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View Full Version : Need someone to poke holes in this culture I created



Gnoman
2015-06-11, 09:58 PM
I recently added an NPC into my campaign to serve as the party's cleric (nobody wanted to play one, but the lack of healing was becoming a problem), and I worked her into the storyline by making her be from an exotic culture from a mostly unknown land that had been teleported by another of the strange occurrences that have been happening. I'd like that culture to be plausible, and want feedback on it as it currently stands.

Maria cor Deslana hails from the large city-state of Deslana on a very large island far to the east of Cartrefuol, the product of a colony expedition sent shortly before the Three Emperor's War. Due to the chaos of the war, the Deslana expedition, along with a great many others, was completely forgotten and the ships were believed lost. Due to the very warm climate. the people of Deslania gradually ceased the use of clothing, favoring jewlery body paint, and the occasional tattoo for most of the social purposes filled by garments in other climates. This proved a surprising boon in later years, when a trading ship rediscovered the colony about two hundred and sixty years before the Second Titan War broke out, as the islanders had elevated the craft of jewlerymaking to a very high art, and their disdain for clothes meant that the native silkworm population had been completely ignored. Once the appetite of Aprilian and Cinnabar traders for silk thread became known, this provided a very lucrative export product, ironically for the production of fine clothes for the nobility. Before too long, a port had been built on the island, servicing as many as three trading vessels a month.

Unfortunately, there was a darker side to this trade. Tales of the exotic dark-skinned natives, greatly exaggerated in the telling, led to a growing fascination for them in the civilized lands. Meanwhile, a failed coup against the Doge had caused a few families to be attained and imprisoned, and the sudden infusion of material wealth initially restricted to a small number of merchant houses led to a great deal of robbery and related crimes, resulting in even more prisoners. Once, these prisoners would simply have been beaten, executed, or exiled (depending on their exact crimes), but a canny Cinnabar merchant made a deal with the Doge, and the prisoners were clapped in chains and sent off in Cinnabar's ships for the slave markets in exchange for a great deal of gold and spices. This institution of slavery, a concept previously unknown to Deslanians, would have far-reaching effects. In a generation's time, the once-soft system of social status had hardened into a strict caste system, and those in the lowest castes had few rights, and it was not merely custom but law that those in this caste could become property of any who bothered to grab them. As these castes were marked only by a lack of jewlery and body paint, anyone that fell on hard economic times was liable to become property of a rival, or sold across the sea. By the time of the Second Titan War, this was accepted as "the way things had always been".

Due to the War, the traders stopped coming, and about seventy years afterwards, the first Deslanan ships were built, seeking the ports across the sea where the wealth had once flowed from. Obstensibly to restore the Golden Age of prosperity, the real purpose was to restore the slave trade - the caste system had become so ingrained that the number of people made into slaves did not decrease, but none were now sent away, leading to a dangerously large slave population.

Maria cor Deslana is in the second generation of these new traders, although as her family's contacts were with Aprilia instead of Cinnabar her ships did not carry slaves. Her house was a small concern, with only one ship. Her ship was destroyed in a major storm, which she survived only by the chance activation of a mysterious magical artifact that whisked her and some of the ship's wreckage deep into Markavia, where she nearly froze to death before being rescued by a local barbarian tribe. Having bartered away the last of her possessions for food and shelter, Maria is unable to return home, as she would inevitably sink to the lowest caste. Her only recourse was to take the weapon and armor the barbarians gifted her with and join an adventuring party with her divine magic.

Xuc Xac
2015-06-12, 12:05 AM
That's a really long time. After 260 years of making jewelry and trading for clothes, they never thought about changing their fashions? I see your location is Toledo, Ohio. Are you still wearing the tricorn hats that were popular in 1755?

And the wealthy elite waited 70 years before building a ship to re-establish contact with the source of their wealth? They went from 3 ships a month to zero and did nothing until the grandchildren or even great-grandchildren of the last person to get paid decided to see why the money stopped coming in?

Gnoman
2015-06-12, 12:57 AM
That's a really long time. After 260 years of making jewelry and trading for clothes, they never thought about changing their fashions? I see your location is Toledo, Ohio. Are you still wearing the tricorn hats that were popular in 1755?

Think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here. Their primary exports are finished jewelry, silk thread (not cloth), and each other. They do not wear or desire clothes ( due to living in a very hot, very humid jungle region) except for the traders on ships who are exposed to inclement weather. They import gold, gemstones, luxury goods (fine tapestries, high-end utensils, exotic food, etc.), books, dyes for a greater variety of body paint colors, and other such things. The exact details of fashion do change, but those aren't particularly important.



And the wealthy elite waited 70 years before building a ship to re-establish contact with the source of their wealth? They went from 3 ships a month to zero and did nothing until the grandchildren or even great-grandchildren of the last person to get paid decided to see why the money stopped coming in?

They didn't wait 70 years before building a ship. It took 70 years (actually closer to sixty, they had some idea that the war was going on, and it took awhile before the "I don't think they're coming back" movement really took hold) before they managed to get working designs into service, because building something from memories of "I think it looked like this" is very difficult, and they would have had to invent the sciences of navigation and such from scratch.

jqavins
2015-06-16, 12:10 PM
That's a really long time. After 260 years...Think there's a bit of a misunderstanding here... They do not wear or desire clothes (due to living in a very hot, very humid jungle region) except for the traders on ships who are exposed to inclement weather.
I'm not so sure there was a misunderstanding. It would be normal and even expected for some people, meeting and trading with the clothed outsiders, to experiment with imitating them, i.e. to try out clothes. Clothing can be beneficial in hot weather as protection from the sun. Basically, even nudity is a fashion and subject to change in such a long period.

There's a very strong tendency among gaming world designers and published authors alike to underestimate the rate at which societies change. Fantasy epics that talk about a culture that has been unchanged for 1000 years are pretty common, but can anyone point to a single culture in the history of Earth that has gone unchanged for 1000 years? Remember, the entire history of civilization - from the first permanent village to the present day - is only 7000 years. So even 260 years is an awfully long time to remain static.


Maria is unable to return home, as she would inevitably sink to the lowest caste. Her only recourse was to take the weapon and armor the barbarians gifted her with and join an adventuring party with her divine magic.
OK, this is going beyond critiquing the culture, so ignore it if you like. I don't see why joining an adventuring party was her only choice. Sure, she couldn't go home, and yes that means she has to make a living where she is. But there are plenty of ways to do that other than going out adventuring. She's from a trading family; why not "trade" in spell casting services? Or stay with the friendly barbarians and adopt their lifestyle? Or take up prostitution? And I'm sure there are plenty of other options open to her; figuring out why she chose adventuring could do a lot to enhance her as a deep and interesting character.

VoxRationis
2015-06-16, 02:18 PM
Wait, so the people of Deslana are descended from a lost fleet but are "exotic" in appearance? Did they interbreed with a native population during the period of isolation? If not, their places of origin shouldn't consider them especially unusual-looking.

Yora
2015-06-16, 04:38 PM
There's a very strong tendency among gaming world designers and published authors alike to underestimate the rate at which societies change. Fantasy epics that talk about a culture that has been unchanged for 1000 years are pretty common, but can anyone point to a single culture in the history of Earth that has gone unchanged for 1000 years? Remember, the entire history of civilization - from the first permanent village to the present day - is only 7000 years. So even 260 years is an awfully long time to remain static.
More like 10,000. (Can't have agriculture without being settled.) And it's also important to remember that the last 260 years were the fastest changing in all of human history ever.
Things change all the time, but the difference between 600 and 860 wouldn't look very substential to us, unless we know quite well what we're looking for. Changes in "fashion" are constant, but often very subtle unless you're living through it. Drastic changes are often the result of new technologies, and those show up quite rarely during most of human history.

Gnoman
2015-06-16, 11:45 PM
Wait, so the people of Deslana are descended from a lost fleet but are "exotic" in appearance? Did they interbreed with a native population during the period of isolation? If not, their places of origin shouldn't consider them especially unusual-looking.

The colony ship was sent a very long time ago - on the order of several thousand years (this world has had several semi-apocalyptic magical wars over the centuries, which have the effect of "resetting" a great deal of the technology curve - meanwhile the colonists were mostly rustic farmer types that were brilliant at keeping tools working and making new tools, but didn't have much in the way of scientific or magical knowledge - that would have been the second or third colonization wave that was never sent because the empire erupted into a fifty-year civil war) and are in an environment very different from what they came from (the climate of the region they're from is quite a bit like Scotland, while the island on which Deslana sits is a hot jungle like Vietnam - over time they took on an Asian look, possibly aided by divine intervention.

My model (or should I say inspiration, as it's not an exact copy) for this society was the several cultures in the Pacific that were essentially destroyed by trade with Europeans, mixed with a dose of India which managed to keep much more of the native culture intact while assimilating quite a bit from the Europeans.




Regarding why Maria became an adventurer:

Part of what I did not get across (in no small part because my initial post is the public backstory presented to my players) is that she hasn't merely lost everything she owned.

Much of her cargo was margined - her family firm owned only a quarter share in it, with the balance being owned by a large number of other parties much like we buy stocks today, leaving her massively in debt on which she can only default unless she manages to put together a vast sum of money. Further, her family's possession of a ship gave them a lot of status, and that status made them a lot of enemies among rival traders that were cheated out of shares of lucrative overland cargos and other such contracts - and the now-long-accepted Deslanan custom of enslaving the poor makes it something of a time-honored tradition to shatter a weak rival's supports in order to not only eliminate them from competition but secure a nice profit by trading them. By now, she knows (not because she's got any special message or such, it's just The Way Things Work) that every single share of her debt is now in the hands of her bitterest enemies, and they'll have put a modest price on her head. She not only has to earn enough to clear the debt as quickly as possible, but there is a very real danger that other Deslanan ships will carry word of the bounty and hire local contractors to bring her in.

jqavins
2015-06-17, 12:12 PM
More like 10,000.
I stand corrected.


And it's also important to remember that the last 260 years were the fastest changing in all of human history ever.
Things change all the time, but the difference between 600 and 860 wouldn't look very substential to us, unless we know quite well what we're looking for. Changes in "fashion" are constant, but often very subtle unless you're living through it. Drastic changes are often the result of new technologies, and those show up quite rarely during most of human history.
But the people living in that time do know quite well what they're looking for. If people from 600 and 860 were to switch places, they would both see that things had changes quite a bit.

Here are political maps from 340, 600, 860, and 1120 (260 year increments.)

340: http://geacron.com/en/?v=m&lang=en&z=3&x=65.566406599522&y=41.635152286401&nd=-1&d=&di=340&tm=p&ct=0&ly=yyyyyyy&fi=-500&ff=1500&sp=2&e=0&rp=0&re=0&nv=2
600: http://geacron.com/en/?v=m&lang=en&z=3&x=65.566406599522&y=41.635152286401&nd=-1&d=&di=600&tm=p&ct=0&ly=yyyyyyy&fi=-500&ff=1500&sp=2&e=0&rp=0&re=0&nv=2
860: http://geacron.com/en/?v=m&lang=en&z=3&x=65.566406599522&y=41.635152286401&nd=-1&d=&di=860&tm=p&ct=0&ly=yyyyyyy&fi=-500&ff=1500&sp=2&e=0&rp=0&re=0&nv=2
1120: http://geacron.com/en/?v=m&lang=en&z=3&x=65.566406599522&y=41.635152286401&nd=-1&d=&di=1120&tm=p&ct=0&ly=yyyyyyy&fi=-500&ff=1500&sp=2&e=0&rp=0&re=0&nv=2


Here are a few choice technological developments:

340 - 600: Cotton gin (India), Heavy plough invented (eastern Europe), Breast strap horse harness (Europe), Silk weaving (Eastern Europe, earlier in China obviously), Stirrup (Mongolia, later Byzantium)
600 - 860: Wood block printing (China), Sugar refining (India), Vertical axis windmill (Persia), Heavy plough introduced (western and northern Europe), Horse collar (9th century Europe), Horse shoes (9th century Europe, though possibly a re-intrtoduction from Romans and Celts), Grindstones (Europe), Soap (9th century, Europe), Stirrup (Europe)
860 - 1120: Movable type using fired clay (China), Gunpowder (China), Navigation by compass (China), Hops (Europe), Universities (Europe, possibly earlier elsewhere), Silk weaving (western Europe), Arched saddle (Europe), Spurs (Europe)
Rest of the 12th century: Wine press (Europe), Artesian wells (1126, France), Chimneys (Europe), Blast furnace (Europe, earlier in other places), Dry compass (Europe, earlier elsewhere), Stern mounted ship's rudder (Europe), Liquor (Europe, earlier elsewhere), Glass mirrors (Europe), Rat traps (Europe)

This list is cribbed from Wikipedia with minimal effort.

I'm sure that there have to have been similar changes in attitudes, language, fashion, behavioral norms, etc. While it's true that change has come faster in the last 260 years than any such period before, one mustn't think that any society or culture has remained stagnant over such a period.