Best fighter feats

[Elandris Kajar]

As title. Which fears are worth taking as a fighter?
Power attack
Improved trip
What else?

[jiriku]

Robilar's Gambit and Stormguard Warrior are both godly on the right kind of fighter build, but you do need to build your character carefully to take full advantage of them.

Edit: Martial Study and Martial Stance can be used to snag some excellent abilities, such as Martial Spirit, Thicket of Blades, Shadow Stride, White Raven Tactics, or Iron Heart Surge.

[Extra Anchovies]

It depends on your build goal, allowed books, starting level, and whether you're using 3.5 or Pathfinder. All of those would be good to know.

[Aleolus]

Improved Toughness. I take this feat for every warrior type character I make, ever.

[Elandris Kajar]

3.5 this is general really, and books allowed are:
Sandstorm
Comp div war and adventurer
DMG two
BoED
UA
FC one

Edit: I could barely think yesterday.


Expanded booklist:

LoM
DRaconomicon
MoI
PHB 2
XPH
AEG

[OldTrees1]

Let's see:
Power Attack
Improved Bullrush
Knockback
Shock Trooper(lets you direct your knockbacks)
Three Mountains (requires weapon focus, not a fighter bonus feat)
Combat Reflexes
Evasive Reflexes
Improved Trip (low int characters can skip Combat Expertise via Wolf Totem Barbarian)
Imperious Command (requires Intimidate, not a fighter bonus feat)
Staggering Strike (requires Sneak Attack +1d6, not a fighter bonus feat)
Robilar's Gambit
Karmic Strike (weaker lower level form of Robilar's, requires Combat Expertise and Dodge, not a fighter bonus feat)
Shape Soulmeld (not a fighter bonus feat)

Edit: Some of these are not in those approved books.

Note: Do not take Martial Study or Martial Stance. Take 1-2 levels of Crusader/Swordsage/Warblade instead. Just time the level right so that your IL is high enough to get what you want.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Improved Toughness. I take this feat for every warrior type character I make, ever.

Goodness no. It is terrible; 1 hp/level is going to get you nowhere quickly. You are better off taking feats that make the enemy die faster. Dead enemy = no hp damage.

Personally I almost always end up as a Zentarim Thug Dunegoncrasher so I am not entirely familiar with the concept of "fighter bonus feat."

[OldTrees1]

Personally I almost always end up as a Zentarim Thug Dunegoncrasher so I am not entirely familiar with the concept of "fighter bonus feat."

Yeah, Zhentarim Soldier, Thug, and even Dungeoncrasher really help a lot.
Although Martial Rogue(Medium BAB and great skill list/#skill points version of Fighter) is another solid option.

[jiriku]

3.5 this is general really, and books allowed are:
Sandstorm
Comp div war and adventurer
Dang two
BoED
UA
FC one

Ok. That's harder. Let's see. I'm going to interpret your question broadly and look at feats in those books that are good for fighters, even though they may not be fighter bonus feats.


In Sandstorm, Scorpion's Resolve is a nominally decent defensive feat. Touchstone is potentially excellent, since you can select from among a large number of base abilities from various touchstone locations. Especially at very low levels, you can get a daily SLA that's higher level than anything the casters in your party can do.

Complete Divine has nothing for you.

Complete Warrior has Improved Toughness, Karmic Strike, Combat Brute, and Three Mountains, which are ok. Shock Trooper is very good if you want to be a charger.

Complete Adventurer offers Brutal Throw, and Leap Attack, both good in the right build. Staggering Strike is very good, but you'll need to jump through hoops to qualify for it and use it.

I don't know what "Dang two" is. If that's DMG 2, get to know the bonded item rules, and use them heavily.

Book of Exalted Deeds brings you Ancestral Relic (really good) and Nymph's Kiss (less good but it does shore up a weakness of the fighter by bringing more skill points to the table).

Unearthed Arcana brings you Item Familiar. Take it.

Fiendish Codex doesn't really have anything worth getting excited about.


So, overall with those sources, I see the potential for a strong charger build centered around Power Attac/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper. You could give yourself a really nice boost by taking Item Familiar and Ancestral Relic. These feats both provide a route for getting double value from your WBL, which means you get early access to powerful magical abilities. Bonded items from DMG 2 are also good for the same reason. I give honorable mention to Touchstone and UA sneak attack fighter + Staggering Strike as options a little off the beaten path.

[Karl Aegis]

You're missing out on Starspawn, Willing Deformity, Deformity (Tongue), and Deformity (tall) without either Lords of Madness or Heroes of Horror. I don't leave home without at least half of those on a fighter.

[Metahuman1]

Leap Attack and Battle jump come to mind.

As does Double Strike, that feat form Minitures hand book that let's you AoO with each weapon when two weapon fighting.

Exotic weapons proficiency can be nice if you snag the right weapon, so, honory mention.

[~Corvus~]

Stand Still (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill) from Expanded Psionics Handbook. It doesn't even require other feats as a prereqs, making it cheaper than Imp. Trip if you're feat-starved, AND it can stop un-trippable enemies.

Look at the Little Red Raiding Hood (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1659301) guide, and then the Tome of Battle for Dummies (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1146801). Great melee-OP stuff, and a large amount of time is spent explaining WHY certain feats are good.

Power Attack is also AMAZING with Duskblades as you can get silly amounts of damage with True Strike + attack. This requires, of course, the ability to penalize past your Attack bonus at lower levels, but it's worth mentioning.

[~Corvus~]

Exotic weapons proficiency can be nice if you snag the right weapon, so, honory mention.

I think the only weapon i'd go into Exotic for is the Talenta Sharrash: 1d10 2-hander, 19-20 x3 crit, Slashing, 10' reach and free tripping without feats. Add on spikey gauntlets and you're good to go.

[ShaneMRoth]

Cleave was a popular choice for fighters in a campaign I ran years back.

When ever a Fighter would drop an opponent the entire game group would yell, "CLEAVE!" and the fighter would roll again.

And there was much rejoicing.

[Metahuman1]

I think the only weapon i'd go into Exotic for is the Talenta Sharrash: 1d10 2-hander, 19-20 x3 crit, Slashing, 10' reach and free tripping without feats. Add on spikey gauntlets and you're good to go.

Spiked chain, Kusari-gama and Gnome Quick Razor all say hi.

[~Corvus~]

Spiked chain, Kusari-gama and Gnome Quick Razor all say hi.

But you can get Spiked Chain from being a Swordsage focused on Shadow Hand. Kusari-gama is not nearly as good as the Sharrash, and hi there Gnome quick razor!

[Elandris Kajar]

So, which tricks are best to go for? I know trip is decent, but what other specific tricks are worth having? As in, what feats would you take from 1-20?

[Taelas]

I think the only weapon i'd go into Exotic for is the Talenta Sharrash: 1d10 2-hander, 19-20 x3 crit, Slashing, 10' reach and free tripping without feats. Add on spikey gauntlets and you're good to go.

The greathorn minotaur greathammer is also OK (1d12 2-hander, 19-20/x4 crit, bludgeoning).

[Killer Angel]

But you can get Spiked Chain from being a Swordsage focused on Shadow Hand.

Eh, this starts to be a specific build. Spiked Chain is good almost always.

[jiriku]

So, which tricks are best to go for? I know trip is decent, but what other specific tricks are worth having? As in, what feats would you take from 1-20?

At this point you're basically asking for fighter builds.


The Fighter Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1119336) has a number of build suggestions that showcase what the class is capable of.
Jack B. Quick (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1062806) is a classic straight fighter build. Highly effective.
Little Red Raiding Hood (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2462.0) is all about how to ubercharge.
Cromwell and Vernon (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3809) are builds that make use of fighter levels and rely on fear-based tactics.
A Different Kind of Charger (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=150) demonstrates how to build an effective mounted charger using a fighter base (it really needs Wild Cohort for a sturdy mount, though)

[OldTrees1]

So, which tricks are best to go for? I know trip is decent, but what other specific tricks are worth having? As in, what feats would you take from 1-20?

I consider flight, attacks of opportunities + reach, trip, knockback(bullrush without following), action denial(Three Mountain, Staggering Strike, Imperious Command) to all last 1-20. Action denial does run into some immunities but it is still useful enough the rest of the time.


Now your specific set of books makes this harder.
I would suggest switching to (Fighter Bonus Feat)Rogue[UA] with a 1 level dip in (Sneak Attack)(Thug)Fighter[UA]. This gives you lots of skill points, +1d6 sneak attack, but drops your HD and BAB. All in all it is still a good deal if the combat feats are what draws you to Fighter. Alternatively you could stay a (Thug)Fighter[UA] and start off with 1 level of Rogue. But the first option tends to be better.

Now the feats of note you have access to are:
PHB-
Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip(requires Combat Expertise), Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Spiked Chain)
CW-
Three Mountain(requires Improved Bullrush, and Weapon Focus), Karmic Strike(requires Combat Expertise, and Dodge)
CAd-
Staggering Strike(the reason for the +1d6 Sneak Attack)
BoED-
Ancestral Relic, and Nymph's Kiss(+1 skill point/level is less useful if you went the first route)
LoM-
Starspawn(requires Aberrant Blood, gives flight), Inhuman Reach(requires Aberrant Blood, gives 10ft natural reach and 20ft reach weapon reach)
PHB2-
Robilar's Gambit
MoI-
Shape Soulmeld(if you pick up the aberrant feats I would suggest looking for teleportation, otherwise select flight)

That is 18 feats of note. I think it will take flaws and being a Human to take them all since several of them are not fighter bonus feats.

[StreamOfTheSky]

People keep suggesting feats that aren't on the Fighter bonus list. :smallfrown:


But you can get Spiked Chain from being a Swordsage focused on Shadow Hand. Kusari-gama is not nearly as good as the Sharrash, and hi there Gnome quick razor!

Swordsage gets Weapon Focus with it. He does not by RAW get proficiency, you still have to spend a feat on that, and EWP requires BAB +1, so a 1st level Swordsage build can't even have it.

Kusari-gama is pretty good; are you thinking of the pre-nerf Sharrash? Unlike the awful after-nerf version, that is also a good reason to take EWP. But aside from having reach, it's really not anything like the kusari-gama. Each appeals to different types of builds. One to high Str 2H builds, the other to finesse and/or TWF builds.

[OldTrees1]

People keep suggesting feats that aren't on the Fighter bonus list. :smallfrown:

Your point? From my reading of the thread the question is about "best feats for fighters" not "exclusively best fighter bonus feats".

Or was the frown aimed at WotC failing to expand the fighter bonus feat list enough?

[heavyfuel]

Surprised no-one said Improved Initiative yet. Comboes very well with Drow Fighter and going first might just mean you also get to go last.

[jiriku]

Mmm, I'm not sure how excited I am about Improved Initiative on a fighter. Unless you have a good action denial build or an ubercharger, going first just means you deal damage (which doesn't slow down the opponent) and position yourself to receive a full attack. In a party of AoE blasters, battlefield controllers and buffers, you might even find yourself delaying until after your allies so that you can receive buffs and not lumber into the area where they want to place area spells. Now, if going first means you can charge in, deal a pile of damage, and kill an important enemy before it acts, that's good. But not every fighter can do that, and not every encounter calls for that tactic.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Mmm, I'm not sure how excited I am about Improved Initiative on a fighter. Unless you have a good action denial build or an ubercharger, going first just means you deal damage (which doesn't slow down the opponent) and position yourself to receive a full attack. In a party of AoE blasters, battlefield controllers and buffers, you might even find yourself delaying until after your allies so that you can receive buffs and not lumber into the area where they want to place area spells. Now, if going first means you can charge in, deal a pile of damage, and kill an important enemy before it acts, that's good. But not every fighter can do that, and not every encounter calls for that tactic.

Yeah, without those things, going first means little to a fighter. I'd rather attack 2nd and get a full attack than go first and only hit once. That said, if dueling or you're certain that a foe WILL rush into melee with you, going first is useful. I like to ready an action to attack and 5 ft step out of the way (or reverse that order, pending my reach and the foe's) of the foe's attack. That way I still strike first, ruin his turn, and then get to full attack before he can go again since my initiative is now just before his. Really fun against a charger, then I get all those attacks against a lower AC.

[OldTrees1]

Yeah, without those things, going first means little to a fighter. I'd rather attack 2nd and get a full attack than go first and only hit once. That said, if dueling or you're certain that a foe WILL rush into melee with you, going first is useful. I like to ready an action to attack and 5 ft step out of the way (or reverse that order, pending my reach and the foe's) of the foe's attack. That way I still strike first, ruin his turn, and then get to full attack before he can go again since my initiative is now just before his. Really fun against a charger, then I get all those attacks against a lower AC.

Wait, can you really ready a "attack & 5ft step" as a single readied action?

[heavyfuel]

Wait, can you really ready a "attack & 5ft step" as a single readied action?

According to Rules Compendium, no. According to the PHB, yes. So you technically can, but it's safer to ask your DM.

Yes, you can. See posts below.

[Metahuman1]

People keep suggesting feats that aren't on the Fighter bonus list. :smallfrown:



Swordsage gets Weapon Focus with it. He does not by RAW get proficiency, you still have to spend a feat on that, and EWP requires BAB +1, so a 1st level Swordsage build can't even have it.

Kusari-gama is pretty good; are you thinking of the pre-nerf Sharrash? Unlike the awful after-nerf version, that is also a good reason to take EWP. But aside from having reach, it's really not anything like the kusari-gama. Each appeals to different types of builds. One to high Str 2H builds, the other to finesse and/or TWF builds.

Or to higher defense lock down builds. (Might be TWF, or it might be a Crusader using a Tower Shield in one hand and the Kusarigama + Knock Down + Improved Trip + maybe Stone Power in the other. )

[StreamOfTheSky]

Wait, can you really ready a "attack & 5ft step" as a single readied action?

It's one of those little-known gems hidden in the rules: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialInitiativeActions.htm#ready


Readying an Action

You can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, any time before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.

It's a really good rule, and makes readying far more useful. According to heavy, the Rules Compendium changed that. But he quoted sections about 5 ft steps, not Readied Actions, so I'm not sure it actually did change the rule. It's possible...RC made a lot of really stupid rules changes, which is why it's one of only a few books I outright ban 100% from my game. Since literally any sentence in it falls into one of two categories: 1) Already covered in core or elsewhere, why am I paying for this information again? or 2) Unequivocally makes the game worse than it was before. Pretty amazing, but I've never seen a single rule change from RC that I liked. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but RC can't even measure up to that standard.

[heavyfuel]

You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.

Huh, I stand corrected... Turns out RC also has this rule, making the book itself contradictory. Anyway, the only reason I use the book is that it's generally easier to find information in it. Also, swift action wands.

[Optimator]

The best feats have mostly been mentioned.

I believe the best Fighter feats are the feats used to qualify for your prestige class.

[Taelas]

Huh, I stand corrected... Turns out RC also has this rule, making the book itself contradictory. Anyway, the only reason I use the book is that it's generally easier to find information in it. Also, swift action wands.

How is there a contradiction? You can only take 5-foot steps during your turn. A readied action moves your turn. Since the "Readying an Action" section makes it clear you can take a 5-foot step as part of a readied action, there is no conflict with any rule that I know of.

[heavyfuel]

How is there a contradiction? You can only take 5-foot steps during your turn. A readied action moves your turn. Since the "Readying an Action" section makes it clear you can take a 5-foot step as part of a readied action, there is no conflict with any rule that I know of.

In the 5-ft step section of RC, it says you can only take one during your turn. In the Readied actions section, it says taking a readied action happens outside your turn. So you couldn't take a 5ft step. However, as I posted above, there's a specific rule that says you can take a 5ft step during your readied action.

A case of specific beating general? Sure. Still, the book is a bit weird with its placement of thee rules

[StreamOfTheSky]

I've always considered the time when your readied action happens to be part of your turn. Maybe that's not RAW, but...the standard action is more than half of a person's turn, and that's what's being delayed. Also, the 5 ft step rules say it can be used during another action, not just before or after, so I don't see the contradiction anyway.

[Seharvepernfan]

Close-Quarters Combat from CW. Gives you an AoO against anything trying to Improved Grapple you, and you get your damage as a bonus against it's grapple check.

I like quick draw on fighters who are using two-handed weapons, it lets you make use of your iterative attacks even if you drop all the enemies within melee range. Combine it with a bola/net/whip.

Say what you will about whirlwind attack, but hitting 72 squares of enemies with an enlarged fighter using a spiked chain at your maximum attack bonus is nothing to sneeze at.