer/Take-Over-the-World (OF COURSE!)-Type is just kind of par for the course there. From my admittedly fuzzy memories, even mainline Magnus has been portrayed as having some rather nasty sociopathic tendencies at one point or another.

It eventually gets to the point that you start to wonder if the writers just don't believe that you can be smart AND good. Kind of like how Quesada doesn't believe you can be married and interesting >.<

[t209]

Kinda sad that what Disney, Jeph, and MCU tie-in did to Marvel's animated department (e.g- Ultimate Spiderman, Avengers Assemble, Hulk, and upcoming Guardians of the Galaxy).
At least DC managed to put out some serious cartoons, with some *cough* mishaps *cough*.

[lord_khaine]

Professor X (being a raging douche even more often than he regains/loses his ability to walk, which is saying something), Tony Stark (Civil War. Heil Stark!), Mr. Fantastic (Civil War again, of course, but there's an uncomfortable amount of stuff where 'hero' isn't exactly the best label for him), and, well, pretty much anything involving the Illuminati, Batman (that whole Brother Eye mess, his treatment of Spoiler, a big chunk of his interaction with... well, most of the rest of the DCU, frankly

Not going to spoiler this since it dont contain any direct spoilers, but Civil War is such a massive cluster**** that i dont really think its fair to hold what went on there against any of those heroes mentioned there.
Its like the poster child for character derailment.

[Quild]

- The blue-haired girl I initially thought was Killer Frost, but the electric weapon has left me pretty sure it was Live Wire, a villain that originated in Superman: The Animated Series.

Right, could be! Didn't think at her. I had a thought for Killer Frost too but she would have been facing Batman rather than Superman.

Regarding scientist counterparts:
I agree that it's weird to see them slaughtered that way. It seems the events happen some years before the timeline we're used too.

Maybe Nora Fries incident didn't happened at all in this universe, so no Freezer at all. Victor Fries sure is something else entirely (it's a villain I feel sympathy for. I remember an anime or comic where Batman says that Victor is living a fantasy and only met Nora while she was already frozen, hated it).
Ray Palmer does not seem to be Atom yet.
Victor Stone is quite young, too soon for Cyborg.

No Bumblebee.
Doctor Sivana can't stand long when facing something else than the Marvel Family.

[Dienekes]

Right, could be! Didn't think at her. I had a thought for Killer Frost too but she would have been facing Batman rather than Superman.

Regarding scientist counterparts:
I agree that it's weird to see them slaughtered that way. It seems the events happen some years before the timeline we're used too.

Maybe Nora Fries incident didn't happened at all in this universe, so no Freezer at all. Victor Fries sure is something else entirely (it's a villain I feel sympathy for. I remember an anime or comic where Batman says that Victor is living a fantasy and only met Nora while she was already frozen, hated it).
Ray Palmer does not seem to be Atom yet.
Victor Stone is quite young, too soon for Cyborg.

No Bumblebee.
Doctor Sivana can't stand long when facing something else than the Marvel Family.

The Fries never knew Nora and is obsessing over a fantasy is the version from the New 52.

I dislike the version from the New 52.

Anyway on the actual movie:

I liked it, and enjoyed a few nods to how characters we know are doing different things or have completely changed.

There are some subtle ones, such as the idea that Kirk, Magnus, and the girlfriend (whose name escapes me) got high off of Pamela Isley's homegrown weed at their party.

Also, thank you Timm for giving me the mental image of Amanda Waller being "positively orgasmic" about something.

So Michael C Hall is playing a socially inept loner who has a constant urge to kill and an obsession with blood. It's nice to see him branching out with his acting roles.

I also see Timm is a fan of ASOIAF, and stole some notes from the Red Wedding.

As to the whole thing, I liked it, as far as the darker timeline and twisted takes on the core superheroes of DC we all know this one was far more enjoyable (and much better animated) than The Flashpoint Paradox.

That said there were some head scratching moments, such as why Magnus asked Kirk to investigate the death of their friend? That just set Kirk on the path to figure out Magnus's plan.

Why did Superman and Bekka think it was a good idea to go slaughter the US army to prove their innocence, when they have an apparently completely impenetrable fortress?

On other news about DC animated movies

Timm announced that he's producing The Killing Joke! Mark Hamill has expressed desire to reprise his role as the Joker! This is awesome!

[lord_khaine]

I dislike the version from the New 52.

I have funny enough not yet heard anything positive about New 52



That said there were some head scratching moments, such as why Magnus asked Kirk to investigate the death of their friend? That just set Kirk on the path to figure out Magnus's plan.

But Kirk newer figured out anything until it was to late. And Magnus needed the Justice League to save him so that they could take him into their tower.


Why did Superman and Bekka think it was a good idea to go slaughter the US army to prove their innocence, when they have an apparently completely impenetrable fortress?

We dont know how long the force field could be held up at that level, but the main explanation is most likely arrogance, Superman were going to face down the charges, and did also want to explain he had a witness in custody that could prove his innocence.
He were just not accounting for how trigger happy the US army were, or that their weapon could actually hurt him.

[Dienekes]

I have funny enough not yet heard anything positive about New 52

I'm sure there are some good stories, Death of the Family had some certainly interesting and creepy moments, but a lot of character rewriting to get it done. I've heard Constantine was good

But a lot of the just little things that they changed were often dumb.





But Kirk newer figured out anything until it was to late. And Magnus needed the Justice League to save him so that they could take him into their tower.



We dont know how long the force field could be held up at that level, but the main explanation is most likely arrogance, Superman were going to face down the charges, and did also want to explain he had a witness in custody that could prove his innocence.
He were just not accounting for how trigger happy the US army were, or that their weapon could actually hurt him.



1) This could be accomplished with a phone call.

2) Supes was pretty dumb then, since they were clearly warned that the weapons they had could hurt them. And the bit that they called attack helicopters and tanks should have clued him off that this was serious.

[lord_khaine]

1) This could be accomplished with a phone call.

2) Supes was pretty dumb then, since they were clearly warned that the weapons they had could hurt them. And the bit that they called attack helicopters and tanks should have clued him off that this was serious.

1) it could clearly also be accomplished by making sure Kirk were lurking around :smalltongue:
2) Pretty dumb?
Perhaps more to optimistic regarding the army's ability to rub 2 brain cells together and actually get a result. When you come out to negotiate getting shoot at is not an expected result.

[Quild]

1) What disturbs me is that Magnus' plan involves barely surviving the fire and have Supes noticing the heartbeat and mentionning it. I missed how Magnus is certain that he will survive until Tina's intervention.
But that disturbs me far less than the fact that Tina and the other metal men are later able to enter the tower without any help in order to proceed to the next phase of the plan, involving, saving Magnus through nanites he probably never tested before on himself or another human.

About Tina:
AFAIK, Will Magnus isn't usually married.
Tina is a convenient name for someone who's going to be impersonated by Platinum in the end.
I think that her fondness for Kirk is due to the fact that she's based on Francine Langstrom. How do I figure? She's blond. Yup, that's all I've got here.
I'm not very fond of this replacement. Will got mad at the real Tina because she cared too much about Kirk, but the replacement one acts the very same. Couldn't he get her to get mad at Kirk for a false pretext? Or tell her that he can smoke his pipe if he wants to for that matter?
I find also misleading that we see Tin as a low tech robot and the other metalmen as builders in a bottle (one year before Tina's incident IIRC). Makes it quite hard to figure Magnus implication. I can't tell if it's good or terrible :D

[Dienekes]

1) it could clearly also be accomplished by making sure Kirk were lurking around :smalltongue:
2) Pretty dumb?
Perhaps more to optimistic regarding the army's ability to rub 2 brain cells together and actually get a result. When you come out to negotiate getting shoot at is not an expected result.




Yes, it can be accomplished his way. But the "use a phone" solution has the benefit of 0% chance of being caught as opposed to his slightly above 0%.

There was a warrant out for their arrest. The president had just announced they would be treated as any other citizen. You don't get to say "Ok, I see you want to arrest me, but let me just negotiate that with you."

[Quild]

Still "1)" To be fair, visitors seems to be a very rare thing in the tower. Or is it only the press?
Maybe Kirk would be willing to let Magnus have an access to the tower if Magnus feels unsafe outside, but what about Bekka and Herman?
Also if this access is limited to a secure zone, that doesn't help Magnus at all.
He would need the Metal Men to magically enter the tower and help him to have full access. Oh, wait.

[Ranxerox]

I have funny enough not yet heard anything positive about New 52



Brian Azzarello run on Wonder Woman was good and Cameron Stewart's run on Batgirl has been good. There has been other good stuff in the New 52 but a lot of it never found much of an audience and got cancelled after the first couple story arcs.

[BWR]

I have funny enough not yet heard anything positive about New 52


My gf got into Supergirl and Batgirl and thinks they're both good. She didn't read any superhero comics before that so she doesn't really have anything to compare with, but at least from the perspective of an almost total superhero newb, the new 52 worked for those characters.

[The Troubadour]

I have funny enough not yet heard anything positive about New 52

I liked the new version of "Amethyst". It had very little to do with the original and I feel strongly about reusing a name only for "brand recognition" purposes, but judging on its own, it was a very fun read, with interesting setting and characters. Shame it got cancelled.
I also liked the reinvention of "Beowulf" in the same comic ("Swords of Sorcery"). The "Stalker" reinvention was terrible, though.

[Giggling Ghast]

I never thought I'd see the day ...

...where the freaking Metal Men were villains.

Were those nipples on Titanium? Yeesh, animators. Yeesh.

Anyways, I quite enjoyed this movie. It provoked a lot of gasps. One thing I dislike about DC's more recent animated fare like Justice League: War is that they've just telling the same stories with now-lethal versions of the same heroes. G&M is a different story with different heroes and it was a pretty decent plot. Good action, well-paced.

Besides the fairly graphic violence, I was also surprised to see things like references to God. That's something other animated movies have avoided.

Regarding the Evil Plan:

I assume Magnus framed the Justice League not only to gain access to the tower, but also to lock the other members of the League outside.

[TeChameleon]

Regarding the Evil Plan:

I assume Magnus framed the Justice League not only to gain access to the tower, but also to lock the other members of the League outside.
Well, that and to keep the people most likely to figure out and be able to stop his plan- the government and the League- occupied fighting each other, rather than, y'know, figuring things out and stopping him.

... speaking of which, am I the only one who's faintly annoyed that even with a version of the League that's not the usual characters behind the cowls, it still somehow ends up being all about Batman..?

[Quild]

Well, that and to keep the people most likely to figure out and be able to stop his plan- the government and the League- occupied fighting each other, rather than, y'know, figuring things out and stopping him.

... speaking of which, am I the only one who's faintly annoyed that even with a version of the League that's not the usual characters behind the cowls, it still somehow ends up being all about Batman..?

And then, he exposes the plan to Kirk, because that's what villains do!
The thing is that he wouldn't have need a distraction if he had not attracted that much attention in the first place. His metal men seems to be able to infiltrate the tower freely, he, himself, could maybe have had access through Kirk without rising attention (for some researches, maybe). And he doesn't need much time to get through his work.

No really, I think that this plan is unecessary complicated.


About Batman, I guess the somehow is important. Herman and Bekka have their parts of the movie as well. Bekka's back story is even more interesting than Kirk's one. Kirk managed to defeat Magnus IIRC, but Bekka is the one who destroyed the bomb (could have been ugly) and Herman sent it into space.

I'm batfan enough that I don't mind him saving the day in any parallel universe though.

[TheEmerged]

Well, the comic tie-ins have been mixed. The Batman one stunk - and that's being polite. The Superman one was actually pretty good - not Red Son good, but still a decent "What if someone else found SuperBaby?" story. I do wish they'd have spent less time on the "This is how he screwed up" part of the story and more on the "He asks hard questions and doesn't like the answers" part, though. I'm not saying I exactly *like* this Superman, but it was a good enough read that I didn't throw it away the way I did the Batman one. I suppose I may pick up this DvD after all...

[t209]

Well, read Superman's origin on tie-in.
I think I may mistaken Superman is Zod's son as Zod personally raising Superman in Mexico, instead of Superman raised by Mexican Kents.
Also,
http://www.cracked.com/photoplasty_265_if-heros-timing-had-been-slightly-off_p3/
Kinda foreshadowy on #1, isn't it?
edit: I just realized that GAM's Batman was supposed to be Man-Bat.

[Clertar]

They will make a 10-episode second season of this version of the Justice League. Looking forward.

I don't know if it's sad or good that this is the only DC thing that has a chance of being as watchable as the Marvel shows on Netflix :smalleek:

[dancrilis]

They will make a 10-episode second season of this version of the Justice League. Looking forward.

I don't know if it's sad or good that this is the only DC thing that has a chance of being as watchable as the Marvel shows on Netflix :smalleek:

I don't know - iZombie is grand, Gotham is decent, Teen Titans GO is in some ways hilarious (if you enjoy that irreverent humour - which I do).
Flash and Arrow are watchable (though a bit meh in my view).

But yes another cartoon from DC would be good - hopefully one that completes without being cancelled, and Gods and Monsters is a good place to explore new ground for that.

[t209]

Just imagining,
do you wonder if the black Mary Marvel might be Darla from New 52? I mean they tend to use the already existing character but with a twist.
Not to mention that Black Adam might be Billy Batson as a criticism to his new 52 incarnation.