Pistolero Dual-wielder?

[Darkynator]

Hi guys,
I really want to play this archetype of Gunslinger - Pistolero with two one-handed revolvers. What I am really worrying about is that build gonna miss really often because there is no Deadeye deed until you hit 7th level. So do you have any ideas how to build this character and it is not gonna be Mr. Miss? Thanks :smallsmile:

[Feint's End]

Hi guys,
I really want to play this archetype of Gunslinger - Pistolero with two one-handed revolvers. What I am really worrying about is that build gonna miss really often because there is no Deadeye deed until you hit 7th level. So do you have any ideas how to build this character and it is not gonna be Mr. Miss? Thanks :smallsmile:

The problem you will have much more often is reloading since you need one free hand. Of course there are ways around this but this should be the first thing you worry about (you'll shoot touch ac most of the time anyways).

[Xerlith]

Yeah, well, you may want to grab Mysterious Stranger (Stacks with Pistolero IIRC) and dip 2 levels of Bard (Juggler) ASAP. That solves the reloading problem, AND you get to look like Dante from DMC when reloading.

EDIT: Okay, they don't stack. Still, it may be worth to pick MS instead of Pistoler. YMMV.

[Feint's End]

Yeah, well, you may want to grab Mysterious Stranger (Stacks with Pistolero IIRC) and dip 2 levels of Bard (Juggler) ASAP. That solves the reloading problem, AND you get to look like Dante from DMC when reloading.

This is probably one of the best unargueably working ways. It is however true that just going Vanara (with perfect stats) or Tiefling (with prehensile tail and good stats with the right heritag) work out better if your dm is ok with the tail being able to reload your weapons. Not really sure if that should though.

Otherwise Dip into Aegis should work too (and use Astral Skin Form to be able to wear armor too).

Still Juggler on Mysterious Stranger Pistolero sounds awesome (albeit you'll have to wait quite some time until you get dex to damage).

edit: just checked and the archetypes do not stack. An open DM would probably allow it though with some modifications.

[Extra Anchovies]

First, a thing about Pistoleros - Signature Deed (Up Close and Deadly), no arguing. Getting that precision damage on every attack is just too strong.

Regarding not having deadeye? That's not an issue. You're back down to standard archery, which is effective enough in Pathfinder that you won't have a problem. If you're really concerned ask for the 3.5 version of Far Shot to get a 30 ft range increment.


This is probably one of the best unargueably working ways. It is however true that just going Vanara (with perfect stats) or Tiefling (with prehensile tail and good stats with the right heritag) work out better if your dm is ok with the tail being able to reload your weapons. Not really sure if that should though.

Seconding this. It's a swift action to retrieve a stowed item, but passing an object to or from your tail doesn't have a listed action type - it's pretty safe to assume it's a free action, just the same as putting a hand on or taking a hand off a two-handed weapon. Pass a gun to your tail, reload both guns with your free hand, pass it back.

[torrasque666]

I know gunslingers get a crazy number of shots, but how often is twelve shots not going to kill most of an encounter?

[Necroticplague]

Alternatively, if you're in a mid-high level game, you could play as a Pale Stranger, who don't need to reload (or worry about misfiring), and who treats pistols as light weapons, which should up your accuracy if you're dual-wielding them.

[grarrrg]

As stated, reloading is a MUCH bigger issue than accuracy.

TWF-options:
Races with a tail (Tiefling, Vanara, probably another one or two).

2 levels Juggler Bard archetype, effectively gives you an extra hand.
2 levels of Alchemist with Vestigial Arm Discovery, actually gives you an extra hand.
Certain other classes may have limited options (e.g. Witch's Prehensile Hair Hex).

Gun Twirling feat, lets you put away weapons as a Free Action (requires a decent feat investment).


Race is obviously the easiest option, and both main choices have decent stats (variant heritage for Tieflings).
Gun Twirling lets you go single-classed, but may not be worth the feat investment.
Mechanically I prefer Alchemist over Juggler, as you can use Mutagen to get a quick +4 DEX. Flavorfully you can't beat Juggler.

[Necroticplague]

I prefer to go Juggler bard, because when i got Alchemist, I always end up thinking "You know, I could be doing more damage if this extra arm was also holding a gun....." and then I'm back to square one, just with more pistols.

[grarrrg]

I prefer to go Juggler bard, because when i got Alchemist, I always end up thinking "You know, I could be doing more damage if this extra arm was also holding a gun....." and then I'm back to square one, just with more pistols.

Reminder: Vestigial Arms _NEVER_ give extra attacks in any way, shape, or form.
There's a whole FAQ dedicated to Vestigial Arms not attacking and everything.

[Necroticplague]

Reminder: Vestigial Arms _NEVER_ give extra attacks in any way, shape, or form.
There's a whole FAQ dedicated to Vestigial Arms not attacking and everything.

Mind showing me a link to that FAQ? It's specifically listed as being able to wield a weapon. The weapon being wielded is what gives me the attack, not the arm itself. I had assumed that text was to remind some dolts 'no, having more fists doesn't give you more unarmed attacks' (which is pretty strongly implicitly in the rules, but still a mistake I see some people make)

[grarrrg]

Mind showing me a link to that FAQ? It's specifically listed as being able to wield a weapon. The weapon being wielded is what gives me the attack, not the arm itself. I had assumed that text was to remind some dolts 'no, having more fists doesn't give you more unarmed attacks' (which is pretty strongly implicitly in the rules, but still a mistake I see some people make)

Linky to FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9rc5)


Alchemist, Tentacle/Vestigial Arm: What does "extra attacks" mean for these discoveries?
It means "extra," as in "more than you would be able to make if you didn't have that discovery.
The extra Arm is still allowed to make attacks, but then one of your other arms is not allowed to make any attacks that round.

You can still cheese the system some though.
TWF AND having a Shield-arm
TWF, having a Shield-arm, AND a free hand to cast Extracts/other
And, of course, having a Free Hand to TWF-Guns.

[Necroticplague]

Linky to FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9rc5)


The extra Arm is still allowed to make attacks, but then one of your other arms is not allowed to make any attacks that round.

You can still cheese the system some though.
TWF AND having a Shield-arm
TWF, having a Shield-arm, AND a free hand to cast Extracts/other
And, of course, having a Free Hand to TWF-Guns.

Huh. That seems......incredibly arbitrary.

[grarrrg]

Huh. That seems......incredibly arbitrary.

Yeah...I can see where they're coming from with the "too many attacks for cheap" angle. But it winds up a convoluted rules headache.


You can combine TWF and a 2-hander.
Normally you can use a 2-handed weapon.
Normally you can use your feat/head to make Unarmed attacks.
Normally you can use a 2-handed weapon as your primary, and Unarmed attacks as Secondary.
So an Alchemist with 3 arms can use a 2-hander primary, Light weapon secondary, and be perfectly legal.
An Alchemist with 4 arms can TWF with TWO 2-handers (although the to-hit penalty probably isn't worth it).

Also, 2-hands use a Reach weapon, the 3rd has a non-reach weapon. On your turn you make your Full attack "as normal" with either weapon. When it is not your turn, you threaten EVERYTHING.

No, the biggest mistake was saying that it could make attacks at all.
Rewording it to function similar to a Prehensile tail would be a start.
Wording it along the lines of "this arm can only be used to make/use Extracts and hold, but not use, items"
Heck, just flat out "this arm cannot be used to make attacks" would be a LOT clearer than the cluster confusion that is that FAQ.

[Yanisa]

Did they errata the text, because the line on the d20fpsrd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/vestigial-arm-ex) doesn't sound super confusion.


The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting).

Then again Unchained Monk (in regards to extra attacks, TWF, natural attacks) got a lot of confusion too, so they haven't learned from it.

[Necroticplague]

Part I find wierdest about that FAQ:
"An extra attack is too much for a second level alchemist"
*quietly ignores Feral Mutagen giving three*

[Yanisa]

Part I find wierdest about that FAQ:
"An extra attack is too much for a second level alchemist"
*quietly ignores Feral Mutagen giving three*

But that only lasts 10 minutes per level, so it wouldn't effect every combat unless your alchemist spends an hour after combat making a new mutagen. :smalltongue:

[grarrrg]

Did they errata the text, because the line on the d20fpsrd (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/vestigial-arm-ex) doesn't sound super confusion.

The actual text of the ability is fairly straight forward. I was referring to how the FAQ (and the fact that they needed a FAQ) turns it into a convoluted mess.