[Help me] Making a strong wizard

[ivanbin]

Ok, I am trying to figure out how to make a good wizard. Mostly this is me trying NOT to die within seconds, and thus grabbing all them sexy immunities.

I can go up to level 21.
I am planning on dropping 3 levels on Cleric to grab the Mystra feat, and then spending my epic feat on permanent AMF emanation.
I am also considering doing the astral travel cheese, with the nightmare (because fire horses are cool).
Then there's the standard mindblank spell for good measure.

Now, from what I understand, barring Disjunction (And another person with Mystra feat), can anything get to me in my AMF?

Following that, what would you advise me to do about anyone trying to just charge me for thousand damage? Any spell that can let me say "no" to a physical attacker that would work 100% (aka nothing that I'd need to cast ON them, or something that gives me a chance to not be killed). Maybe just being fully ethereal, since anything they can hit me with will stop working thanks to my AMF?

[Story]

True Mind Switch into an Ice Assassin Aleax of yourself.

[Demidos]

Immunity to physical damage is simple.

Starmantle Cloak, be able to hit a DC 15 Reflex save and never take damage again (Note, may require use of Ring of Evasion).

Total cost: 150k for immunty to all weapons. And makes them explode. ...Technically includes natural weapons!

[ivanbin]

Will the cloak keep working in the AMF?

[Scheming Wizard]

If you don't want to die you should use your epic feat to grab epic spellcasting and then you can cast epic mage armor. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Epic_Mage_Armor

Only costs 414,000 gold pieces and nine days of spellcrafting. After you craft the spell you can cast it every day for no cost.

[ivanbin]

True, but it someone had the to-hit nearing triple digits, the +20 AC wont help much.
Though tell me, can a mage hit me through the AMF? (Barring the use of disjunction) or do I need to add some more defenses vs magic?

[gorfnab]

I am planning on dropping 3 levels on Cleric to grab the Mystra feat, and then spending my epic feat on permanent AMF emanation.
I am also considering doing the astral travel cheese, with the nightmare (because fire horses are cool).
Then there's the standard mindblank spell for good measure.

If you're going this route would you consider the Cheater of Mystra (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/916676) build setup?

[gorfnab]

If you don't want to die you should use your epic feat to grab epic spellcasting and then you can cast epic mage armor. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Epic_Mage_Armor

I would avoid dandwiki if possible. Even some of the stuff on there that says it's from the official wotc ogl source may have been altered from the original text. Also the site is not well edited and full of mediocre homebrew at best and horribly useless/broken or poorly edited drivel at worst.

This is the posting from the D20 SRD which follows the D20 license: Epic Mage Armor
(http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spells/epicMageArmor.htm)

[Scheming Wizard]

True, but it someone had the to-hit nearing triple digits, the +20 AC wont help much.
Though tell me, can a mage hit me through the AMF? (Barring the use of disjunction) or do I need to add some more defenses vs magic?

Well someone could use Telekinesis and throw a rock at you. That is a popular trick when trying to fight beholders.

[ivanbin]

If you're going this route would you consider the Cheater of Mystra (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/916676) build setup?

I might. Could you explain the build though? I get that it uses Dweomerkeeper and cleric and AMF, but I could use a short explanation exactly how it works. Like, whats the point of Dweomerkeeper exactly? Sure, the Supernatural spell is really awesome, but its only 5 per day, and as such cant be relied on ALL the time.

[JeminiZero]

True Mind Switch into an Ice Assassin Aleax of yourself.
Unfortunately, Ice Assassin specifically only creates copies of existing creatures, so unless a Deity has made an Aleax of yourself, this probably won't fly.

(You could *try* to make an Ice Assassin of a Deity, and order the IA Deity to *try* and make an Aleax of you, and then work from there, but that is an entirely different story).



I am planning on dropping 3 levels on Cleric to grab the Mystra feat, and then spending my epic feat on permanent AMF emanation.
I am also considering doing the astral travel cheese, with the nightmare (because fire horses are cool).

As I see it, there is a big problem with this: The Astral Projection of the Nightmare has no means of functioning in an AMF (Astral Projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/astralProjection.htm) can be broken by Dispel on the Astral Form, so it stands to reason that AMF will likewise suppress it).

This leads to a bizarre "blinking" situtation: when you activate your AMF in Astral Form, your Astral Form is immediately suppressed by the AMF, and hence blinks out. But since the AMF is tied to your astral form, the AMF also disappears. Without the AMF, your Astral Form blinks back in, and the whole cycle repeats itself.

So if you do decide to go down this route, you need some means of excluding yourself from your own AMF. Either the Extraordinary Spell Aim feat, or Spellguard of the Silverymoon Selective Spell.

Anyway, will your Wizard be going it alone, or are there other Party members which can help you out?

[Silva Stormrage]

Immunity to physical damage is simple.

Starmantle Cloak, be able to hit a DC 15 Reflex save and never take damage again (Note, may require use of Ring of Evasion).

Total cost: 150k for immunty to all weapons. And makes them explode. ...Technically includes natural weapons!

This doesn't work.

Text for evasion: "At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion."

A melee attack doesn't normally deal half damage on a successful reflex save. A star mantle cloak may make it so but normally it doesn't allow a save, thus evasion doesn't apply.

If you want immunity to damage go with the classic regeneration (Troll Blooded or some other way) + immunity to the vulnerable damage + immunity to non lethal damage. You can use persist shenanagins to do this as well.

[ivanbin]

Unfortunately, Ice Assassin specifically only creates copies of existing creatures, so unless a Deity has made an Aleax of yourself, this probably won't fly.

(You could *try* to make an Ice Assassin of a Deity, and order the IA Deity to *try* and make an Aleax of you, and then work from there, but that is an entirely different story).


As I see it, there is a big problem with this: The Astral Projection of the Nightmare has no means of functioning in an AMF (Astral Projection (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/astralProjection.htm) can be broken by Dispel on the Astral Form, so it stands to reason that AMF will likewise suppress it).

This leads to a bizarre "blinking" situtation: when you activate your AMF in Astral Form, your Astral Form is immediately suppressed by the AMF, and hence blinks out. But since the AMF is tied to your astral form, the AMF also disappears. Without the AMF, your Astral Form blinks back in, and the whole cycle repeats itself.

So if you do decide to go down this route, you need some means of excluding yourself from your own AMF. Either the Extraordinary Spell Aim feat, or Spellguard of the Silverymoon Selective Spell.

Anyway, will your Wizard be going it alone, or are there other Party members which can help you out?

But wont it be a spell I cast and thus not be affected by my AMF?

Also, I am considering maybe some Shadowcraft mage shenanigans.
I understand the basic premise, but can someone explain how the spell slots are allocated? Which spell slots do I have to use if I want to cast level 9 spells? (or do I just cheese metamagic reductions there and have my spell slot 1 spells count as level 10 spells (thus letting me cast level 9 spells))

[JeminiZero]

But wont it be a spell I cast and thus not be affected by my AMF?
You said you were doing Astral Projection with the Nightmare (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm), so I assumed that means you were using the Nightmare's Astral Projection.

If you are casting Astral Projection yourself (perfectly possible but watch the Material Component Cost), then your AP will function in an AMF (if you succeed on the Caster Level check), but in that case you don't need the Nightmare.

[ivanbin]

Question: If we take into account using dweomerkeeper, what spells would you recommend throwing at the opponent for maximum kill potential. So preferably something without saves, but SR: Yes is fine since we just bypass that.

[Extra Anchovies]

Ocular* Tenser's Transformation is a no-save, no-SR, no-descriptor, ranged-touch spell that causes the target to lose all spellcasting ability for 1 round/level. Instead, they get to be a fighter with a d4 hit die and no bonus feats. Best anti-caster debuff in the game. Doesn't clear their buff spells but that's easy enough when they're unable to cast.

*Ocular Spell is from Lords of Madness, p. 181.

[ivanbin]

Ocular* Tenser's Transformation is a no-save, no-SR, no-descriptor, ranged-touch spell that causes the target to lose all spellcasting ability for 1 round/level. Instead, they get to be a fighter with a d4 hit die and no bonus feats. Best anti-caster debuff in the game. Doesn't clear their buff spells but that's easy enough when they're unable to cast.

*Ocular Spell is from Lords of Madness, p. 181.

I thought Ocular spell wont work with spells that are personal range?

[ryu]

Ocular* Tenser's Transformation is a no-save, no-SR, no-descriptor, ranged-touch spell that causes the target to lose all spellcasting ability for 1 round/level. Instead, they get to be a fighter with a d4 hit die and no bonus feats. Best anti-caster debuff in the game. Doesn't clear their buff spells but that's easy enough when they're unable to cast.

*Ocular Spell is from Lords of Madness, p. 181.

So basically have contingent effects, win the touch AC optimization war or die? Sounds like a fun way to troll whole swaths of underoptimized casters.

[Extra Anchovies]

I thought Ocular spell wont work with spells that are personal range?

Not quite.

Only ray spells and spells with a target other than personal can be cast as ocular spells.
Range: Personal
Target: YouTT doesn't have a target of personal. It has a range of personal, and a target of "you". I don't think there are any spells with a target of personal, so it's clearly an error, but there was never any LoM errata so by RAW pretty much anything can be ocularized.

It's some major cheese, yes, but this is a 21st-level wizard here. If they haven't been making use of the cheese, they'd have died long ago to someone who has.

[AvatarVecna]

It's some major cheese, yes, but this is a 21st-level wizard here. If they haven't been making use of the cheese, they'd have died long ago to someone who has.

This. You're a Wizard 21. If you have Epic Spellcasting, you can using mitigating factors to craft spells of infinite capability. There is literally no way to take down a Wizard 21 with Epic Spellcasting who is taking full advantage of crafting their own custom Epic Spells, short of being a higher level Wizard with Epic Spellcasting.

[Rebel7284]

Craft Contingent Spell is also important in making an immortal wizard.

[Grooke]

Also, I am considering maybe some Shadowcraft mage shenanigans.
I understand the basic premise, but can someone explain how the spell slots are allocated? Which spell slots do I have to use if I want to cast level 9 spells? (or do I just cheese metamagic reductions there and have my spell slot 1 spells count as level 10 spells (thus letting me cast level 9 spells))

The most basic scenario (with just Heighten + Earth spell) will let you cast any Evocation or Conjuration Creation/Summon spell of level X from a lvl X spell slot.

For example, to cast a level 9 spell, you prepare Silent Image (lvl 1) Heightened to lvl 9 for a +8 cost (so 9th lvl slot), and Earth Spell boosts it to 10, allowing you to imitate a lvl 9.


If you reduce the cost of Heighten by Y, then you cast a lvl X spell with a X-Y spell slot. For example, using Metamagic School Focus will allow you to reduce the cost by 1. You'd then prepare Silent Image Heightened to lvl 9 for a +7 cost (so 8th lvl slot), and Earth spell boosts it to lvl 10.


You can't just use the metamagic reducers without Earth spell, because Heighten alone is limited to lvl 9.


Another way to cheese spell slot usage is by replacing the metamagic costs instead of reducing them. For example, Divine Metamagic Heighten, Tainted Sorcerer/Scholar, Spell Dancing...