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View Full Version : 3rd Ed HD yo-yo: Abusing lycanthropy for fun and profit



Flickerdart
2015-06-10, 09:47 AM
I realized something the other day when trying to figure out how to early-entry into Mindbender - it's possible to do it as early as level 2 by using lycanthropy. A were-ape wizard (or a wizard who is a lycanthrope of any other animal with 4+ HD) can use Practiced Spellcaster to qualify for Mindbender, take four levels, and then get himself cured of lycanthropy with a simple remove curse to revert to a wizard 1/mindbender 4.

Obviously, this could be used to cheese other prerequisites - dropping a few filler HDs into an arbitrary place in your build and then removing them should allow you to cherry-pick classes early for any game that starts at a late enough level. This doesn't work as well for feats since you need to pick them up as class-granted bonus feats for them not to revert along with your HD - and you can just do that at the right time anyway. Any PrC with BAB or CL prerequisites works excellently though since it can be used to qualify for itself. A 1st level character that becomes a were-shark (a total of 8 HD and BAB of +7) can immediately enter Divine Crusader upon reaching level 9, take 10 levels of Divine Crusader, and then get cured to become an 11th level character with 9th level spells. He has a BAB of +8 and so still qualifies for the PrC.

It works superbly for ardents - an ardent of any level (let's say 1) can take Practiced Manifester, get infected by an ape lycanthrope, gain another level, learn his allotted powers (as appropriate for a 6th level ardent) and then get cured. He can't manifest the power he learned yet, but it lets him load up on valuable powers early and skip mandatory low-level stinkers, especially in crappy mantles.

What other shenanigans can we get up to, assuming that the hypothetical DM accepts "I was a werewolf in my backstory"?

WhamBamSam
2015-06-10, 01:41 PM
There was a thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?401453-Using-Lyconthropy-for-early-entry) about this very trick a while back.

You can accomplish a number of things this, but the one big thing that you can't break in any other way is BAB prerequisites. For things like breaking the skill cap there's Inspire Greatness+Psychic Reformation or (maybe) Bloodline cheese, and caster early entry is of course well explored (though this is likely a more potent way to meet CL-based prereqs, like the Mindbender example you referenced) but this seems like just about the only thing that can get you around BAB prereqs in WotC published material.

Flickerdart
2015-06-10, 03:36 PM
Oh nice, thanks for the link.

I am wondering if there's some benefit to relapsing into lycanthropy, or if you don't really get anything new. So if our wizard 1/mindbender 4 suddenly found himself a were-ape again, is that more advantageous than just taking an 8 HD monster to start with? Aside from the fact that animals become Huge (and thus ineligible) around that mark, of course.