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Thrawn4
2015-06-11, 07:55 AM
In many rpgs, players try to carry as much as loot as possible, picking up not only gems but also broken pickaxes for scrab value. On the other hand, there is not always a demand for broken swords if there is only a small peaceful village, and sometimes I doubt that there is even a market for intact weapons of unknown quality. A weaponsmith would not resell inferior items (I guess), although there might me some merchant or smuggler who might. A common solution is that player characters can sell loot at half list price, but I am not sure whether this is the best way to go.
How do other DMs handle this?

Yora
2015-06-11, 08:04 AM
I don't bother with coins at all. Unless they somehow ended up completely broke because of recent events, PCs are able to get anything of trivial price, within reason. The only treasures worth mentioning are bags of gold, boxes with jewelry, big gems, and sacred idols. These are generally worth as much as a magic potion. Magic weapons and armor have no market prices in money. They are always gifts, rewards, or loot.

Vitruviansquid
2015-06-11, 08:09 AM
Play a system where this is unnecessary, or modify your system to make it unnecessary. Many systems don't have you keep track of individual pieces of currency, so this messing around with broken swords isn't productive.

If it is impossible or otherwise undesirable to change systems or change your system, you could always just tell your players straight-up "if there's something valuable to loot, I'll tell you" or "those broken swords have no value" or "just make a Find Loot (or analogue) roll and I'll tell you how much valuable junk you manage to scrounge up."

Saladman
2015-06-11, 08:47 AM
I do useable equipment 50% of list, or sometimes higher if it's in demand. Scrap or junk value at 10-20% of list price, once you reach a buyer. I don't make it worthless or tell people not to bother because that takes a choice away from the players - take the time to scrounge for coppers, or move quicker and pass on the small stuff.

There's always a buyer for arms and armor in my worlds, but it'll be a merchant or agent, not the village smith. Smiths as storefronts are an rpg/computer game abstraction that needs to die in a fire.

Maglubiyet
2015-06-11, 08:50 AM
This was never a problem until computer games started allowing you to sell junk to vendors. Then everything became fair game. You'd go out and fill your bags to carrying capacity with rocks, broken skulls, and flowers. Haul everything back to town, sell it for a few silver, then head out again.

Some people have brought this back to TTRPG's. I don't like games to be about accounting and profiteering. Generally, if someone wants to buy something, they can -- the only limiting factor is whether it's available.

LibraryOgre
2015-06-11, 09:06 AM
Yeah, I more or less have the merchants look at them like they're crazy. Now, Quarrytown (in the excellent Frandor's Keep setting for Hackmaster) does have an explicit junk dealer, so you might get a little, but he's also crazy, so....

Lord Torath
2015-06-11, 09:32 AM
Be sure to enforce encumbrance on your PCs. That being said, let the PCs scrounge as they like. After a few trips of getting a few silvers per pound of scrap, they may decide to ignore the cheap stuff in favor of more valuable loot. Most smiths (black, armor, or weapon) will not turn up their nose at additional metal. They may not pay more than 10% of base cost, but a smith's good will could be worth more than that (depending, of course, on what type of characters your players are playing).

If, after clearing out the dungeon of monsters, the group wants to go back with a cart to clean up, make it a non-adventure. "After ten days of collecting scrap, you return to the village. After subtracting expenses of food and torches (dependent on the availability of Create/Food Water and Continual Light Spells) your net profit on the sale of the scrap is 5 gp. A man in mayoral livery approaches and says the mayor has a plot hook for you."

Thrawn4
2015-06-11, 09:40 AM
I am actually surprised that so many seem to neglect the amount of money that the players have. I mean, yes, it is bothersome to decuct three copper coins everytime a player orders a beer, and I don't do it either because it is not worthwhile. And in certain systems it makes sense, e. g. Vampire the Masquerade, because selling a few more items doesn't change anything in the long run as you have a certain standard of living that is not influenced by selling a few shotguns.
But I think that in fantasy games it is actually important to know whether the players can afford another health potion or a horse. If you think about the rammifications of a medieval setting (no bank, no infrastructure, no regular income) a money rating as in Vampire does not make that much sense. Or does it? I am honestly not sure about this. I mean regular income is only something for nobility and maybe members of an organization...

Also: If you actually use a money rating, how do you decide how many health potions (it's just an example) the players have available? What's stopping the players from stacking up on all kinds of potions, lockpicks etc. except for weight capacity?

Keltest
2015-06-11, 09:48 AM
Just make it clear to your PCs that just because they want to sell something doesn't mean theres a market for it. Broken tools could conceivably be scavenged for some usable parts (reduce the price further if the buyer has to do so themselves), but youre never going to sell, say, a broken chair to anyone because theres no market for splintery wood.

Maglubiyet
2015-06-11, 11:53 AM
Also: If you actually use a money rating, how do you decide how many health potions (it's just an example) the players have available? What's stopping the players from stacking up on all kinds of potions, lockpicks etc. except for weight capacity?

Availability and necessity. They might want to fill their packs with healing potions, but the local apothecary may only have two for sale. When they're hearing up to take on the big bad, though, some kindly alchemist may open up his personal reserves for them.


Just make it clear to your PCs that just because they want to sell something doesn't mean theres a market for it. Broken tools could conceivably be scavenged for some usable parts (reduce the price further if the buyer has to do so themselves), but youre never going to sell, say, a broken chair to anyone because theres no market for splintery wood.

It's a sad day when the party becomes eligible to appear on an episode of Extreme Hoarders.

JeenLeen
2015-06-11, 11:57 AM
If D&D, I would generally say that random junk does not have value, or it has a value and you can say you got it, but that balances out your day-to-day food and miscellaneous purchases. I think it's fine if they loot swords, armor, etc. -- that's part of the game that is D&D. But if they're looking scrap metal from an abandoned smith's workshop, then I'd probably tell them out-of-character it's fine if they want to for RP purposes, but the mechanical benefit is limited. In the last D&D game I DMed, the players wound up just not caring about copper and silver once they got to level 3 or 4, and I followed suit.

I think it should boil down to what is fun. You shouldn't allow them to abuse finding junk in a way that puts more burden (and probably less fun) on you as DM, but they probably would find it freeing to hear that there is no benefit to such scrounging. I at least would (and have) in similar gaming situations as a player. If your players are annoying you in their actions, or getting annoyed at you not pricing random gear, talk to them.
I think a good medium way is the idea of a "Roll x to loot random stuff and barter" or the idea about doing it off-camera, such as after you clear a dungeon.

I prefer games (and find it easier to run them) when money is abstracted, like Vampire or Exalted, but such a system doesn't generally work with D&D since, in D&D, wealth is directly correlated to power in almost every meaning, since you can buy magic items. If either can't buy magic gear in Vampire/Exalted, or doing so is probably in the millions and enough to drastically change your own financial situation (effectively trading dots in Resources for dots in Artifact, which is a 'fair' trade in power.)

Knaight
2015-06-11, 11:58 AM
But I think that in fantasy games it is actually important to know whether the players can afford another health potion or a horse. If you think about the rammifications of a medieval setting (no bank, no infrastructure, no regular income) a money rating as in Vampire does not make that much sense. Or does it? I am honestly not sure about this. I mean regular income is only something for nobility and maybe members of an organization...

Sure, but this doesn't necessarily mean that you track every single coin. Also, as for your ramifications of a medieval setting - banks were very much around (there were some huge ones by the late medieval period), there was plenty of infrastructure, and pretty much everyone had some variety of regular income, though it did fluctuate pretty heavily.

Keltest
2015-06-11, 12:07 PM
Sure, but this doesn't necessarily mean that you track every single coin. Also, as for your ramifications of a medieval setting - banks were very much around (there were some huge ones by the late medieval period), there was plenty of infrastructure, and pretty much everyone had some variety of regular income, though it did fluctuate pretty heavily.

If you need a bank, dwarves are always a good option. Theyre rather well known for keeping good track of "their" coin, yet also honest enough that you could trust them with it. As a race they also usually get along well enough that you could conceivably have a branch of the bank anywhere near any substantial group of dwarves.

LibraryOgre
2015-06-11, 02:12 PM
Sure, but this doesn't necessarily mean that you track every single coin. Also, as for your ramifications of a medieval setting - banks were very much around (there were some huge ones by the late medieval period), there was plenty of infrastructure, and pretty much everyone had some variety of regular income, though it did fluctuate pretty heavily.

In the Forgotten Realms, I have the priests of Waukeen, goddess of trade, serve as a bank. They'll also serve as liasons between those who wish to invest and those with money.

Maglubiyet
2015-06-11, 03:39 PM
If you need a bank, dwarves are always a good option. Theyre rather well known for keeping good track of "their" coin, yet also honest enough that you could trust them with it. As a race they also usually get along well enough that you could conceivably have a branch of the bank anywhere near any substantial group of dwarves.

Eberron's got the dwarves of House Kundarak (sp?) that maintain the banking system. You can deposit and withdraw coin in any large city. IIRC they even have extra-dimensional safety deposit boxes that allow you to retrieve an item at any bank location.