Monster Creation Guidelines DMG

[Baptor]

So I finally got around to the part of the DMG that helps you build monsters. According to it there is a handy chart with "ready to go" stats if you want a "quick monster."

So...does anyone else find that chart a bit...off? Does anyone else notice the hit points jumping a ridiculous amount before we even get to a CR 1? I've been making custom mobs with my own set of rules for awhile and while I admit they have flaws, this chart seems absurd to me.

Anyone else having trouble with this chart or am I really off on this one?

[Safety Sword]

I haven't had any issues with it. BY the time characters are 4th or 5th Level they can output pretty good damage. Monsters require lots of hit points to be relevant.

Since a couple of CR 1 creatures are supposed to be a decent challenge for a party of around that level it seems to work out OK.

[Wartex1]

It is near-universally agreed that the guidelines suck, since it doesn't factor in other abilities.

Generally build monsters by using actual monsters of that CR as a template. It goes better.

[Safety Sword]

It is near-universally agreed that the guidelines suck, since it doesn't factor in other abilities.

Generally build monsters by using actual monsters of that CR as a template. It goes better.

What do you mean by "other abilities"?

[Giant2005]

Those HP values do seem rather out of place as they are but maybe the chart in the DMG is supposed to represent the max HP? If it is the max, it is pretty much where it should be.

[Wartex1]

Other abilities are anything that's not AC, Primary Attacks (Claws and bites, but not stuff like breath weapons), and HP.

[Chaosvii7]

Other abilities are anything that's not AC, Primary Attacks (Claws and bites, but not stuff like breath weapons), and HP.

That'd be a logical complaint if, not two pages away from the rules for creating custom monsters, there is a whole chart that tells you what monster abilities do to modify CR. Sure, it doesn't work with custom abilities, though you should be able to gauge them for yourself if you made them, but it has just about every unique trait in the Monster Manual.

That said, it does have flaws - namely in that I think it should suggest the max ability score for each CR. It's hard to decide upon the roof of ability scores because they play such a major role in determining Offensive and Defensive AC that it's a pain to change them. Knowing that I shouldn't find myself going above a certain score at any CR would help get an idea of how to balance them out.

[Safety Sword]

That'd be a logical complaint if, not two pages away from the rules for creating custom monsters, there is a whole chart that tells you what monster abilities do to modify CR. Sure, it doesn't work with custom abilities, though you should be able to gauge them for yourself if you made them, but it has just about every unique trait in the Monster Manual.

That said, it does have flaws - namely in that I think it should suggest the max ability score for each CR. It's hard to decide upon the roof of ability scores because they play such a major role in determining Offensive and Defensive AC that it's a pain to change them. Knowing that I shouldn't find myself going above a certain score at any CR would help get an idea of how to balance them out.

This. Again, haven't had any significant issues with the guidelines being too far off.

[Chaosvii7]

This. Again, haven't had any significant issues with the guidelines being too far off.

I've made handfuls of custom NPCs for the finale of Rise of Tiamat using the system and they've all come out at the CR I wanted them to, and feel about as effective as they should be. I got to test drive one tonight and I think it's in a good spot.

[Demonic Spoon]

It is near-universally agreed that the guidelines suck, since it doesn't factor in other abilities.

Generally build monsters by using actual monsters of that CR as a template. It goes better.


It's not even close to agreed. Some people just don't understand that guidelines are guidelines; a starting point. Monster design is not and cannot be so simplistic that you can turn off your brain and give absurd abilities to creatures without affecting their CR.

I use the DMG guidelines for monster creation very frequently and am rarely disappointed with the results.


So...does anyone else find that chart a bit...off? Does anyone else notice the hit points jumping a ridiculous amount before we even get to a CR 1? I've been making custom mobs with my own set of rules for awhile and while I admit they have flaws, this chart seems absurd to me.


Keep in mind that there's a very big gap in power between CR 1/8 and CR 1/4, or 1/4 and 1/2. There's no nearly so big a difference in power between, say, CR 3 and CR 4. This is just a symptom of CR not being all that granular for very weak creatures.

[DragonLordIT]

I use the tables and no problem with them, I simply evaluate the final monster and decide if the CR fits and may be correct it a little.
As general way of creating them a nice monster come out if it has a higher offensive CR than defensive CR and the averange is the final, otherwise you'll have a boring bottle of XPS that do nothing.:smallsmile: