3.5 Updated Crossbow Build

[LoyalPaladin]

Hello Everybody,
I'm attempting to update my build a little from an old concept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?405401-Holy-Crossbow-Devil-Hunter) that hasn't seen play quite yet.

There are a few things I should go over first.
I am human. 38 Point Buy. I am allowed a +4 LA template for free. I will be starting at level 30. I can only take two prestige classes over the 30 levels. I am trying to keep my base classes at 3 or less. I have 5 million gold to spend. Almost all WotC content is available. The campaign is taking place in Baator. I need to do lots of damage.
Before, I was fairly dead set on full casting and levels in Paladin. Now, I am really looking to stay LG, but I just want to make these crossbows do damage.

I need to find ways to bypass DR and hit really high AC. I don't expect any of the monsters to be SRD and I kind of expect the DM to jack up everything. Here is my old build (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9ROb5SNDtH4VXFXZzdWS2NFa00/view), I appreciate the help.

I looked into Horizon walker for the immunities to planes and I've also looked into Scout quite a bit. My goal is to hit 8 times a round and if it's possible, cleric casting would be awesome. This is a high OP campaign, but cheese is low.

[Ellowryn]

Hrm, you could try a swift hunter build, something like Ranger 26/Scout 4. And i would definitely suggest trying to get at least some epic levels of a class in regardless, as more epic feats = more power. As for your number of attacks, the best i can think of is either going for the Multi-shot line (they don't specifically state it only works with a bow, but the flavor text suggests it) or grabbing Travel Devotion. I believe there is also an exotic crossbow out there that fires two bolts at a time, but i can't remember where.

For templates... Saint maybe? Dunno, anything that gives you Dex and maybe Con/Wis. And for hitting ridiculous high AC try brilliant energy unless you are fighting undead/constructs, for bypassing DR just start with a +6 weapon enchantment and start slapping on types.

[Uncle Pine]

I have an old Tarma build centered on dual wielding double crossbows somewhere. I'll try to dig it up later.

[Fearan]

Here are some questions for your previous build:
1) What's your damage sourse? 1d4+10 looks kinda meh on lvl10, much less lvl 30
2) You kinda skipped Crossbow Sniper feat (phb2) Why? Same for Dead Eye(Dragon compendium)
3) You have Hand Crossbow Focus and now redundant Rapid Reload. Why?
4) You still need a free hand to reload a crossbow, even if its freeaction. How do you circumvent this?

[Karl Aegis]

You could try digging up an old JaronK build for a start to your build. (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1383001) It uses dips into fighter and martial rogue and focuses mostly on warblade. 48 shots for 4d6+2+1/2 dex+ Blood in the Water each should be respectable for an initial volley at level 20. You average 24 shots a round if you have to refresh your maneuvers every other round, 29 if you think you can win in 2 rounds. Slap on whatever 10 levels your DM will allow and you got yourself a build.

[Uncle Pine]

Couldn't find the old build because I don't remember my Myth-Weavers account's details, but here are a couple of random suggestions:
- Loading a self-loading (A&EG 116) quickloading (MIC 41) heavy crossbow don't require hands, and it's a free action. The same goes for lighter weapons.
- If you buy a couple of gloves of the master strategists Hand Crossbow Focus lets you reload any couple of aptitude crossbows without resorting to self-loading+quickloading or needing a third arm.
- Crossbow Sniper, Dead Eye and Vital Aim (from Targeteer) let you add 2,5*Dex modifier to damage (1,5 times if the target isn't within 30 ft.).
- Targeteer (Fighter variant, Dragon #310) gives you two EWP for free (ranged weapons only) and lets you select some nifty special abilities in place of a bonus feat: Arrow Swarm (-5 to-hit for a round, +2 attacks on a full-attack), Sniper (sacrifice N attacks from a full-attack, gain +N threat range) and Vital Aim (+Dex to damage).
- Aptitude weapon + Lighting Mace + Blood in the Water goes a long way, especially coupled with Arrow Swarm and Sniper.
- Deepwood Sniper 7 gives you +70 ft. range increment, 17-20/x4 bolts and a couple of other things.
- Peerless Archer 3 gives you Power Shot (= Power Attack with ranged weapons) and ranged SA +1d6.

[Demidos]

I am rather surprised no one has mentioned woodland archer, which, among other things, gives you a +4 to subsequent shots after missing a shot.

Most people probably would (very reasonably) rule it as non-stacking-with-itself, but i've played with it stacking with itself and, given archery's generally low damage, i've found it works fairly well. Granted, I was in an extremely high power campaign, but this here is epic. Depending on your DM, you might need 500 damage per round to stay relevant, or 10,000. Or damage ceases to become relevant completely.


P.S: I would suggest banning epic spellcasting. It just makes the battle too swingy (who has a better worded epic spell guyssss. Oh yeah, the DM. :smallmad: ) And isn't really worth the trouble. Quickened twinned repeated miracles are already quite powerful. Give them a feat that lets them cast 2 spells of their max level -5 as a free action instead, and use metamagic or something.

[ShurikVch]

How about the psionics?
Half-Giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#halfGiants) will manifest Expansion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm), then Call Weaponry (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/callWeaponry.htm) (Heavy Ballista), which will do 5d8 damage...
(Dip in Master Siege Engineer PrC for Siege Accuracy, Increased Range, and Siege Weapon Specialization)

[LoyalPaladin]

I've updated my build (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9ROb5SNDtH4ak4ybFYySTU2Vmc/view?usp=sharing) a little, after looking into some suggestions.


Hrm, you could try a swift hunter build, something like Ranger 26/Scout 4.
I was thinking the opposite. Something like Scout / Ranger / Horizon Walker. You're idea inspired me. I looked into the Half-Celestial template for SLAs, SR, and ability boosts.



2) You kinda skipped Crossbow Sniper feat (phb2) Why? Same for Dead Eye(Dragon compendium)
3) You have Hand Crossbow Focus and now redundant Rapid Reload. Why?
4) You still need a free hand to reload a crossbow, even if its freeaction. How do you circumvent this?
2) I plan on taking it, but I needed a lot of other more important feats.
3) The program we use doesn't have DotU coded in. So I took it as an extra feat that doesn't actually count against my total.
4) I'm working on getting them to be self loading.



- Crossbow Sniper, Dead Eye and Vital Aim (from Targeteer) let you add 2,5*Dex modifier to damage (1,5 times if the target isn't within 30 ft.).
- Targeteer (Fighter variant, Dragon #310) gives you two EWP for free (ranged weapons only) and lets you select some nifty special abilities in place of a bonus feat: Arrow Swarm (-5 to-hit for a round, +2 attacks on a full-attack), Sniper (sacrifice N attacks from a full-attack, gain +N threat range) and Vital Aim (+Dex to damage).
That sounds like something I might do.


P.S: I would suggest banning epic spellcasting. It just makes the battle too swingy (who has a better worded epic spell guyssss. Oh yeah, the DM. :smallmad: ) And isn't really worth the trouble. Quickened twinned repeated miracles are already quite powerful. Give them a feat that lets them cast 2 spells of their max level -5 as a free action instead, and use metamagic or something.
The guy already banned it. Mostly because he didn't want our Wizard to use it haha.

[Swaoeaeieu]

Mighty arm grafts, by RAW, give you an extra set of functioning arms for 200 gp. More crossbows!
Aptitude crossbows, beacuse of the funky way aptitude is written can interact with a lot of feats, lightning mace and blood of the water is a good combo previously mentioned. Add Boomerang Richochet (Races of Eberron, pg 108) and boomerang daze for extra fun and hits.

Wasn´t there a build out there that was basically a submachine gun with crossbows?

[Uncle Pine]

Wasn´t there a build out there that was basically a submachine gun with crossbows?
Don't you mean double (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFQsUTki0YU) heavy machine gun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w5TeJVdhHY)?

Also, use the Force. It's a +2 weapon enhancement that bypasses any DR (handy and cheap as many things in MIC). Splitting (Champions of Ruin) is also recommended.

[Flickerdart]

More arms is better. Obah-Blessed is great. Girallon Arms soulmeld is great. Anything that gives you tentacles or prehensile tails can be capped with Hands of Man to turn them into additional arms.

[ekarney]

Mighty arm grafts, by RAW, give you an extra set of functioning arms for 200 gp. More crossbows!


Wait. 200? Do you have a source on that?

Also Aptitude + Gnome Calculus + Alchemist Savant means you get all the benefits of a crossbow build, but with slinging flasks and potions of nastiness. I love aptitude.

[Uncle Pine]

Also Aptitude + Gnome Calculus + Alchemist Savant means you get all the benefits of a crossbow build, but with slinging aboleth mucus. I love aptitude.

Fixed for you. :smallwink:

However, note that you can only use aptitude with feats, not with class abilities etc.

[ekarney]

Fixed for you. :smallwink:

However, note that you can only use aptitude with feats, not with class abilities etc.

Oh yeah, I was referring to the class ability that allows you to make spellvials and the like to use as ammunition. That and it means you can heal your friends by throwng glass at them, it's like you don't even need to go to the tavern!

[Swaoeaeieu]

Wait. 200? Do you have a source on that?

Also Aptitude + Gnome Calculus + Alchemist Savant means you get all the benefits of a crossbow build, but with slinging flasks and potions of nastiness. I love aptitude.

Oh wow thats an unfortunate typo. i think it was 2000 gp actually. magic of ebberon if i am not mistaken

[LoyalPaladin]

Fixed for you. :smallwink:
I bet that counts as [Evil] haha.


However, note that you can only use aptitude with feats, not with class abilities etc.
Too bad I can't apply crossbows to my saves with Divine Grace...

[Uncle Pine]

Too bad I can't apply crossbows to my saves with Divine Grace...

This should probably belong to the "[3.x] X bows to Y bonus" thread.

[LoyalPaladin]

This should probably belong to the "[3.x] X bows to Y bonus" thread.
I agree. I am tired of my crossbow saves being oppressed.

[Ellowryn]

I was thinking the opposite. Something like Scout / Ranger / Horizon Walker. You're idea inspired me. I looked into the Half-Celestial template for SLAs, SR, and ability boosts.

Do remember that scout only has average BaB and no innate spellcasting (two things you were worried about). Horizon Walker does have some neat abilities, but 90% of them can be replicated with magic items, and epic base class levels (for most high tier classes) are more powerful than just about any PrC. Half-Celestial is good, gives you a bunch of stuff and you will have a high Wis mod so you will the best out of your SLA's.