Shadowblade or Shadowsmith?

[LanSlyde]

So I have an upcoming game on the 12th of June. New group, new DM. The optimization level of the group is.. well.. several degrees lower than what I an accustomed to. It's also a fairly small group, including myself we have three people. Starting at level 1, we will have a Dwarf fighter Warblade that plans on going into Dwarven Defender Bloodstorm Blade, and an Elven WarmageCleric who wants to go into Radiant Servant of Pelor.

I myself will be playing a drow (eberron edition. Scorpions ftw) ranger. With plans of heading into Scorpion Wraith (Secrets of Xen'drik) at 6th level then its a toss up between Shadowblade and Shadowsmith (both from Tome of Magic). I am asking the playground for opinions on which one to go with, based upon a stealth and scout role.


Feat selection is as follows.



(Flaw1) Drow Skirmisher (Thematically appropriate);

(Flaw2) Improved Initiative (Requirment for Wraith);

(Ranger1) Track;

(1) Blessed of Vulkoor; (Mostly thematic, my scorpion drow needs a pet scorpion, also poison harvesting);

(Ranger2) Two Weapon Fighting (Will be using Drow Long Knives);

(Ranger3) Endurance;

(3) Darkstalker (I can't be a good scout when everything ignores my Hide check);

(Ranger4) Blind-Fight (Took the ACF that gives me bonus feats instead of Spellcasting, I won't be sticking in the class long enough to get anything decent, and Blind-Fight is a prerequisite for Scorpion Wraith);

(6) Improved Two Weapon Fighting (Because long knives);

(9) Drow Scorpion Warrior (Thematically appropriate);

(12) Greater Two Weapon Fighting; (Explanatory)

(15) Dodge (Way late I know, but I ran out of ideas);

(18) Elusive Target (Gain Mobility from the Mobility enhancement I will be throwing on my armor.)

[Zaq]

Well, they're both pretty terrible, but it seems like you know that already, and you're trying to intentionally pick underpowered classes, right?

Between the two, Shadowsmith has a way better chassis, for one (full BAB and 6 + INT skills vs. Shadowblade's medium BAB and 2 + INT skills), which is honestly something to watch out for on a Ranger base. (Of course, the skill list is pretty horrible, so that might be a toss-up.) I like the ability to pull items out of thin air—sure, anyone can do that with shapesand, but it's still a neat trick, even if it's pretty limited. Unfortunately, the other class features are too limited to really be of much use. The class features of Shadowblade are probably a little bit better in terms of combat power, since at least they actually make you better at attacking. If you're only going to be in either class for a few levels, you're not really going to get many uses per day of your abilities, but you knew that from the start. Shadowblade is going to be a little bit flashier—you and I both know that its abilities are too limited to really be strong, but it's going to look stronger than Shadowsmith is, so if you're trying not to do anything that will get you labeled as a powergamer, you'll be safer with Shadowsmith. I don't know how free your new group will be with those kinds of accusations, so you might not need to worry about it, but it's worth considering.

Basically, I think Shadowsmith will be better if you think your GM will let you take advantage of its out-of-combat tricks to any degree, and Shadowblade will be better if you want to focus on how well you kill stuff once initiative is rolled. Shadowsmith has the better chassis, though, if you want to keep up your BAB and (sorta) skill points, probably in preparation for another PrC.

Neither is actually a strong choice, but like I said, you seem to know that already.

[LanSlyde]

Well, they're both pretty terrible, but it seems like you know that already, and you're trying to intentionally pick underpowered classes, right?

Between the two, Shadowsmith has a way better chassis, for one (full BAB and 6 + INT skills vs. Shadowblade's medium BAB and 2 + INT skills), which is honestly something to watch out for on a Ranger base. (Of course, the skill list is pretty horrible, so that might be a toss-up.) I like the ability to pull items out of thin air—sure, anyone can do that with shapesand, but it's still a neat trick, even if it's pretty limited. Unfortunately, the other class features are too limited to really be of much use. The class features of Shadowblade are probably a little bit better in terms of combat power, since at least they actually make you better at attacking. If you're only going to be in either class for a few levels, you're not really going to get many uses per day of your abilities, but you knew that from the start. Shadowblade is going to be a little bit flashier—you and I both know that its abilities are too limited to really be strong, but it's going to look stronger than Shadowsmith is, so if you're trying not to do anything that will get you labeled as a powergamer, you'll be safer with Shadowsmith. I don't know how free your new group will be with those kinds of accusations, so you might not need to worry about it, but it's worth considering.

Basically, I think Shadowsmith will be better if you think your GM will let you take advantage of its out-of-combat tricks to any degree, and Shadowblade will be better if you want to focus on how well you kill stuff once initiative is rolled. Shadowsmith has the better chassis, though, if you want to keep up your BAB and (sorta) skill points, probably in preparation for another PrC.

Neither is actually a strong choice, but like I said, you seem to know that already.

Indeed. Honestly I feel the two of them would actually be a class worth considering if they were combined, but separate neither of them are particularly nifty. From a pure survival aspect I suppose shadowsmith would be better. Between its Shroud of Shadow ability and Scorpion Wraiths own Veil of Shadow its a whopping +15 to both Hide and Move Silently. At the same time, Shadowblade's sudden strike damage stacks well with the sudden strike damage from Scorpion Wraith and gives my Xen'drik boomerangs that additional kick they desperately need.

[Nihilarian]

Mechanically I'd probably say go Shadowblade but it's also just like any other ninja-type class out there. The Shadowsmith's crafting weapons thing and access to mysteries seems like it'd be more fun imo.

[LanSlyde]

Mechanically I'd probably say go Shadowblade but it's also just like any other ninja-type class out there. The Shadowsmith's crafting weapons thing and access to mysteries seems like it'd be more fun imo.

Yeah, hell I might just see if the dm will let me gestalt the two.

[torrasque666]

Why not also go Scorpion Heritor? Gets you more scorpiony goodness and is still kinda stealthy.

[Nihilarian]

Yeah, hell I might just see if the dm will let me gestalt the two.normally I'd be in favor of that but weren't you intentionally choosing sub par classes to match the other players speeds?

[LanSlyde]

Why not also go Scorpion Heritor? Gets you more scorpiony goodness and is still kinda stealthy.


Thought about it when I was planning out the class, its nifty, but Scorpion Wraith gives me more effective abilities in half the levels.




normally I'd be in favor of that but weren't you intentionally choosing sub par classes to match the other players speeds?


I am, that said, I also convinced the other two to try something different. The Dwarf is now a Warblade with plans to go into Bloodstorm Blade. The Elf is now a cleric that wants to go into Radiant Servant of Pelor.

[torrasque666]

Thought about it when I was planning out the class, its nifty, but Scorpion Wraith gives me more effective abilities in half the levels.
Dude, you said you wanted to go low power...


I am, that said, I also convinced the other two to try something different. The Dwarf is now a Warblade with plans to go into Bloodstorm Blade. The Elf is now a cleric that wants to go into Radiant Servant of Pelor.
Huh. Nevermind then.

[Metahuman1]

Bounce Spontaneous Domain Casting off the cleric. If he actually needs fewer uses of healing spells to keep party mates up and can do them willy nilly still, he might actually start experimenting more with his spells and learn to use them better.


And yeah, cleric doing a decent job of casting and Warblade, I think you'd be safe at least asking about gestalting to the two classes. Or maybe using neither and just picking up a couple of Shadow Hand + Diamond Mind + maybe Tiger Claw focused Swordsage Levels.

[gorfnab]

Yeah, hell I might just see if the dm will let me gestalt the two.
I allow that in the games I DM. A gestalt of the two leads to a mesh that creates an okay shadowy assassin type.

[LanSlyde]

Thanks for the input guys, probably going to go ahead and see about gestalting the two. Also, no idea who handle's the poison handbook these days (if anyone) but they should consider updating it to include levels in Scorpion Wraith.