Need PHB Build Help

[Roto]

So, my friend's DM is being a **** about builds and characters and saying anything not in PHB is broken and overpowered. Even though he uses that stuff just fine in the other game that he's a player in. So, I'm trying to help her build a new character. What's the most broken thing you can do/play using only the 3.5 PHB not involving Wizard or Cleric?

[Extra Anchovies]

Druid. SF (conjuration), Augment Summoning, Natural Spell. Have a pet bear, turn into a bear, summon bears. After you have the above three feats, pick up Improved Initiative, Leadership (if allowed), Power Attack, and whatever item creation and metamagic you want most (Craft Wondrous Item and Extend/Silent/Still Spell are the best in core).

[Brova]

Not technically PHB only, but core only so it should count.

Be a commoner. Put 4 ranks in Profession (haberdashery). Take Skill Focus (Profession [haberdashery]). Put an 18 in Wis. You make an average of 10.5 GP per week as a haberdasher. Work for 20 years as a haberdasher. You now have 10,920 GP. Use 8,400 GP from your wealth to buy a Candle of Invocation. Burn this candle to summon an Efreet. Command it to grant you a wish. Use this wish to acquire a ring that grants unlimited wishes.

Congratulations, you just won the game.

[Karl Aegis]

Druid is good for every character concept. What is your character concept?

If you want to be really, really bad you can play a monk with weapon focus(unarmed strike) and use unarmed strikes.

[Flickerdart]

So, my friend's DM is being a **** about builds and characters and saying anything not in PHB is broken and overpowered. Even though he uses that stuff just fine in the other game that he's a player in. So, I'm trying to help her build a new character. What's the most broken thing you can do/play using only the 3.5 PHB not involving Wizard or Cleric?
What level will she be starting at? Druids are excellent in the early levels, but they have a lot of opportunities to get screwed over by antagonistic DMs doing things like taking control of the animal companion, arguing that the druid must do X because of nature, or denying wildshape forms or companions on the basis of "your character would not be familiar with bears."

Sorcerers are really the way to go for a DM-proof class that can still put out obscene levels of hurt. The early levels will be painful, but as soon as she's got that battlefield control mojo up and running, faces will be getting wrecked.

[Scheming Wizard]

Druid, Wizard and Cleric are the big dogs of 3.5, and if Cleric and Wizard are off limits for some reason by all means Druid. One trick that a lot of people don't know about is to have your druid worship Mielikki, so you can use any armor or weapons that a ranger can use including metal ones. You can even use shields. Natural spell is also a must have feat so you can cast spells as a bear. Just get your wildshape stats done before the game as it takes too long if you try to figure it out during a fight.

[Saintheart]

Druid, Wizard and Cleric are the big dogs of 3.5, and if Cleric and Wizard are off limits for some reason by all means Druid. One trick that a lot of people don't know about is to have your druid worship Mielikki, so you can use any armor or weapons that a ranger can use including metal ones. You can even use shields.

Yeah, but Mielikki is not in the PHB. Forgotten Realms. And one suspects that exclusion was made courtesy of the popularity of a certain dual-wielding drow.

[Scheming Wizard]

Yeah, but Mielikki is not in the PHB. Forgotten Realms. And one suspects that exclusion was made courtesy of the popularity of a certain dual-wielding drow.

Well the game must be set somewhere. I guess if it isn't set in Faerun he can't use Mielikki.

[Hiro Quester]

Lots of things in PHB can be overpowered (that is Casters: wizard, cleric, and especially Druid), and many are drastically under powered (e.g. melee types: esp. monk, fighter).

Anyway, in this forum (http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/3277426) a Druid is created in order to prove a point to DM (who kind of asked for it) about why restricting players to core does not solve overpowered problems. Look there if you want to make a similar point in game, by being awesomely powerful.

Basically put everything you have into wisdom and constitution. A few points in intelligence for skills. Dump everything else. Get augment summons (and SF:conj), extend spell at 3rd (for self-buffs you share with AC), natural spell (6th).

At the beginning you will be frail and using spells for BFC (entangle) and your riding dog AC (trained for war, so it can trip) as a fighter/bodyguard. Your sling (with magic stone) for ranged attacks.

After third level, fly above the fray riding your dire bat AC, dropping BFCs, wolves and crocodiles on the bad guys. Produce flame becomes a good ranged weapon. Summon lightning storm and flaming sphere can combo nicely (move action plus standard action to directs each to a single target).

Replace your AC whenever you can: riding dog> dire bat> brown bear> dire bear. Buy a monk's belt. Take it off to wildshape, and have a party member retie it onto you when you wildshape.

But for 6 and 7 levels, keep wildshape for utility (flying scout, swimming, climbing). Leopard and deinonychus are probably your best combat forms, if you want to do that. But take it easy there, so the change at 8th level is really dramatic.

At 8 level, when you get large wildshape forms, suddenly pull out all the stops: wildshape into a brown bear when combat is coming soon. Cast barkskin and bull's strength (a Mage Armor from your arcane caster is cream on top). When combat begins summon an (augmented) brown bear.

Then you and your bear AC, and summoned bear can then tear all the enemies to pieces and feast on their entrails.

Then after the point is made, make sure to tone things back so the game is fun for all the players. Only pull out the OP options when the party is in deep trouble, and needs your awesomeness to avoid TPK.


But perhaps a better option is to show your DM, out of game, that he can add balance by also giving melee types options, versatility and magic-like powers by opening Tome of Battle. Everyone will have way more fun, even if it takes a while to get used to stances and maneuvers.

[Telonius]

I'd strongly suggest that you shouldn't go into this in a confrontational mindset. You're having an out-of-character dispute with the DM over playstyles; don't try to settle it in-game unless they've agreed to see what monstrosity you can build using only the PHB, duct tape, and a paperclip.

There are loads of ways a DM can shut down casters in a PHB-only environment, especially at lower levels. Messing with the spellbook, Antimagic Fields, sundering a Holy Symbol, even something as simple as disrupting a full night's sleep with random encounters. If the DM goes into this angry or defensive, they'll see it as a competition to outgun the caster - a competition which they will win, because the DM will always win in an arms race. They won't notice (or care) that they're invoking the Oberoni fallacy. If the DM needs to fix it, that means it was broken.

[Extra Anchovies]

If instead of breaking the game you just want to be generally effective, consider the Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-%28Core-Melee-Build%29). It is the only way to be an effective melee mundane in core.

[Flickerdart]

If instead of breaking the game you just want to be generally effective, consider the Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-%28Core-Melee-Build%29). It is the only way to be an effective melee in core.
"Prestige classes? Taking a single level of two different classes? Those are broken cheater things." -the DM, probably.

[Brova]

If instead of breaking the game you just want to be generally effective, consider the Horizon Tripper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?80415-The-Horizon-Tripper-%28Core-Melee-Build%29). It is the only way to be an effective melee in core.

Well, you could always be a Druid Dire Bear. It's not even the only way to be an effective mundane in core. The flask Rogue is 100% core content and does very respectable damage throughout the game, especially in dungeons or other enclosed spaces.

[Demidos]

Look up one of the many many threads explaining what about polymorph is broken. Then one about Gate. Then Shapechange. Wish. Miracle. Point your DM to them. Point your dm to a thread about the best spells at a given level. Note that grease, entangle, glitterdust, (color spray?) are all core.

If you try to fix this in game, so will the DM, by coming up with ridiculous scenarios that end up with TPKs. This will end up with bad feelings all around in game if you try it.

[Extra Anchovies]

Well, you could always be a Druid Dire Bear. It's not even the only way to be an effective mundane in core. The flask Rogue is 100% core content and does very respectable damage throughout the game, especially in dungeons or other enclosed spaces.

Flask rogue is unsustainably expensive, very feat-heavy (since you need archery and TWF) and not every DM allows precision damage on splash weapons (with good reason).


Look up one of the many many threads explaining what about polymorph is broken. Then one about Gate. Then Shapechange. Wish. Miracle. Point your DM to them. Point your dm to a thread about the best spells at a given level. Note that grease, entangle, glitterdust, (color spray?) are all core.

I've found that all that does is get those specific items banned, so that nobody has any good options.

[Urpriest]

Can't be done. With just the PHB you're unable to gain XP because XP rewards are in the DMG, so you'll never advance.

[Brova]

Flask rogue is unsustainably expensive, very feat-heavy (since you need archery and TWF) and not every DM allows precision damage on splash weapons (with good reason).

On average you kill at level opponents with at most two flasks per level (it is usually not this high). Given that per encounter values of treasure are always above 80 GP per level, you will always make back what you spent in flasks even after splitting with the rest of the party. You do take a lot of feats, but what other feats were you planning on taking as a core Rogue? Nimble Fingers? And yes, your DM can nerf your build, but he can nerf any build.

[dextercorvia]

What's the most broken thing you can do/play using only the 3.5 PHB not involving Wizard or Cleric?

Play a monk. Take craft:beer. Shave the middle of your head but not the sides. Ride around in a cart and sell your beer at local festivals. Purchase your grain from the drunken farmers at a discount. Make more beer, rinse, repeat. I guarantee it will break the campaign.

[Scheming Wizard]

I'm definitely not advocating players and the DM getting into a battle of who can be the most broken. DM's don't always win these battles unless they go the cheesy rocks fall and everyone dies route, but that's not the point. A game where players and the DM are at odds isn't fun for everyone involved.

That being said I think players especially new players benefit from playing the stronger classes, because new players aren't going to play the class perfectly and some class features or spells are going to get wasted or forgotten to be used. It is a lot less damaging to waste resources when your class gives you plenty of them than if you're a samurai and your class gives you very little. Druids are also really flexible. They have an animal companion if there aren't enough front line fighters, they have healing if there isn't a cleric, and they have spells in case there isn't a wizard or sorcerer.