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Maglubiyet
2015-06-09, 05:28 PM
This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?420007-Modern-War-and-Centaurs-An-Obsolete-Race&p=19374984#post19374984) got me thinking...

What exactly is in the human torso part of a centaur? Heart, lungs, digestive system? Or are those in the horse part? It seems to have two spines and rib cages -- does it have two of everything else inside? Also...two belly buttons?

Metabolically, how could that small mouth and nose provide enough food and oxygen to that massive body? How do those little human teeth withstand the massive amounts of grinding necessary to feed it?

So many questions!

Keltest
2015-06-09, 05:32 PM
Magic.

Alternatively they actually have a gaping maw in their human torso that they consume large quantities of meat with, which goes into the digestive system in their horse body. They just eat, like, porridge or something in front of outsiders so they don't squick them out.

Eisenheim
2015-06-09, 05:35 PM
C. S. Lewis indicates in The Horse and his Boy that they have 2 stomachs, and must thus eat two of each meal. Take that for what you will, as it is essentially a fairytale reality, rather than whatever the fantasy equivalent of hard sci-fi is.

I don't thin the original greek myths that gave us centaurs concerned themselves overmuch with the biology of the thing.

Keltest
2015-06-09, 05:42 PM
C. S. Lewis indicates in The Horse and his Boy that they have 2 stomachs, and must thus eat two of each meal. Take that for what you will, as it is essentially a fairytale reality, rather than whatever the fantasy equivalent of hard sci-fi is.

I don't thin the original greek myths that gave us centaurs concerned themselves overmuch with the biology of the thing.

Sure they did. They were wine-powered.

Mr Beer
2015-06-09, 05:57 PM
John Varley's Giaia trilogy has centaurs in a sci-fi setting. Not sure about the answers to all of these questions but the 'human' half was oversized, built on an heroic scale. I think they ate a lot as well and had excellent dentition. Varley went into extensive detail about their physiology and society, but roughly 80% of the detail concerned their vigorous sex-lives and exactly why human-centaur sex was a thing. Or maybe that's just the 80% that I remember.

Mr. Mask
2015-06-09, 05:58 PM
Is mouth size an issue? Flamingoes subsist off cyanobacteria and algae, and their beaks and filtering system isn't that large. If centaurs eat very large meals every day or so, or spend all their time foraging like many animals have to, they'll probably be OK (though they might have horse teeth).

For nostrils, they might need to breath through their mouths a lot, or just have very large nostrils. Though, if they have four lungs.... they probably have very strong breath (from drinking, too).

Maglubiyet
2015-06-09, 06:21 PM
Is mouth size an issue? Flamingoes subsist off cyanobacteria and algae, and their beaks and filtering system isn't that large.

A flamingo isn't a very good example -- they are thin, lightweight animals, maybe 5-7kg, and their bills are huge compared to their body.

Horse-sized centaurs would be in the neighborhood of 400+kg...with a mouth smaller than a flamingo's.


John Varley's Giaia trilogy has centaurs in a sci-fi setting. Not sure about the answers to all of these questions but the 'human' half was oversized, built on an heroic scale. I think they ate a lot as well and had excellent dentition. Varley went into extensive detail about their physiology and society, but roughly 80% of the detail concerned their vigorous sex-lives and exactly why human-centaur sex was a thing. Or maybe that's just the 80% that I remember.

lol, I'll have to look for this one.

MrStabby
2015-06-09, 06:35 PM
Ratio of mouth size to mass shouldnt be an issue. Compare elephants or even whales. They may need particularly high energy foods though to maintain body mass - but that explains the wine and feasting.

Anonymouswizard
2015-06-09, 06:47 PM
First off, the title makes no sense. Or doesn't make any sense.


What exactly is in the human torso part of a centaur? Heart, lungs, digestive system? Or are those in the horse part? It seems to have two spines and rib cages -- does it have two of everything else inside? Also...two belly buttons?

Shrug. Search me.


Metabolically, how could that small mouth and nose provide enough food and oxygen to that massive body? How do those little human teeth withstand the massive amounts of grinding necessary to feed it?

So many questions!

If you unzip the front of the horse the human half can step out.

Mr. Mask
2015-06-09, 06:52 PM
Beer: Do they have dual genitalia in this setting?


A flamingo isn't a very good example -- they are thin, lightweight animals, maybe 5-7kg, and their bills are huge compared to their body.

Horse-sized centaurs would be in the neighborhood of 400+kg...with a mouth smaller than a flamingo's. Again, they're eating algae and cyanobacteria. Their beak's sifting surface area is the only relevant value for their "mouth" in this context, and that isn't so large as you seem to give credit for.

JAL_1138
2015-06-09, 06:54 PM
The same way dragons fly and giant bugs exist in such settings?

Or perhaps their physiology is radically different at a cellular level allowing them to derive far more nutrients and store much more water from the same intake than a human or horse; plus their lungs are extremely efficient.

Maglubiyet
2015-06-09, 09:39 PM
The same way dragons fly and giant bugs exist in such settings?

I refuse to go this route! Dragons get pages and pages of explanatory text trying to justify how something so obviously biologically impossible could exist. Centaurs, on the other hand, always seem to get a pass -- they're "normal enough" that they try to slip them past us.

Yeah, sure, a horse guy...no problem. No! I'm putting my foot down on this one. I've seen x-rays* and anatomy diagrams of illithids, griffins, and even beholders (BEHOLDERS!) It's time for the centaur-fancier crowd to put up or shut up.

That Gaia series that Mr. Beer mentioned is one of the few exceptions I've heard of where someone actually tries to explain centaur biology.

EDIT: * that would be really cool if someone has an x-ray of a centaur. It would expose them as the impossible beasts that they are. Those tricky Ancient Greeks can't pull one over on me!

JAL_1138
2015-06-09, 10:18 PM
I refuse to go this route! Dragons get pages and pages of explanatory text trying to justify how something so obviously biologically impossible could exist. Centaurs, on the other hand, always seem to get a pass -- they're "normal enough" that they try to slip them past us.

Yeah, sure, a horse guy...no problem. No! I'm putting my foot down on this one. I've seen x-rays* and anatomy diagrams of illithids, griffins, and even beholders (BEHOLDERS!) It's time for the centaur-fancier crowd to put up or shut up.

That Gaia series that Mr. Beer mentioned is one of the few exceptions I've heard of where someone actually tries to explain centaur biology.

EDIT: * that would be really cool if someone has an x-ray of a centaur. It would expose them as the impossible beasts that they are. Those tricky Ancient Greeks can't pull one over on me!

The University of Tennessee has this art/anatomy exhibit: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1i-9CawiKW0/VRpIVMRiJBI/AAAAAAAAaoQ/oRIetuveORE/s1600/Centaur%2Bof%2BVolos.jpg

And the International Wildlife Museum in Tucson has this art/anatomy exhibit: http://i.usatoday.net/tech/_photos/2012/01/15/Centaur-skeleton-takes-science-center-stage-F3R9BL5-x-large.jpg

Mr Beer
2015-06-09, 11:47 PM
lol, I'll have to look for this one.

Actually a really cool series, it only occurs to me today how it might mesh nicely with the squickier regions of equine fandom lurking on the internet.


Beer: Do they have dual genitalia in this setting?

Dual genitalia? LOL, no, that would be craaazzyyy!

They have three sets, of course.

There's the giant horsecock, in the usual equine location, but it's actually human in shape and horsey in size.

There's the posterior vagina, also in the usual horse location, exact visual description not clarified.

Then the human genitals, they are in the normal human location, tucked away under tufts of brightly coloured bodyhair. These can be male or female, they are normal human size, or possibly slightly larger because the human body is oversize, as mentioned before. These also determine whether the centaur is 'male' or 'female'.

The centaurs have posterior sex (horsecock in posterior vagina) all the time, this is a casual and friendly act and doesn't matter whether the participants are male or female IIRC. They all have both required sets of equipment as it were.

They have sex with their human genitals only as an act of love, this is a big deal.

Anyway, it's all a lot more intuitive than this preposterous 'dual genitalia' concept you floated, I'm sure you'll agree.

Mewtarthio
2015-06-10, 01:04 AM
See, each centaur is actually linked with a separate creature, the taurcen. Taurcen are all hidden away in a magical world filled with wheat, and they have the legs of a human with the head of a horse (alas, they have neither arms nor torso). Persistent magical portals connect the centaur's halves to the corresponding bits of their respective taurcen's anatomy; thus, when the taurcen eats, the food ends up in the centaur's horse belly.

As a side note, this does mean that teleport interdiction magic can be deadly to centaurs (they've got some redundant systems that can keep them from immediately dropping dead, but they can't last much longer than a few hours). That said, it's probably a bad idea to exploit this, unless you think your favorite cloak would look better drenched in poison blood.

Mr. Mask
2015-06-10, 01:47 AM
Beer: I was prepared to say this, but now more than my expectations could possibly prepare me for: 2spooky4me!


Mewtario: Clever.

Brother Oni
2015-06-10, 02:07 AM
Ratio of mouth size to mass shouldnt be an issue. Compare elephants or even whales. They may need particularly high energy foods though to maintain body mass - but that explains the wine and feasting.

I believe some greek myths had the centaurs as carnivorous, so a high protein diet should be sufficiently energy dense enough.

Aside from the 'nice' centaurs like Chiron (which has subsequently filtered through to make friendly centaur the rule rather than the exception), generally centaurs were regarded as wild and dangerous - they weren't adverse to eating humans or doing board inappropriate things to human females, especially when drunk.

Murk
2015-06-10, 03:02 AM
I was going to write an explanation about how the horse-part doesn't really have any organs, but are just an extension of the spine and mostly muscles; how they're just a huge bodypart that exists to make room for an extra set of legs; two giant buttocks, so to say.

But then I read the tales about three genitalia and portals to reverse centaurs. That is so much better.

Sindeloke
2015-06-10, 03:26 AM
I... can't top Varley, but I always sort of made them make sense by picturing a caterpillar (http://www.backyardnature.net/pix/b-swal-c.jpg) with its front folded up. Presumably they're just a typical long creature, but with a random right angle while at rest. I'd put their lungs all the way down the "human" part and their stomach in the "horse" bit.

I just wonder about their hygiene. I remember an entire SNL skit about how they wipe themselves once (the answer is cloth on sticks), but how do they comb their tails out, or wash under their foreskin?

Kalmageddon
2015-06-10, 03:54 AM
I... can't top Varley, but I always sort of made them make sense by picturing a caterpillar (http://www.backyardnature.net/pix/b-swal-c.jpg) with its front folded up.


And now the question is: what do centaurs become after pupation? :smalleek:

TheCountAlucard
2015-06-10, 04:19 AM
Aside from the 'nice' centaurs like Charon…That's Chiron you're thinking of. Charon is the totes-not-a-centaur guy who ferries the dead across the River Styx.

Brother Oni
2015-06-10, 05:55 AM
That's Chiron you're thinking of. Charon is the totes-not-a-centaur guy who ferries the dead across the River Styx.

Ooops, fixed now. Still, I was close enough that you knew who I meant. :smalltongue:

Braininthejar2
2015-06-10, 07:23 AM
I'd assume the horse part contains most organs (being bigger) while the human half contains mostly muscle.

I can't really get over the nostrils though (there was the time I considered giving centaurs blowholes on their back)

Mr. Mask
2015-06-10, 07:28 AM
Well, they could potentially breathe through their mouth simultaneously with their nostrils. Of course, not all nostrils are created equally (http://glossynews.com/wp-content/themes/gazette/thumb.php?src=http://glossynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/waxman-nose-fossils-found1.jpg&h=300&w=300&zc=1&q=90).

Braininthejar2
2015-06-10, 07:54 AM
Well, they could potentially breathe through their mouth simultaneously with their nostrils. Of course, not all nostrils are created equally (http://glossynews.com/wp-content/themes/gazette/thumb.php?src=http://glossynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/waxman-nose-fossils-found1.jpg&h=300&w=300&zc=1&q=90).

Now try combining your picture with this

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130503205011/warriorsofmyth/images/3/38/Female_Centaur....JPG

GungHo
2015-06-10, 09:22 AM
Y'all are weird.

Anonymouswizard
2015-06-10, 09:57 AM
Now try combining your picture with this

http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130503205011/warriorsofmyth/images/3/38/Female_Centaur....JPG

Are we adding the trio of privates as well?

Oh, and Mr Beer, you've got me wondering on which set/sets of equipment are fertile on a centaur, is that explained?

Maglubiyet
2015-06-10, 10:03 AM
Oh, and Mr Beer, you've got me wondering on which set/sets of equipment are fertile on a centaur...

And which set of mammaries are used for their infants.

LibraryOgre
2015-06-10, 11:16 AM
In "Fire Time" by Poul Anderson, the main alien species is a centauroid leonine race. While they eat with their mouths, their "manes" are a symbiotic species of plants which provide them with additional nourishment.

Hawkstar
2015-06-10, 11:49 AM
Are we adding the trio of privates as well?

Oh, and Mr Beer, you've got me wondering on which set/sets of equipment are fertile on a centaur, is that explained?

I think the answer is "all of them, though possibly sequentially"

However... I have now found a race that's even more... erm... something than Chakats. And WAY too much TMI. Not appreciated! NOT APPRECIATED!

Flickerdart
2015-06-10, 12:36 PM
A centaur has two redundant sets of every organ. This is to enable emergency separation between the halves a la the Enterprise, at which point the human half is well advised to have access to flight magic.

Mono Vertigo
2015-06-10, 12:51 PM
Would we get anywhere if we looked at a praying mantis' anatomy, one of the closest things IRL to a centauroid? Probably not, since they're insects and centaurs are generally meant to be mammals...

[description of sci-fi centaur anatomy]
Thank you, my good sir, for giving me flashbacks of some specific parts of Homestuck and simultaneously making me want to get radically drunk tonight.
Gorram, there's not enough alcohol in this house to make me forget I read this.

Ashtagon
2015-06-10, 01:37 PM
Centaurs are aberrations. they are in fact two separate organisms, a human-like half and a horse-like half, living in close symbiosis. The human-like portion trails off at the base into a "genital tendril" than merges deep within the horse half, enabling both organisms' sperm and ova to meet when they procreate in the usual (horse-like) manner.

Careful examination of the "waist" area will reveals subtle "rip" where the two halves meet, which is constantly oozing a brownish ichor. Friendly centaurs go to great pains to hide this, usually using human clothing and "belts". Toward the sides of this rip are two openings which allow the horse half to breathe. In private, the centaur can open these wider to allow feeding in greater quantities than the human mouth alone could accommodate. Where this waist-mouth can't be fed due to social mores, the centaur's human half is able to "feed" the horse portion through the "nutritional tendril", a sister organ to the genital tendril.

daremetoidareyo
2015-06-10, 01:53 PM
Actually, now that you brought up mantises, Perhaps there are spiracles (http://www.entomology.ucr.edu/ebeling/figures/fig052.jpg) on the legs or trunk of the horse to help draw in oxygen, supplementing the air drawn in through the nose and mouth. Unlike an insect, they would need some sort of filtration system and porous membrane. I would posit that they have an adaptive hemoglobin (http://www.news-medical.net/news/20100722/Super-hemoglobin-allows-moles-to-grow-underground.aspx) that is capable of carrying more oxygen. These spiracles would necessitate some sort of diaphragm analogs to draw the air in, which would increase the caloric needs of the beast at least a little.


Although, to be fair, the human face is omnivorous, and the favorite food of centaurs is calorie rich (wine and mead). This leads one to believe that centaurs, as a race, have entire swaths of meadow under protection as fodder for their extensive bee colonies. Perhaps they seed this meadow with grapes (for wine). Further, the meat part of the diet is where the real calorie rich fuels can be obtained: Centaurs would love to eat liver, heart, and especially the fat of killed fauna. The raw protein and fats could supplement the fueling needs of the creature, so long as the centaur has some relatively potent insulin to both maintain blood sugar levels steadily.
Some dietary adaptation could definitely help, as
1.) mucilaginous polysaccharides gums that slow the digestion and absorption of sugary foods can be regularly eaten, (usually cactus plant foods, but perhaps the local environment has analogs to prickly pear, millet, chia seeds, and nopales).
2.) Soluble fibers, tannins (super high in grapes and wine) and inulin in one group of traditional foods (including mesquite bean pods, acorns and tepary beans) helps reduce blood sugar levels, slow sugar absorption rates, and improve insulin production and sensitivity.

Further, this is all information known to cultural ethnobotanists who deal with diabetes issues for traditional peoples in "feast or famine environments" (like a desert) where sugar regulation needs to be spread across long spans of time with low caloric intake. The diabetes issues comes from western diets which are super high in sugars that interact poorly with these semi-genetic sugar-storing biological tendencies.

The question becomes, how much intestine do these things have. They obviously have a need for slow release sugar, a quality that can be preserved by consumption of tannins, but in order to digest the most tannin filled substance of them all (tree leaves) you need a long spool of intestines for bacteria to digest the cellulose in order to extract the energy. There are some cases of termites having their genetic code switched with these bacteria by what is conjectured to have been a phage, so that the termites themselves can digest wood pulp with no microbiological symbiosis with bacteria, but this is a bit rare. The problem with a long spool of intestine like this is that there needs to be some room for the additional oxygenation structures in the body of this creature.

Segev
2015-06-10, 02:10 PM
When I've had to ponder this in the past, I've determined that centaurs probably have both sets of lungs, and a strange respiratory pattern wherein they first fill the human set, and the exhalation from that fills the equine set. The human set is actually far less efficient than human lungs, being primarily a secondary "bellows" to store and push air into the primary equine set. The equine set is on a slower breathing cycle, normally, and exhales directly out when it deflates. The limited oxygen-harvesting capability of the human set enables them to comfortably exhale from the equine set for a longer period; this also gives them a reputation as being "long-winded," as they can often speak or hold a note far longer than could a human without feeling the lack of air.

When exerting themselves to the fullest, they actually engage in an almost interior-circular-breathing cycle, with a similar structure to what humans have to separate the esophagus from the airway allowing them to exhale from the equine lungs while holding air in the human lungs. This keeps the brain oxygenated while the cycling air from the lower set proceeds, though it has the side effect of requiring rapid breathing thereafter to refil them quickly. For this reason, despite their tremendous burst-speeds and their excellent long-term endurance at higher pace than human norm, centaurs actually have less peak endurance than do humans or horses: both can last longer at a run/gallop/full exertion than can a centaur. Oddly, centaurs do have the ability to hold their breath for longer, making them better underwater swimmers (albeit not at all otherwise adapted for it).

Mr Beer
2015-06-10, 03:00 PM
Are we adding the trio of privates as well?

Oh, and Mr Beer, you've got me wondering on which set/sets of equipment are fertile on a centaur, is that explained?

Procreation is simultaneously an important plot point (it falls on a central character's shoulders) and so potentially complex that I can't recall the exact details. IIRC it involves an egg, something like a chicken's, that spends time in both vaginas at some point, and also that a (female) centaur could theoretically fertilise herself.

I don't believe that humans and centaurs can crossbreed, at least not under normal circumstances. Though they can sure practice.

Flickerdart
2015-06-10, 03:25 PM
They obviously have a need for slow release sugar, a quality that can be preserved by consumption of tannins, but in order to digest the most tannin filled substance of them all (tree leaves) you need a long spool of intestines for bacteria to digest the cellulose in order to extract the energy.
Fortunately, centaurs have a lot of extra space in their bodies for just that sort of thing!

Mr Beer
2015-06-10, 06:06 PM
And which set of mammaries are used for their infants.

Human ones I think, don't remember.

Mr. Mask
2015-06-10, 06:16 PM
:smalleek:
[Genital tendrils, brown ichor] I hate everything! Maglubiyet, take responsibility!

Maglubiyet
2015-06-10, 08:47 PM
horrifying unspeakable abominations

Holy...


:smalleek: I hate everything! Maglubiyet, take responsibility!

Words fail me...going to go watch kitten videos for a few dozen hours to scrub my brain.

Mr. Mask
2015-06-10, 09:22 PM
:smallbiggrin:

Vwulf DeMarcus
2015-06-10, 09:42 PM
Human ones I think, don't remember.

Though it's been a while since I've read all three books, I don't believe it's stated. However, you're probably right. I (seem to) remember something about castes, but I don't know where the book that describes that is. I'll look.

EDIT: Found it! Essentially, a child can have between 1 and 4 parents, and the eggs have to be fertilized twice. I can go into more detail via PM if necessary, or, if you have the books, look in the back of the 2nd one, named Wizard.

Mr. Mask
2015-06-10, 09:48 PM
Though it's been a while since I've read all three books, I don't believe it's stated. However, you're probably right. I (seem to) remember something about castes, but I don't know where the book that describes that is. I'll look.

EDIT: Found it! Essentially, a child can have between 1 and 4 parents, and the eggs have to be fertilized twice. I can go into more detail via PM if necessary, or, if you have the books, look in the back of the 2nd one, named Wizard. 2spooky4me 2spooky4me 2spooky4me 2spooky4me 2spooky4me !!

OracleofWuffing
2015-06-11, 12:49 AM
A long time ago (so, like, don't necromance it), there was a thread about Owlbears that spun out into other creatures, and someone walked in with diagrams of organs that were applicable to centaurs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?209643-Owlbears-Egg-layers-or-Live-Birthers&p=11541715&viewfull=1#post11541715). But I believe Mr Beer has just kinda blasted straight through those diagrams and the next five planets.

Ashtagon
2015-06-11, 01:39 AM
:smalleek: I hate everything! Maglubiyet, take responsibility!


Holy...

Words fail me...going to go watch kitten videos for a few dozen hours to scrub my brain.


The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age. -- Lovecraft

I took ranks in Craft (disturbing image).

LudicSavant
2015-06-11, 08:52 AM
rather than whatever the fantasy equivalent of hard sci-fi is.

There really ought to be a term for that to describe the works of people like Brandon Sanderson.

Segev
2015-06-13, 04:28 PM
There really ought to be a term for that to describe the works of people like Brandon Sanderson.

TV Tropes calls it Magic A is Magic A (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicAIsMagicA).

Keltest
2015-06-13, 04:38 PM
TV Tropes calls it Magic A is Magic A (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicAIsMagicA).

You monster. There goes the rest of my day.

Segev
2015-06-13, 05:18 PM
You monster. There goes the rest of my day.

Bwah. ha. Ha.

LudicSavant
2015-06-14, 03:03 PM
TV Tropes calls it Magic A is Magic A (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicAIsMagicA).

I do not think that term is sufficient.

Segev
2015-06-14, 03:05 PM
I do not think that term is sufficient.

How not? Please elaborate; I enjoy this topic. :)

LudicSavant
2015-06-14, 03:06 PM
How not? Please elaborate; I enjoy this topic. :)

For one thing, it is simply asking for basic standards of good writing rather than more specifically identifying a certain level of *hardness* to the speculative fantasy fiction. The term is not a fantasy analogue to the term "hard science fiction."

Segev
2015-06-14, 03:14 PM
Eh, I am not sure Brandon Sanderson's works are "hard fantasy" in the sense meant by "hard sci-fi." "Hard sci-fi" is closer to speculative fiction than anything else. It seeks to take existing theories and elaborate on them in practice. It tends to only permit technological advances which overcome current physical limitations in our manufacturing processes, or which require minor innovations to resolve a problem. It is distinct from soft sci-fi in that it doesn't permit speculating on the nature of underlying physical law, nor hypothesizing entirely new fields of scientific research, nor anything, well, fantastical.

It is more akin to "low fantasy" than anything else, based on the notion that the breaks from reality are few and/or far between.

Brandon Sanderson does pretty high fantasy; he just sets up consistent magical laws of HOW it works. Hard sci-fi would require very rigorous ties to what we know is true; "hard fantasy" would require some means of demonstrating where the magic links into underlying physical laws. And generally without resorting to "a God did it."

(Hard sci-fi dodges that requirement a little bit by saying it's starting with real-world known physics. Hard fantasy could presumably do something similar, but would very quickly look like "alien science made our magic.")

Seharvepernfan
2015-06-15, 01:54 PM
This bugged me to, so I changed centaurs to be a race of lycanthropes. They have a tall, strong humanoid form that basically looks like a big muscular half-elf, then a horse form (for blending into the wilds and long travel) and a hybrid battle form (large size, humanoid weapons, fast speed).

Segev
2015-06-15, 02:11 PM
"Centaur" would be a perfectly viable War Form for a Lunar Exalt with a Horse as his spirit form.

Freelance GM
2015-06-16, 10:16 PM
What exactly is in the human torso part of a centaur?

I was just wondering about this. I came to this thread looking for answers. Instead, I only found more questions.

Well, more questions and some squicky mental images.


A long time ago someone walked in with diagrams of organs that were applicable to centaurs (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?209643-Owlbears-Egg-layers-or-Live-Birthers&p=11541715&viewfull=1#post11541715).

I looked at the diagram, and okay, cool, but if the Centaur's heart and lungs were that much bigger, wouldn't it have a different ribcage structure? Then there's also the kind of Uncanny Valley thought that his/her pectoral muscles would probably start at the collarbone and end where the human navel would/should be.

I almost feel like Centaurs would be more anatomically plausible if they were depicted as human torsos on miniature horses. But that wouldn't be nearly as cool.

Segev
2015-06-17, 11:16 AM
Hm. I'm picturing the human skeleton going down to the pelvic bone, which rests roughly where the horse's neck intersects the body on a horse. The spine of the human extends to the spine of the horse, instead of to a tailbone, and the human torso has roughly the same mobility at the hips/waist as a horse's neck would. I believe this means that centaurs can actually bend pretty far forward, and may have the back muscles to support their human-part bodies at any of those angles.

I'm told horses can be coaxed into laying down, and that most of the trouble with it is skittishness at the vulnerability of the position (being, largely, prey animals), rather than physical discomfort. I know I've seen horses roll over on their backs occasionally. Add the ability of the human torso to lean forward to parallel with the equine back, and that can allow centaurs to rest in just about any position the human body might. They may, if they're laying bellies-down, need a fainting-couch-like bed to rest their torso on comfortably. Or they might just lay all the way forward, with only a narrow gap between where the equine chest touches down and the human waist begins.

I tend to assume they have the internal parts appropriate to their external parts, with the redundancies being used to feed one another to make up for any deficiencies due to missing parts (in particular airways being much longer coming from the human head).

JeenLeen
2015-06-17, 12:22 PM
The thread that inspired this thread had me thinking about centaurs. I pictured a modified one like:

The human head contains the brain and mouth, like a normal human.
The human torso contains very large lungs, a stomach, and a heart.
The horse body contains the rest of the internal organs, including a larger stomach and the primary heart. The actual digestion of food happens in this part of the body.

Arms are longer (and perhaps with three joints, or at least double-jointed) to allow more flexibility, and things like easier hygiene, cleaning, and reaching into backpacks. Legs are probably more flexible as well to facilitate movement horses have some difficulty with.

I'm not a biology specialist by any means, but the above seemed a reasonable biology.

Maglubiyet
2015-06-18, 04:08 PM
I think this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqajBoOA8lo) clears up a lot of questions about centaur biology.

In particular, it answers whether they can swing on swings. Plus it gives a few details about their courtship rituals.

Jay R
2015-06-18, 09:23 PM
If you don't like centaurs, stick with creatures that make more intuitive sense, like chimeras, gryphons, hippogriffs, etc. If you don't draw the line somewhere, you'll wind up with ridiculous creatures like Kardashians.