New to D&D need some help

[darthfey]

hello playground I have been invited to my first D&D Champaign it starts next week and I have to build a 5th level high power character.

some background because that probably seems weird I have been a table top gamer for years and I often a part of events at local gaming shops and the like but I have never play actual D&D before mostly I have played white wolf games of one strip or another.

I am looking for something relatively simple to run so not say a wizard or archivist with a million spells to select threw.
all books are available its 3.5 D&D we are level with standard wealth for that level.

any help would be appreciated and sorry for the weird spacing wrote this one my phone.

[Extra Anchovies]

What's the rest of your party, if you know?

And how high-powered is this game?

[darthfey]

for reasons I don't totally understand something in his story I presume we are not allowed to know what each other are playing until the first session.

as to how high power I am not totally sure but he made a point of emphasising high power so I figured I should as well.

[OldTrees1]

High-powered might refer to 32 point buy. (since the point buy table labels are low-powered, challenging, tougher, and high-powered)


Are the other players similarly or relatively new to D&D? If so then you probably could make just about any 32 point buy ECL 5(5th level) character that you want.


I might suggest looking in the Tome of Battle if you want a warrior (while they are not to everyone's tastes they seem to fit most tastes)

For a caster I would suggest either a Beguiler (Player's Handbook II) or a Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror) since they have spontaneous casting but know their entire spell list so there is no selecting of spells to worry about.

[Aleolus]

If you have access to it, I would recommend using Magic of Incarnum. Gives you all the flexibility of a Cleric or Wizard, without needing to worry about daily use limits or the like

[Bad Wolf]

Got any idea of what you want to play?

[nintendoh]

Did he say what type of campaign it is. Somehow i doubt that a dread necro, who is a very good class indeed, would be very good in a cityscape diplomatic quest.

[OldTrees1]

Did he say what type of campaign it is. Somehow i doubt that a dread necro, who is a very good class indeed, would be very good in a cityscape diplomatic quest.

Good point (although a charismatic intimidating debuffing mage like a Dread Necromancer would handle such a quest fairly well)

[darthfey]

with the exception of me they are all very experienced players and optimizers.
I wanted to play some form of spell caster or at least something none mundane so not a rogue fighter ranger or monk .
oh I am very sure he meant optimized characters I double checked that also we were given states well sort of we were given 18, 14, 16, 12, 15, 10, that can be placed in any order for are ability points.

oh also I have access to all the 3.5 books my room mate has them all. ( he was suppose to help me build this guy but had to leave town)

[Aleolus]

Still sticking with my incarnum suggestion. Very unique flavor, you can change what your soulmelds are to suit what you are expecting to face that day, and you can shift your essentia around on a round by round basis to gain the best bonuses where you need them

[OldTrees1]

with the exception of me they are all very experienced players and optimizers.
I wanted to play some form of spell caster or at least something none mundane so not a rogue fighter ranger or monk .
oh I am very sure he meant optimized characters I double checked that also we were given states well sort of we were given 18, 14, 16, 12, 15, 10, that can be placed in any order for are ability points.

oh also I have access to all the 3.5 books my room mate has them all. ( he was suppose to help me build this guy but had to leave town)

Hm. So with that ability array "high-powered" was referring to optimization level rather than point buy amount. Given the others being experienced optimizers that would hint at somewhere around this forum's normal optimization level(maybe a shade lower or higher). More likely a shade lower since the DM knows you are new but was not clearer about how high powered.

Given that and that you wanted a caster, I would either suggest either one of the Tier 3 fixed list classes(Beguiler and Dread Necromancer) or a Tier 1 prepared caster(Archivist, Cleric, Druid, or Wizard) since it is rather easy to mess up a limited number of spells know caster(Bard, Sorcerer) when you don't know what optimization level to aim at.

[Bad Wolf]

with the exception of me they are all very experienced players and optimizers.
I wanted to play some form of spell caster or at least something none mundane so not a rogue fighter ranger or monk .
oh I am very sure he meant optimized characters I double checked that also we were given states well sort of we were given 18, 14, 16, 12, 15, 10, that can be placed in any order for are ability points.

oh also I have access to all the 3.5 books my room mate has them all. ( he was suppose to help me build this guy but had to leave town)

Warlock, perhaps? Could be fun.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I think the best option here would be having darthfey tell us what he wants to play and then we can start thinking on how to make it powerful.

[Bad Wolf]

I think the best option here would be having darthfey tell us what he wants to play and then we can start thinking on how to make it powerful.

He seems pretty new, said he wanted a caster.

[darthfey]

so after looking threw some of the books I am thinking either a warlock, or a druid. they both seem interesting warlock seems simpler to run druid more powerful over all. oh and I was chatting with one of the other players and he said the DM plans adventures assuming players are around the strength of clericzilla if that helps for how optimised.

[OldTrees1]

That is quite a deep pool you are being thrown in darthfey. If the standard is a clericzilla (a self buffing cleric that ends up stronger at martial combat than martial classes) then you should probably go for a druidzilla (a self buffing druid) since a warlock would not keep up.

[Aleolus]

Under those circumstances, I agree. I would also recommend taking Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning right off the bat, plus Natural Spell if the DM permits it at level 5. If not, then take it as your 6th level feat.

[Bad Wolf]

Druid might be a tad too complicated for a newbie, with the prepared casting and wild shape forms.

Though if you go warlock, you could also pick up a few cleric levels and go Eldritch Disciple, which is a decent choice.

[Mystral]

so after looking threw some of the books I am thinking either a warlock, or a druid. they both seem interesting warlock seems simpler to run druid more powerful over all. oh and I was chatting with one of the other players and he said the DM plans adventures assuming players are around the strength of clericzilla if that helps for how optimised.

I'd suggest you go with an earlier suggestion and play a beguiler. That way, you have many usefull spells explicable to nearly every situation, and many tricks up your sleeve without you having to memorise too much.

Druidzilla would need a lot of knowledge, knowing which monsters you should change into for various situations, and the druid spell list is quite expansive.

Failing the beguiler, how about a mailman sorcerer? (A sorcerer that specialises in dealing damage with meta magic)

[jiriku]

Welcome to the Playground!

I strongly recommend druid. The thing about druid is that almost all of your strength comes from your choice of spells, your choice of animal companions and your choice of wild shape form. And for all of these choices, if you screw them up, you can quickly make new choices within a day or two. It is a very forgiving class. Read the druid handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=940.0) to get a jump start on how to win with druids.

I appreciate that you want something very simple to run. Unfortunately, at the power level that your group appears to be playing at, none of the simple classes will hold their own in the hands of an inexperienced player. Druid is complicated, but it has a high potential ceiling of power and it lets you try new things over and over again until you find what works. New players in my games often do well with druids, and I can definitely recommend the class to you.

[Bullet06320]

high powered 5th level, all books available
any idea how much magic items are available?
if you don't know maybe vow of poverty druid is a viable option
taking 2 flaws from unearthed arcana to get back the feats lost for VoP
i'm actually toying around with the idea of running one soon my self, waiting on eggynack to release his druid guide tho

[bekeleven]

If you have access to it, I would recommend using Magic of Incarnum. Gives you all the flexibility of a Cleric or Wizard, without needing to worry about daily use limits or the like
I've been playing this game for over a decade and that book still mystifies me. I'd never dream of inflicting it on a newbie. Just creating a level 1 incarnate somehow requires referencing, what, 50 different pages?

high powered 5th level, all books available
any idea how much magic items are available?
if you don't know maybe vow of poverty druid is a viable option
taking 2 flaws from unearthed arcana to get back the feats lost for VoP
i'm actually toying around with the idea of running one soon my self, waiting on eggynack to release his druid guide tho

VoP doesn't help a druid so much as simplify him without hurting too badly.

If you're not:

Rather Low-Wealth
Low-Magic
Incarnum
Druid playing around a GM-ban of Wilding Clasps


Vow of poverty is bad. Under any of these circumstnaces, it's only often bad, assuming your GM sanely houserules away the worst of its problems.

If you're planning on making a druid, IMO I'd decide if you want to be a melee, a summoner, or a generalist. A summoner takes feats like Greenbound/Ashbound Summoning, etc. A Melee character would consider martial feats like (some) wild feats, power attack and stand still. Both of them, as well as generalists, should consider versatile, high-powered feats like extend spell and Natural Spell.

[Karl Aegis]

Did your friends tell you D&D 3.5e is math presented as a game? They should probably tell you the entire game is math upon math.

As for a build, I would suggest going for a swiftblade build (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327) entering as either a focused specialist transmuter wizard or a beguiler. You will spend most of your spells on Haste. Beguilers have a better entry into Swiftblade, but a focused transmuter can actually cast haste at level 5. Take beguiler if you want to wear a mithril breastplate and call yourself an armamentalist or take transmuter if you want to walk around in armor made of light and call yourself a gish.

[Andezzar]

Though if you go warlock, you could also pick up a few cleric levels and go Eldritch Disciple, which is a decent choice.Warlock 4/Binder 1/Ur-Priest 2/Hellfire Warlock 3/Eldritch Disciple 10 (not necessarily in that order) will probably be more powerful.

[Janthkin]

I'd suggest you go with an earlier suggestion and play a beguiler. That way, you have many usefull spells explicable to nearly every situation, and many tricks up your sleeve without you having to memorise too much. I'd second this. Play a Gnome Beguiler, and you can plan for an entry into Shadowcraft Mage (from Races of Stone) in a few levels, after you begin to understand the game & the DM's playstyle. Meanwhile, the Beguiler has enough diversity of skills to be interesting, enough diversity of spells to be fairly useful throughout, and enough survival tricks to keep you alive until you do begin to gain system mastery.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Duskblade is not a bad choice either. Simple to play, gets some spells, and has good offensive presence.

[Hiro Quester]

Seconding Druid. Powerful. Flexible (can fill many different roles, depending on the rest of the party).

A bit complicated to run, but easy to change as you learn more. So very flexible for learning 3.5.

Any day you can prepare different spells, from any Druid spell in the books. You can replace your AC with a different one in 24 hours. You can wildshape into many different creatures. You can spontaneously convert any spell into a summon nature's ally, giving you enormous flexibility no matter what spells you prepared. If you always prepare speak with animals, and learn the languages of all elemental forms, you can give summoned creatures very specific instructions.

The Druid handbook Jiriku linked will be a good guide. PH 2 has a good list of the options for animal companions from various books.

Put the 18 in wis, 16 in con (for hit points). 15 int (for skills) 14 cha, 12 Dex 10 str. Wildshape replaces your physical stats, but your original Con sets your hit points. Maybe reverse CHA and Dex, for initiative and reflex saves and if another party member plays the face role.

A race with a Con bonus and a strength penalty can help here bumping your Con to 18 makes you much hardier in terms of hit points. (I'm playing a forest gnome (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnome.htm) Druid right now. Some useful SLAs, and you lose 1/day speak with burrowing mammals to gain a language that enables simple communication with Forest creatures.)

At level 5 you will specialize in summoning (take augment summoning feat), buffing (barkskin and bulls strength on the party tank) and battlefield control. A bit of wildshaped melee if you run low on spells. But best to save that until after you take Natural Spell at 6th level. Before that save wildshape for out of combat utility or scouting.

Get a dire bat animal companion and fly above the fray dropping summoned crocodiles and entangle spells, then calling lightning and summoned bat swarms to deal with entangled enemies.

At 7th level trade AC for a brown bear or tiger.

After 8 level you get large wildshape forms, and can switch roles to add melee damage dealer.

Overall you have lots of power and enough flexibility to try options and change them as you learn.

[Ruslan]

Druid is probably the most bookkeeping-intensive class in the game. Just thought you may want to know that before you actually play one. You need to keep tabs on:

- All Druid spells (of levels you can cast), since on any given day you can prepare any spell from the Druid list.
- All possible animal Wild Shapes, of which there are a lot in multiple Monster Manuals, and how each Wild Shape affects your saves, AC, ability scores, speed, damage, skills, etc.
- All possible monsters you can summon, of which, again, there are a lot, with detailed stats for each monster. If you have something like Augment Summoning that modifies the monster's stats, be sure to account for that too...

You're going to need a thick stack of index cards.

[jiriku]

Druid is probably the most bookkeeping-intensive class in the game. Just thought you may want to know that before you actually play one. You need to keep tabs on:

- All Druid spells (of levels you can cast), since on any given day you can prepare any spell from the Druid list.
- All possible animal Wild Shapes, of which there are a lot in multiple Monster Manuals, and how each Wild Shape affects your saves, AC, ability scores, speed, damage, skills, etc.
- All possible monsters you can summon, of which, again, there are a lot, with detailed stats for each monster. If you have something like Augment Summoning that modifies the monster's stats, be sure to account for that too...

You're going to need a thick stack of index cards.

I'd like to clarify that you can keep track of all those things, but it is not strictly necessary. For example, instead of tracking all possible wild shapes, you could refer to the druid handbook, choose the best combat form and the fastest flying form, and track only those two. Being ready to use more forms is good, but it's really not a good use of your time to stat out your fifth-best grappling form or your seventh-best aquatic shape.
Likewise with spells and summoned monsters, it's perfectly fine to start small with a few favorite choices, then gradually add more, proceeding only at the pace with which you are comfortable.

[Keltest]

If I may be so bold, I would suggest asking your DM about what he means by "high power". As was pointed out, if youre in a heavily diplomatic campaign, the ability to bend reality around with your fingers and smirk aren't especially helpful if you cant convince anyone of anything. Power is relative.

[Hiro Quester]

I'd like to clarify that you can keep track of all those things, but it is not strictly necessary. For example, instead of tracking all possible wild shapes, you could refer to the druid handbook, choose the best combat form and the fastest flying form, and track only those two. Being ready to use more forms is good, but it's really not a good use of your time to stat out your fifth-best grappling form or your seventh-best aquatic shape.
Likewise with spells and summoned monsters, it's perfectly fine to start small with a few favorite choices, then gradually add more, proceeding only at the pace with which you are comfortable.

This. Learn and make a character sheet for three or four wildshape forms (melee attack, melee defense, flying, swimming) and your best each of combat damage dealer, grappler, defense, aerial, swimming, and utility Summon Nature's Ally creatures.

You only need to learn a few spells, and the guidebook can recommend some of the most likely candidates. Learn more as you progress.

You can have a lot of options and power, and make very few unrecoverable mistakes in character creation and progression, as a Druid.

Edit:
Another alternative is using a laptop. I use one with The Only Sheet ($20/year license), that has plugins that enable you to have up to 24 different wildshape forms. Select the relevant one and presto, your stats automatically update. Also handles buff spells, conditions etc. Also different animal companions.

I also have an excel spreadsheet that generates summoned animal character sheets. I adapted it from one that was posted ona web sites few years ago, but the host site has since disappeared. It was originslly set up for animal companions, but I adapted it for all your summoned creatures. (PM me with an email address and I'll happily share it.). It easily incorporates augment summoning, imbued summoning buffs,even animal growth.

Even if you don't use a laptop it an generate the charatcter sheets you prepare and bring to the table.